2004 (xbox) My review
Thu Oct 16, 2003 11:50 pm
Hey all, I used to hang around here back in the old days (99-01 or so). I wanted to post a quick review of this game.
I have played 6 games now, all with Raptors, 4 on 8 min quarters, 2 with 10 minute quarters. I would say that 10 minute quarters gives you accurate stats, but even 12 wouldn't be out of line, just a bit high scoring. I'm getting about 85-95 scores at 10 minutes but thats on Starter difficulty as I get used to the game.
One thought that kept hitting me as I played this game was, "Man, we used to want that feature back in the day on NLSC". If you have been following the threads here, and the wishlists you will find it kinda cool how over the years they have slowly implemented many of the things we have been wanting for so long. For example, loose balls and diving on the court for them.
Okay...
The Good:
Great feel to the game. The players really feel like they have some weight, at least way more than in the past. Much less of a basketball-on-ice feeling. Movement, key congestion etc... all really feel like real basketball. If you are following your man through the key it no longer feels like you are getting hung up on a big mass of pixels in the key, but that you are fighting through traffic and screens.
The Little Things: The diving to the floor, the new inbounds system that ensures you get the man you want to have the ball taking the shot at the end of the game. The working, nice power dribble. The layup animations...all very nice. Everyone will find things they think are really neat in this game.
The Ratings: I really like the way my team feels. My stars play like stars, my medium players very clearly have thier strengths and weaknesses, just like in real life. You can have players who play their role well and even if they aren't scorers they can actually hit a shot if left open. Stars, Starters and Scrubs, it all feels right this time around, and I love that.
The Post Play: Really good post play. Fantastic really. You will get double teamed if you have a good player down there, and when you do there is a very realistic element of what to do next. If you swing it back out to the feeder quickly, you can repost. If you hold on to it, the defence gets better position and your chances of not getting it stolen or not getting a pass picked off goes down the longer you have it. If you drive into the doubleteam you can still score, but it becomes difficult and you are likely to have it stripped or just have bad position on the shot. This is another really nice thing...position matters. I have hit the bottom of the rim about 25 times, and each time I knew it was my own fault. I had tried to shoot either into a double team or without getting decent position. You have to work your way into the right places to get the best shots much more than in the past in any game. The Prohop certainly helps with this, but there is skill to using it as well, it isn't just a 'hit hop button/dunk at will' thing.
The Cons:
The dribble position: The protected dribble goes to far. As you play you learn how to minimize it, and it really isn't that bad because as I mentioned, positioning has a much more realistic feeling in this game. The fact is in real life you won't be facing one direction and just whip a pass 20 feet in the other direction without thinking about it. You have to turn, find the man and hit him. Thats what this game is like. It isn't perfect, but its not as bad as it seems the first few games you play.
The Franchise mode doesn't seem to be any different at all. I only quickly checked it out but it seems nearly unchanged regarding the draft etc... although the training camp feature is very nice.
Framerate: On my xbox version there are certainly some issues with fps, which is a pisser.
Collisions: Overall, the detection is good but there is a bit to much 'bouncing off of other players' when you have the ball. The perfect defencive detection is still not found.
Overall: A very fun game, and I really say that sincerely. With most basketball games in the past, I have found I had the most fun with team management and playing franchise. I would enjoy building up a team, and once I had them the way I liked I would play through a shortened playoffs with them. To be honest I just found that while I love basketball games (I love video games and playing basketball, so makes sense) I just didn't have a whole lot of fun with the actual gameplay, there were always just to many glitches. Live 2003 was just a bit to silly, while 2K3 was just plain boring after a while (and thats from a sim lover). This game is damn fun. (period) I'm not even interested in simming through any games, I'm having way to much fun playing 10min quarter games. I'm not finding myself playing for stats at all which I often did just to make it more fun (get the pg 15 assists etc...). That just isnt' needed in this game, the challenge is there and the gameplay is fantastic.
Thats it, I'm not exactly a Live fanboy (not after the great Live 2002 PC debacle) but I'm a basketball fanboy, and this game is a real keeper.
Oh, and Hi Yohance, I can't believe you are admining all these forums now
I remember when you used to cause shit on the old boards
Re: Court size and rim size...I play in centre court, zoomed all the way out and imo the court and rim are perfect. If you look at a player standing under the rim from the side it looks just right. I think maybe we are just used to playing games where it feels like every player has a 45 inch vertical at least. It's just more realistic imo.
I have played 6 games now, all with Raptors, 4 on 8 min quarters, 2 with 10 minute quarters. I would say that 10 minute quarters gives you accurate stats, but even 12 wouldn't be out of line, just a bit high scoring. I'm getting about 85-95 scores at 10 minutes but thats on Starter difficulty as I get used to the game.
One thought that kept hitting me as I played this game was, "Man, we used to want that feature back in the day on NLSC". If you have been following the threads here, and the wishlists you will find it kinda cool how over the years they have slowly implemented many of the things we have been wanting for so long. For example, loose balls and diving on the court for them.
Okay...
The Good:
Great feel to the game. The players really feel like they have some weight, at least way more than in the past. Much less of a basketball-on-ice feeling. Movement, key congestion etc... all really feel like real basketball. If you are following your man through the key it no longer feels like you are getting hung up on a big mass of pixels in the key, but that you are fighting through traffic and screens.
The Little Things: The diving to the floor, the new inbounds system that ensures you get the man you want to have the ball taking the shot at the end of the game. The working, nice power dribble. The layup animations...all very nice. Everyone will find things they think are really neat in this game.
The Ratings: I really like the way my team feels. My stars play like stars, my medium players very clearly have thier strengths and weaknesses, just like in real life. You can have players who play their role well and even if they aren't scorers they can actually hit a shot if left open. Stars, Starters and Scrubs, it all feels right this time around, and I love that.
The Post Play: Really good post play. Fantastic really. You will get double teamed if you have a good player down there, and when you do there is a very realistic element of what to do next. If you swing it back out to the feeder quickly, you can repost. If you hold on to it, the defence gets better position and your chances of not getting it stolen or not getting a pass picked off goes down the longer you have it. If you drive into the doubleteam you can still score, but it becomes difficult and you are likely to have it stripped or just have bad position on the shot. This is another really nice thing...position matters. I have hit the bottom of the rim about 25 times, and each time I knew it was my own fault. I had tried to shoot either into a double team or without getting decent position. You have to work your way into the right places to get the best shots much more than in the past in any game. The Prohop certainly helps with this, but there is skill to using it as well, it isn't just a 'hit hop button/dunk at will' thing.
The Cons:
The dribble position: The protected dribble goes to far. As you play you learn how to minimize it, and it really isn't that bad because as I mentioned, positioning has a much more realistic feeling in this game. The fact is in real life you won't be facing one direction and just whip a pass 20 feet in the other direction without thinking about it. You have to turn, find the man and hit him. Thats what this game is like. It isn't perfect, but its not as bad as it seems the first few games you play.
The Franchise mode doesn't seem to be any different at all. I only quickly checked it out but it seems nearly unchanged regarding the draft etc... although the training camp feature is very nice.
Framerate: On my xbox version there are certainly some issues with fps, which is a pisser.
Collisions: Overall, the detection is good but there is a bit to much 'bouncing off of other players' when you have the ball. The perfect defencive detection is still not found.
Overall: A very fun game, and I really say that sincerely. With most basketball games in the past, I have found I had the most fun with team management and playing franchise. I would enjoy building up a team, and once I had them the way I liked I would play through a shortened playoffs with them. To be honest I just found that while I love basketball games (I love video games and playing basketball, so makes sense) I just didn't have a whole lot of fun with the actual gameplay, there were always just to many glitches. Live 2003 was just a bit to silly, while 2K3 was just plain boring after a while (and thats from a sim lover). This game is damn fun. (period) I'm not even interested in simming through any games, I'm having way to much fun playing 10min quarter games. I'm not finding myself playing for stats at all which I often did just to make it more fun (get the pg 15 assists etc...). That just isnt' needed in this game, the challenge is there and the gameplay is fantastic.
Thats it, I'm not exactly a Live fanboy (not after the great Live 2002 PC debacle) but I'm a basketball fanboy, and this game is a real keeper.
Oh, and Hi Yohance, I can't believe you are admining all these forums now
I remember when you used to cause shit on the old boards
Re: Court size and rim size...I play in centre court, zoomed all the way out and imo the court and rim are perfect. If you look at a player standing under the rim from the side it looks just right. I think maybe we are just used to playing games where it feels like every player has a 45 inch vertical at least. It's just more realistic imo.
Fri Oct 17, 2003 12:11 am
Superchunk,
Great review. Very detailed. I haven't bought Live 04 yet but I will be, and this review makes me want it just that little bit more. Now, a question:
What is legend Michael Jordan's FG rating? And what is Kobe's and McGrady's FG rating?
Great review. Very detailed. I haven't bought Live 04 yet but I will be, and this review makes me want it just that little bit more. Now, a question:
What is legend Michael Jordan's FG rating? And what is Kobe's and McGrady's FG rating?
Fri Oct 17, 2003 12:26 am
I wanted to mention that the gamecube version was delayed by a day where i live, so naturally I sold my gamecube, bought an xbox and bought the game I suppose I was a little excited to get it.
I'll check those ratings for you bro once I'm done the game I'm currently in.
I suppose I was a little excited to get it.
I'll check those ratings for you bro once I'm done the game I'm currently in.
Fri Oct 17, 2003 2:07 am
How are the assists stats. Are they like 2003, where if you tried you could easily get 30+assists.
Fri Oct 17, 2003 2:38 am
great review man. i am a realism-lover too and all you said make me think that i will be having a lot of fun playing this game. or as madden would say it: we got definately one heck of a game coming.
feel free to post more gameplay impressions. i really want to know how it feels to play the game.
feel free to post more gameplay impressions. i really want to know how it feels to play the game.
Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:03 pm
Great review mate.
There have been a lot of negatives about the game lately, it was nice to be reminded of how nice the gameplay will be.
Thanks.
And if you are discovering new things about the game, good or bad, post again.
There have been a lot of negatives about the game lately, it was nice to be reminded of how nice the gameplay will be.
Thanks.
And if you are discovering new things about the game, good or bad, post again.
Fri Oct 17, 2003 11:56 pm
Well, I have played a few more games now (I'm 5-4 in my dynasty on 10 min quarters already I'm staying up to late) and most of my initial impressions stayed true. I won several in a row easily so I bumped up from Starter to Allstar and the difficulty level seemed to really go up, so I think there is a considerable difference.
I found that by my 8th game or so I had really figured out what I wanted to do with the game and how to best play it, and I have to say it only gets better the more you play it. Several of my initial annoyances were things that were being caused by my own gameplay, and if I found that when I played the game 'better' the game played better, if you get my drift.
Court sense, positioning and timing are all very important in this game. Things like fast breaking are not easy but realistically can be done if using the right players, passing at the right times etc... Running through the plays you have called increase your chances for scoring considerably.
Still loving it, looking forward to 2K4 coming out to compare that game.
I'm staying up to late) and most of my initial impressions stayed true. I won several in a row easily so I bumped up from Starter to Allstar and the difficulty level seemed to really go up, so I think there is a considerable difference.
I found that by my 8th game or so I had really figured out what I wanted to do with the game and how to best play it, and I have to say it only gets better the more you play it. Several of my initial annoyances were things that were being caused by my own gameplay, and if I found that when I played the game 'better' the game played better, if you get my drift.
Court sense, positioning and timing are all very important in this game. Things like fast breaking are not easy but realistically can be done if using the right players, passing at the right times etc... Running through the plays you have called increase your chances for scoring considerably.
Still loving it, looking forward to 2K4 coming out to compare that game.