Player Suspensions???

[Krisman4]

Don't you think player suspensions would be a good idea? They should make it so if you get too many flagrant fouls or technicals, you get suspended. Or when you go into create-a-player and when you pick the laid back, balanced or hyped button, that should effect not only their facial expressions but their behavior too. On the Live games everyone acts the same. There haven't been any hard noses.

[Andrew]

Suspensions are not a thing to be proud of. I'd hope to see greater chance of players missing games to injury than suspensions. Besides, it isn't likely we'll have unsportsmanlike technicals, so we won't have any suspensions from those.

It would add some realism if you were suspended for too many flagrant foul points (though they'd probably all be Flagrant Type 1 fouls in NBA Live) - of course, flagrant fouls would have to be more common/easily performed for such restrictions to actually mean something.

But that's the only kind of suspension that should be in the game. No suspensions for drug violations (would the NBA ever approve of that anyway?), no suspensions for fighting or punching the referee, cursing at a referee, parking your car in front of the opponent's team bus or kicking a cameraman - there's some things that have at times "been in the game" that do not need to be "in the game".

I don't think facial expression should reflect behaviour. It's just a way of customising a player's appearance - I'd rather see seperate behaviour attributes. That way, your player could appear laid back, but not necessarily play that way.

[Colin]

don't forget headbutting a cameraman

[Andrew]

If you're talking about Rodman, he headbutted a referee, not a cameraman (yes, even better ).

[Colin]

he headbutted a cameraman too didn't he?

[Andrew]

Not as far as I'm aware. He kicked a camerman in the groin in 96/97 and in 95/96 he headbutted a referee. Guess he figured that was enough.

[Metsis]

Didn't Sprewell head butt someone too???

And yes, EA will never go for unsportmanship kind of things in the game or NBA will not tolerate it. It took a long time to get Fights into NHL games and they were long limited to a single fight in a game.

But there should be someway to give out technicals and flagrant fouls... Just because it happens quite often. There aren't many games that don't have any technicals called. There should be someway...

But don't count on the NBA to allow this in this years release. It would have to implemented properly to have the OK from NBA.

[Andrew]

Didn't Sprewell head butt someone too???

He choked P.J. Carelisimo back in the 1997/98 season, but I can't remember him headbutting anyone.

But there should be someway to give out technicals and flagrant fouls... Just because it happens quite often. There aren't many games that don't have any technicals called. There should be someway...

As much as I'm not really for technicals in the game, I wouldn't mind too much if they were implemented properly (ie the human player has control over the arguing). I can do without them, but it's not worth boycotting the game over.

[EGarrett]

Technicals couldn't and shouldn't be implemented...what control would you have over it? It would just be another way for the game to annoy people...randomly kicking their players out of games for things the person playing has nothing to do with...

If it has to do with arguing then no one would argue...unless you want to implement biased refereeing which the NBA wouldn't okay in a million years...

[Andrew]

The basic suggestion is that you could tap a button argue with the referee, which would either result in getting a makeup call or a technical. As I said in the other thread, why you would want to get your player ejected is beyond me. As you said, EA won't put biased officiating in the game.

There's certain elements of the game that won't translate well to elements of the game. If techs are ever included, hopefully they'll be implemented in a way that they can be avoided by players who don't want that much detail.

[Metsis]

I've posted this before, but I'll say it again... There should be a button for arguing your point with the ref! For example an AI guy pushes you over the sideline with the ball and there's no foul call. Then you could argue the call and maybe next time the ref would call a foul (the good result) or he'd just slap a technical on you or no effect what so ever.

A ref never changes a call unless another ref sees the situation differently and has a better view. That's just basic basket ball, the refs are human so they make mistakes.

Each time you argue a call would effect the ref somehow, so if you keep on arguing too much, well the refs "technical" meter would go up and you'd get slapped more technicals for it. And there would be no "random" technicals for other then those really nasty fouls... So it would not piss anyone off and it would be "clean" enough for the NBA to agree on.

It would be a nice "in play" mini game added to the gameplay that could effect the play...

[nmje2k1]

actually that could work ... it's kinda like the challenge call option in madden only that here you would get a tech if you arguing for no reason

[Andrew]

It could indeed work, and it would be the best way to implement technicals, since it would be up to you to actually pick up the tech, as opposed to it simply being random.

Though if techs were random, it would make for some pretty funny situations. I can just imagine the commentary:

"Tim Duncan really needs to settle down!"
"This is a guy who picks up a lot of technicals, and it hurts his team."
"He's gotta work on controlling his anger out there."

[Metsis]

No randoms, or randoms according to a hidden stat. Artest would get technicals from every now and then and Duncan would maybe see one in his career.

But I still think that there should be no randoms, it could just make or brake a game at too random. So people who wouldn't like to play this "extra" game wouldn't suffer from it either. It would be only fair...

And I think this kind of extra game could bring more life into the live experience and thus making it feel more real. Arguing with a ref is a thing that happens every game and thus it shouldn't be overlooked.

If they still added real refs and make up some stats for them concerning this griping, well you could learn that some refs don't take any of that "b*tching" and slap you with techs the first time you open your mouth and others hear you out. In 2001 where the refs were there, well they had different looks and skin colors. All you need is a name and appearance and some ratings according to the reffing. There could be stats like "patience" (to see how long he'll look at your face before slapping your hand) and "vision" (a stat that would be for making calls, yes the refs sometimes make bad calls) etc...

[Andrew]

But I still think that there should be no randoms, it could just make or brake a game at too random. So people who wouldn't like to play this "extra" game wouldn't suffer from it either. It would be only fair...

That's how I feel too. If it's up to the user to argue, then people who don't want to argue won't find their players arguing and picking up technicals.

I don't think the NBA would ever allow real names to be used if the referees actually had ratings and personalities - if they even allowed referee ratings in the first place. Still, that's where patches would come in handy, if referees had personalities and ratings under assumed names.

[Metsis]

I don't think the NBA would ever allow real names to be used if the referees actually had ratings and personalities - if they even allowed referee ratings in the first place. Still, that's where patches would come in handy, if referees had personalities and ratings under assumed names.

They have stats on the refs... They have stats for everything. Not everyone get to referee a game of NBA! They look out for things they do aswell. And some stats could be asked from different coaches around the league.

Now-a-days the refs don't have their real names out, but they could add the real personalities to the refs with fake names.

This would really be a good addition to the game.

[Ceasar121]

That idea is great! The way the foul sliders are now could be used, just with one set for each team. depending on your arguing, home court, and type of game, the sliders could go down or up, for offensive or defnsive fouls,ie jump shooting team like Dallas don't go to the line alot, teams like LA and San Antonio take many free throws because they are aggresive and go to the basket. The argue button could cause this meter to go up or down depending. This would be a great feature!

[Colin]

Another idea I though of is being able to completely turn techs off should they be included, so those people who think it would be showing the bad side of basketball (*cough*Andrew*cough*:lol:) could turn them off. No, another slider for it. Also the problem EA seems to have with everything random is either that
a) It's way too common, as in it happens every game a couple of times, as opposed to once every 2-3 games
b) It NEVER happens, maybe once every 300 (*cough*injuries*cough*) games

[Andrew]

Another idea I though of is being able to completely turn techs off should they be included, so those people who think it would be showing the bad side of basketball (*cough*Andrew*cough*:lol:) could turn them off. No, another slider for it. Also the problem EA seems to have with everything random is either that
a) It's way too common, as in it happens every game a couple of times, as opposed to once every 2-3 games
b) It NEVER happens, maybe once every 300 (*cough*injuries*cough*) games

If they put techs in the game, chances are I would leave them on. Perhaps once or twice, I'd argue with the referees, just so I could experience getting T'd up. I just don't think techs are absolutely necessary for realism (over more injuries for example), and that they're not a part of the game to be celebrated.

I do draw the line at fights though - they aren't common enough to warrant being put into a basketball video game, and usually fights give the NBA a black eye (bad pun fully intended).

Again, if techs are in the game, let us control them. As you said Colin, when we entrust something to being random, it won't happen at a desirable frequency.

They have stats on the refs... They have stats for everything. Not everyone get to referee a game of NBA! They look out for things they do aswell. And some stats could be asked from different coaches around the league.

I know, of course they have facts and figures on referees - there would be no reason to evaluate referees if they didn't. But I doubt the NBA would approve of referee ratings and behaviour in NBA Live - at least not with real names.

So we wouldn't be saying "Damn it, we've got Steve Javie again!" Rather, we'd be saying "Damn it, we've got Generic Referee #47 again!"

[Metsis]

I think the refs should have some sort of names. And some statistics should be shown from their games too. Like free throws per game, fouls per game, tehnicals per game etc. All sorts of things that you could have something to relate to, when talking about the refs.

Like maybe a ref gives up tons of free throws, then you propably should avoid shot blocking as it resolves in fouls, or that a ref's a bit whistle-happy -> You get lot's of fouls. And maybe they should introduce the ref at the start of the game along with his stats so you wouldn't have to remember names...

But alas, these again are the cool things we might see in the future...

[Andrew]

Of course, it would be much better for presentation if the referees had names. I just don't think the NBA would be too keen to allow the use of real referees' names. After all, that would be admitting that some referees show bias and/or aren't as professional in their work.

[Metsis]

You got that being biased thing right on the money and they shouldn't implement that.

But there are refs that let you play a little harder and then there are refs that don't take kindly to all that heavy contact... There are many ways to calling the game. Without compromising himself.

A ref sees things from only his point of view and cannot always call them right and that is what I'm talking about here... The game is just so fast that sometimes they make a bad call and that's the time to push "chat with ref" button. To maybe get the ref to see it differently next time around and making the right call. This is what really happens in bb games every now and then.

Some refs are biased though no matter how neutral they'd have to be... Or sometimes it just feels like that.

[Andrew]

No question, there's plenty of biased referees in the world, in all sports, at all levels. The NBA would probably elect to project the opposite image though, leaving the officiating in NBA Live unusually (one might even say unrealistically) fair.

I'm more for your idea, referees that have different ideas about the amount of contact, rather than flat out bias. Would the NBA allow that? Perhaps they would, though with fake names for the referees. Giving the referees a personality and a fake name (hey, it would be in DBF files, it could be patched along with the referee's appearance) wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing for the NBA, so you never know. Probably not in Live 2004, but maybe further down the track.

[nmje2k1]

i like your idea about the different calling styles but i think it would be hard to implement it properly as there is only a limited amount of contact in a computer game.
you only touch your opponent while posting, or while trying to block/steal (correct me if i'm wrong). you could adjust the way a ref calls offensive fouls in the low post easily but it's pretty much random when it comes to blocking fouls and such. I guess that on every play where a foul occured a random variable tells the game whether it should call the foul or not. With your idea every ref would have different propabilites for certain fouls.
this would result in biased reffing since there's a chance that the exact same situation occurs twice in a game but is called differently each time (which is what happens a lot now).
I don't know whether this option is still in the game but you used to be able to adjust the propability variables for off and def fouls. My point is that giving the refs a personality is a great idea that would add a lot of flair but wouldn't really improve the gameplay and you can't get around biased reffing since it's random. The developers got to ask themselves if spending a lot of time on the refs is worth the effort compared to all the other stuff that's on their list.

I hope everybody got what i was trying to say
Good ideas here anyway
I love this time of the year when everybody is being creative (apart from patching of course)

[Andrew]

Good point, it would be difficult to implement properly. But it could still work.

I seem to remember one preview mentioning that Live 2004 would feature better ways to draw and initiate contact. This year if we want to stop a player by fouling him, we are supposed to be able to do so more effectively. Depending on how you did that, and who the referee was, perhaps you might either be called for or get away with a flagrant foul.

Just a random thought.