The miscellaneous "Hopes for Live 2004" thread

You can walk up the court in NBA Live 2003 if you have a dual analog gamepad. It requires moving the left stick very slightly in the desired direction.

See...No keyboard

Even as a gamepad user, I preferred the old "hold direct pass to walk" method. But I've grown accustomed to the controls in Live 2003.

Walking up the court... Well, it should have some effect to be useful in the game. I kind of liked the turbo-bar in Live 2000 and 2001 (it was in both wasn't it?) cause it limited your players running and it was a good thing in my mind. Walking should give your player a better form for offense/defense for a little while. It offers a little rest on the court and it should work as such in the game too.

Why I brought up the turbo meter too, well I think they should bring it back and make it recover at a rate of the fatigue meter... So when you are fresh the turbo meter would recharge faster and when you are tired it should recover much slower. And walking the court could speed up the recovery... And thus making walking a good and useful thing.

But I hate that you cannot walk with the keyboard... And that's the bottom line. But everything should have an effect on the game, cause everything does...

I believe the turbo bar was in both NBA Live 2000 and NBA Live 2001.

Fatigue is something that's greatly improved over the early NBA Lives. Up until NBA Live 99, your players would become less effective as they became more fatigued, but it was too easy to burn out a player too quickly. In the early Lives, you could have a starter easily average more points that minutes per game.

From NBA Live 99 onwards, fatigue has been better. You can usually get away with giving your star a couple of minutes rest here and there, and still have them play an effective 40+ minutes. There's usually little danger of burning a player out in the first 6 minutes of the game - so there you have another significant improvement of Live over time.

Back to walking though, it would be good if it had an additional use - conserving energy, recharging a turbo bar - as well as being a means of slowing down the tempo to setup a halfcourt offense.

You need to have gamepad for this

walking though, it would be good if it had an additional use - conserving energy, recharging a turbo bar - as well as being a means of slowing down the tempo to setup a halfcourt offense.

I agree 100%, I enjoyed changing the tempo of the game.... but as far as having players with 40+ minutes ....gee I wish I could -but I only play 10 minute quarters (due to excessive scores). Every game prior to 2003, I played the full 48. I think u guys hit a jackpot with the walking thing hopefully EA fixes this(for 2004).

once thing i have noticed about live 2003 is it appears to me like the fatigue bar is used up only based apon your playres endurace rating. I've tried playing a guy with high endurance and walking him up the floor on posessions, barely ever running, only to find he seems to gets tired at the same rate as when i run him up and down the floor like mad. Doesnt matter how good a players endurance is, non stop running for that long should get then tired pretty quick. Also, its good that all players have their meters fereshed after halftime, but i think they should regain abit after quarters and full timeouts as well. Which would being another option: have 20 sec and full timeouts. 20 sec timeouts could jsut stop the clock and allow subs, while full timeouts may freshen up your palyers a little. Timeouts should also stop flow. If a team is on a runallign a timeout shoudl slow it abit sometimes. Just a thought

two things i'd like to know is:
1 is EA going to improve the rookie draft(more realistic looking players hopefully w/speech) I usually draft my own rookies and change their last names so at least commentators will say the last name of the player, instead of their number.
2 any info on improved subbing.

Timeouts do refresh players and I believe quarter breaks do add some to the fatigue bar. But the fact that all the players fatigue at almost the same rate is bull. Some players are better conditioned then others and this is one thing that should be fixed. Players with low endurance should fatigue faster then the players with high endurances.

And recovery could come from endurance rating too... So some starters would reasonably play only 30+ minutes per game while the rest play 40+ minutes. And the play time distribution should be fixed in the simulation mode. No way the third shooting guard plays the same time as the second option. And all the reserves play equally much which is just bull. Most teams have 8-9 good players which get most of the playing time and the really trash minutes are distributed between the rest.

But walking should have it's benefits as it really does.

You know what EA shud do... Since alot of ppl want a "career mode...they shud ship a Motion Capture Suit with the Game...so that we could put it on...and capture our own motions while shooting J's and shooting freethrows.... ....since they are putting in buyin jets...why not maybe that much realism will do fer everyone



If you haven't realised as yet...I'm JOKING

But walking should have it's benefits as it really does.

Just a thought - if injuries are more common in NBA Live 2004, and it's possible for players to play through injury, perhaps walking would be a means of avoiding further injury. For example, your star point guard might roll an ankle and be hobbled, but still be fairly mobile and able to shoot, and is able to play on. However, if you push him too hard, it's going to make things a lot worse.

or he won't be able to run at full speed

I think a good idea for the off season would be, if you have a strong team but havn't won a championship, and you want to sign another strong player but don't have enough cash, he should settle for less than what he usually would because in this case, there's a better chance for him winning a ring... i think this would make live a bit more realistic and give the sense that the players have actual personallities and do not work on all statistics and numbers...anyone get what im tryin to say?

yeah, hope they hav dat on.. how bout this?? they should put players intelligence.. like intelligent players should be versatile like its more on experience, and it should be difficult to shoot on defensive players(shaq)??damn! also ball tapping and no more shit steals on live2003, the stats should be breifly summarize, and later on others stats will display. matchup lookup also. simple dunks and layups, wikiwiki dunk suckS! DONE!

Another problem in live is that the top ranked teams always win 3 championships straight, because somehow they always end up with a new star player every season, without losing any that they already have. Happane frequently to me when I play a franchise. E.g lakers will have jason kidd and tim duncan on the bench in their third championship season, when realistically they shoul dbe able to afford to sign have players of that level if they are a championship team, because they already have a lineup full of starts. I think they just cheat by signing the star players as free agents for minimum amounts when a new season starts. Thats a bug i've actually used myself a few times.

Many times if you check the free agent list at the start of anew season you will find players with ratings of high 70's, and in the 80s going for minimum amounts because they didnt get signed during the off season. Even though they can only be signed minimum for on eyear, they often resign after it, and it's an unrealistic approach.

Secondly, I have one idea in regards to passing. A few people have said they wanted to be able to have lob passes etc. I thought of one way there may be able to be more control over passes.

*Holding pass and moving the control up could result in a lob pass. This would be most useful if passing to a player in the post who is being fronted, but has a significant height and/or jumping advantage over his defender, and could also be used for alley attempts if on the fast break or if the reciever has a clear path to the basket.

*holding pass and the control down, could make a bounce pass. If a defender is in teh way the ball could bounce off his legs/feet, resulting in a turnover in most cases.

*Holding pass and holdign control towards the direction of the players off
hand (e.g. if the player is right handed, hold it to left) could result in a
behind the back pass. This could be far less accurate and have a higher
chance of turnovers, should have a very hgih turnover rate if the passer
has a pass rating of less then about 80.

*holding pass and pressing in the direction of the players main hand
(right if right handed) could produce a fast chest pass. If a defender is
in the way the ball can go pracitcally right to his hands.

These could also be done by using the freestyle control while holding "direct pass" or someting to that degree.

Also, a player's offensive awareness could have a part in determining whether he catches a pass. A passer might have a great passing rating, but if the reciever has a bad offensive awareness, and may be cought off guard by fancy passes.

Pass rating should come into it in some way also. A player with a pass rating of under 75 should perform very basic passes accurately to players who arent under huge defensive pressures. This would allow defence to take advantage of players with bad passing ratings by double teaming and playing the passing lanes. These players should also have a lowish chance of throwing a successful alley, lop pass, behind the back pass, bounce pass past a defender.

Players with ratings 75-84 should make very accurate passes, have teh ability to pass accurately under defensive pressure, only very rarely perform a fancy pass, but pass quite decent alley/lop passes.

Players with pass ratings of 85-90+ should mainly be extremely accurate with passes, throw successful alleys and lobs frequently, and be nearly unaffected by defensive pressure.

Any player with pass ratings over 90 should be as close to a perfect passer as possible. They should be able to perform all passes, and have a high chance of success even on tricky flashy passes (as long as its not to a player crowded by defenders). They should have a very good chance of success on driving in and then passing out of the post, and passign out of double teams.

This would also fix two problems with realism in live games:

1) A good scoring team will almost always beat a good defensive team in live, because the latter's defense makes little difference in played games. (with the exception of psychotic shot blockign in live, which still has little to do with defence as player can cblocka guy with 6 inches iof height over him). It would allow good defensive teams to play the passing lanes, force turnovers with high defensive pressure and double teams, etc. After this, if the 'hand in the face' factor was made significant, we'd have a pretty good defensive model.

2) Would fix the problem of passing meaning little to nothing. In live games, there is no reason to not draft a rookie SG with an atrocious pass rating, as long as he is a good shooter, and athlelic. In the NBA, a player who cant pass decently will be extremely unlikely to ever become a starter For a player to pass very well, no matter what position he plays, is a big advantage and attraction for NBA teams.

Another idea i thoght of is that a player with a very high offensive awareness could basically move around alot away from the ball, cut alot, set effective screens at good times, have a better chance of gatting past a defender (due to being able to better read defence), post up when they have mismatches, etc. A player with a very low rating could basically just walk around most of the time unless controlled to do someting. This would make the game more realistic, as any decent PG would have to have decent ratings for offensive awareness and passing (id say at least over 75) to be even remotely efective, while youd like a starter to have probably around 85 for both.

A big issue is there should be a way to determine (by ratings) how good a player is a drawing fouls. I think this should be based on a players aggresiveness, strength, quickness, and inside scoring ability. Basically an average of these four could decide how likely a plyer is to draw fouls. Most guys in the league who get to the line alto are very good at atleast 2 or three of those four areas.

Also, not sure if this is already the case, but inside scoring shouldnt just determine a players ability to hit hook shots and the like, but also effect how successful a guard is to drive in the lane and make a layup in traffic, for any player to dunk in traffic, and generally should influence the success any FG attempt in the post. FG ratings and Inside scoring ratigns should be pretty well independant of each other.

The primacy rating should have a big influence on the stats adn minutes a player records. The 5th option on a team probably wont score 25 PPG no matter how good he is offensively. A plyer with high FG rating and high primacy could score more points, but at a lower percentage. High FG rating and low primacy could result in lower averages, but higher percentages. E.g. P.J prown averages only in the area of 10-11 PPG, but scores at above 50%. This shows he can score when called on, but isnt the teams first option on offence, thus couldbe represented by a high FG rating but a low primacy. Rebounding and other stats shouldnt be as much affected by this rating, because its not unusuly for a 5th option player or even a bench player to get 10 rebounds in a game, while players defensively many 4th anf 5th options are at the top of the league in steals or blocked shots.

I know there are alot of ideas so it'd probably be near impossible to have all implemented, but i think at least a few of these might make ok ideas. Any here that you guys do/don't particularly like?

Can't wait till 2k4

also, forgot to mention, by just holding pass without moving the controller it coudl allow the player to pass while remaining control of the passer (so thatthe current system isnt lost for those who like it)

Another option there would be that if the player hods pass while running the current method could be used (i.e. contorl the passer), this way it would avoid throwing fancy passes when a player wants to pass on a fast break, while keeping in control of their passer as well. This method woudl result in the player having to be walking or standing to use the special pass system.

I think a good idea for the off season would be, if you have a strong team but havn't won a championship, and you want to sign another strong player but don't have enough cash, he should settle for less than what he usually would because in this case, there's a better chance for him winning a ring... i think this would make live a bit more realistic and give the sense that the players have actual personallities and do not work on all statistics and numbers...anyone get what im tryin to say?

This, along with contract size being independent of contract length, as well as the ability to have more than one opportunity to sign/re-sign a player, would make free agency in Live much more realistic.

Many times if you check the free agent list at the start of anew season you will find players with ratings of high 70's, and in the 80s going for minimum amounts because they didnt get signed during the off season. Even though they can only be signed minimum for on eyear, they often resign after it, and it's an unrealistic approach.

I think we're all hoping the star players signing for the minimum problem does not find its way into NBA Live 2004. Sure, it's fun when you're simulating to see just how much talent you can cram into your roster, but it's not so fun when you're playing the games.

Holding pass and moving the control up could result in a lob pass. This would be most useful if passing to a player in the post who is being fronted, but has a significant height and/or jumping advantage over his defender, and could also be used for alley attempts if on the fast break or if the reciever has a clear path to the basket.

Nice idea. I think there should be lob passes that aren't alley-oops - simply throwing a high pass for a catch-spin-layup/dunk, rather than passing it straight to the defender who has managed to get into the passing lane.

I like the idea of having control over other passes as well. So often, you're left at the mercy of the pass button; you may not throw a good pass. Freestyle control has made it unnecessary to rely on a random crossover/dribbling move, so passing could definitely benefit from similar total control.

Also, a player's offensive awareness could have a part in determining whether he catches a pass. A passer might have a great passing rating, but if the reciever has a bad offensive awareness, and may be cought off guard by fancy passes.

Personally, I'd make the receivers' ballhandling ratings (Dribbling and Passing) the variables that determine whether a player can catch a pass. Good ballhandlers could in turn catch and control a bad pass. A player's speed and quickness should perhaps also come into play.

Thumbs up to the part about offensive awareness. It would be nice to see your CPU teammates who have a good offensive awareness rating better executing the play and getting in a good position to receive a pass and score.

also, forgot to mention, by just holding pass without moving the controller it coudl allow the player to pass while remaining control of the passer (so thatthe current system isnt lost for those who like it)

Perhaps passing could be controlled by some other means, similar to Direct Pass.

About controlling the pass:

Sometimes you need to move when you pass the ball and controlling all passes would make some really weird looking game. Think about tossing a lob to a guy whose 5 feet away from you or trying to bounce pass to a guy on the fast break... That would just look dumb. Fancy passing should be something that guys with high passing ratings do without any extra controlling. So the AI would not try a bounce pass through three opponents or from one side to another in half court offense. It should change but total control of passing is just something that isn't too good to have. You could keep on getting tons of turnovers simply because you don't see the situation like the player sees it on the court.

Cathing the pass, well I too think it should be more about awereness then ball handling... Everyone can catch the ball, not everyone can dribble it.

And the difference between a good pass and a bad pass is usually that with the good pass you get the ball where you want it and with a bad pass you usually get the ball passed to where you wanted it a second ago. So a good pass enables scoring abilities by outplaying the defense, but bad passing can't shake the d.

About the free agents:

Live 2003 has a totally screwed up system for FA's... The salaries are too big for role players and you can basically never get under the salary cap. And you can have team with absolutely no chance for a title and still have salaries 800k over the cap, and that's just wrong. They should either tune down the overalls to Live 2001 level (best being 88-90) or fix the salary.ini file...

About stars signing with teams... Most of stars sign with their teams unless the team is Clippers No star signs for a minimum unless he is 38 years old, no matter how much he wants the title and minimum signings should go away pretty much with the fixing of salary problems. Though these problems have been in lives before salary problems, but this should be fixed with putting another re-sign players sequence at the end of the post season that a player who doesn't get signed for good money in the off-season would return to their original teams (Olowokandi) for a short contract with his pay. And signing a free agent shouldn't be automatic, you should be able to throw your cash at a couple of players and see who is intrested and then sign one or two of them. And FA's should take offers and reject or accept them with some delay (in the off-season) so that they could see what other teams are intrested... Accepting less money to play for a title shot should be one priority for star players, but there should be others like team mates, place of birth etc. So if a player is from Dallas, I think he would definitely sign for one of the Texan teams rather then Seattle... It needs a very complex calculation to add all this.

But it is ridicoulus to see that a team has Shawn Marion starting at SF and Pau Gasol as a back up and the teams power forwards sucking hard at hardly 80... The AI should change player primary positions to have the best lineup on the floor. Again a thing that has worked in the past quite well, but has been totally messed up for Live 2003.

Well, I think I'll stop here to hear what you other people have to say.

Yep, I agree about the rating issues there. About the pass control issue, I think that would'nt really make it bad, because it would give the player full control of the type of pass to make. In a real game you dont have a computercontrolling your mind to tell you "this is the right situation for a bounce pass" or "this is where you lob it", it's up to the ballhandler to decide this. In some situation there can be anumber of diffrent types of passes that may work, but give diffrent results.

For example, on the fast break players sometimes throw a full court lob, toss an alley if in decent range, throw the ball off the board, intentionally miss, etc. There is no particular set type of pass for each situation. Also, the way the comp controlled passing would probably have to go would be for the computer to judge based on the situation which pass is the perfect one. This is all cool, but in reality players don't always make the right pass for the right moment. This is why id like to see the complete player control of passes. Perhaps the realism slider could allow the feature to be disabled for those who dont want to use it? soem type of a cpu control slider. when high the cpu does everything, when low player has full control of passing, dribbling, shooting etc. Even better, have all 3 seperately? Non-enthusiats probably would'nt appreciate a full player control system, so i guess that is a valid point. Slider control i think would solve both problems.

Another type of pass i thought would be nice is if you are onthe fastbreak and there is a teammate running behind you there shoudl be some kinda of behind the back pass or maybe the aforementioned off teh board pass by pressing pass and shoot simultaneously an holding the controller in the direction of the teammate? Before any pass control could be implemented however, the game engine would have to be optimised strongly to ensure that directional inputs are accurate based on the set camera angle. If the pass system is as bad as it is now (at times), then the pass control woudl be fairly useless.

Your idea about the CPU controlling the passes could work well with the passing ratings, as it could result in higher rated players throwing the right type of pass in 9 situations out of 10. The negative would be that then average rated players or 60ish rated players will probably always throw stupid passes in wrong situations (knowing what EA generally does with AI) and this woud be overkill because no passer in the NBA is THAT bad. Could work thought if they made sure even the lowest rated players threw decent passes.

And yes it is true that most good passers throw accurate passes where they should go, as opposed to just more fancy passes, but the latter is also generally associated with good passers. You don't often see michael olowakandi try a behind the back pass or a no looker. On the other hand of you watch J-kidd it's hell sometiems get off a no look pass and get an assist that you normally wouldn't get from a normal pass (e.g. driving into traffic, drawing a double team, and then dishing off a no looker to an open player, when you couldnt get the same result from jus ta normal pass).

Also, double teaming has to be worked on in a few ways:
1) every guy who posts up shouldnt get double teamed
2) guys who DO shouldnt get a double team on them THAT quick
3) double teams shouldnt result in a steal 90% of the time, especially when from behind. Often live doube teams don't even give you a chance to pass out. It's rediculous when you get afraid to post shaq up because your last 5 attempts have resulted in steals from the double teamer, the defender, or both.

EA have spoken on imporoved post play, hopefully this has been adressed. There are alot of great idea's on these forums and i think EA should get some of their "creative idea" people to check out this site from time to time. It only takes me 10 minutes to read the latest posts in this thread in particular, and out of those 10 minutes i often see many bright ideas. I think EA have to think of 10 minutes per day ( or even eery 2 ro 3 days) can create huge potential for profits. Some of these idea if implemented could sway almost all bball fans to the live series, and even some non-bball fans towards the series.

Looks like they have some good ideas into live 2k4 though, and lets all hope it isn't jsut promotional hype like 80% of EA claims have been in the past. How many times have we hear "revolutionary post play" "improved defense engine" "amazingly enhanced graphics" only to find they are all the same as ever (and to remember they were also on teh box the year before).

Either way though i realy can't wait for live, and keep bringing on the ideas !

More things i'd like to see:

1) Return of player of the half (the way the used to, best player for both teams at halftime)

2) Better selection of MVP at the end of the season (it almost always chooses the player with the highest PPG average or the highest rating). How about getting a formula like the NBA's efficiency rating, and basing it on that? Add the teams win/loss stats somewhere in the formula and u have a relatively realistic MVP award. I've had a PG average 20PPG, 6RPG, 11APG, 2.3 SPG, 1 BPG, and shoot at 52% from the field, 41% on 3PT, 88% Ft's,(all while playing on the championship team) and then see a guy win MVP because he averages 32PPG (and every other category significantly lower). The award is more like a scoring title then the MVP award. If possible it would be nice to have a plyers value to his team have a part in it but that'd probly be hard to implement.

3) More info about rookies. I've heard NBA2k3 has a scouting type report which gives players strehgths and weaknesses (like live) but also says what type of player he is. E.g. "could be the next Jordan" , "game resembles a young shaq", "defends like ben wallace" etc. Sometimes ill be looking to draft a player and the scouting reports doesnt give me enough information. I know exactly the type of player im after, (say, a good defensive SG with good offensive awareness and who is not too showy but very fundamentally sound) and all the scouting report will tell me is "excellent defender" "could one day lead the league in steals" "has a pro body". It tells a little but not much. It would be great to see "has a game similar to reggie miller" when you are looking for a young pure shooter.

4) With rookies, how about having 2nd round picks who arent completely useless, and are very solid in a particular area. For example, a guy who isnt top 10 material, but has good size , is a good shotblocker, and has great defensive awareness. In live it seems like a top5 pick who has "top defender" will have a defensive awareness of 87 while a 2nd roudn player wiht "top defender" will have an aweareness of 79. Terms should represent how good a player is in particular area overall, not based on where they are taken. "could one day lead the league in steals" should represent a steal rating of 85+ while "quick hands defensively" shoudl represent 75-84, etc. Also, if a rookie is given more minutes, he should have a slightly higher chance improving and becoming a big star (as long as he doesnt have a 61 rating). randomly, every now and then a very good player should be put in the second round. say, a guy with a 79 rating. This would give u that feeling of "hmm should i take arisk on a 2nd round guy". At the moment, if i dont have a top 15 pick u just forfeit all my picks, because they are just a waste of roster space and salery cap space (which goes amazingly fast).

Sometimes you need to move when you pass the ball and controlling all passes would make some really weird looking game. Think about tossing a lob to a guy whose 5 feet away from you or trying to bounce pass to a guy on the fast break... That would just look dumb. Fancy passing should be something that guys with high passing ratings do without any extra controlling. So the AI would not try a bounce pass through three opponents or from one side to another in half court offense. It should change but total control of passing is just something that isn't too good to have. You could keep on getting tons of turnovers simply because you don't see the situation like the player sees it on the court

Granted, but leaving it up to the CPU also results in a lot of turnovers. At the very least, I'd like two lob passes, an alleyoop and an overhead pass when posting up.

Cathing the pass, well I too think it should be more about awereness then ball handling... Everyone can catch the ball, not everyone can dribble it.

Well, not everyone can catch the ball particularly well. A player with poor coordination who can't run particularly fast probably won't be too good at catching the ball on the run when running the fast break - that would be more his ballhanlding ability than offensive awareness, since he might be good in a slower, half-court game where he can post up.

And signing a free agent shouldn't be automatic, you should be able to throw your cash at a couple of players and see who is intrested and then sign one or two of them. And FA's should take offers and reject or accept them with some delay (in the off-season) so that they could see what other teams are intrested...

Negotiations, the ability to put off signing a free agent and a free agent testing the waters then returning to sign with his team would all be great additions. I'm not sure we'll see something that in-depth in Live 2004, but hopefully we'll see the beginnings of a more sophisticated free agency system.

But it is ridicoulus to see that a team has Shawn Marion starting at SF and Pau Gasol as a back up and the teams power forwards sucking hard at hardly 80... The AI should change player primary positions to have the best lineup on the floor. Again a thing that has worked in the past quite well, but has been totally messed up for Live 2003.

Yes, it would be good to see the CPU teams ignore or change the primary position if it means a better (and more realistic) starting lineup. Adding to that, perhaps a tertiary position would be good as well. For example, Pau Gasol can play at both forward spots and centre. Therefore, if the team's centre wasn't available, Gasol would fill in at centre and the highest rated forward on the bench would move into the starting five.

Also, double teaming has to be worked on in a few ways:
1) every guy who posts up shouldnt get double teamed
2) guys who DO shouldnt get a double team on them THAT quick
3) double teams shouldnt result in a steal 90% of the time, especially when from behind. Often live doube teams don't even give you a chance to pass out. It's rediculous when you get afraid to post shaq up because your last 5 attempts have resulted in steals from the double teamer, the defender, or both.

Definitely. This is one of the most frustrating things in Live 2003 - you have to make your move in the post quickly, or you'll get the ball stripped. Also, there's no way a Michael Doleac or Obinna Ekezie should be frequently double teamed in the post.

nothing to add

this isnt a big deal but for me it adds to the excitement. did they have glass tapping in 2003 cuz i know they had it in 2k3...hope they add it in 2004.

I don't think it was in Live 2003 - if it was, it was very subtle.