TIRED OF ALL NEW TOPIC FOR SIMPLE QUESTION cant we do something???

[johnwest1985]

Sorry guys but i feel that the number of new topics for just asking simple questions is getting out of control. The last month this forum has seen a lot of activity which is great and some months ago we would not care for people starting new threads for a question because nothing was happening here. But now to me its getting out of hand. I usually try to make all RED threads blue like twice a day to not miss any mods. Is there anything we can do about it ? Just a open question and wonder what you regulars think about it. My suggestion would be a question thread on top of the modding page saying " ASK QUESTION ONLY HERE " or something... peace

[bluejaybrandon]

Sorry guys but i feel that the number of new topics for just asking simple questions is getting out of control. The last month this forum has seen a lot of activity which is great and some months ago we would not care for people starting new threads for a question because nothing was happening here. But now to me its getting out of hand. I usually try to make all RED threads blue like twice a day to not miss any mods. Is there anything we can do about it ? Just a open question and wonder what you regulars think about it. My suggestion would be a question thread on top of the modding page saying " ASK QUESTION ONLY HERE " or something... peace

So you started a new question thread seeking to eliminate separate question threads? Irony aside, I would assume the reasoning is similar to why there is no request thread. People do not traffic those threads to the same degree they do others. People post new threads because it works and is usually answered quickly if its simple. Then it disappears down the thread as more updated threads are commented on. If not then it sticks around and was clearly something that was relevant to a large amount of people.

I don't think you need to look into every thread and "make them blue". Just stick to the ones that are most relevant to your interests or that contain mods you are looking for. I don't think discussion should be stifled because some people are here for mods only. Not saying that is you at all, I just don't think a forum should cater to those who don't intend to make it a community.

[ebok24]

Sorry guys but i feel that the number of new topics for just asking simple questions is getting out of control. The last month this forum has seen a lot of activity which is great and some months ago we would not care for people starting new threads for a question because nothing was happening here. But now to me its getting out of hand. I usually try to make all RED threads blue like twice a day to not miss any mods. Is there anything we can do about it ? Just a open question and wonder what you regulars think about it. My suggestion would be a question thread on top of the modding page saying " ASK QUESTION ONLY HERE " or something... peace

Is it that hard to help those people in need?

[RAYNATION]

Sorry guys but i feel that the number of new topics for just asking simple questions is getting out of control. The last month this forum has seen a lot of activity which is great and some months ago we would not care for people starting new threads for a question because nothing was happening here. But now to me its getting out of hand. I usually try to make all RED threads blue like twice a day to not miss any mods. Is there anything we can do about it ? Just a open question and wonder what you regulars think about it. My suggestion would be a question thread on top of the modding page saying " ASK QUESTION ONLY HERE " or something... peace

this forum is created for mods and questions about the game. There's a lot of people here who are new to the modding community and they need help. Just dont click on those post that is not in your interest. Problem solved no need to throw a tantrum because some people is asking questions.

[Sith]

It's simple just to create another two pinned threads like "Requests" and "Questions" in modding section and forbid to create new topics for it. That's what i would do.

[bluejaybrandon]

It's simple just to create another two pinned threads like "Requests" and "Questions" in modding section and forbid to create new topics for it. That's what i would do.

They’ve had a requests thread before and it was rarely frequented. Eventually people started asking in creators threads so it reverted back to this. This place is older than many including myself give it credit for. I’m not saying they couldn’t be brought back but there’s a reason those don’t exist.

[johnwest1985]

@ebok, i dont mind helping people in need at all. To me its more of a order issue. But anyway its just my humble opinion. Thanks Bluejaybrandon for the feedback.

[Andrew]

I definitely understand your frustration, and appreciate you raising your concern. It's something I'd like to address, but it's easier said than done.

As noted, we used to have separate sections for Help and Requests, which were eventually combined into a single Help & Requests section. However, that section was soon plagued by the same problem that caused us to merge the former sections into one in the first place: modders weren't going in there, so people either just posted off-topic in the Releases & Previews section so they'd be seen, or gave up altogether. Either way, it wasn't effective, and made the community seem unfriendly, unwelcoming, and unhelpful.

We got rid of Help & Requests, directing all of those topics to be posted in the main discussion area, apart from Releases & Previews. That didn't really work, either. Both the rule on where to post, and any topics posted in the correct section, tended to be ignored as before. That's when we decided to go with central Modding sections, underneath the general section. Ironically, now we have people posting modding-related topics in the general section instead.

Stickied topics are another option that seems ideal on the surface, but aside from the possibility of cluttering up the modding section, they have two main problems: 1) posts in there can get lost in the shuffle, and 2) despite their prominence, they get overlooked or ignored. To that second point, there's an odd phenomenon where a topic will actually gain less attention if it's stickied, even if there were demands for it to be pinned beforehand (go figure, right?). Also, in theory stickied topics are easier to find, but because they're somewhat static and may not always receive a new post every day, they can actually blend in (especially when a handful of topics are pinned). It's weird, but often how it works.

The other issue with stickied topics is that people's opinions tend to be divided when you try to direct all traffic in there. Some people are a bit shy about creating new topics and would prefer to post in an existing one, which stickied topics are ideal for. Other people feel they'll get more attention with a new topic of their own, and won't want to use an existing one. Similarly, some people like the tidiness of stickied topics, while other people feel restricted or even bullied by strict rules to only post in a central sticky or announcement topic.

We can do different things with permissions, such as only making it possible for a modders group to create new topics in the Modding section, thereby directing everyone else to use a Help & Requests section or stickied topics. There are a few problems with that, though. Most importantly, it's potentially unwelcoming and elitist, forcing people to basically apply for access to post their mods here. That in turn just creates extra work for me and an extra step for everyone else that's only going to discourage people from wanting to take part in the Forum.

In short, finding a solution that is effective, balanced, and agreeable to the majority is easier said than done, especially when we've tried a few different approaches that have eventually proven to be problematic or ineffective. I'm open to suggestions of course, but if it's something that we've tried before without much luck (or it's become outmoded), then my first instinct is to ask for new ideas because those old ones are no longer viable. That being said, feel free to throw out suggestions so that we can weigh the pros and cons, and see if we can come up with a solution that keeps things tidy, friendly, and efficient.

[Mahmood]

I definitely understand your frustration, and appreciate you raising your concern. It's something I'd like to address, but it's easier said than done.

As noted, we used to have separate sections for Help and Requests, which were eventually combined into a single Help & Requests section. However, that section was soon plagued by the same problem that caused us to merge the former sections into one in the first place: modders weren't going in there, so people either just posted off-topic in the Releases & Previews section so they'd be seen, or gave up altogether. Either way, it wasn't effective, and made the community seem unfriendly, unwelcoming, and unhelpful.

We got rid of Help & Requests, directing all of those topics to be posted in the main discussion area, apart from Releases & Previews. That didn't really work, either. Both the rule on where to post, and any topics posted in the correct section, tended to be ignored as before. That's when we decided to go with central Modding sections, underneath the general section. Ironically, now we have people posting modding-related topics in the general section instead.

Stickied topics are another option that seems ideal on the surface, but aside from the possibility of cluttering up the modding section, they have two main problems: 1) posts in there can get lost in the shuffle, and 2) despite their prominence, they get overlooked or ignored. To that second point, there's an odd phenomenon where a topic will actually gain less attention if it's stickied, even if there were demands for it to be pinned beforehand (go figure, right?). Also, in theory stickied topics are easier to find, but because they're somewhat static and may not always receive a new post every day, they can actually blend in (especially when a handful of topics are pinned). It's weird, but often how it works.

The other issue with stickied topics is that people's opinions tend to be divided when you try to direct all traffic in there. Some people are a bit shy about creating new topics and would prefer to post in an existing one, which stickied topics are ideal for. Other people feel they'll get more attention with a new topic of their own, and won't want to use an existing one. Similarly, some people like the tidiness of stickied topics, while other people feel restricted or even bullied by strict rules to only post in a central sticky or announcement topic.

We can do different things with permissions, such as only making it possible for a modders group to create new topics in the Modding section, thereby directing everyone else to use a Help & Requests section or stickied topics. There are a few problems with that, though. Most importantly, it's potentially unwelcoming and elitist, forcing people to basically apply for access to post their mods here. That in turn just creates extra work for me and an extra step for everyone else that's only going to discourage people from wanting to take part in the Forum.

In short, finding a solution that is effective, balanced, and agreeable to the majority is easier said than done, especially when we've tried a few different approaches that have eventually proven to be problematic or ineffective. I'm open to suggestions of course, but if it's something that we've tried before without much luck (or it's become outmoded), then my first instinct is to ask for new ideas because those old ones are no longer viable. That being said, feel free to throw out suggestions so that we can weigh the pros and cons, and see if we can come up with a solution that keeps things tidy, friendly, and efficient.

I've always thought we needed an FAQ of sorts, for the most common questions that we receive on the thread and pin it up. That way, newer users or those who don't know what they're doing can refer to that thread and receive detailed explanations to the most asked questions, but those who have a question that's not listed and/or purely situational, can create a new topic. This might be a cleaner way. Just my two cents.

[Andrew]

I think that'd definitely help, definitely worth a try!

[Thunder Shaq]

Yeah I think a lot of the newer people don’t know where to go (likely due to be directed to this site from another source). I get questions asked frequently that have been answered in my own thread and multiple others. The tutorial section often answers many of the frequent questions asked regarding simple modding.i think no matter what is created, people are going to walk right past the help and ask the same questions over and over. Perhaps if there is a concentrated area where we can direct them, that may be of help. We can only hold people’s hands so much haha. I’m not really opposed to creating new topics if it is a question about an aspect of modding that isn’t already plastered around the forum. And if it ends up being something that has been discussed before, as a community we can direct them to the topic and that new thread will eventually be buried.

[RobDavis]

I think that'd definitely help, definitely worth a try!

Well you do have the "Welcome to the NBA 2K20 Modding Section!" I know its supposed to be used as a start page of some sort for new users but maybe change the title a little to indicate users should look there first. You could also bring back a Question and Answer thread for the modding section and maybe grab a bunch of forum regulars that don't mind answering questions or providing what help they can to look over the thread occasionally. Maybe give them a forum title or something. I know I get questions everywhere here, OS, Twitter, Instagram, FB and Youtube lol. I try to answer what I can but sometimes I cant help with everything.

[johnwest1985]

Great suggestions !! My point never was the questions being bad btw just to make that clear. The reason i reacted to it is that we have seen such a upspike. A alternative is to see how that develops but with people being isolated and having more time on their hands it seems that this modding section will only grow and so will this issue.

[Dee4Three]

Great suggestions !! My point never was the questions being bad btw just to make that clear. The reason i reacted to it is that we have seen such a upspike. A alternative is to see how that develops but with people being isolated and having more time on their hands it seems that this modding section will only grow and so will this issue.

I think it was a fair, and valid point that could use some discussion around it. This thread was a great idea, and the location makes sense because it pertains to modding.

I think the title of the thread could have been a little less aggressive, that was the only thing that I saw that stood out as a possible negative.

Certainly a lot more activity in the modding section this year, in turn creating a lot more questions/more threads. I appreciate all of those who are asking questions in relation to LEARNING how to mod, because they want to be independent. The one-off requests (which I created a thread for this year, 82-83 Clippers), can sometimes look like they are cluttering up the modding section when they are done in clusters.

A requests/questions area where people can create topics? It might work, maybe create it right under "NBA 2K20 Modding" and call it "NBA 2K20 Modding Requests/Questions". The tutorials and faqs thread answers so many of the questions being asked, but people seldom go digging, they want a quick answer, and obviously that is not ideal. So I encourage those with questions about modding "how tos" to explore that section, as great tutorials have been made. Or when asking a question, put it in the appropriate thread here (example, if it has to do with one of Looyhs tools, ask the question in that thread)

Maybe you can just do a "NBA 2K20 Modding Requests" thread under NBA 2K20 Modding for now. Not sure how hard that would be to add, but I feel like that's how it would have to be done, because you dont want a THREAD created where people are just throwing out a ton if requests, you want a page where people could create topics.

Again though, good question.

[johnwest1985]

Thanks dee4three.. Agree that the topic came out a bit harsh ! I agree that creating a threat for questions in the modding forum would not hurt. We can give it a try and see what happens. A alternative is a message coming up before people create a new thread that says that if you have questions post them here or there. Not sure if that is possible though ? I think if we limit new threads the goal is reached. We cant avoid it. Also it would be easier for people to help persons with questions if they would be in a single thread. I think most of us like helping others.

[[Stove]]

I always appreciated all the help everyone gave me when I first got here. I would start new threads like it was nobody's business lol, asking about this and that. 99% of the time someone came to my aid. I always did feel a little bad about starting new topics to ask simple questions, but I had nowhere else to ask as far as I knew. I don't think having a questions thread is the worst idea in the world, however I can also completely see how that thread would be scarcely frequented. I do however not mind the random questions in the forums so much, I see it and I know exactly how that person feels not knowing and wanting an answer to get their project done. I always try to at least nudge someone in the right direction as others did for me in my time of need. Even now I still won't know how to do something and I'll ask. So I wouldn't mind a questions thread but at the same time I'm also not gonna go nuts if one never exists and it remains the same. I think it's a valid point to bring up as this place, even in the short amount of time that I have been here has seen an activities boost. I think the virus probably has a lot to do with it as we have no NBA and a lot of people sitting at home watching Youtube videos that direct them here and things like that. Thread or no thread let's all smoke some joints and get along.

[brendancasimir]

Also doesn't help that new people like me have gotten next to no help and ended up figuring out most of the stuff on my own, which is fine. But, when I get to a point where i need help and post and get zero responses thats frustrating. I have a full time job as well so i cant just spend hours on end for things that an experienced modder could probable help me with 4 minutes of their time.

I'm also very experienced with graphics and modeling and have had some interesting breakthroughs but its difficult to want to share when i have gotten seemingly no help here. Just saying.

b

[Andrew]

Just to clear up some terminology, when we're talking about threads, are we talking about topics or sections/boards? Traditionally, "threads" has been used interchangeably with the term "topics" (though phpBB itself prefers not to use the word threads at all), but I've also seen it in the context where "section", "subsection", or "board" would be more appropriate. The difference for anyone who happens to be confused is that a topic or thread is a new post that anyone can make, while a section/board is where said posts are posted in (and can only be created by an admin). A stickied topic/thread is one that always appears at the top of a section/board, so that it's easier to find.

It's no problem to create new sections or a stickied topic; the only question is effectiveness and likelihood of success, based on what's worked, never worked, or once worked but stopped working, in the past. A Help & Requests section is easy enough to create and trial, but history suggests that it'll be immediately ignored in favour of the more active Modding section, or eventually ignored if not enough people are responding to requests for help or mods. Honestly, I just don't see it going any differently this time around, but it admittedly wouldn't be difficult to try it out and merge the section back into Modding if it flopped, so it's feasible.

I think there's more merit in trying out stickied topics for general questions and requests. However, the requests in particular won't do much good if people aren't responding to them, or open to them in the first place. Without knowing who's open to requests - and obviously, no one is obligated to be - then it's generally easier to ask someone directly "Hey, do you take requests?" and proceed from there. To that end, establishing a list of modders who are taking requests is probably the preliminary step here. That way, the first post of a Requests topic could let people know who's taking requests and what they're taking requests on.

Of course, some people are always going to just contact those who are most active and visible, regardless of whether or not they're the right person to ask. No system is going to perfect, so we do all have to be patient with each other and realise that there'll be off-topic posts or messages for people that don't take into account they're not taking requests or can't help with a certain question because it's not their area of expertise, and point people in the right direction as much as we can.

i think no matter what is created, people are going to walk right past the help and ask the same questions over and over.

This touches on one of the key problems regardless of the approach. Some people just won't take the time to look for (or at) the already posted resources and try to understand them, or want some personal tuition in the form of replying to their questions in a new topic. As you said, that's always going to be a thing.

Well you do have the "Welcome to the NBA 2K20 Modding Section!" I know its supposed to be used as a start page of some sort for new users but maybe change the title a little to indicate users should look there first. You could also bring back a Question and Answer thread for the modding section and maybe grab a bunch of forum regulars that don't mind answering questions or providing what help they can to look over the thread occasionally. Maybe give them a forum title or something. I know I get questions everywhere here, OS, Twitter, Instagram, FB and Youtube lol. I try to answer what I can but sometimes I cant help with everything.

The thing is that you can call that topic anything you like, people who want to be spoon fed information and can't be bothered looking at the resources in place will still just ignore it in favour of creating a new topic. That's not to say we shouldn't have a Q&A topic that helps direct people and also serves as a catch-all for additional questions and answers. That'd be useful to have to point people in the right direction, and cater to people who would prefer to reply to a central topic rather than create their own. It's worth doing, but also worth noting that some people will ignore it.

The other thing is that regardless of the approach, people with knowledge need to be ready and willing to share it. That was the issue with previous stickied topics, as well as the separate sections. Modders just didn't respond to them, so people got fed up a) asking in a place that wasn't getting attention, or b) asking altogether. In theory, it's something that people in the Contributors group might handle (and many often do), but if there are people who are willing to take that role, then perhaps a similar group could be established.

A alternative is a message coming up before people create a new thread that says that if you have questions post them here or there. Not sure if that is possible though ?

It's not possible, as unfortunately there's no function to do that. Even if it was though, I could see that being a major turn-off for people trying to participate in the Forum, because it's adding an extra step to posting and making them feel like they have to jump through hoops if they want to post here.

Also doesn't help that new people like me have gotten next to no help and ended up figuring out most of the stuff on my own, which is fine. But, when I get to a point where i need help and post and get zero responses thats frustrating. I have a full time job as well so i cant just spend hours on end for things that an experienced modder could probable help me with 4 minutes of their time.

I'm also very experienced with graphics and modeling and have had some interesting breakthroughs but its difficult to want to share when i have gotten seemingly no help here. Just saying.

b

It's really good to get this perspective as well, and I'm glad you mentioned it. That is also an issue we need to address here: people being willing to help out and share their knowledge, regardless of how we're presenting the platform for doing so. It's obviously impossible to guarantee that no posts will ever get overlooked, but we can do our best to minimise that and not have people feel like they're being ignored.

A big problem here is that modders can get burned out on answering questions, because some people can be quite pushy in asking for help. I know I've had a lot of messages over the years where people have clearly felt that just because they've asked nicely, I'm obligated to become their personal modding tutor, or fetch them links whenever they can't be bothered browsing or using the Search function, and I'm sure that others have had similar experiences. Some people also don't want to listen or follow instructions, which is frustrating for anyone trying to help them. It results in less patience and willingness to go out of one's way to help because of all the headaches, which leads to new people copping the brunt of frustration caused by others. It becomes an unfortunate and unfair vicious cycle.

With that being said, I'd like us to be more helpful and facilitate that in any way possible. As someone who has had trouble getting a response to questions, which do you feel would be the most effective way of being able to ask? What would be the most comfortable? Have you felt more overlooked responding to existing topics, or when creating new ones? Obviously there are pros and cons to consider, and it'll take a community effort to make things work as best as they possibly can, but it'd be interesting to know what's the most appealing approach to someone who is newer and has had issues getting answers to their questions.