NBA 2K20 Screenshots

[bluejaybrandon]

Ah I apologize. I didn’t realize you were a basketball savant. Please don’t tell me you have Malone and Barkley ahead of Lebron. I give you Magic, Bird, Jordan, Kareem but after that you’re running thin on players who are better overall basketball players. If you actually think Hakeem, Barkley, Drexler or others are ahead, please save us all the trouble and avoid discussing overalls. I mean, I can’t even fathom the mental gymnastics it takes to say there are several players before James.

It’s clear you’d be biased and irrational concerning older players which is fine. Old heads can be like this when there’s change. You’d hate on Lebron if he cured cancer. When statistics don’t matter, there really is no rationalizing with that. I’m saying objectively when comparing statistics he is top 5 all around and beats out others you have named. You want to talk subjectively about abstract aspects like how Charles Barkley fit in his shorts or how many Christmas cards Larry Bird sent his teammates. When you get into the abstract like that, you can find any reason to elevate players. But stats don’t lie and Lebron James stats equate to that of top 5. Cold, hard data.

Now I hereby declare this discussion as over because I feel that we can’t discuss this and therefore I win! Am I doing that right Dee?

GOAT debate is ... a debate, so everyone has his opinion, none is the one and only one.
you wrote Prime LeBron is #2 undoubtly. Well, just an example, Prime Hakeem was better IMO, won 2 titles, the firt one as UNIQUE superstar in his team.
Player'stats are a part of the equation, but it says nothing without context : teammates, opponents, rules. And defense -50% of the game- is very difficult to measure by stats.

But this isn’t about GOAT at least it wasn’t in my mind. It started with a discussion on overalls. I said Lebron is undoubtedly the second best overall player behind MJ. Hakeem had amazing peaks just like others did. But for all around proficiency regarding the game of basketball, I don’t see how you can’t include Lebron. Overalls are determined by the ratings of a player and Lebron is naturally gifted in multiple significant aspects of basketball.

You at least admit he is a Top 5 all around player I hope? Thank you for saying stats are necessary and part of the discussion. It’s clear you respect the past but aren’t blinded by it. It’s refreshing to discuss this with someone who actually understands basketball and not someone who thinks they do.

[Dee4Three]

Ah I apologize. I didn’t realize you were a basketball savant. Please don’t tell me you have Malone and Barkley ahead of Lebron. I give you Magic, Bird, Jordan, Kareem but after that you’re running thin on players who are better overall basketball players. If you actually think Hakeem, Barkley, Drexler or others are ahead, please save us all the trouble and avoid discussing overalls. I mean, I can’t even fathom the mental gymnastics it takes to say there are several players before James.

It’s clear you’d be biased and irrational concerning older players which is fine. Old heads can be like this when there’s change. You’d hate on Lebron if he cured cancer. When statistics don’t matter, there really is no rationalizing with that. I’m saying objectively when comparing statistics he is top 5 all around and beats out others you have named. You want to talk subjectively about abstract aspects like how Charles Barkley fit in his shorts or how many Christmas cards Larry Bird sent his teammates. When you get into the abstract like that, you can find any reason to elevate players. But stats don’t lie and Lebron James stats equate to that of top 5. Cold, hard data.

Now I hereby declare this discussion as over because I feel that we can’t discuss this and therefore I win! Am I doing that right Dee?

GOAT debate is ... a debate, so everyone has his opinion, none is the one and only one.
you wrote Prime LeBron is #2 undoubtly. Well, just an example, Prime Hakeem was better IMO, won 2 titles, the firt one as UNIQUE superstar in his team.
Player'stats are a part of the equation, but it says nothing without context : teammates, opponents, rules. And defense -50% of the game- is very difficult to measure by stats.

Yes, and I have Hakeem over LeBron on all-time. His constant demand of double teams, his ELITE defense (could be the greatest defensive player of all time, but I have Jordan, Russell and Wilt also in that conversation), his leadership etc.

He stuck it out with the Rockets and won his first title in 93-94 in a West that won 53% of the leagues overall games, and his second in 94-95 in a West that won 58% of the leagues games. For those two years it was the stronger conference, and he and the Rockets were awesome.

Both teams had weak benches, with Vernon Maxwell even quitting during the first round in the 95 playoffs. K. Smith, Maxwell, Horry and Thorpe is hardly what you call stacked (93-94), but Hakeem was literally that good. So many things he did didnt even show up on the stat sheet (his stats were also elite, mind you). His command of double teams on almost every possession caused defense to be out of position constantly, it opened up the entire perimeter at times because they would throw a second guy at him, and he would kick it out and the defense would suddenly be scrambling, they couldnt recover to the shooters and often it ended up in an open three or open mid range shot. The amount of hockey assists Hakeem had was unreal, hockey assists (the pass that leads to the pass that leads to the score) does not show up on the stat sheet. Hakeem NEEDED to be double teamed because he was a knockdown mid range shooter, great around the basket, with an ELITE back to the basket game. Amazing in the low and high post (Elbows), and on the short corners.

Shot contests do not, either. Effectively closing out or contesting a shot and forcing someone to miss, or doing the same and forcing someone to pass, does not show up on the stat sheet. Hakeem was CONSTANTLY altering shots and making the offense uncomfortable. His defensive stats are ELITE, but they dont tell even close to the whole story.

He was also doing this in a league with Shaq, Ewing, David Robinson, Mourning, Mutombo, Willis, Daugherty, etc. At a time where bigs men roamed the paint and the game was far more physical. He dueled and won against some of the greatest centers in NBA history. As good as Shaq, Ewing, Robinson etc were, they just weren't as good as Hakeem.

Drop Hakeem into LeBrons era in THAT EAST (Or in general), and I easily take Hakeem. Not even a question.

Drop LeBron in Hakeems era, I easily take Hakeem. That's not even a question for me.

Have an open court where we don't know anybody's names, no media hype, just watching players play BASKETBALL. I take Hakeem, easily. I take Hakeem Olajuwon as a BASKETBALL PLAYER over LeBron James.

I have Hakeem over LeBron, period.

My statement on stats "Stats are a support for certain on court happenings, stats ARE NOT BASKETBALL. "

I literally didn't say stats don't matter, I said that stats are not the whole picture, and not the final say. SO MANY THINGS happen outside of the stat sheet, things that are not measured in box scores, advanced stats, analytics, etc. Not all rebounds are created equal, not all assists, not all steals and blocks. Not all points are created equal because they come at different times of games and circumstances, etc. Someone can have 8 rebounds and 6 of them be because he was sagging off his assignment and hanging in the paint, 6 that fell to him, and out of those 6, 4 came when they were down 20 and the game was out of reach. Another player can have 8 rebounds, 6 that he fought for, with those 6 coming in the midst of a tough game, one that sealed the win. Both those 8 rebound games look EXACTLY THE SAME on the stat sheet.

You learn FAR MORE by watching the games. You CANNOT SEE the defense shifting and Hakeem being double teams on every possession with stats, you CANNOT SEE Steph Curry making the defense shift constantly with and without the ball in stats. Hakeem, David Robinson, Larry Bird, Kareem, Duncan, Garnett, Russell Westbrook, Wilt Chamberlain, Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson, Bob McAdoo, Clyde Drexler, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Kobe Bryant, John Stockton, etc etc all have GREAT stats. They all can hang in the stat department.

Last edited by Dee4Three on Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[bluejaybrandon]

Via Fobes

No one in the 15th season of their careers, at age 33, has accomplished what LeBron has done at such a consistent, dominating and efficient rate. He has averaged the most rebounds and assists of his career this season. Like a fine wine, he has only gotten better with age, with no signs of slowing down. He started and played in all 82 regular-season games and 18 playoff games, playing the most minutes in the NBA. This past Sunday against the Boston Celtics, James played 48 minutes in his 100th game of the 2017-18 season, posting a magnificent 35-15-9 performance, breaking the hearts of Boston fans and silencing his critics in Game 7 at TD Garden.

LeBron has willed his way to yet another NBA Finals appearance, his eighth straight, with what is often considered a mediocre supporting cast that is perhaps his worst team since the 2006-07 squad, which was swept by the San Antonio Spurs in the Finals.

On the journey to his eighth straight Finals appearance, LeBron has accomplished some never-before-seen feats. Against the Pacers in the first round, LeBron averaged at least 30 points, 10 rebounds and 7 assists. No other player in NBA history has done that more than once. He also improved his career first-round record to 13-0. In the conference semifinals against Toronto, James became the NBA’s all-time leader in postseason steals; his total prior to Game 1 of this Finals series sits at 414. Not to mention, he passed Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and MJ for the most points in NBA playoff history with 6,775 prior to Game 1.

The man literally does it all. Overall’s in 2k are based on the various attributes given. Lebron is easily the second most well rounded NBA player behind Jordan and deserving of his ranking. Smh people coming in here trying to say Clyde Drexler should have a higher overall when he did a handful of things well. He’s athletic and can score...okay so basically he’s deserving of his 2k rating.

Over his career, Lebron has proven his ability to pass, defend, score, and rebound at elite levels. He’s a Swiss Army knife in ways few other players are. Stockton has assists and steals, Drexler could score, Hakeem could block, rebound and score but nobody combines so many facets of the game like Jordan and Lebron. That’s what overalls are based of so as Dee would say, “GTFOH” with the Clyde Drexler should be rated higher overall than Lebron.

[Dee4Three]

Via Fobes

No one in the 15th season of their careers, at age 33, has accomplished what LeBron has done at such a consistent, dominating and efficient rate. He has averaged the most rebounds and assists of his career this season. Like a fine wine, he has only gotten better with age, with no signs of slowing down. He started and played in all 82 regular-season games and 18 playoff games, playing the most minutes in the NBA. This past Sunday against the Boston Celtics, James played 48 minutes in his 100th game of the 2017-18 season, posting a magnificent 35-15-9 performance, breaking the hearts of Boston fans and silencing his critics in Game 7 at TD Garden.

LeBron has willed his way to yet another NBA Finals appearance, his eighth straight, with what is often considered a mediocre supporting cast that is perhaps his worst team since the 2006-07 squad, which was swept by the San Antonio Spurs in the Finals.

On the journey to his eighth straight Finals appearance, LeBron has accomplished some never-before-seen feats. Against the Pacers in the first round, LeBron averaged at least 30 points, 10 rebounds and 7 assists. No other player in NBA history has done that more than once. He also improved his career first-round record to 13-0. In the conference semifinals against Toronto, James became the NBA’s all-time leader in postseason steals; his total prior to Game 1 of this Finals series sits at 414. Not to mention, he passed Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and MJ for the most points in NBA playoff history with 6,775 prior to Game 1.

The man literally does it all. Overall’s in 2k are based on the various attributes given. Lebron is easily the second most well rounded NBA player behind Jordan and deserving of his ranking. Smh people coming in here trying to say Clyde Drexler should have a higher overall when he did a handful of things well. He’s athletic and can score...okay so basically he’s deserving of his 2k rating.

Over his career, Lebron has proven his ability to pass, defend, score, and rebound at elite levels. He’s a Swiss Army knife in ways few other players are. Stockton has assists and steals, Drexler could score, Hakeem could block, rebound and score but nobody combines so many facets of the game like Jordan and Lebron. That’s what overalls are based of so as Dee would say, “GTFOH” with the Clyde Drexler should be rated higher overall than Lebron.

Bluejay, quoting a Forbes article and continuing to quote stats and being incredibly simple gets you nowhere. FYI - LeBron is not easily the second most all around player ever.

Bird was:

- A better rebounder
- Equal or better passer
- Better from EVERYWHERE outside of 3ft as a scorer and a threat
- MUCH better back to the basket game, and in the low and high post
- Better and more of a threat on catch and shoot
- Better and more of a threat from mid
- Better team defender
- Better teammate
- Mentality edge
- In the clutch

Drop Bird in at any point in LeBrons career, and I take Bird. Bird is the greatest SF of all time in my opinion. I take Bird over LeBron in any era.

Drop Magic in any decade, and I am taking Magic over LeBron

Drop Hakeem in any decade, and I am taking Hakeem over LeBron

Drop Kareem in any decade, and I am taking Kareem over LeBron

Drop Kobe in any decade, and I am taking Kobe over LeBron

Drop Jordan in any decade, and I am taking Jordan over LeBron

Drop Wilt in any decade, and I am taking Wilt over LeBron

Drop Shaq in any decade, and I am taking Shaq over LeBron

Again, GTFOH telling people that they have to have LeBron as #2 all time, and that they are ignorant if they say otherwise. I tell you that Dirk and Durant don't have him in their top 5, and you say "Of course they would say that", I could tell you that former players say they don't have him #2 all time, and you would say "Nostalgia, bias, old head". DONT YOU GET IT??? You are literally saying that everybody else is not being truthful for certain reasons, with the exception of YOU. That is NOT the way this works. With your thought process, NOBODY IS BEING HONEST and nobody is giving educated opinions with the exception of people who have LeBron #2 all time, THINK ABOUT IT! You are calling ME an old head, and buckcity an old head, in order to discredit our POV, and you are calling Durant and Dirk "dishonest" because they played in his era.

THAT IS NOT HOW IT WORKS!! That is COMPLETE BS!!!

If I am building a team, LeBron is NOT in my starting 5. If I am choosing the most skilled players of all time, LeBron is NOT in my top 5. If I am choosing players who I can drop into any era and they would be ELITE, LeBron is not in that top 5. If I am choosing a top 5 two-way players ever, LeBron is NOT in my top 5. etc, etc

I would ABSOLUTELY have the best Drexler better overall than last years LeBron. 100%.

[bluejaybrandon]

Why are you relying on the Kevin Durant Top 5 so much? You realize he had Kobe and Shaq in there? I mean you have bad takes but THAT is a travesty. Shaq is a big man who dunks good...ohhh so impressive. Kobe can score lots...neat. Bird couldn’t walk by the time he got to Lebron’s age and Lebron is still putting up numbers that Larry Bird would’ve begged to have.

I’m not going to continue this because it’s clear you don’t understand basketball and hate on Lebron because it’s “the sophisticated man’s opinion” not what the media wants us to think. Continue with your retro content and giving inflated ratings to guys that excelled in only a few aspects of the game. The rest of basketball will appreciate the current greatness of Lebron and understand that he’s unequivocally top 5 overall players.

Saying “I watched the game and these players had intangibles that other don’t” is such a cop out response. You’re making it impossible to empirically rank players if you get into all that “alternative medicine”, abstract thinking. Nobody thinks your more advanced because you watched Clyde Drexler play. He’s not an overall better player than Lebron. He didn’t have more points. He didn’t have more assists. He didn’t have more rebounds. He didn’t have more blocks. He wasn’t as well-rounded. 2k properly rated him below Lebron. The same can be said for every other legend outside of Michael Jordan. The overalls are proper. Jordan #1, Lebron #2. That’s how 2k ranks them, that’s how it is.

It’s over Dee, please don’t respond because I said so and therefore the discussion is over and that’s how this works.

Last edited by bluejaybrandon on Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

[bluejaybrandon]

Points Per Game

Clyde Drexler 27.2 (1989)
LeBron James 31.4 (2006)

Rebounds Per Game

Clyde Drexler 7.9 (1989)
LeBron James 8.6 (2018)

Assists Per Game

Clyde Drexler 8.0 (1986)
LeBron James 9.1 (2018)

Steals Per Game

Clyde Drexler 2.7 (1989)
LeBron James 2.2 (2005)

Blocks Per Game

Clyde Drexler 0.9 (1992)
LeBron James 1.1 (2009)

At no point was Clyde better even in his best seasons. Sorry but taking him over Lebron is IGNORANT and shows your bias.

[Rosque]

All this just because I mocked a dude who puts Clyde over Bron?

[bluejaybrandon]

All this just because I mocked a dude who puts Clyde over Bron?

Unfortunately some didn’t understand it was mockery and decided to die on the hill that Drexler is better.

[Sith]

Somebody please save this game from devs

[Dee4Three]

Why are you relying on the Kevin Durant Top 5 so much? You realize he had Kobe and Shaq in there? I mean you have bad takes but THAT is a travesty. Shaq is a big man who dunks good...ohhh so impressive. Kobe can score lots...neat. Bird couldn’t walk by the time he got to Lebron’s age and Lebron is still putting up numbers that Larry Bird would’ve begged to have.

I’m not going to continue this because it’s clear you don’t understand basketball and hate on Lebron because it’s “the sophisticated man’s opinion” not what the media wants us to think. Continue with your retro content and giving inflated ratings to guys that excelled in only a few aspects of the game. The rest of basketball will appreciate the current greatness of Lebron and understand that he’s unequivocally top 5 overall players.

Saying “I watched the game and these players had intangibles that other don’t” is such a cop out response. You’re making it impossible to empirically rank players if you get into all that “alternative medicine”, abstract thinking. Nobody thinks your more advanced because you watched Clyde Drexler play. He’s not an overall better player than Lebron. He didn’t have more points. He didn’t have more assists. He didn’t have more rebounds. He didn’t have more blocks. He wasn’t as well-rounded. 2k properly rated him below Lebron. The same can be said for every other legend outside of Michael Jordan. The overalls are proper. Jordan #1, Lebron #2. That’s who 2k ranks them, that’s how it is.

It’s over Dee, please don’t respond because I said so and therefore the discussion is over and that’s how this works.

Complete and total nonsense, again.

LeBron is not top 5 for me, and that is the way it is. Not because I am an old head, or triggered, or "boomer" (that's not even the right timeframe), or because I am nostalgic or biased. I literally take those players I mentioned over LeBron in any decade, all of them, without hesitation.

You can bring up all the stats you want, I can bring up stats, but that doesn't change the fact that LeBron is not in my top 5.

Your original statement about anybody who has LeBron not at #2 being ignorant, and the fact that you call those who are a bit older "old heads" and "nostalgic" and "ignorant" for not having him top 5 (because they have to be either to not have him in it, right?) And players who currently play or played in his era not capable of putting him in the top 5 because they wouldn't prop up a player who played in the same era, is incredibly telling. You literally refuse to acknowledge that either older, or younger generation could possibly be anything other than "ignorant", "biased" "nostalgic" "old head" etc can have an educated, unbiased opinion that places LeBron out of the top 5 (or even out of the top 2, mind you)

Your comments basically parrot the likes of Max Kellerman, Skip Bayless, Dan Patrick, Nick Wright, Shannon Sharpe, Colin Cowherd, etc". The media that likes to keep things incredibly simple for the target audience, who jab at eachother and make ridiculous casual claims that are done purposely in order to get a reaction, cause divide, and prop up the now product. Those media members are puppets, the takes are ridiculous and seldom ever discuss actual basketball. Want to listen to someone talk actual basketball and dive deep into it? Listen to Mike Fratello during an actual broadcast. What you get from these media props is exactly what you are spewing. Casual takes that are heavily centered around stats/accolades but are missing SO MUCH context it makes me want to throw up.

Again, your initial reaction to Buckcitys comment, and calling anybody ignorant for not having LeBron as #2 all time, and stating that him being #2 is a fact, is what started this whole thing. You continued on that path all the way up to your recent comment.

Give it up. We are going in circles.

[BuckCity]

Last time i checked Clyde Drexler didn't have to created multiple superstar teams just to reach the finals. He got there twice in a tougher era. Also, he has a better post game, ball in hand game, and jumpshot. Like Dennis Rodman said Lebron is not great at anything he's just big. If you put lebron on those late 80s to early 90s trail blazers. He doesn't lead them to the finals. The team only has one shooter and that's terry porter lebron cant win with that roster. That's why all his superstar teams are built the same way. Stretch big and another superstar that can takeover in the 4th. Cough Dwayne Wade Cough Kyrie against the warriors in the finals torched Steph and the warriors. Drop mic debate over.

[bluejaybrandon]

You recognized you just dismissed an entire industry who’s job it is to follow basketball? Obviously I value the opinions of people who are paid to follow and analyze basketball. Bill Simmons is widely considered one of the brightest basketball minds around by both basketball and non-basketball intellects. He has Lebron #3. He’s the biggest Celtics home around so he’s got Russell #1 but even he admits Bird isn’t as good as Lebron overall.

There are people who believe the Holocaust is fake or the Earth is flat but that’s doesn’t mean we need to rationalize their opinion and believe them when they’re in the minority and their beliefs deviate from what we can empirically test.

When you break your arm, do you turn to your friend who claims to have seen many broken arms and watched videos on how to fix broken arms? No you go see a doctor who is paid to give an opinion backed by undisputed factual evidence. I’ll take the expert opinions over your “eye test” every time.

[Dee4Three]

You recognized you just dismissed an entire industry who’s job it is to follow basketball? Obviously I value the opinions of people who are paid to follow and analyze basketball. Bill Simmons is widely considered one of the brightest basketball minds around by both basketball and non-basketball intellects. He has Lebron #3. He’s the biggest Celtics home around so he’s got Russell #1 but even he admits Bird isn’t as good as Lebron overall.

There are people who believe the Holocaust is fake or the Earth is flat but that’s doesn’t mean we need to rationalize their opinion and believe them when they’re in the minority and their beliefs deviate from what we can empirically test.

When you break your arm, do you turn to your friend who claims to have seen many broken arms and watched videos on how to fix broken arms? No you go see a doctor who is paid to give an opinion backed by undisputed factual evidence. I’ll take the expert opinions over your “eye test” every time.

Incredibly telling, again.

You have no idea how ridiculous you are being. Wake up, your disposition from the onset has been foul. And it has continued down that path the entire time.

Those talking heads are PAID to ENTERTAIN. They are PAID to get reactions and discuss players the way they do. They are PAID to prop up the current product, they are PAID to help the product and the league. They are PAID to keep it simple for the casual target audience. Which is why they are INCREDIBLY SIMPLE with the analysis. The names I mentioned are not EXPERTS on the game, LISTEN TO THEM TALK!!!

Frankly, your comments are embarrassing.

[bluejaybrandon]

Last time i checked Clyde Drexler didn't have to created multiple superstar teams just to reach the finals. He got there twice in a tougher era. Also, he has a better post game, ball in hand game, and jumpshot. Like Dennis Rodman said Lebron is not great at anything he's just big. If you put lebron on those late 80s to early 90s trail blazers. He doesn't lead them to the finals. The team only has one shooter and that's terry porter lebron cant win with that roster. That's why all his superstar teams are built the same way. Stretch big and another superstar that can takeover in the 4th. Cough Dwayne Wade Cough Kyrie against the warriors in the finals torched Steph and the warriors. Drop mic debate over.

Are you serious? He drug the Blazers to a finals appearance yes, but Lebron dragged a 09 Cavs team to the final with Big Z being the second best player. Drexler then proceeded to team up with Hakeem (super team much?) to gain his only finals win. He’s literally never been the best player on a championship team.

Clyde Drexler is also not a better shooter (career 3% .318) vs Lebron James (.343).

Lebron took the Warriors on single handedly when Kyrie went down in 2017 and almost prevailed. Maybe if Clyde would’ve created more superstar teams he might actually been relevant and won more finals.

[Dee4Three]

I made this post on twitter. Peter Vescey liked it and followed me after, and many others agreed. And I stand by it.

If you are getting your basketball knowledge from:

Skip Bayless
Shannon Sharpe
Max Kellerman
Stephen A. Smith
Nick Wright
Colin Cowherd
Dan Patrick
Chris Broussard
Etc

You don't know basketball. Mostly what you get from them are casual takes that appeal to the target audience

[bluejaybrandon]

You recognized you just dismissed an entire industry who’s job it is to follow basketball? Obviously I value the opinions of people who are paid to follow and analyze basketball. Bill Simmons is widely considered one of the brightest basketball minds around by both basketball and non-basketball intellects. He has Lebron #3. He’s the biggest Celtics home around so he’s got Russell #1 but even he admits Bird isn’t as good as Lebron overall.

There are people who believe the Holocaust is fake or the Earth is flat but that’s doesn’t mean we need to rationalize their opinion and believe them when they’re in the minority and their beliefs deviate from what we can empirically test.

When you break your arm, do you turn to your friend who claims to have seen many broken arms and watched videos on how to fix broken arms? No you go see a doctor who is paid to give an opinion backed by undisputed factual evidence. I’ll take the expert opinions over your “eye test” every time.

Incredibly telling, again.

You have no idea how ridiculous you are being. Wake up, your disposition from the onset has been foul. And it has continued down that path the entire time.

Those talking heads are PAID to ENTERTAIN. They are PAID to get reactions and discuss players the way they do. They are PAID to prop up the current product, they are PAID to help the product and the league. They are PAID to keep it simple for the casual target audience. Which is why they are INCREDIBLY SIMPLE with the analysis. The names I mentioned are not EXPERTS on the game, LISTEN TO THEM TALK!!!

Frankly, your comments are embarrassing.

Damn Dee I was wrong...your not an old head. You’re incredibly woke. The media is a machine, it’s fake news. The talking heads want you to believe them because it’s part of the conspiracy.

You sound insane. You’re the type to dismiss facts right in front of your nose if they don’t fit your narrative. You disregard expert opinions because “you’ve watched old school basketball”. Just know, you’re in the growing minority that ignore Lebron’s accomplishments.

I made this post on twitter. Peter Vescey liked it and followed me after, and many others agreed. And I stand by it.

If you are getting your basketball knowledge from:

Skip Bayless
Shannon Sharpe
Max Kellerman
Stephen A. Smith
Nick Wright
Colin Cowherd
Dan Patrick
Chris Broussard
Etc

You don't know basketball. Mostly what you get from them are casual takes that appeal to the target audience

Damn. And then everyone clapped. Do you also use “the best words”. Your ego knows no bounds.

“I got so many likes”, “this conversation is over”. You’re acting like a high school girl. What a diva.

Oh I get it. I checked out your twitter and you’re a Celtics stan and Lebron hater. Lol this is pointless you’re delusional in your jealousy and hatred. You post gifs of Lebron just to try to dissect them and tear them apart. Sorry about Game 6 in 2012, but it’s time to give it up.

You spend all your time on Twitter defending antiquated basketball. That must be exhausting.

[Dee4Three]

Last time i checked Clyde Drexler didn't have to created multiple superstar teams just to reach the finals. He got there twice in a tougher era. Also, he has a better post game, ball in hand game, and jumpshot. Like Dennis Rodman said Lebron is not great at anything he's just big. If you put lebron on those late 80s to early 90s trail blazers. He doesn't lead them to the finals. The team only has one shooter and that's terry porter lebron cant win with that roster. That's why all his superstar teams are built the same way. Stretch big and another superstar that can takeover in the 4th. Cough Dwayne Wade Cough Kyrie against the warriors in the finals torched Steph and the warriors. Drop mic debate over.

Are you serious? He drug the Blazers to a finals appearance yes, but Lebron dragged a 09 Cavs team to the final with Big Z being the second best player. Drexler then proceeded to team up with Hakeem (super team much?) to gain his only finals win. He’s literally never been the best player on a championship team.

Clyde Drexler is also not a better shooter (career 3% .318) vs Lebron James (.343).

Lebron took the Warriors on single handedly when Kyrie went down in 2017 and almost prevailed. Maybe if Clyde would’ve created more superstar teams he might actually been relevant and won more finals.

Shooting/shooter doesnt = Threes

Shooting is in the mid range, in the post, catch and shoot inside the 3 point line, AND threes. LeBron is a CAREER PLAYOFFS under 40% from 3-10ft, 10-16ft, and 16-23ft

Here is LeBrons 3PT shooting in the playoffs in his 3 title runs, and here is Jordan's in hist first 3.

Jordan's 3pt shooting in the first 3 title runs (playoffs - Line not moved in)

91: .385%
92: .386%
93: .389%
Total: 55/142 .387%

LeBron 3 title runs (playoffs)

12: .259%
13: .375%
16: .340%
Total: 90/275 .327%

But Jordan was a "shitty" three point shooter according to the majority of casual and young fans. Trust me, I see it all over Twitter. I can bring up stats as well. Here is Harden last 4 playoffs.

Let's see

16: .310% (8.4 att per)
17: .278% (10.5 att per)
18: .299% (10.2 att per)
19: .350% (12.5 att per)

LeBron James Career Shooting

CAREER
.418% 3-10ft
.369% 10-16ft
.387% 16-23ft
.343% three

PLAYOFF CAREER
.381% 3-10ft
.351% 10-16ft
.378% 16-23ft
.332% three

-Not reliable outside 3ft
-Poor post game
-4 out era/paint open/few rim protectors
-Weakest CONF NBA history
-Handchecking removed in 04-05
-7 of his 8 straight finals runs were in the weakest conf in NBA History with two other all-stars
-Never requires a double team even in the playoffs because hes not reliable outside of 3ft
-Footwork/Body Control not on par with other greats
-Has never been an elite defender
-Not a reliable FT shooter
-Not even close to the rebounder he should be given his size in this era
-Again, when teams want to buckle down on him in the playoffs, he doesnt have any reliable go to moves

I have MANY REASONS why LeBron is not a complete player, and why he is not in my top 5. Drexler was fantastic with Houston btw, in the finals Orlando struggled BIG TIME to stop him. The 94-95 Rockets were not a super team, they had Drexler and Olajuwon and a bunch of role players, and were not even a top team in the league for a regular season record.

LeBron is NOT IN MY TOP 5. PERIOD.

Oh, and "Celtics stan" and "LeBron hater"? because I grew up an hour outside or Boston and have followed them all my life? I am a BASKETBALL AND NBA FAN as well. I have Jordan as the GOAT, and Magic and Kobe BOTH above leBron all time (both Lakers) HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE FROM A CELTICS STAN TO HAVE KOBE AND MAGIC IN MY TOP 10???. I have Magic #3 all time, HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE??

NO, YOU are implying that everything is covered in bias when it doesnt suit your stance. THAT is kicking and screaming, that is acting like a child, that is being RIDICULOUS. Calling other people ignorant for not sharing your POV and stating that something that is opinion is FACT is acting RIDICULOUSLY and is incredibly shortsighted.

People CAN and DO have sports opinions and takes that exist without bias, it's a THING. If someone can backup a stance with points that are accurate and make sense, and can truly break it down, OLD HEAD, BIASED, NOSTALGIA, ETC does NOT apply. Its someone making an honest basketball take.

LeBron is NOT in my top 5! And THAT is FINE!!!!!!

Last edited by Dee4Three on Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

[bluejaybrandon]

It’s not even worth discussing. It’s like throwing a life raft to someone who refuses to tread water.

It’s clear from your twitter feed that it’s your life’s mission to defend the dated players and chastise the current. Take your biases and make your retro rosters. The rest of us will live in reality where Lebron is certainly better than Clyde Drexler and generously Top 3. I’m glad you’re educated on the old school game but it may be time to invest in cable television and watch some current basketball. Having Lebron not even top 10 (which I’m assuming he is not based on the crazy names you’d take over him) is completely unworthy of discussion and is incredibly damning for your basketball credibility.

[Dee4Three]

It’s not even worth discussing. It’s like throwing a life raft to someone who refuses to tread water.

It’s clear from your twitter feed that it’s your life’s mission to defend the dated players and chastise the current. Take your biases and make your retro rosters. The rest of us will live in reality where Lebron is certainly better than Clyde Drexler and generously Top 3. I’m glad you’re educated on the old school game but it may be time to invest in cable television and watch some current basketball. Having Lebron not even top 10 (which I’m assuming he is not based on the crazy names you’d take over him) is completely unworthy of discussion and is incredibly damning for your basketball credibility.

GOODBYE!

[bluejaybrandon]

It’s not even worth discussing. It’s like throwing a life raft to someone who refuses to tread water.

It’s clear from your twitter feed that it’s your life’s mission to defend the dated players and chastise the current. Take your biases and make your retro rosters. The rest of us will live in reality where Lebron is certainly better than Clyde Drexler and generously Top 3. I’m glad you’re educated on the old school game but it may be time to invest in cable television and watch some current basketball. Having Lebron not even top 10 (which I’m assuming he is not based on the crazy names you’d take over him) is completely unworthy of discussion and is incredibly damning for your basketball credibility.

GOODBYE!

[bluejaybrandon]

As my penance for clogging the thread, here’s a preview for Kevin Porter Jr. Glad to see 2k scanned the rookie tattoos. I think they even got most leg tattoos last year too so that would be huge.

[BuckCity]

I guess its time i piss bluejay off some more. I don't even have Lebron in my top 20 all time list. Every player i have ahead of him i would take with ease in todays era.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain (Would destroy any era. Too far ahead of his time. Needed 3 point line to really take advantage of his skills. Did very well for a guy on had to footage to go off of to improve his game. He even had a mid range jumper) Better mid range jumper than lebron lol)
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (Kareem struggled alot facing a old wilt chamberlain with bad knees.)
4. Tim Duncan
5. Kobe Bryant (gave kobe slight edge over bird due to longevity and winning 2 championships after running shaq off to prove he can win as the number 1 gave helped his legacy. 2-1 in the finals without shaq not bad.) Do that lebron (3-6)
6. Larry Bird
7. Hakeem Olajuwon
8. Shaq
9. Jerry West
10. Magic Johnson
11.Bill Russell
12. Oscar Robertson
13. Moses Malone
14. Karl Malone
15. Charles Barkley
16. David Robinson
17. Isiah Thomas
18. Kevin Garnett
19. Dwayne Wade
20. Dr. J
21. Clyde Drexler
22. Lebron James

Last edited by BuckCity on Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

[Aston]

I guess its time i piss bluejay off some more. I don't even have Lebron in my top 20 all time list. Every player i have ahead of him i would take with ease in todays era.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain (Would destroy any era. Too far ahead of his time. Needed 3 point line to really take advantage of his skills. Did very well for a guy on had to footage to go off of to improve his game. He even had a mid range jumper) Better mid range jumper than lebron lol)
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (Kareem struggled alot facing a old wilt chamberlain with bad knees.)
4. Tim Duncan
5. Kobe Bryant
6. Larry Bird
7. Hakeem Olajuwon
8. Shaq
9. Jerry West
10. Magic Johnson
11.Bill Russell
12. Oscar Robertson
13. Moses Malone
14. Karl Malone
15. Charles Barkley
16. David Robinson
17. Isiah Thomas
18. Kevin Garnett
19. Dwayne Wade
20. Dr. J
21. Lebron James

Stop blaspheming on 2K20 Screenshots topic lol

Oh, it's Dwyane*

Last edited by Aston on Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

[bluejaybrandon]

I guess its time i piss bluejay off some more. I don't even have Lebron in my top 20 all time list. Every player i have ahead of him i would take with ease in todays era.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain (Would destroy any era. Too far ahead of his time. Needed 3 point line to really take advantage of his skills. Did very well for a guy on had to footage to go off of to improve his game. He even had a mid range jumper) Better mid range jumper than lebron lol)
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (Kareem struggled alot facing a old wilt chamberlain with bad knees.)
4. Tim Duncan
5. Kobe Bryant
6. Larry Bird
7. Hakeem Olajuwon
8. Shaq
9. Jerry West
10. Magic Johnson
11.Bill Russell
12. Oscar Robertson
13. Moses Malone
14. Karl Malone
15. Charles Barkley
16. David Robinson
17. Isiah Thomas
18. Kevin Garnett
19. Dwayne Wade
20. Dr. J
21. Lebron James

I’m not pissed. I couldn’t care less. That’s like saying I’d be pissed that you ordered the greatest President’s of the United States wrong when you put Millard Fillmore and Chester Arthur before Lincoln or Washington. You’re entitled to your own opinion, it’s just wrong based on everything we know historically and you look uneducated for making the claim.

Also based on your senseless logic Lebron should be 22 because you already established Clyde Drexler is better. If you’re going to be illogical, at least be consistent.

[BuckCity]

by the way bluejay how old are you? You gotta be under 24