The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

I know Rondo has a 69 in both 3 pt rating and mid-range.

Defenses shouldn't play that tight a guy with those ratings, especially when this guy keeps driving against them all the time.

But that's only the minor problem.

The major problem is that Dirk can drive against a bunch of opposing PF's, when in real life he isn't able to drive past nobody.

Of course we could decrease layup sliders so that players have a hard time finishing it once they drove past defenders. But then you start to see guys missing extremely easy layups, which looks very artificial in my opinion.

I was able to reduce driving itself by drastically decreasing acceleration with ball, but in this case players look like they are stuck in mud, which completely ruins the great movement fluidity that I think this game has.

[Dee4Three]

I have tried something very similar shady, but sure, let's give that a go.

Also, what are we talking about? We are talking about me getting by my guy about 100% of the time on the perimeter no matter who I use, with on ball defense for CPU at 100 and plenty of other tweaks that favor the CPU. That is a huge problem, that is what we are talking about as well.

I appreciate the recommendation, but don't say you 100% agree with me that it's a big issue, and at the same time act like the only issue has to do with the layup contact or contest frequency. I disagree with your POV on these issues completely. Even if I get contested sometimes now at the hoop, the going by players about 100% of the time is a giant, and for me game breaking issue.

Last edited by Dee4Three on Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I know Rondo has a 69 in both 3 pt rating and mid-range.

Defenses shouldn't play that tight a guy with those ratings, especially when this guy keeps driving against them all the time.

But that's only the minor problem.

The major problem is that Dirk can drive against a bunch of opposing PF's, when in real life he isn't able to drive past nobody.

Of course we could decrease layup sliders so that players have a hard time finishing it once they drove past defenders. But then you start to see guys missing extremely easy layups, which looks very artificial in my opinion.

I was able to reduce driving itself by drastically decreasing acceleration with ball, but in this case players look like they are stuck in mud, which completely ruins the great movement fluidity that I think this game has.

Exactly.

I can blow by basically any other guy in my position with Dirk, or Hernangomez, or anybody else. It doesn't matter. To act like this isn't a game breaking problem, I don't get it. You mean to tell me I NEVER need to use moves to get by people (like my video), which makes everybody feel the same. You mean to tell me all the fancy dribble moves. Size ups etc mean NOTHING because all I have to do is run in? Did you see how I was playing with Frank, you mean to tell me I can score 100 points with him OR Curry and there is no difference between them because I can just run in with both.

Let's be real guys....

I think everyone complaining about defense here already tried to max out every single defensive slider in CPU favor, as well as decreasing things like ball-handling, layup and dunk ratings and so forth.

While myself personally managed to reduce points in paint from drives resorting to those sliders tweaks, some side effects end up occurring, like for example:

- opposing guards blocking a lot of inside shots (including some spectacular ones from behind and even against bigs sometimes),

- layups missed with mild contact even with elite finishers like Iverson or Kyrie,

- every player being slow handling the ball,

- every player being able to frequently strip the ball from opposing players during driving motion (regardless of steal attributes),

- Lebron making a layup when wide open during a fast break (because I decreased either dunk frequency or dunk rating, since "dunk in traffic frequency" doesn't do anything, even at zero),

- And so on.

I also had success in improving cpu drive defense by making all opposing teams play zone defense 100% of the time, but here the side effect is quite obvious.

Try ShadyMikes sliders. I played as the Grizzlies versus the West allstars. The sliders seem OK for the straight line drives once players start to get tired but I beasted with Marc Gasol the entire 1st quarter driving to the hoop and later in the 3rd I beasted with Deyonta Davis killing Lamarcus Aldridge and then got a few points on Anthony Davis. But when Gasol started to tire KD got a few blocks. Draymond was causing turnovers against Davis. I ended up losing but had fun getting a few highlight dunks with Deyonta Davis.

If I play against non All stars I wonder how much of challenge I could get with these sliders. I think I will keep these sliders for now and test them again later.

Verdict: While getting to the basket was still pretty easy for stretches, there were also a few good stops by the CPU. Sliders are better than default for me but may not resolve the straight line drive issue for more skilled users.

It's unplayable. Sliders don't fix it.

[Dee4Three]

Try ShadyMikes sliders. I played as the Grizzlies versus the West allstars. The sliders seem OK for the straight line drives once players start to get tired but I beasted with Marc Gasol the entire 1st quarter driving to the hoop and later in the 3rd I beasted with Deyonta Davis killing Lamarcus Aldridge and then got a few points on Anthony Davis. But when Gasol started to tire KD got a few blocks. Draymond was causing turnovers against Davis. I ended up losing but had fun getting a few highlight dunks with Deyonta Davis.

If I play against non All stars I wonder how much of challenge I could get with these sliders. I think I will keep these sliders for now and test them again later.

Verdict: While getting to the basket was still pretty easy for stretches, there were also a few good stops by the CPU. Sliders are better than default for me but may not resolve the straight line drive issue for more skilled users.

So you are telling me, that an improvement is Marc Gasol beasting on DRIVES to the hoop for an entire quarter, and a 3rd quarter of Deyonta Davis doing the same thing? I'm all set.

I've stated how big of a problem this is many, many times, including showing videos (the most recent one should be quite the eye opener if people's eyes weren't open to it already). I've stated why this is a game breaker for me, knowing in my mind that at any point, at any time, I can have the confidence to just run by my guy to the hoop. No dribbling moves needed, no smarts. Boom, just....run by him. Throw the dribbling controls out the window folks, you don't need them.

You people who are contesting this are playing the same game you know, that stuff I did with the Knicks on the Warriors... you can do that as well. That's not debatable at this point, it's literally on the videos. I cannot get any enjoyment from playing a game that I know any time I want I can run by my guy.

No "well you shouldn't play that way". That's not how this works, my brain doesn't tell me "hey, do dribbling moves that look cool but serve no purpose to get by your guy" my brain tells me "well, just run by him and get to the hoop, he can't do anything to stop you, why do dribble moves?". My brain doesn't say "hey, don't take Leonard to the hoop with Marcus Smart, that wouldn't be realistic", my brain says "Well Leonard can't stay in front of you, nobody can, so you might as well just run by him to the hoop".

You don't fake realism because of a games shortcomings. That is insane. The game should have a semblance of realism that you, the gamer, can adapt to and play with, that's why it's a simulation. I could score 100 points a game with Terry Rozier in in this game, all with straight line drives and win by blowout, you want to tell me I'm playing wrong? Or the game is playing wrong? Are you saying I have the issue? Or the game has the issue?

The game is playing wrong, the game has the issue.

You think saying an obvious statement like not every player plays defense like Gary Payton somehow justifies me being able to score 100 points a game and win, with basically any player I want? Do you see how that is completely failed logic? Nobody said every player should defend like Payton, or that every player was a great defender. There is a balance that needs to be acheived, a happy medium. You can't justify what happens in that video I showed.

In 2K17, the brick wall defense created excessive bumping, absolutely, it was not a perfect game. However, in the half court, you could get by your guy by putting moves together correctly, or getting by your guy off the catch and a first step, and... the better ball handlers and stars in general had a better chance of doing that. There was no driving in a straight line to the hoop every time, we had to work for it. And when you got by your guy, you felt like you accomplished something, it felt good. So while it had its shortcomings, it was more of a challenge, and because it was more of a challenge, you did have to move the ball, or work the post. I don't have to do any of that with 2K18, I literally just have to run in a straight line to the hoop.

This game fell very, very short of my expectations. And as I've stated prior, I just don't understand how these things get into the final product.

Last edited by Dee4Three on Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

So here it is, with your sliders Sticky Fingers.

No, this is you playing with broken sliders.

And i really think (and its not placebo effect) that you have to choose HoF, then load your sliders and then touch nothing ingame.

So here it is, with your sliders Sticky Fingers.

No, this is you playing with broken sliders.

And i really think (and its not placebo effect) that you have to choose HoF, then load your sliders and then touch nothing ingame.

I am playing with your sliders on this video. I started on HOF, and loaded your sliders.

and then you go into sliders at the very begining of the video during a game

and then you go into sliders at the very begining of the video during a game

I used your Sliders as well. I was playing with the All-time Sixers vs All-time Knicks. I was having a really hard time against the Knicks on that game, guess what I did to get the win? It begins with "ISO" and finish with "Doctor J". Just easy dunks all over until I win the game. If I did that all game, It would probably be a blowout, and Wilt 100 point game would not be the highest scored in a game by a single player anymore

I wish I could go back to 2k17. Better gameplay and Dee Retro Rosters are already there. But I only have this game on the PS4, and I REALLY hate that High-school body-type, I don't want to see that shit in front of me ever again. I feel like I don't have any Basketball game to take seriously at the moment

if you play on PS4, you have to copy my sliders, save it. Then select HoF and then load my sliders from main menu / settings, not during a game !
BTW AI never trap you ?
I already had big games with MJ and Scottie, and i was surprised that AI trapped both.

About Dee last video, what i've got most of the time is this type of defense https://youtu.be/s0U-DeAlQRA?t=1m30s
That's why i'm pretty satisfied.

@ ShadyMike : My sliders are basically HoF with CPU speed/power advantage over Userr, with more pump fake success. I'm not pretending to compete with you.

So you are telling me, that an improvement is Marc Gasol beasting on DRIVES to the hoop for an entire quarter, and a 3rd quarter of Deyonta Davis doing the same thing? I'm all set.

Verdict: ...... Sliders are better than default for me but may not resolve the straight line drive issue for more skilled users.

The ultimate take aways from my post is that I played an entire game attempting straight line drives (really played two entire games). While it did not always work, it still works most of the time and leaves the user feeling as if any body can just get to the basket if necessary(ex: Deyonta Davis).

At this point I'm just adding to the discussion for the sake of resolution. I know this defense is by design, I've already made my videos about it before I ever saw this thread. For some people, this will bother them to no end. For others it's no bother at all.

On the other hand sliders are not going to provide the ultimate solution because this is an in-game mechanic that is meant to be in the game no matter what. That was the choice made by 2K. At this point I think the only real solutions for anyone who genuinely want this changed is to:

Request a Patch
Make videos about the issue
Make videos pointing out how 2K may have gotten defense right / attempt to recreate the same situations in past iterations of the game.
See if any devs have offered / or willing to offer insight about why this specific mechanic was allowed to be in game.


It seems to me that most of the steps above are being taken in this thread. I think everyone here has to keep in mind that everyone has different motives in mind when playing this game. Some want true to life sim, some just want an enjoyable basketball experience.
I can't win every game doing straight line drives, so personally I can live with using a slider set to provide minimal alleviation of the issue.
Still we have to acknowledge that this issue is real and does take away from the realism or sim aspect of the game.

and then you go into sliders at the very begining of the video during a game

Sticky, these are your sliders. I loaded them the way you wanted me to, I didn't touch them when I was showing them on the video. I just went into them.

That gameplay is using your sliders. What is going on? We all have the same game, what's with being so adamant about standing up for this issue? This thread is great for feedback, I am sure Andrew has shared it. That's the point of this thread.

Some of you are acting like I want the game to play like this.. really? I drop $60 and spend half my life on this forum just to make up stuff about the game? I post videos and try every slider imaginable just so I can say "AH HA! SEE!!??". I absolutely was hyped for this game, pumped beyond belief.

I am hoping that a patch does happen to curve this issue.

I may be late to this conversation and I've only read a quarter of the posts - but this hip ride thing is easily the most apparent in the team practice gym if you choose the Pick and Roll drill. Instead of rubbing your man off the pick your teammate sets, go to the right (on the opposite side). You will blast right past the cpu defender. I know. Cause I've done it 1000x in order to get my HOF Dimer badge. My guy is 97 speed, 97 accel: if you angle the drive right, the defender will not even touch you. Most of the time though, he provides token slowdown and you get that hip ride animation for half a sec before you fully blast past him. This is on all difficulty levels.

With that said, the defense this year seems to be both too easy AND too difficult - if that is possible. Let me explain.

Easy

1) You can blast past your cpu defender just with turbo.

Hard

1) The cpu help defenders kinda play zone and come over really quickly. But they also recover super-quickly to their assigned matchup. So you can't do much. If you drive, you're driving into a crowd. But then you pass and they still get a solid challenge on your teammate. What's more, your teammates are idiots who don't go to open spots. They'll stand there like fools to allow the help defense to recover on them.

2) The cpu defenders NEVER bite on my pump fakes or dribble moves. I've watched youtube videos of people with gold ankle breaker who cannot shake their defenders.

3) Driving into a crowd drops your ball handling to 0. My 99 guy loses the ball every time I go into a crowd, even if only for half a sec. This never happened this frequently in 2K17.


It's very unrealistic. Feels like you're playing against a computer that knows your every move. Try to watch the cpu v cpu. Each shot is challenged. There are no fast breaks or good one on one isolations. Because they're impossible when the left hand knows what the right is about to do. 2K needs to build more human tendencies into the cpu. Like bad defenders need to bite on ball fakes more or gamble more on D.

Last edited by JWL3 on Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

I may be late to this conversation and I've only read a quarter of the posts - but this hip ride thing is easily the most apparent in the team practice gym if you choose the Pick and Roll drill. Instead of rubbing your man off the pick your teammate sets, go to the right (on the opposite side). You will blast right past the cpu defender. I know. Cause I've done it 1000x in order to get my HOF Dimer badge. My guy is 97 speed, 97 accel: if you angle the drive right, the defender will not even touch you. Most of the time though, he provides token slowdown and you get that hip ride animation for half a sec before you fully blast past him. This is on all difficulty levels.

With that said, the defense this year seems to be both too easy AND too difficult - if that is possible. Let me explain.

Easy

1) You can blast past your cpu defender just with turbo.

Hard

1) The cpu help defenders come kinda play zone and come over really quickly. But they also recover super quickly to their assigned matchup. So you can't do much. If you drive, you're driving into a crowd. But then you pass and they still get a solid challenge on your teammate. What's more, your teammates are idiots who don't go to open spots. They'll stand there like fools to allow the help defense to recover on them.

2) The cpu defenders NEVER bite on my pump fakes or dribble moves. I've watched youtube videos of people with gold ankle breaker who cannot shake their defenders.

3) Driving into a crowd drops your ball handling to 0. My 99 guy loses the ball every time I go into a crowd, even if only for half a sec. This never happened this frequently in 2K17


It's very unrealistic. Feels like you're playing against a computer that knows your every move. Try to watch the cpu v cpu. Each shot is challenged. There are no fast breaks or good one on one isolations. Because they're impossible when the left hand knows what the right is about to do.

Its not the most apparent in team practice, its the same in any game. That is what my video demonstrates, that is a regular game of my just running to the hoop. It's apparent, period.

Its not the most apparent in team practice, its the same in any game. That is what my video demonstrates, that is a regular game of my just running to the hoop. It's apparent, period.

True, but for non-believers who want to re-create it for themselves, the best way is to pick that drill. And do what I said 100x in a row. I'm actually thankful for that bad D. Cause I'd never have gotten my HOF dimer badge that easily without that cheese.

I didn't touch them when I was showing them on the video. I just went into them.

that's the problem - i suppose -

FYI to Sticky and others as well.

I posted those videos as "unlisted", not "public". Meaning only people that have the link or access the video here can view. I am not doing videos to call anybody out, as in, if I post a video of Shadys sliders, it will also not be a public video.

As stated prior, Andrew does send our feedback to 2K, and that is my purpose with this thread. To shed light on this issue with dialogue and videos, to make sure it's know how bad the issue is, and hope for a fix this year or next year's game. Hoping that this thread puts it on the radar for those who were unaware of how much of a glaring issue it really is.

Basketball video gaming is a huge part of my life, I praise the good parts of games, but at the same time I shed light on the issues I believe the games have. For me, this issue is absolutely game breaking. It makes every player feel the same, it makes it so strategy and dribble moves don't matter, it's a game killer.

It's a mixed bag in here. We have some who completely agree that it's broken, we have some who slightly agree, some who consider it a "break" in my game, some who think it's acceptable because of what they went through last year with 2K17, some who prefer 2K17. It's literally all over the place.

But one thing you can't deny, my video of raw gameplay with default HOF and different slider sets, that is actually happening. It's not rigged, it's literally happening. I am proving in those videos that you can just throw strategy out the door, throw dribble moves out the door, and just run by anyone with most anyone basically every time. That can not be debated, it is literally playing on those videos.

I have tried ramping up the CPU defense basically at complete max, I've tried slowing my players down, I've tried so many sliders tweaks, and I can just continue to run by my guy. It's a major, major problem.

[Dee4Three]

I didn't touch them when I was showing them on the video. I just went into them.

that's the problem - i suppose -

Sticky, me going into the sliders screen during the game and not touching anything does not make the sliders invalid. That makes no sense. That video is with your sliders, we can move forward on that now.

Last edited by Dee4Three on Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

For those who missed this last year, this was a thread I created when NBA 2K17 was released. Because I backed up my .exe, this is the game I play. This was before they patched the game so many times and destroyed the gameplay.

Why am I sharing this? to show that it's not all about negativity, I have absolutely praised the good things when they deserved it. I loved 2K17 when it was released, absolutely loved it. I would have done the exact same thing with 2K18 if I thought it deserved it, it absolutely does not in my opinion.

I also believe that if NBA 2K17 hadn't been crippled patch wise, many of those who wanted to move on so bad wouldn't have wanted to at the same level (Unless they were really interested in the roster update, if that's what mattered the most).

I LOVE THIS GAME - Praise thread

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:44 pm

Hi,

Praise thread. I feel like 2k finally got the gameplay right. After 10-15 hours of gameplay, I can honestly say I love this game. Here is my praise:

- Players feel lighter, less foot planting. You can actually rotate a guy on defense without feeling like you are stuck in the mud.
- The acceleration is back (PLEASE DONT TAKE IT OUT ON A PATCH!). You can make a move and actually have a quick first step with players like Iverson/Kobe/Kyrie/Westbrook etc. You can get a first step on a guy and he will be stuck on your side and ride you to the hoop, just like in real life.
- The players speed is well adjusted. I like the way the game flows, the players move up and down the floor nicely.
- Ball movement is faster. No more lobbed, slow passes. I feel like I can swing the ball around the perimeter like in real life.
- The dribbling... at first I was unsure.. but I love it. Its like a mixture of 2k14 and 2k16, which is what was needed. When you put a combo of moves together and break someone down, it feels amazing. I hope no patches change this...
- The spin move (spin and gather by double tapping x on an xbox 360 controller) is back and it feels amazing.... no more colliding with the air, or being stopped by a PG when you are using a bigger man. PLEASE DONT PATCH THIS OUT!
- Post game feels smooth. I feel like my moves have meaning, and nothing is predetermined. One of the things I disliked about NBA 2k16 was predetermined drives/moves/fouls. This game got it right almost 100%
- Graphics - Finally that 2k14 next gen global feel.. Even though the players have the same models, the lighting makes the game feel more alive. I actually enjoy watching replays in NBA 2k17
- Cyberface improvements. David Robinson, Bill Russell, Pete Maravich, Jerry West, Allen Iverson, Dennis Rodman... etc etc... Just wow. Great updates!
- Modding (for PC users). it seems they used the same file structure as last year, and that we will be able to hit the ground running earlier than ever!
- Attributes: editing attributes from the main team screen is awesome, it makes things a lot easier. Also, adding the additional badges like "Mid Range Deadeye" was perfect for players like Garnett/Barkley in their primes.
- New game layout is amazing, I like the lighter more alive look
- Being able to fire and hire coaches, and view coaches like players (Coaches even have badges) in roster editing is awesome. I made Kevin McHale the coach of my legends team.
- The Additional commentary of Aldridge and Webber is great, love the attention to detail
- I like how many adjustments you can make during timeouts

It's not a perfect game. But it is the best next gen 2k yet in my opinion. This is the first time I can say that I will switch, and switch with comfort.

Great job 2k!

This is on that same thread.

Re: I LOVE THIS GAME - Praise thread

Postby Dee4Three on Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:23 am

TGsoGood wrote:
I thought the skinny models would bother me more but when I play i dont really notice until a close up. Maybe it depends on the camera angle.

I have been playing 2k14 pc for last 3 years. I just got 2k16 2 weeks ago and now after playing 2k17.... I am very happy. This is the game I imagined as a kid. So many small details. I love the feel and pace of the game and I've only had 2 hours of real gameplay but this feels alot better than 2k16 to me. Maybe I love it because I played and modded 2k14 for sooooo long.
In any case I cant wait to wake up and try some more gameplay

Yeah, I finally feel comfortable switching. They listened to us about a lot of the gameplay complaints and made adjustments.

Another one of my posts

NBA 2K17 - The first year reaching it's potential in the next gen era

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:32 am

Hi all,

I wanted to get your thoughts on this.

Before this game, NBA 2K14 for XBOX1 and PS4 had the best gameplay. What hindered that game was weak gameplay modes (Couldn't even play a two player association), weak roster editing, and a lousy interface (To go with terrible online support). 2K15 and 2K16 were slow, sluggish, with a lot of bugs/cheese.

I feel like this is the turning point for the franchise with next gen graphics. The dribbling mechanics feel better than ever, the customization has reached a peak that nobody ever dreamed of back in the day, the lighting is better, the game is smoother. It is not a perfect game, but this game reminds me of when we all turned on NBA 2K9 for the xbox360/PS4 (which I think was also the 3rd game for that gen). 2K9 was the turning point, and it kept getting even better (or atleast not getting worse) after that.

I am thoroughly impressed with the product 2k put out this year. The gameplay (to me) is what matters the most. And this year, it's really fun.

For PC users, this is also the first year I have seen THIS MUCH participation in modding since 2k14. Rosters/CF's/Courts/Jerseys etc are all being worked on daily.

Your thoughts?

And... AFTER the patches.

Beyond Frustrated with NBA 2k17 - Anybody??!

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:10 pm

Does anybody else think that all these patches (I play on PC) has crippled the game? When it first came out, it felt mostly different than 2k16, but now it feels very much the same. I am really frustrated with all the body steals/body blocks, Unrealistic forced fouls, strange defensive animations where everybody seems to be losing their guy (Its horrible, the defense is absurd in this game), the unrealistic pace, the unrealistic bumping, protected shots when nobody is really in your space.

I'm pretty fed up, and it has interfered with my modding as well, just because I'm so frustrated with the game.

The gameplay patching elements DO NOT HELP, they are garbage. I am starting to wonder if the 2k dev team (who work on the animations/gameplay) understand the game of basketball fully. You can't possibly see the defense played on any possession and call it realistic, you can't possibly see these wild protected shots and think they are realistic, you can't possibly see all the excessive bumping (animation stopped for like 2 seconds) as realistic, you can't possibly think that after calling a play, it taking like 8-10 seconds for the players to start actually running it is realistic, you cant possibly think the ball yo-yoing in front of a player when his progress is impeded is realistic, you can't possibly think all these easy body steals and body blocks are realistic, you can't possibly think that the CPU double teams that leave people WIDE OPEN for layups all the time is realistic, you can't possibly think the running a 2 on 1 or 3 on 1 fastbreak in this game is realistic (your CPU player will fade out to the three almost every time instead of going in for the layup), you cant possibly think that these slow motion layups/dunks are realistic, you can't possibly think that the deathly slow spin moves and other moves are realistic (NOBODY moves even close to that slow in real life, in fact its impossible), you cant possibly think giving Nick Van Exel Shawn Marions free throw is realistic, You cant possibly think that copying all of Lebrons Signatures to Jr Rider is realistic, you can't possibly think that centers/PF's during a sim season get like 5 assists and 2 steals in 82 games is realistic, you can't possibly think that making the same mistake giving Charles Smiths portrait to Matt Bullard is realistic, you can't possibly think giving Walt Williams Adrian Griffins Portrait is realistic.

The MOST IMPORTANT aspect of any sports game, is the flow. That is flows like real life. The pace. Atleast when playing NBA 2k9, NBA 2k11, NBA 2k13 and NBA 2k14, we had the realistic pace of the NBA. The players looked and played like athletes. Overall, the defense was sound, overall, the players moved up and down the court at a realistic pace. Everything that I have said above ruins THE FLOW of the game. Players celebrating after a made hoop (can't get them out of the animation) for like 5-6 seconds while the player they are defending goes all the way up the court for an easy score (because nobody helps obviously). Ive had this happen to me MANY times, especially at the end of games when a big shot is made (Because the players celebrates after). You call that realistic 2k? If that happens ONCE it can completely ruin a game for the user. Now put that together with all of the other frustrations I mentioned above.

I am actually really hoping NBA LIVE puts out a realistic product for NBA LIVE 18. I am beyond frustrated.

Any 2k dev team (who makes decisions on the gameplay) want to come on here and tell us what the hell is going on? Every single thing I mention above (and some I left out), happen every single game to completely butcher the experience. I doubt someone from 2k DEV would come on the forums to address this. But all of those things about dramatically impact the flow (minus the simming stats issue). I don't want to hear that the system can only do certain things. You have proven in the past the system certainly can make a realistic flow, realistic basketball sim. This is NOT realistic by any means. I take a pull up with CJ McCollum, and my defender is a couple feet off me, and he goes into a protected shot that doesn't even hit rim. WHAT? NBA Players make those shots ALL THE TIME, nvm CJ McCollum being a very good shooter. This happens all the time during games.

I could go on and on. I am hoping others get upset like I am, maybe if enough of us talk about it and complain, a difference can be made. I want to point out, Is stood up for this game when it first came out. The game feels completely broken now.

This thread is interesting because it shows cognitive dissonance. No matter the proof - videos, showing the sliders - the people who think this is fine or that it can be fixed with sliders won't relent. They change the subject, claim some technical detail is wrong (you have to load the sliders only with your left hand while standing on your head), ignore the evidence, question the motives. They do whatever it takes to maintain their reality - that the game isn't fundamentally broken.

Anyone who isn't pretending the emperor has a great new set of clothes realizes that this issue destroys the game. Getting around defenders 100% of the time without making a move, and the fact that you can do it while in control of even the slowest players, is a game breaker. There is no game. Point stick to the basket, when player is under basket hit shot button. That's not basketball, that's not a fun game.

In reality, this is the equivalent of basketball Jesus for the NBA series a few years ago. This is a fundamental, core flaw that makes the game unplayable, destroys any play value.

My reality is that i play on 2K since 2K10 so i think i know how to play on 2K. And i dont dare to tell you all the bb games i played before 2K
Believe me or not, but i can't drive on each possession to the basket, even more with a slowest player.

I also dont deny there's a problem.
But on next gen, it's the funniest 2K for me on most of the part of the gameplay.

So fjccommish, we can debate, we can agree or disagree, but i dont think we need a judge or a narrator even if you're an old member.

You weren't born when I started playing games - the first video game I played ran on an oscilloscope. I played games for which I had to type my moves onto a punch card then wait for the print out to see the results. I lived on a bus for entire summers, traveling the country while managing sports video game tournaments. I took on all challengers in NBA Live, and a guy once hit me with a chair while I was beating his friend. Why? Because he saw it on wrestling on TV. BTW, I still won the game.

I am not your judge. I'm merely stating the reality of this situation.

I am proving in those videos that you can just throw strategy out the door, throw dribble moves out the door, and just run by anyone with most anyone basically every time.

Yup. In the drills and in game, I finesse and dance and prance. And the cpu D falls for none of it. But if I straight up charge right in, score every time.

It's worse if your strength rating is higher than the defender.