Demo Impressions Thread

I've not had the time to play the demo that I have in recent years but after a couple of weeks playing here and there I really don't see any major improvement from nba live 16 other than graphics and they changed a few animations. The shooting feels robotic the player movement feels robotic still.

I also don't like how they have changed the buttons to feel a little 2kish, that's one thing about Live that I used to like.

Also I didn't like the way they forced me to start play "The One" before I could play the cavs/Warriors game, if and when I play that game mode should choice not compulsory and have to sit through the many cutscreens

The buttons are almost identical to 2K (Vanilla buttons), even fancy pass and alley-oop are the same now. Dribbling is a bit different though overall.

And yes, the animations that I've been talking about is the biggest issue with the gameplay, the robotic animations you speak of (And the input lag). The good thing is: They are sending this feedback to EA Sports, hopefully they can do something about it. If it's about saving RAM like King is saying, I think that's a lame excuse, considering other sports games can pull off smooth animations while maintaining a stable FPS. Also, on consoles.. not many people really care of the cutscenes are a bit choppy, they always are on consoles. They are on Madden 18.

I think they need to fix that feel and look, especially shooting the ball. If they can do this, the game will be a lot more appealing and playable.

its not about just having so called "smooth animations" while maintaining a stable FPS. It's about the players foot planting mechanics and not sliding all over the court on offense or defense. this happens a lot on 2k. which is weird that we are in year 2017 and guys are still ice skating a ton. But that usually happens because its too much information to process with not enough memory to do it so something gets left on the cutting board, like that players foot planting on the ground on every step, not every 3rd step. This gives you that feel of not being in control. This is why I have that possible theory that EA may be saving on ram by cutting the animation sequences down from say 6 steps to 4 steps(the cut is between 3 and 5 there's that silly looking hitch since its missing those middle to ending steps. They think its not that bad. We know otherwise. lol. But doing this frees up ram, processing power. now that power could go to make sure the players feet touch the hardwood each time. making it more responsive while moving around pre shoot, pre layup, or on defense. It is a known fact just moving around the court with your guy with no ball is more controllable in Live vs 2k.

Like you said, we know better (about how it feels/looks). Hopefully they find some way to address it.

You think these people will buy? Or give the game a chance? No. The problem is not just the feel that people talk about, it's the visuals as well. The way the players move around the court. You can't get more people to try the game, if people think the gameplay looks out of whack and wont even buy the game or try the demo. People are viewing this game on youtube by the thousands, and a good majority are turned off because of the way the gameplay looks.

"This gameplay look jus like that it came from Nba Live Mobile app i downloaded"

"Thats why EA wont let 2k make a football game. THEY KNOW 2K GOING TO MAKE MADDEN LOOK TRASH LIKE THIS!!"

"Lol it looks like it plays like an arcade game"

"You lame ass Live fanboys need to stop defending this piece of shit game. It's shitty!"

"2 years and this is what they came up with?"

"Body models, movement, gameplay all looks like SHIT. I can't believe EA still can't get it together, just give up....honestly"

"You are so damn right.the movement body models...remind me of fifa 17,its the same awful shit omfgg cant believe how bad ea are"

"haha look shit , its look like playing phone graphics "

"This gameplay is always stiff when is it going to play and feel fluid like 2k?"

"Even if this game was $5 I'm still not buying it. Why would I spend time playing a shitty ass game?"

"I wouldnt play this shit for free"


These quoted comments actually only make the point that there are a lot of 2k fan boys running around ready to hate on anything that isnt 2k. They dont want another option. They only want 2k to be successful. If they another game does anything as good as or better than 2k, they start to feel threatened on a personal level. So they will go out of their way to test out a game they know they will hate just to hate on it and report back to the internets about how much they think the game sucks. not being honest that they went into it assuming the game would suck and hoping it would suck because they are 2k fanboys. there's a difference between liking a game for what it does right vs being a fan boy. I play with a fanboy all the time. He told me just last night "I dont care what Live does.. It will never be good." That type of logic is flawed and its false. If they did the right things. it could catch up to 2k and actually surpass it. People forget. LIve was the #1 basketball game for YEARSSSSSS. And it was the #1 game when there were 2+ other options at the time. 2k is #1 among not much competition. You could say they got rid of their comp by being so good or we can say the comp just died down and there is no real money in trying to infiltrate the bball video game market as a 2nd or 3rd option.

Those quotes are from people just like the guy i play with. No matter what live produced, they would STILL swear it was terrible. Just on the strength it was not 2k. if you took off the live cover and replaced it with 2k. they would swear it was ground breaking.

Just like people talked about how groundbreaking the shooting and layup control for 2k17 with the meter for both. and how the direction you moved it in made a difference. all the 2k fans that hated nba elite 11 for implementing that very same setup on the controls. loved it with 2k17 just because 2k did it. There are certain critics that are legit and are not a hate message.

But while you're finding those quotes. I also found these.

View Poll Results: After Playing the Demo, Where Are You At?
Definitely Buying 103 43.28%
Leaning Towards Buying 67 28.15%
Leaning Towards Not Buying 34 14.29%
Definitely Not Buying 34 14.29%

^That's a polls someone put it on another site. And this site is by far a PRO 2K site. this site is known for banning people who talk about 2k's flaws a bit to harshly since their devs are always on that board lurking around for information on what the people would like to see in their game.



Thats rag doll physics in the game. not a canned animation. only physics like that would allow for rose's arm to go over and around curry's arm like that. in 2k that arm would've miraculously blocked the ball with its forearm or it would've gone THRU curry's body for a no call.

Look at old man matt barnes at venice beach. looks just like him.



I posted this video here already. but I'll post it again. These are people posting these polls, videos, images. They think live is more realistic in some aspects.

phpBB [video]

watch this video
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/CWBz%20Buckeye/video/35326437


^^^not mines another guy from another forum talking about how realistic nba live is. Watch it from the 00:15 second mark til the end. Watch that Live loose ball after I think klay tips it.

That can't happen in 2k right now. If that pass is tipped that far out. your guy will chase after it. and depending on badges, etc. some guy will dive on the ground possibly sliding a mile to pick it up even though you were closer to it but 2k will not allow you to pick it up in that scenario's sequence depending on guys badges that are somewhat close to you. not closer to the ball. but close to you. a live loose ball makes any game more realistic.


here's some other guys comments talking about the realism and what he likes vs 2k.

Some guys gettin a bit ruffled in here but anyways.. Lets get back on track.

For me, there is definitely some areas Live is excelling in, I don't know if its realism or just another representation, or even if its just that they are doing things differently and im so used to the other game.

I've gone back and compared and played same teams similar settings a few times now just to see if its my mind playing tricks on me but each time ive come out feeling there are areas where Live wins and obviously areas where the reigning champ wins.

Some areas im loving in Live:

Fluidity of fast breaks - both user and cpu, as well as the way guys kick to the corner 3 on the break and the way they play their lanes properly.

Not Getting Bumped as much when sprinting - Everyone knows that 2k stalwart of getting freaking bumped almost every fast break. I love that in Live it is mostly gone and i can actually get out and RUN with guys.

Superstars are Scary - Guys in Live like Lebron/Steph give me some fear playing against them as they are as unstoppable as they should be. And the other way round when playing with them i feel like im playing with an NBA superstar, borderline unstoppable until the Help D (correctly) rotates over etc.. Its night and day.

Auto Fouls In The Paint Don't Exist - Probably from hundreds of hours in 2K but there are some areas where if you go in the paint and try shoot it does that stupid foul animation every time. So glad this hasn't shown up in Live yet..

Those are a few of the thing im finding more "realistic" i guess. As a huge 2K fan i can't wait to see what they come up with but damn its good to see whats going on over here.

and another person

I appreciate the back and forth but after this last comment you have lost some credibility man. The fast breaks in this game are a million times better than the other game, especially since the update. The AI is just great and you might not be seeing the play develop quickly enough but they always happen organically and it never feels BS. I get so many quick hitters for transition 3s, or occasional steals for Lebron hammers it just feels so real. In the other game it is a literal bs forced fast break half of every play because your center refuses to run back fast enough or your pg decides to wonder off the side of the court instead of picking up his man or the player that gets back first just runs straight underneath the basket and plant there no matter who is coming down on the break. I can't even fathom your comparison in this regard. I didn't even mention how when you are out ahead of the break literally any player on the court has the ability to run you down and magically stop/slow you up from some magical force field.
For all this running right through players you talk about I see very little evidence of clipping, way less than that other game where the ball is routinely passing through someone's limb and even torso at times. The ball might not be very tangible and you have a point there but the game does a great job of interactions so I don't even notice that as a problem right now and I play this thing like crazy. However you can steal the ball when it mimics real world situation frequently. Such as running up on a player from behind and pushing the steal on the ball side will poke it loose. Or if they cross to the side your on into you while you push steal with a good defender you will get the pick. It actually feels quite natural. I still think you are arguing here way more than playing this or 2k for that matter with this last post.

and this last back and forth between two posters. but remember what I said about live even when it might not look as good some of us would rather be free than look cute. if we had to choose between the two. obviously we would like both pretty and freedom.

watch this video and then read the comments. I'm with the other guy. this is your fault as the player for not choose the right move after you crossed curry over. you hesitated. and I bet you I know why. you're so use to 2k over dribbling mechanics to blow by guys or get that ankle breaker animation to hit your defender. that you over dribble and over do the move. you cross guys up and keep doing moves when you should just cross and bam go. stop touching the right stick completely.

https://streamable.com/y48ml

Quote:
Originally Posted

Do instances like this happen on levels below superstar?

https://streamable.com/y48ml
--------------
Response Post

im not refuting the "sucked in animation" claim, but it looks like kyrie couldve blown by him on that last long cross right but hesitated and allowed curry to reposition?

i do see the "canned" stuff more against the AI than playing against humans. but i feel like i can break out of them. doesnt mean it will look pretty but i dont feel trapped

double post

Last edited by kingpnp on Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

and notice the above posts all explain themselves in detail, some with video evidence on what they like about the game and why. Notice the quotes you have are all "this game sucks. I hate this game...2k is better."
Those are fanboy comments vs actual legit criticism.

and notice the above posts all explain themselves in detail, some with video evidence on what they like about the game and why. Notice the quotes you have are all "this game sucks. I hate this game...2k is better."
Those are fanboy comments vs actual legit criticism.

Dude, I agree. Legit criticism on both sides, just like on this thread. We have been going back and forth, but we have had positives and negatives, in detail... explained.

But, we are talking about getting Live to the next level. That's what we need to focus on, the things I have discussed need to be tweaked or fixed before they get to that point. We are talking about what will help Live get sales, make that first impression. What will make it more visually appealing, as well as feel more appealing.

That's all, I actually think this has been a great thread, a lot of good conversation. Let's make Live the best it can be, and keep getting that feedback to EA.

I'm seriously considering pre-ordering to get the discount. 2K18 seems to have fixed at least some of my complaints, and Live 18 seems to be far from perfect, but still...

Also,
#MakeNbaLiveAgain

I'm seriously considering pre-ordering to get the discount. 2K18 seems to have fixed at least some of my complaints, and Live 18 seems to be far from perfect, but still...

Also,
#MakeNbaLiveAgain

2k always fixes some of the issues, then the following patches unfix them and turn the game back into the previous version. Happens every year which is why I'm not buying it.

I'm seriously considering pre-ordering to get the discount. 2K18 seems to have fixed at least some of my complaints, and Live 18 seems to be far from perfect, but still...

Also,
#MakeNbaLiveAgain

2k always fixes some of the issues, then the following patches unfix them and turn the game back into the previous version. Happens every year which is why I'm not buying it.

I'm fairly confident that they will not roll back the MyPlayer character customization options for example.

However, there is a thread as a reminder to backup the 2K18's exe file for each patch (or the whole thing if you feel like it).
Some players confirmed that this rolled back the gameplay changes and allowed them to choose version they liked the most.

I'm seriously considering pre-ordering to get the discount. 2K18 seems to have fixed at least some of my complaints, and Live 18 seems to be far from perfect, but still...

Also,
#MakeNbaLiveAgain

2k always fixes some of the issues, then the following patches unfix them and turn the game back into the previous version. Happens every year which is why I'm not buying it.

I'm fairly confident that they will not roll back the MyPlayer character customization options for example.

However, there is a thread as a reminder to backup the 2K18's exe file for each patch (or the whole thing if you feel like it).
Some players confirmed that this rolled back the gameplay changes and allowed them to choose version they liked the most.

are you talking about the PC version only? or give people a choice to roll back or stay with certain versions they choose on the consoles also?

I know if you play online thats not possible. You can't have two different versions of the game and it worked while playing online. It needs to be compatible. now granted there's a way they could get around that. but it would open up other issues. how is it that someone has an easier setup for hitting jumper while someone has easier makes with inside scoring as an example all due to their versions of the game? that wont work well. or how am I going to have completely different sliders online than my opponent? again, that wont work well. what if they take out a glitch or three they have found. but i have the old version with the glitches. you can't play another human online with the glitch version vs the fixed version. that wont work either.

Yeah, PC only, and offline modes only.

I'm seriously considering pre-ordering to get the discount. 2K18 seems to have fixed at least some of my complaints, and Live 18 seems to be far from perfect, but still...

Also,
#MakeNbaLiveAgain

2k always fixes some of the issues, then the following patches unfix them and turn the game back into the previous version. Happens every year which is why I'm not buying it.

I'm fairly confident that they will not roll back the MyPlayer character customization options for example.

However, there is a thread as a reminder to backup the 2K18's exe file for each patch (or the whole thing if you feel like it).
Some players confirmed that this rolled back the gameplay changes and allowed them to choose version they liked the most.

I'm talking about the gameplay. Character customization isn't very important to me. How the game plays is.

I also am using the original .exe file and am one of those who said it makes a big difference. The fact I have to resort to using it speaks to how bad the game progressively gets. I may be weird, but I tend to expect patches and updates to improve things, not make things go backwards.

I'm seriously considering pre-ordering to get the discount. 2K18 seems to have fixed at least some of my complaints, and Live 18 seems to be far from perfect, but still...

Also,
#MakeNbaLiveAgain

2k always fixes some of the issues, then the following patches unfix them and turn the game back into the previous version. Happens every year which is why I'm not buying it.

I'm fairly confident that they will not roll back the MyPlayer character customization options for example.

However, there is a thread as a reminder to backup the 2K18's exe file for each patch (or the whole thing if you feel like it).
Some players confirmed that this rolled back the gameplay changes and allowed them to choose version they liked the most.

I'm talking about the gameplay. Character customization isn't very important to me. How the game plays is.

I also am using the original .exe file and am one of those who said it makes a big difference. The fact I have to resort to using it speaks to how bad the game progressively gets. I may be weird, but I tend to expect patches and updates to improve things, not make things go backwards.

My biggest problem with 2K is the patching system.

They had about 8 or 9 patches in a 2-3 month span, and all the patches did was bog the game down, and create more issues. I understand that some of it was to curve the complaints about "Cheesing" In MyPark, etc... but it obliterates the offline modes. It makes them not fun.

If I hadn't been able to return to an old .exe., I would have put down 2K17. NBA 2K17 at first release, and after the first patch, are the best versions of the game. It's before it got completely changed by excessive patching.

I've been playing more of the demo with Patch 1.04 installed. Moving without the ball tends to be OK, but one of the biggest issues for me - aside from some framerate issues - is that some animations are really slow, while others are very fast. It contributes to the awkwardness both visually and on the sticks. When everything plays out at the same speed, say in an instant replay, it looks a lot better. However, there are issues with certain animations seeming to play out in slow motion, like when I got hit by a pick and crumpled to the court, and others that play out too fast, like some of the rebounding animations.

It plays a little better with a maxed out speed slider, but the slow motion animations are still a killer. Again, it's more when I have the ball rather than moving around without it.

Moving without the ball trying to get open is a little difficult too. A lot of the animations have your guy looking at the ball and not actively trying to get open. What happened to the off ball controls from 15 or 16 where you could try to get open?

Playing all these challenges has been frustrating between getting stuck on a team with all guards and then having to go against these overrated created players who never miss teamed up with nba all stars

Going into next month's release of nba live 18 after playing the demo more and checking out Live 18 news I kind of feel like this is a revamped nba live 16 where instead of focusing on Pro-am it's now The One/The League with very little mention of the nba content such as dynasty mode and also roster management or am I missing something?

I think that's a fair statement. The League is obviously a big part of The One, but aside from that, we haven't heard much about the NBA side of things.

Anyone else notice more fouls are being called? This is obviously in Play Now where I spend the most time on.

Also, I think some people mentioned having issues with pulling off spin moves. This video might help.

phpBB [video]

I've been experimenting with the sliders, and Its so hard to see what's broken and whats not. So basically, I've turned up all the sliders to 100, and turned a few down, like steals, and blocks. I put the 3pt shooting down to zero in one, and earlier today, I turned all the shooting sliders down to 0. The game played pretty well, what bothers me is that the CPU will pull up from anywhere behind the arc and it's mad annoying. When I turned all the shooting sliders down to 0, the CPU actually had some methodical moments on offense and defense, but other times, they would come down and jack up threes, it's mind boggling even though the probability of making the shot is set at 0.

One thing I noticed is that when you set the shooting sliders to 0, the green light is important, if you don't hit that green, you're not making the shot. I played a game on Superstar with the same settings, and the game was close, but then the CPU (Cleveland at home) just went on a crazy 14-0 run on me, and I couldn't recover. The problem is, the CPU was raining threes down like crazy. They had an A-hole mentality, I was like man, this is heartbreaking LMAO.

I've been experimenting with the sliders, and Its so hard to see what's broken and whats not. So basically, I've turned up all the sliders to 100, and turned a few down, like steals, and blocks. I put the 3pt shooting down to zero in one, and earlier today, I turned all the shooting sliders down to 0. The game played pretty well, what bothers me is that the CPU will pull up from anywhere behind the arc and it's mad annoying. When I turned all the shooting sliders down to 0, the CPU actually had some methodical moments on offense and defense, but other times, they would come down and jack up threes, it's mind boggling even though the probability of making the shot is set at 0.

One thing I noticed is that when you set the shooting sliders to 0, the green light is important, if you don't hit that green, you're not making the shot. I played a game on Superstar with the same settings, and the game was close, but then the CPU (Cleveland at home) just went on a crazy 14-0 run on me, and I couldn't recover. The problem is, the CPU was raining threes down like crazy. They had an A-hole mentality, I was like man, this is heartbreaking LMAO.

I've been playing the game with default sliders on All-Star and I find it enjoyable enough to not have to mess with sliders. Of course, gameplay preference is purely subjective.

I've been experimenting with the sliders, and Its so hard to see what's broken and whats not. So basically, I've turned up all the sliders to 100, and turned a few down, like steals, and blocks. I put the 3pt shooting down to zero in one, and earlier today, I turned all the shooting sliders down to 0. The game played pretty well, what bothers me is that the CPU will pull up from anywhere behind the arc and it's mad annoying. When I turned all the shooting sliders down to 0, the CPU actually had some methodical moments on offense and defense, but other times, they would come down and jack up threes, it's mind boggling even though the probability of making the shot is set at 0.

One thing I noticed is that when you set the shooting sliders to 0, the green light is important, if you don't hit that green, you're not making the shot. I played a game on Superstar with the same settings, and the game was close, but then the CPU (Cleveland at home) just went on a crazy 14-0 run on me, and I couldn't recover. The problem is, the CPU was raining threes down like crazy. They had an A-hole mentality, I was like man, this is heartbreaking LMAO.

I've been playing the game with default sliders on All-Star and I find it enjoyable enough to not have to mess with sliders. Of course, gameplay preference is purely subjective.

I know, I should try it some time lol

I played Play Now on Pro with no changes to the sliders and I had no problems with it. I thought it played pretty well.

Please watch the video below. Curious to hear from the community if this is something you can ignore and forget. Me? I can't accept it.I don't care that I made the pass with Tristan Thompson. The defender shouldn't have been able to make the steal at the expense of clipping.

phpBB [video]

On a positive note, check out this game winning buzzer beater I made with LBJ.

phpBB [video]

Totally fair criticism. I hate it when cheesy seven footers clip through me to block dunks in 2K Pro-Am in NBA 2K17, and I hate to see it rear its head in the NBA Live 18 demo as well.

Buzzer beater was cool, though.

Please watch the video below. Curious to hear from the community if this is something you can ignore and forget. Me? I can't accept it.I don't care that I made the pass with Tristan Thompson. The defender shouldn't have been able to make the steal at the expense of clipping.

phpBB [video]

On a positive note, check out this game winning buzzer beater I made with LBJ.

Yep I agree i hate that. it does it in 2k all the time. i can't stand it.

But these games keep having these type of problems. I think it has to do with two things. #1 the player models are not full / filled models.

Meaning. underneath the jersey is a model. underneath the layer you see of the player model needs to be solid. Like if you think of it as a statute. a statue is not hollow usually. The clipping occurs. due to the fact its hollow and its not being programmed in as a 100% complete object. Thats why certain parts of the body you touch you can feel its their. and other parts you can't. I remember seeing some older versions of these games and they had a detection system. They used this wrap thing that was wrapped around each player like a toga. toga for the main body, wraps around the arms, etc.

then it became a force field. the same way you can tell theirs a forcefield around the out of bounds line was that for these togas/wraps. they could make the forcefield or toga only so tight to the body model. which is why in earlier games you would see guys hands stopping well before the guy or well before the ball. but things would still occur as if your hands or body touched the guy or the ball. it has gotten a lot better over the years. but it still needs a ton of work.

#2 we've seen rag doll physics in this live demo. they need to add it to all of their limbs and make sure its live all of the time. if you try to jump a pass like that. and end up going THRU the offensive players arm to get the steal. That happens in real life. Then going thru can't mean literally thru. It means you push the guys arm . doing this should trigger a possible foul depending on how much of your body hit his arm and his body. and make the logic sometimey . where there are times you get away with basically molesting the guy by going thru his arm/body and getting that steal and other times even when the defensive guy barely touches the offensive guy. give the offensive guy the foul at times. because thats actually how they call that play. its not 100% cut and dry.

again, to make this possible. all body parts on both players have to be made a full on solid object. but to do that, thats a lot more data that. which will have to be carried in ram while you're playing.

in this way there should not be an issue, except too much ram being used.

Or the other issue could be that the players are solid enough. but the problem hits when the ram/cpu can't keep up with what you're doing vs setting the boundaries. boundaries are the togas the players are wearing that i told you about above. along with the regular out of bounds as a boundary.

if the cpu is a bit too slow or the ram is to full at one moment and didnt get time to refresh and grab some more data. you will go THRU stuff because the cpu/ram doesnt even know its there yet.

Its as if a construction worker is constructing a wall for us every single time we play and the entire time we're playing. thats the key. the construction only stops when we stop playing. yes they can pre load some stuff into ram. but the rest is so ram/data/cpu intensive its going to max out those things at some point before it can refresh itself or dump stuff it doesnt need.

And its probably more of this last issue than what i said above. so there are 3 possibles.

Like i figured, its more the later of what i stated above.

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-clipping-bugs-still-so-common-in-video-games

Steve Theodore, GDC board member. Fmr Director at Bungie (Halo 3), Artist at Valve (Half Life)
Updated Apr 29 · Upvoted by Gage Randall, Founder/Lead Developer at Devious Gamers and Dale Thomas, Computer graphics programmer for over 25 years
Collision checking in game physics is pretty computationally expensive. The expense of the checks scales pretty much linearly with the complexity of the geometry: checking to see if a point is inside or outside of a cube is (more or less) six times as expensive as seeing if it lies above or below a single plane. So almost always the physics representation of the object is much simpler and cruder than the visual representation: Here's an example of some of the different ways you might represent the collision of an odd shape:


The sphere is very cheap: you just check the distance from a point to the center of the sphere. The cube involves 6 checks. The simple hull (3rd from the left) involves a few dozen. The accurate hull probably involves at least 60. All of that is sucking up CPU time you might want elsewhere.

And of course, if you wanted to check a strand of hair realistically, you'd also have to subdivide it into lots of short linear segments and check them all individually as well. Again, that's all CPU cycles you could be spending on more responsive vehicle controls or smarter AI.

Lastly: in the case of characters, particularly, it's pretty common to skip the self-intersection checks altogether. Instead you rely on the animators to supply poses and animations which don't produce bad visual results. However the animators are often working on a generic model with different equipment — or even different proportions! — than you might see at a particular time. They do their best, but frequently they don't know what combination of hair, equipment, and clothing will actually be used in any particular moment in the game. We generally accept a little bit of slop — some clipping, some mismatch between the gesture and the implied weight of their outfit, and maybe some artifacts that happen when different animations are blended together.