Live vs 2K

[Dee4Three]

I want to talk about Live's progress in the basketball gaming market.

This is the most activity I have seen with Live in a long time, and even I am into it more this year. I am not saying Lives sales will even be 5% of 2Ks, but it's about moving the needle more than it has been moved over the last few years.

In my ooinion, these two games have never felt more different. NBA 2k moved to a super fast, arcade style game where the game feels out of control at times, while Live moved to a more SIM approach with a more realistic pace.

I'm curious to know if anybody has the sales numbers from launch day for Live, to compare the numbers to Live 16 launch day sales.

Live still had gameplay fixes needed, they need to smooth it out. It needs roster editing and mode enhancements, but I feel Live moved in the right direction.

Thoughts?

[StyxTx]

I was reading someone else talking about how Live is the arcade type game while 2k isn't. I didn't agree with him. Glad to see someone else feels the same.

I also said in another post that 2k is slowly, with each version, making it so everything will need VC to use. Every year, more and more of the game stuff is being set up so that you have to spend VC. This year the hairstyles? That is over the top and makes it quite obvious what they are doing. Personally, I think they are rip-offs.

It's also getting more and more away from basketball in career. The playing of a game has become secondary to the pathetic story lines and so-called open world crap.

I did not purchase the game this year and don't plan to ever spend another penny on it, but I have been reading, in various forums, what people are saying about it. I know that about 2/3 of the reviews from people on Steam (as of last night) were extremely negative. I just wonder how long it will be before people say enough is enough.

Live isn't perfect, but I don't have to worry about VC for anything and it plays the way I like a game to play. And set on speed 100 it plays well for me.

Here are a few quotes from steam reviews:

DO NOT BUY THIS.
The only thing 2K is good at is defining "Rock Bottom".

The reasons are pretty much the same as 2k17, now add some 1,000 VC HAIRSTYLE to buy and you got yourself 2k18.

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The My Career mode might be the worst ever. The dumb storyline is still there, forced nicknames (FYI no matter what your name is, your nickname is DJ), extra over-the-top personalities, and really long, unskippable cutscenes - but now instead of doing things through a menu, you have to slowly walk around this ridiculous neighborhood to get anything done once the cutscenes are done. Remember when My Career was actually still about playing basketball games and advancing your character in NBA 2k14?

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Pros: The models are better. The graphics are better. Updated Rosters.

Cons: So far this game seems like a much bigger money grab than previously. Everything is locked behind micro-transactions if you do not have the time to grind non-stop. The "Neighboorhood" aspect of the game is useless, and both my gm mode and career mode have been bogged down with un-skippable cutscenes. Create a player is terrible. Optimization Is terrible. Overall gameplay feels slower and more spongey. I really hope that 2k fixes this game soon or Live may have a real chance of taking over as the new standard.

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I need to be 90+ overall to ride a bike???
I PAID 60USD EVERY YEAR and you told me this.

It might got better graphics, better control, better physics engine, better animation......

But mycareer is getting more and more horrible every year.

Last year there was the god damn Justice and the coach.

This year it's on a whole new level.

You got the Neighbourhood, which is basically a waste of time running around for minutes just to buy socks and watching loading animations.

Then, back at the plot, there are an ugly, annoying girlfriend , an idiotic agent, ignorant teammates and the childish ATM waiting for you.

Cut scenes are long, boring and just painful to watch, fot the love of god, when will that girlfriend shut her damn mouth up, jesus, STFU, I play this game to relax and chill but not try to let it get on my nerves.

And then, 2K still tried to charge you with VC after you paid 60. I thought 60 USD per year is already very generous to 2K, but they found out it would be better to rob us after 2K15.

Prelude, 2K day, streaming, giveaways...... 2K been trying so hard to hype gamers up and then deliver this complete sh!t game to them.

I'm out, enough fooling from 2K.

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[Stress Fracture]

I've never really believed game reviews as I need to play it first, but damn, that 2k18 review just described what the game is like right now. 1k VC for a haircut? Crap.

Might really buy Live 18 at first.

[Dee4Three]

The graphics in 2K18 overall are not better than 2K17.

[ChrisCP3Paul]

2K18 is $90 after taxes here in Canada..... and the legend edition almost $200

it's absolutely ridiculous, the price of PS4 and Xbox 1 games used to be $50 -$60 only a few short years ago... I don't know what's going on, even with other technology for example a flagship cell phone used to be $600-$700 max, now you can easily find them hovering around the $1000 price range..

It's a good thing I stopped being a gamer few years back just as it started getting expensive

[ThaLiveKing]

Everything in Canada went up, Xbox Live is 69.99 now.

I only played one game of 2K but I don't see how its game play is superior to Live, the gap is closing IMO. I always enjoy myCareer but you can really see the money grab, when I can take my 84 rated my player in Live 18 and drop 18 a game. You can't do anything in 2K while being rated a 60 overall, which means, you have to pay to upgrade.

I got some sliders coming tomorrow and I feel the game plays amazing on them. I may just get rid of 2K and put that money on FIFA 18 which I feel is more entertaining to play than 2K.

[mp3]

Back in the day nba live was deemed more of arcade to the "X's and O's" filled 2k game which I used to like, it was new, fresh and in depth to me back in 06 and by 09 they were taking my money over nba live but I think the power is shifting in favor of nba live again.

In the last few years for me with 2k have being a dud, I don't play career modes I get there the future and people really enjoy them but that's not for me, 2k has the neighbourhood a virtual life you play online... I don't have enough time to live my actual life let a lone an online one. Franchise modes are where you will find me and although 2k has had great modes like myleague and mygm the gameplay lacks with either bad A.I players on defence or a playbook at times wouldn't work properly adding to the fact that playing against the cpu on superstar they would turn on "God mode" and destroy you with bullshit while you can't even dribble the ball without dribbling the ball off your own foot.

I know Live again skipped Roster editing again which after 3 years of the people asking for it back its being ignored sucks but they did slightly update dynasty mode which gives the game a longer life with the gameplay imo being more fun to play I think there make be a few people switching over this year

[Solaris Phase Two]

Im honestly just happy you guys actually gave live a chance. Too many of my friends just say "its trash man it so unrealistic 2k is better" im like really stop riding 2k. The gameplay isnt that much far off in "realism"

[Dee4Three]

Im honestly just happy you guys actually gave live a chance. Too many of my friends just say "its trash man it so unrealistic 2k is better" im like really stop riding 2k. The gameplay isnt that much far off in "realism"

First time I've played Live a good amount in like 9 years, no joke. I've owned every one, and even gave the others a fair chance... this is the only one that I've felt good enough to move forward with (Via Ultimate Team).

People suck sometimes, many just go with the flow or with what they know. However, most people if they do play something that feels good or superior, they are willing to make the change. This game plays better than the demo, and it's great for Ultimate Team.

I am not impressed with 2K18, I feel like Live closed the gap a bit.

[mp3]

The thing is people who are saying nba live is trash so of them haven't even played Live 18 there just saying because there loyal 2k players which is fine but at least try it before you bash it.

For all I know 2k18 may be the best version yet but I won't trash talk it based on my bad experiences with the 2k16/17 gameplay because I've not played it yet but I know Iam not alone when I say that 2ks bad offline gameplay with bad AI, VC paywalls and what felt like a million patch updates creating more problems than it fixes has opened the door for a back to basics game like nba live just like live did for 2k back in 08.

[Andrew]

Perfect example of 2K fanboyism was just posted on my Monday Tip-Off article:



The funny thing is, I didn't even criticise NBA 2K18 itself, really. I said I didn't care for the story, and beyond that, the rest of the article was pretty light-hearted. I also talk about how I enjoyed MyCAREER in NBA 2K17! Gotta love how fanboys accuse others of being biased, and trot out the same tired and unimaginative "critique" because someone offered up an opinion that was less than gushing praise. Ah well. I'll just go ahead and mark it as the spam that it is.

Getting back to the topic at hand, the only NBA Live I feel skewed too much towards an arcade style was NBA Live 2003, due to Freestyle Control being overpowered, the exaggerated blocks, and general pace. Even then, it was still five-on-five gameplay with real rules, playcalling, detailed player ratings, etc. As I said in the NBA 2K18 section, to me the arcade style is distinctly different, and refers to the gameplay and aesthetic of titles like NBA Jam, NBA Street, and now NBA Playgrounds. While Live 2003 came the closest, I don't think any NBA Live or NBA 2K game can fairly be described as arcade.

What I would say is that NBA Live has taken too casual an approach to the sim style, whereas NBA 2K has taken a more hardcore approach. The latter has worked out well, without alienating gamers. Of course, beyond fundamental mechanics such as playcalling, detailed ratings, and five-on-five gameplay, NBA Live has also introduced elements like Synergy Sports data that are definitely geared towards a sim approach. However, the more casual approach - at least with default sliders, in some cases - has yielded some unsatisfactory results for gamers who want a more realistic experience.

To that end, I think "arcade" has become a euphemism or shorthand for "falls short of expectations as a sim game", at least for some people. I can understand that, but to me, the term refers to a style that is, as I said, radically different to what we've seen in any NBA Live or NBA 2K game. Of course, we can always debate semantics and nomenclature, but I think we're ultimately getting at the same thing: in some respects, NBA Live isn't as realistic as we'd like a five-on-five game (that is intended to be sim-oriented) to be.

I think NBA Live 18 has a lot of the basics in place, but the biggest issues it needs to address in terms of realism are shooting percentages in the paint, and playing styles. Right now, it seems every team has an offense revolving around attacking the basket. That's not to say that there aren't any midrange or three-point attempts, but there's a bit too much driving, and not just because of defensive errors. I feel like some of this could be fixed with tendency and slider tweaks this year, though. Animations and physics might come down to the engine, but with some tuning updates and patches, NBA Live 18 could make some more pleasing strides. It's not where I'd like it to be yet, but it's got the building blocks in place, more so than it has in a long time.

[ThePointForward]

It's too cartoonish!

Just kidding, didn't get it in the end as I decided that one NBA game is plenty with my free time. So far I like what I hear about Live 18 though and I'll probably give them a few months to see what patches do (and see how much 2K screws us with their patches) and pick it up anyway because it will be 50% off.

[[Q]]

For me, I don't really like to think too much about how "sim" a game is or sit here and nitpick hundreds of details. Sure, both games have issues here and there but for the most part are good games on their own. The big difference for me is that I actually have fun playing Live while 2K isn't as fun to play plus the grinding for VC makes it feel like a job

I already spend 45 hours a week working, I don't need another job

[Andrew]

I get what you're saying, but I think for people who aren't satisfied with a game for whatever reason, it isn't a complicated process to figure out "I'm not enjoying it for these reasons", and then share those reasons on a platform where the developers can hopefully put that feedback to good use. I guess it is possible to nitpick too much at times, but I'd say experienced basketball gamers (and avid fans of the real sport) can gauge how realistic a game is without turning it into a strenuous thought process.

[mp3]

I'd like to see a little more contact on the paint especially if you have a good low post scorer you can beat your man to the basket using the new post moves without much force from the defender. I've lowered post scoring down to 10 and also lowered jostle VS blow by too which in a way helps when I was using Cousins his quickness was slowed a little when I tried to spin but once you hit the shoot button the player gets the shot up pretty easily

[Andrew]

I'm going to see if I can devise some good sliders. It's been too long since I provided that kind of content to the community.

[mp3]

Ditto, I played a little last night adjusting them but so far I made it a little to hard to get by your man and score in general on superstar. Back to the lab tonight.