Zeitgeist - The Movie, 2007

[Gedas]

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

I will not state anything, just watch and share your opinions.

Trully shocking, but I am not sure how to take this movie.

By the way, this is not a bot spam.

[TheMC5]

I'm not watching that whole fucking movie if you don't tell me anything about it. This gets posted in almost every forum I frequent, and the people always say "Just watch it. I'm not going to tel you anything about it, but watch it." Well, to that I say, "No." At least give an idea of what's being touched on in the movie. If it's a movie about religious history/conspiracy theories, for example, I really don't give a shit.

So give me something to go on. I could google it, but as a matter of principle on this one, I'm not going to. Give me a reason to watch it.

[Raps13]

I'm not watching that whole fucking movie if you don't tell me anything about it. This gets posted in almost every forum I frequent, and the people always say "Just watch it. I'm not going to tel you anything about it, but watch it." Well, to that I say, "No." At least give an idea of what's being touched on in the movie. If it's a movie about religious history/conspiracy theories, for example, I really don't give a shit.

So give me something to go on. I could google it, but as a matter of principle on this one, I'm not going to. Give me a reason to watch it.

Then you don't need to watch the movie. From what I've read about it, it's just a critical thinking piece designed to get people to be more independent to help society. Sounds good right? Problem is it goes to far and people think that they shouldn't help others and thats why your getting the attitude from those posters.

[benji]

Someday conspiracy nuts will actually have uncovered a conspiracy and not have to use "creative" editing, confusion and obfuscation to tell about it. And nobody will believe them.

Let me know when people start spamming good contrarian videos around the internet. kthxbai.

[TheMC5]

Let me know when people start spamming good contrarian videos around the internet. kthxbai.

That actually was a pretty good video. There were a couple of problems with it, which I won't get into because it will just lead to an endless political debate. For the most part, though, it was right on point. One thing I do want to point out is that not one parent interviewed in that video claimed any sort of responsibility for their child's education. They all blamed the school exclusively. Education does not end when the school bell rings. People learn constantly, endlessly, all day for their entire lives. Parents really need to take at least some responsibility for the education of their children.

Oh, I guess there's another thing, too. Competition is not synonymous with choice.

[BigKaboom2]

There were a couple of problems with it, which I won't get into because it will just lead to an endless political debate.

God forbid someone start a debate on a forum.

[TheMC5]

There were a couple of problems with it, which I won't get into because it will just lead to an endless political debate.

God forbid someone start a debate on a forum.

Key words in that sentence: endless and political.

[el badman]

Great movie.
Will not convince those who will always choose to deny all the points that are mentioned in it (they'll probably be offended and choose to hide behing the "conspiracy" defense as usual...oops, already done apparently), since it'd question quite a few things in their existence, but it pretty much sums up some of the biggest illusions of our time, so that's a good reminder.

Key words in that sentence: endless and political.

Indeed, that's pretty pointless here.

[benji]

Movies that are "just raising questions" by setting a bunch of vague poorly sourced claims to creepy music without offering answers or even making direct claims so as to provide deniability later are never "great movies". They are just more mass product for the "sheeple" to devour while condemning "sheeple" who view things through a different prism.

We have somehow survived "Loose Change" and "Unfastened Coins", we will survive my upcoming "shocking film" about the Gypsy plot to destroy the US Economy with NBA Live 08 (vague mildly related creepy sounding title forthcoming...focus groups weren't scared enough by "Dropping Dimes"), and we will survive "Zeigeist".

[TheMC5]

Benji, you want a good "conspiracy theory" video? Check this out. I warn you in advance, it's a 9/11 video, so it may be offensive (though I don't think you'd be offended by it, just covering my bases). But it certainly does not rely on obfuscation, creepy music, or creative editing to make it's point. It's actually just a speech Mike Ruppert gave at some university (can't remember which one, it's been a while since I watched it).

Just in case you've already seen it, the video is "The Truth and Lies of 9/11".

Again, no interest in political debate. I just thought you might enjoy it if you haven't seen it already.

[el badman]

Movies that are "just raising questions" by setting a bunch of vague poorly sourced claims to creepy music without offering answers or even making direct claims so as to provide deniability later are never "great movies". They are just more mass product for the "sheeple" to devour while condemning "sheeple" who view things through a different prism.

No surprise here, though I doubt you actually took the time to watch it entirely, since you probably categorized it right away as pure consipracy theory. That's definitely your right, but I doubt that any fact would ever make you reconsider anything about your views, since they'll always appear to be "a bunch of vague poorly sourced claims", whether it's about climate change, the war, this administration, etc...Oh well...

[benji]

I do not really lump speeches in with the overproduced "shock" videos. I also do not really like watching speeches, I often prefer reading them, I tried to find it on his site, but that is a hell of a mess. He seems like quite the quirky little fellow, although touting Cynthia McKinney does more to harm his credibility than he could harm hers.

No, I did not watch every single second of Zeitgeist, even I do not wish to waste two hours on something I could probably recreate (and foresaw much of) just from reading two pages on its website, I skipped the religion parts at the beginning as I couldn't care less. I have also had problems with Google Video crapping out on me, so I watched the snippets on YouTube. (They do not have transcripts of the second two parts.) To their credit they know Google Video is the superior video site. There's also the fact it is almost borderline unwatchable because it is absolutely terrible filmmaking. It makes me long for something better

That said. If someone presented actual facts and made a rational, logical argument, it always tends to have me reconsider my beliefs. Instead, I get this video that rehashes some decade old conspiracy theories from both ends of the "spectrum" (*shudder*), combines and updates them for today. And when it isn't doing that, it's saying the same thing a good number of pompous college kids will tell me if I asked:

Christianity, along with all other theistic belief systems, is the fraud of the age. It served to detach the species from the natural world, and likewise, each other. It supports blind submission to authority. It reduces human responsibility to the effect that "God" controls everything, and in turn awful crimes can be justified in the name of Divine Pursuit. And most importantly, it empowers those who know the truth but use the myth to manipulate and control societies. The religious myth is the most powerful device ever created, and serves as the psychological soil upon which other myths can flourish

So groundbreaking! My entire belief system has been challenged! I wasn't Christian before, but I was considering it, had saw good things in the paper, and they always had such good cookies. But not now, now I know to not believe it!

Anyway, as I stated before, the movie is not offering any answers, or telling me anything "new". You say there are flaws in the story of Christianity? You say there are some things you do not understand or refuse to believe about 9/11? You say people willing give up control of their own lives? Alright, so what should be done about it? Offer me some delicious solutions to ponder. That "Stupid in America" video I linked, certainly not perfect, but it offers some solutions. They may be wrong, but they are offered.

Let's think about that "Stupid in America" video and contrast it to a part in this one. Here's the equivalent part from Zeitgeist: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BVNN1wqw3k
"Stupid in America": The education system is not working too well, America's kids seem to be falling behind, there is probably too much government involved, let's add competition and choice starting with tying the money to the kids.
"Zeitgeist": The education system is not working too well, America's kids seem to be falling behind, there is probably too much government involved, it is an evil plot to make people stupider, here's some monologues with footage of the media fading in and out, try some decade old theories as well, like it? Have more.

Zeitgeist, like all of these films and a certain MIT linguist are built from the following premise: You are already sympathetic, have your prism setup and are willing to believe anything we carefully "outline" for you but never actually say. Most of the stuff in the third part ("Federal Reserve") is massively overexaggerated, but does contain pieces of truth. They throw all the information at you with the point of what...I don't know, they don't say. I use similar examples, I properly call the New Deal fascist, I disdain the authoritarianism of "hate speech" laws and "universal" health insurance. Yet nobody is calling me a groundbreaking contrarian thinker and demanding people listen to me.

Yes, I went into this film putting the burden of proof on it. Like I always do to pretty much everything. And like most internet videos "just asking questions" or trying to "make [me] think", it failed by being stupid and cliche.

It is a poorly crafted film. It is juvenile in content. When it is called "Fred Claus", it gets a 23% on Rotten Tomatoes. When it is "Zeitgeist", everyone on the internet thinks I need to watch it.

[BigKaboom2]

This film causes me to be very depressed about the fame people can achieve via the internet (as do many things).

Eventually people have got to get the notion out of their heads that zany plots from action films can theoretically take place in real life. Also, I somehow don't quite believe that the 9/11 Truthers (ironically preaching something FAR from the truth) are experts in architecture, such that they know for a FACT why a building collapsed.

They claim that I'm the one believing everything I hear in the media, while they're nothing more than talking heads for various fringe "scientists", "professors", and "experts".

tl;dr If this juvenile rubbish gets you off, you need a reality check, and you need to develop critical thought. And by critical thought I do NOT mean searching out contrarian viewpoints vaguely reminiscent of 90's political drama films, conversing with a bunch of goons on a forum about it to build up your self confidence, then attempting to build an enormous internet-wide circle jerk around it.

[TheMC5]

Also, I somehow don't quite believe that the 9/11 Truthers (ironically preaching something FAR from the truth) are experts in architecture, such that they know for a FACT why a building collapsed.

Are you referring to video I posted? Because although it's been about 2 or 3 years since I watched it, I don't remember them touching on anything about the architecture of the building. If they did, it was a very, very minor portion of the video. But I'm pretty sure it was bypassed altogether.

Also, I think you mean structural engineering. It's different from architecture. My dad's a structural engineer, and he fucking hates architects (well, not really, but he always complains about how they don't really know the first thing about keeping a building up, they just want to make it pretty).

[BigKaboom2]

I'm talking about every example of the "movement" I've experienced in the past few years, for example people shouting from the audience during an episode of Real Time about building 7 being a controlled demolition.

And whichever engineering field is appropriate, those people have no idea about any of it.

But seriously, respond to Benji before you respond to me - his points were far more salient to the topic than my rant.

[TheMC5]

Actually, benji was mostly talking about Zeitgeist, which I did not watch, and have no intention of watching.

The only things he said regarding the video I posted were that he didn't watch it because he prefers to read speeches, and that touting Cynthia McKinney harms his credibility (which says absolutely nothing about the video/speech itself). So what's to respond to?

You, on the other hand, seemed to be making a claim about a video that I felt pretty confident that you did not watch, so I was just trying to clear the air.

And my point with the architecture thing was that experts in architecture might not the most reliable source for that information. You'd want to talk to a structural engineer, not an architect.

[BigKaboom2]

....The topic is about Zeitgeist...thus Benji's post was more relevant to the topic.

And you proposing that good "conspiracy theory" movies exist made me laugh. No way am I going to waste 2.5 hours watching that, especially when it involves Mike Ruppert, the king of everything I described in my last post.

I was never making any comment related to the video you posted, only to "Zeitgeist".

[TheMC5]

We need some kind of, like, flushing the toilet emoticon, or something.

[Sauru]

soooo, A-rod might stay with the Yankees huh?

[BigKaboom2]

We need some kind of, like, flushing the toilet emoticon, or something.

Wow, I've got absolutely no idea what you mean by that. I guess the topic is a secondary concern at this point.

[TheMC5]

Dammit. There isn't even one that closely approximates that.

[BigKaboom2]

Dammit. There isn't even one that closely approximates that.

....that?

[TheMC5]

I mean, I guess I could use the whistling one, , but that's not really the effect I'm going for.

Sigh. Oh, well.

[BigKaboom2]

Yeah, I'm sorry that didn't work out for you.

[TheMC5]

See? You knew what I was talking about all along. You were just being coy. Silly billy.