Is there a reason for war?

Rumors say that the CIA has uncovered a plot by Iraq to tank the rest of the season and acquire players of mass basketballness. The tops names on their list are LeBron James and Darius Miles. Reportedly offering 8500 liters of their anthrax supply to Cleveland for Miles. A Cleveland official would not confirm or deny but did state "Anthrax would stop other teams players better than Miles does."

The United States does not want someone of the talent level of LeBron James to be in Iraq. Thus, they are pushing for war to keep LeBron James out of Saddam's hands.

damn, that sucks

That's sick...

You wonder how that kind of stuff gets past the editors. Surely someone should say "Hey, this might not be in the best taste" before it gets printed

It's probably only a matter of time before they'll go after the likes of Darko, Varejao, etc.

Surely someone should say "Hey, this might not be in the best taste" before it gets printed

They have to say the truth, no matter what it is. In the last war of the USA with Iraq, Sadam said he didn't want any reporters around other than CNN's, he said CNN is the only news broadcast that shows the plain truth.

That freaky Sadam wants to compete with USA no matter how.

I think it's all sick... Peace can't be made by starting a war

CNN is the only news broadcast that shows the plain truth.

Right....

come on!! d-miles is worth more than 8500 liters of Anthrax,
maybe Saddam could throw in bin laden, as a deal breaker?

we can all joke about the upcomming war but...

Do you know enough to justify going to war with Iraq?

1. Q: What percentage of the world's population does the U.S. have?

A: 6%

2. Q: What percentage of the world's wealth does the U.S. have?

A: 50%

3. Q: Which country has the largest oil reserves?

A: Saudi Arabia

4. Q: Which country has the second largest oil reserves?

A: Iraq

5. Q: How much is spent on military budgets a year worldwide?

A: $900+ billion

6. Q: How much of this is spent by the U.S.?

A: 50%

7. Q: What percent of US military spending would ensure the essentials of life to everyone in the world, according the UN?

A: 10% (that's about$40 billion, the amount of funding initially requested to fund our retaliatory attack on Afghanistan).

8. Q: How many people have died in wars since World War II?

A: 86 million

9. Q: How long has Iraq had chemical and biological weapons?

A: Since the early 1980's.

10. Q: Did Iraq develop these chemical & biological weapons on their own?

A: No, the materials and technology were supplied by the US government, along with Britain and private corporations.

11. Q: Did the US government condemn the Iraqi use of gas warfare against Iran?

A: No

12. Q: How many people did Saddam Hussein kill using gas in the Kurdish town of Halabja in 1988?

A: 5,000

13. Q: How many western countries condemned this action at the time?

A: 0

14. Q: How many gallons of agent Orange did America use in Vietnam?

A: 17million.

15. Q: Are there any proven links between Iraq and September 11th terrorist attack?

A: No

16. Q: What is the estimated number of civilian casualties in the Gulf War?

A: 35,000

17. Q: How many casualties did the Iraqi military inflict on the western forces during the Gulf War ?

A: 0

18. Q: How many retreating Iraqi soldiers were buried alive by
U.S. tanks with ploughs mounted on the front?

A: 6,000

19. Q: How many tons of depleted uranium were left in Iraq and Kuwait after the Gulf War?

A: 40 tons

20. Q: What according to the UN was the increase in cancer rates in Iraq between 1991 and 1994?

A: 700%

21. Q: How much of Iraq's military capacity did America claim it had destroyed in 1991?

A: 80%

22. Q: Is there any proof that Iraq plans to use its weapons for anything other than deterrence and self defense?

A: No

23. Q: Does Iraq present more of a threat to world peace now than 10 years ago?

A: No

24. Q: How many civilian deaths has the Pentagon predicted in the event of an attack on Iraq in 2002/3?

A: 10,000

25. Q: What percentage of these will be children?

A:Over 50%

26. Q: How many years has the U.S. engaged in air strikes on Iraq?

A: 11 years

27. Q: Were the U.S and the UK at war with Iraq between December 1998 and September 1999?

A: No

28. Q: How many pounds of explosives were dropped on Iraq between
December 1998 and September 1999?

A: 20 million

29. Q: How many years ago was UN Resolution 661 introduced, imposing strict sanctions on Iraq's imports and exports?

A: 12 years

30. Q: What was the child death rate in Iraq in 1989 (per 1,000 births)?

A: 38

31. Q: What was the estimated child death rate in Iraq in 1999 (per 1,000 births)?

A: 131 (that's an increase of 345%)

32. Q: How many Iraqis are estimated to have died by October 1999 as a result of UN sanctions?

A: 1.5 million

33. Q: How many Iraqi children are estimated to have died due to
sanctions since 1997?

A: 750,000

34. Q: Did Saddam order the inspectors out of Iraq?

A: No

35. Q: How many inspections were there in November and December
1998?

A: 300

36. Q: How many of these inspections had problems?

A: 5

37. Q: Were the weapons inspectors allowed entry to the Ba'ath Party HQ?

A: Yes

38. Q: Who said that by December 1998, "Iraq had in fact, been disarmed to a level unprecedented in modern history."

A: Scott Ritter, UNSCOM chief.

39. Q: In 1998 how much of Iraq's post 1991 capacity to develop
weapons of mass destruction did the UN weapons inspectors claim to have discovered and dismantled?

A: 90%

40. Q: Is Iraq willing to allow the weapons inspectors back in ?

A: Yes

41. Q: How many UN resolutions did Israel violate by 1992?

A: Over 65

42. Q: How many UN resolutions on Israel did America veto between
1972 and 1990?

A: 30+

44. Q: How many countries are known to have nuclear weapons?

A: 8

45. Q: How many nuclear warheads has Iraq got?

A: 0

46. Q: How many nuclear warheads has US got?

A: Over 10,000

47. Q: Which is the only country to use nuclear weapons?

A: The US

48. Q: How many nuclear warheads does Israel have?

A: Over 400

50. Q: Who said, "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent
about things that matter"?

A: Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr

this is a sad day for the world...

Damn that info blows the mind

Good post David.

I already knew about half that, which was why I'm against thte war... and the other half made me even more sure of myself.
This is nothing against the Americans that visit here, but I think the U.S. handle their foreign politics too egoistical, they ignore the UN when they feel like it, pass bills that only favour themselves, stuff like that.. not good
On the other hand, it's good when a country keeps everything in order, but not in this way, IMO.

Woah...they were some solid facts...

I agree completely with Rens...couldn't have said it better myself...

I think Saddam needs to be stopped...but starting war with Iraq is the wrong way..

p.s. Was this thread even started to talk about war?

If you consider those to be solid facts...then you must believe the article quoted at the top of the page...

1. A.-What does it matter?

2. A.-Again, what does it matter?

3. A. And your point is?

4. A. If they want to keep it they better give up their nuclear weapons.

5. A. What does it matter?

6. A. Good. However even with the strongest military in the world we did not stop 9/11 which shows to prevent another 9/11 we need to kick the $#!+ out of these little terrorist despots starting with Saddam.

7. That's BS. We've tried that, but the strong always take it away from the weak in these countries such as Iraq.

8. A. Another pointless question, Lot more wars before that, lot of people died before that.

9. A. Too long

10. A. True, along with the technology so they could have the 2nd biggest oil reserves in the world and ride Mercedes instead of camels.

11. Not no but he# No, the Ayatolla Khomodie kept a bunch our people hostages while Peanut Jim twittled his thumbs. Why should the parents of those young marines or any of us give a flyin f what happened to Iran at that time.

12. A. Maybe, and if he succeeds in getting the weapons to reach us he'll kill a lot more Americans the 5K.

13. A. Not true, it was criticized, just nobody did anything about it.

14. Another meaningless question. Many Americans were affected by Agent Orange also, including myself.

15. A. Were there proven links that the Germans knew Japan was going to hit Pearl? We were the last ones Hitler wanted in the war, so we shouldn't have gone after Germany too? BS. Hussein was glad it happened and is a big supporter of terror organizations along with
Osama.

16. A. Again BS, nobody knows and that figure is nowhere near accurate.

17. A. BS, there were American Soldiers that died in the Gulf War.

18. A. Not Enough

19. A. Again, no one knows. This figure has no basis for credibility.

20. A. Whether true or not, Hussein is as much or more to blame for that then anyone.

21. A. Not enough-from Stormin' Norman

22. A. Yes, Hussein has always reached as far out as he can to attack whoever he can with the weapons he had available.

23. A. Yes

24. A. BS

25. A. Double BS

But a few should be handled since they weren't in the post I found on this...

16. Most reports say between 2,000 and 6,000...in a month of bombing...

17. Allied Forces lost at least 400 soliders...guess who ever made up this list forgot the barracks hit by a SCUD...

18. Proof?

22. Is there any proof the Allied Forces plan to use their weapons for anything other than deterrence and self-defense?

23. But they still pose a threat...

24 and 25. Pentagon has made no predictions...and prove 50% will be children...

29. How many years ago was UN Resolution 687 passed that required Saddam to disarm 15 days after the Gulf War

How many years was it before that was enforced? 12 years, four months...

32 and 33. Cannot be proven they died as a result...

38. He also had sex with a 14 year old...

38 and 39. That's of what they found...there's no reason they couldn't increase that in the time since...

40. Because there are 300K Allied Troops sitting on the border and now attacking anti-aircraft guns...if he wasn't being seriously threatend by the United States and it's 45 Allies, would they be?

45. How many could it have in the future? Would you risk your family to find out?

46. How many Nuclear Warheads does the US pass over to terrorists to use against the United States and the rest of the Western World?

47. Who saved millions of lives by using it?

48. How many have they used? If they didn't have them, would Israel continue to come under attack from their neighbors?

49. Where is 49?

I think Saddam needs to be stopped...but starting war with Iraq is the wrong way..

You can't stop him any other way...I think everyone who lives on Earth knows that...

the U.S. handle their foreign politics too egoistical, they ignore the UN when they feel like it

There was a time when France was not so squeamish about regime change. In fact, France has intervened militarily, either to change regimes in sub-Sahara Africa or to restore deposed strongmen, no less than 37 times since 1960.
In some cases, Foreign Legion paratroopers were dispatched because a local leader (Central Africa's Bokassa before he crowned himself "Emperor of the Central African Empire) was afraid his enemies were getting ready to dump him. There was never any thought of going to the U.N. Security Council when France's national interest was deemed to be at stake in its former colonies.
In early September 1979, France's legendary spy chief, the late Alexandre de Marenches, informed President Valery Giscard d'Estaing during their weekly tete-a-tete (no note takers) that Bokassa was in Libya and 72 Libyan "military advisers" had arrived in Bangui. Marenches' conclusion was that Bokassa was about to switch puppet masters and become Moammar Gadhafi's stooge in central Africa. Mr. Giscard did not respond. Marenches explained he had a plan of action ready, "53 steps in less than one hour to put a new man in power — David Dacko would be my preference — and my men will be out of there in less than one hour." Mr. Giscard feigned disinterest and France's two most powerful men went on to talk about other global hot spots.
Before leaving Mr. Giscard's Elysee Palace office, Marenches said, "Do I have your green light, Monsieur le President." Mr. Giscard shrugged his shoulders without saying a word. Marenches took that to mean, "Yes, if you can guarantee success, and if you fail, it's your hide, not mine."
As head of the French CIA, Marenches had his own special forces. Late afternoon Sept. 19, 1979, they put David Dacko, an exiled political leader from the Central African Empire, in a limousine aboard a Transall transport plane with a dozen paracommandos. A second Transall carried two jeeps and a score of France's best soldiers.
Marenches had also created a phony African news service that put out a story about an attempted coup in Bangui. AFP, the French news agency, immediately picked up the story and the duty man at the French Foreign Ministry woke up the French ambassador in Bangui and asked him what was happening. "Let me turn off the air conditioning as I can't hear anything," said the ambassador. Marenches had ordered the line tapped and was listening to the conversation. The ambassador said all was quiet in the streets. The spy chief merely wanted to test the country's military reaction to rumors of a coup. When he determined there was none, he ordered the two planes to land.
David Dacko was driven to the Bangui TV station to broadcast a proclamation that had been written for him by Marenches. It said, "The bloody tyrant Bokassa has been deposed and I have assumed full powers as your new president." Marenches had also taken the precaution of pre-recording the proclamation "in case Dacko got cold feet at the last minute." Mr. Dacko ended his speech by announcing "I have appealed to France to send troops immediately to ensure security in our capital."
One of the two jeeps carried satchels of French CFA francs, as they knew Bokassa's imperial guards had not been paid in two months.
When they arrived at the palace, the French Special Forces shouted, "We have the money Bokassa stole from you." The guards quickly dropped their weapons and plunged into the money bags. Mr. Dacko's limousine then pulled up and drove through the gates. The mammon from Paris had done the trick.
As Marenches promised Mr. Giscard, his men had reboarded the two Transall aircraft and were airborne on their way back to a French base in Senegal 58 minutes after they had landed. By dawn, David Dacko's appeal to France had been answered and Operation Barracuda was under way. Two companies of French Foreign Legion paratroopers landed in Bangui at dawn. Col. Ghadafi's military advisers were flown home, and Bokassa went into exile.
It was Libya, not the diamonds Bokassa once gave Mr. Giscard, that triggered the French regime change operation in Bangui. Paris intervened militarily on two separate occasions to save Zaire's late kleptomaniac President Mobutu Sese Seko. In 1977, French Foreign Legionnaires dropped into Kolwezi, the capital of Shaba Province, to try to keep Mobutu's country from falling apart. Next year, the French returned to Shaba, this time ferrying Moroccan troops to keep the peace. In 1991, 1,000 French paratroopers were dispatched to Kinshasa, the capital of Zaire (now called the Congo), to protect Mobutu against his rioting population.
Today, the French military are trying to separate rebel from government forces in the Ivory Coast. They have saved both French and American lives there.
When it comes to French national interests, the U.N. does not exist, and regime change is always an option. In Chad, from 1968 to 1972, French forces helped defend President Tombalbaye against the Tibesti rebellion led by Hissene Habre. Then in 1983-84, the French threw their weight behind regime change with some 4,000 men — Operation Manta — to prop up Hissene Habre. In 1986, the French came back with 900 men — Operation Hawk — for more prop work.
France has been a self-appointed African cop on the sub-Sahara beat ever since French West Africa and Equatorial Africa spawned 13 independent states in 1960. French public opinion has demonstrated in countless surveys it isn't too interested in regime change operations in black Africa. Iraq is a different story.
In coup-prone Bangui this week, rebels loyal to a former army chief took advantage of President Angel-Felix Patasse's visit to another African country to blast their way back to power. This time, Paris reacted with a shrug of the shoulders.

You fellas can all reply and spew more lies if you want...I'm not going to refute them with facts or reason...i.e. reply...takes too long to load the NLSC...plus there's no point in arguing...we're already liberating Iraq and doing the right thing...I suggest everyone forget posting stuff like David copied...unless you like spreading hate, lies and unsupported claims (thus, lies)...plus, this is NBA Talk...not Bash The US, It's Allies and Others With Morals And A Goal For Rightousness Talk...

im with ben, there is no other way to stop him, we've let him run free to long

im an aussie and we have a differnt situation, australia needs u americans as allies, we may have one of the most skillfull and well trained army's in the world but it isnt big and we dont have the big weapons of most country's. What all these little anti war people dont relize is if we send a few dudes over to help fight this war we keep u guys happy and have helped out u's even though its a minor 3,000 men out of 300,000 but it keeps you guys looking out for us, we all know if we got attacked by someone with a half decent sized army australia is stuffed, but because we have america on our side no one is game enough.

John Howard (or pm) has copped so much flack for agreeing to help, what they dont relize is its a small price to pay for the protected we get for just being affiliated with the americans

im with ben too... lets not "Bash The US" they are the rulers of the world and it is their decision to invade Iraq. The rest of the world can just like it or too bad. That’s the way it is. Get used to it.

its a small price to pay for the protected we get for just being affiliated with the americans

Yes we can wash our hands of the blood of Iraq because we have big brother on our side.

I also agree with Ben. This had to be done for the good of the rest of the world. This was the only way to get Saddam out of power and begin to put the Middle East back together. Force had to be used against him before he used it against anyone else. Noone like Saddam should be allowed to run a country.

****! I honestly hope everyone gets what's comming to them.

IMHO, some of the blame for war must fall on the United Nations - not necessarily the people in place, but the rules and the role. The UN was created in an effort to prevent conflict, but it cannot be effective in doing so. The US was prepared for war without UN approval - in theory, the UN should be able to step in and prevent the US from taking action. UN approval means very little if a country can go to war with or without it.

The war is basically Bush's pigeon if you will. I feel that Australia and Britain don't really have a place there. Like Vietnam, Australia is getting involved in a conflict it has no business in. I get the impression that Howard feels doing this will bring some kind of internation prestige to Australia. Somehow, I don't think fighting in an unpopular war is going to stop all the kangaroo and Crocodile Dundee jokes. And I doubt it's going to help the Liberals in the NSW State Election this Saturday.

John Howard (or pm) has copped so much flack for agreeing to help, what they dont relize is its a small price to pay for the protected we get for just being affiliated with the americans

A poll or something showed that 80% of americans don't even know that aussies were helping USA...

Stupid polls...

First, the US was concerned with the mass destruction weapons. Now, they're only concerned with Saddam, that's what their ultimatum has shown us. They're now very bold with showing their power, and only because they can. They have the military, and economical force to do it. Not the political power or the moral authorities. But the moral part, they're doing something about it, they're making the American people believe they are the saviours, and that they can force everyone to believe in their morals. Everything is based on belief in their own superiority.
As for examples of the U.S. foreign politics being egoistical and isolational, see Kyoto, the International Court in the Hague (dunno the exact name in English), nuclear tests, land mines...

I think getting rid of Sadaam and weapons of mass destruction go hand in hand becuase Sadaam is the one behind Iraq obtaining these weapons which is why there is conflict now. America doesn't have a perfect track record, but at least they are trying to stop a dictator before he has the capabilities of causing any real havoc. Can any country say they did that to Germany before they started world war 2?

As much as I dislike him, I have to agree with Ben. Alot of people like to have a crack at the U.S. but if you want to have a go at America, why not have a go at France for putting that fucking stupid vito in place. There was still a(although small) chance for a peacefull resolution.

I voted for the last time in november 2000. George Walker Bush is the electoral college's president, he sure as hell isn't mine. I hope one day he suffers for his war crimes in a cramped prison cell with his equal Slobodan Milosevic. He may be able to buy power and influence the puritan masses, but he doesn't have all US citizens fooled.

I hope both Saddam and Bush get their ass kicked out by their own ppl. Not gonna happen but thats an ideal scenario for me