On this day in 1941...

[Riot]

America was attacked by those damn Japs at Pearl Harbor. I believe America would have gotten into World War II with or without this attack but this event triggered the American public and basically got the support of the people to join Great Britian and the other allies against the Nazi's and Japs.

I'm willing to bet the Japs are probably kicking themselves after that attack. They thought it was going to be the greatest attack ever and they thought they could take out our entire Pacific Fleet. But when the Jap planes got there the Carriers weren't there. And then we joined the war and nuked the shit out of them.

It is a shame that a lot of people (in America) don't really pay attention to Pearl Harbor anymore. The only people that really care about it are the older veterans or citizens who actually remember the day. I hope that doesn't happen with September 11th in 20 years.

Anyways, I'll get flamed for this and this will somehow turn into a debate, but oh well. RIP to all those who died, not only in Pearl Harbor but in WWII in general.

[Jugs]

RIP to those who died.

I liked the Pearl Harbour movie

[Riot]

God, Pearl Harbor was one of the worst movies ever. If you want a good movie about the events of Pearl Harbor watch Tora! Tora! Tora! It was produced by an American and a Jap. It is very factual and shows both sides of the attack.

[Jing]

i heard that movie was a piece of shit.
rip to everyone that died then

edit--
oh whoa, riot and me posted the same thing at the same time

[Jugs]

The only reason I liked the Pearl Harbour movie was it wasted 3 hours of my time while I was waiting for dinner.

[Riot]

The only reason I liked the Pearl Harbour movie was it wasted 3 hours of my time while I was waiting for dinner.

Key word.

[cyanide]

I think at that same time or just before, Hitler and the Nazis were at the height of their power, taking hold of much of Europe before Hitler made that disasterous decision to capture the Soviet Union during winter that really spelled the end of his empire.

[Riot]

Yeah, the Nazi's were owning Europe in WWII and that's what sucks about being an isolationist nation, we didn't help. We only decided to help military wise after Pearl Harbor and even after that most of our attention was directed at Japan rather than Germany.

But the nice thing is after the war America did rebuild parts of Japan and Germany...which the Soviet's didn't like.

[cyanide]

I guess we should thank Japan for the wake-up call, heh

Man, it's weird how the Soviets became a superpower after that. They lost millions, and they were poorly equipped during WWII, but managed to be the first to topple Berlin, and start a Cold War with the States for what, 50 years?

[Cloudy]

Japs were fucking idiots. I hated Japs.
Fuckin' Japs... Remember the Rape of Nanjing?
Fuck those Japs... Oh well, Chinese were pretty weak at that time anyway..
But fuck those Japs... Right now they're ok..
I got a Jap friend and I don't wanna talk history with him...

[Riot]

Japs were fucking idiots. I hated Japs.
Fuckin' Japs... Remember the Rape of Nanjing?
Fuck those Japs... Oh well, Chinese were pretty weak at that time anyway..
But fuck those Japs... Right now they're ok..
I got a Jap friend and I don't wanna talk history with him...

It's ok, we nuked them for you.

[Bang]

How come Riot gets away with calling em japs?
Boohoo!

America would have gotten into war no matter what, or japan would have attacked anyhow. America had already frozen japan's assets and boycotted trade with japan. You gotta understand that around 50% of the japanese economy was based on trade with the US and around 70% of the oil came from the US. With no oil and lacking money to do anything, they had to try and take over the Phillipines. But for some odd reason they decided to stop the reinforcements instead of attacking the Philipines first. BAD DECISION. They underestimated the US, thinking that after the attack on Pearl Harbor the US would just cower in fear.

Another interesting thing is that the Americans seriously did not think that the japanese could attack since they believed all japanese were myopic and that they couldn't possibly fly planes. They saw some planes in the radar but they basically laughed it off thinking japan couldn't pull off such a thing.

As much as I dislike the japanese, we should also remember that the US were not completely innocent. Their racism was so incredible to the extent that it was a factor in causing the war. Not to mention they also sent japanese into concentration camps...which for some reason nobody knows. Canada did this as well! http://www.infoplease.com/spot/internment1.html
I can't find the huge site about this largely forgotten issue, but I might find it and post it later.

As for the accuracy of other info. I wrote an essay about it, but I'm too lazy to write down all the sources.

[Jing]

lol... well, you hate em when they are evil and love em when they are good.
kinda like basketball players...

i had a debate in hs where we argued for and against the bomb... there was a fight between me (against), and one of my current college teammates, the teacher had so seperate us cause we got so into it and stuff. its was amazingly funny

i think i was so passionate. of course the japs, killing chinese and stuff, horrible, the bomb made americans the devil in people's eyes, they were ready to surrender, and the americans just decided to drop the bomb cause it helped demonstrate power which is just wrong, and the aftermath, the images.. horrible.
sure it ended war, but it could have ended on a peaceful note rather than something like that.

[Bang]

The japanese should actually be "thankful" of the bomb. Now before you say anything, read what I'm going to say.

1.) It allows them almost complete absolution from blame because of the huge impact.
2.) It saved millions of lives. Hirohito actually wanted Japan to fight more, stating he was willing to sacrifice 2 million lives for the war. Why did Hirohito eventually surrender?
a.) The Russians were coming and there was much more chance of the Russians killing Hirohito than the US.
b.) Since the surrender statement is the ONLY official Hirohito order (since everything else was burned or hidden), Hirohito could then claim he was a puppet and get away with it.

Basically it was the best way to save the emperor. I believe all this is found in Herbert Bix's book on Hirohito...

Did you know that:
After the atomic bombs around 70% of Japan STILL wanted to go to war UNTIL they heard the voice from the emperor and the %s dropped significantly.
Even people in Hiroshima were willing to still fight for the war. (70% here as well!)

Source: United States Strategic Bombing Survey, Morale Division, The Effect of Strategic Bombing on Japanese Morale 1947.

Not that I think the Atomic Bomb wasn't an atrocity. It was, but in some ways it was necessary.

[Riot]

The Japanense weren't ready to surrender, they have a "strict code of honor" and they are willing to die before they surrender. America told them that they had a devestating weapon and if they don't surrender we will use it on them. The Japs said they will not surrender, and then we bombed them.

The bombing was actually a good thing because more people would have died if America would have invaded Japan. They are estimating that over 20,000 US Soldiers alone would have died in the first MONTH of an invasion. Plus, you have to add that the Jap citizens were being taught to fight against US Soldiers and become sucide bombers against them. The death toll would have been awful.

The bombs showed to the world that America is for real. We had to show off our power to the Soviet's. We had two bombs and we dropped both of them on Japan. If we had more we would have dropped more. But we didn't do it to have a mass loss of life, we did it to show off our power. And the towns we bombed were producing something like 90% of Japan's military weapons and machines. If we took out those factories then Japan's military would be completely un-equipped. If America wanted to go for mass amount of lossed lives they would have nuked Tokyo, but they didn't want to do that. They also refused to bomb some sacred city in Japan as well.

The A-Bombs were devestating, yet justified. But don't you think for one second that the Japs were going to surrender. I believe they refused to surrender twice in the 10 days leading up to the bombings (the two bombs actually took place on two different days). So, that is why we dropped the A-Bomb.

[Bang]

Japs were fucking idiots. I hated Japs.
Fuckin' Japs... Remember the Rape of Nanjing?
Fuck those Japs... Oh well, Chinese were pretty weak at that time anyway..
But fuck those Japs... Right now they're ok..
I got a Jap friend and I don't wanna talk history with him...

I remember that in one of the first Eastern Civilizations classes we raised hands to see how many people supported the bomb. Only the Koreans held up their hands. After learning about Rape of Nan King and other atrocities, basically all the people in the class argued that the bomb was necessary. (Even my Spanish-Japanese friend raised his hand!) I remember some of the Americans were even crying when the teacher was talking about the Rape of Nan King.

The real irony of that event is that a Nazi general actually saved a lot of the women and children by rescuing them. Imagine that, a Nazi general coming to the rescue! Eventually that Nazi general was sentenced to death in Nuremburg...sad, isn't it?

[shadowgrin]

The Japanese Imperial Army did rape the Philippines.

The bomb was necessary.
Before WWII ended, the Japanese citizens viewed their emperor as descendant of the gods. The fighting Japs were fanatical in the service of their demi-god. The bomb was the thing the Japanese needed for them to realize to stop their shite. I think there was no "peaceful" alternative to end the war.

[cyanide]

Not to mention they also sent japanese into concentration camps...which for some reason nobody knows. Canada did this as well! http://www.infoplease.com/spot/internment1.html
I can't find the huge site about this largely forgotten issue, but I might find it and post it later.

Actually, it's not forgotten, at least here in Canada; we had to learn about this in our social studies class. The most devastating effects were in Vancouver and British Columbia, and we really treated them piss poor. In the end, I think we paid out $1 million to each of the families for their suffering.

[air gordon]

It is a shame that a lot of people (in America) don't really pay attention to Pearl Harbor anymore. The only people that really care about it are the older veterans or citizens who actually remember the day. I hope that doesn't happen with September 11th in 20 years.

er how much more do you want people to pay attention to it? it was a tragic day in american history and people are aware of it.

the event is printed almost every calendar sold in the US. and then when the day arrives, the news mentions it and there's normally some bit about it.

[Riot]

There was nothing mentioned about it on Good Morning America this morning, or our local news station.

I don't have it on my calender, either. I don't know why.

[Jackal_]

I don't have it on my calender, either. I don't know why.

Probably cuz no one gives a shit?

[Colin]

Not to mention they also sent japanese into concentration camps...which for some reason nobody knows. Canada did this as well! http://www.infoplease.com/spot/internment1.html
I can't find the huge site about this largely forgotten issue, but I might find it and post it later.

Actually, it's not forgotten, at least here in Canada; we had to learn about this in our social studies class. The most devastating effects were in Vancouver and British Columbia, and we really treated them piss poor. In the end, I think we paid out $1 million to each of the families for their suffering.

I'm just learning this in socials, it was 50,000 to every person. They sent them off to concentration camps and sold off everything the families owned at loooow prices. The example my teacher gave was that something worth $5000 would be sold for $400 tops.

Coolest thing I learned. Stanley Park has tons of bunkers underneath it, the bases of the Lions Gate Bridge have bunkers, and there is a tunnel that goes from the North Shore into Stanley Park right under the bridge. I need to see this tunnel.

[Bang]

Not to mention they also sent japanese into concentration camps...which for some reason nobody knows. Canada did this as well! http://www.infoplease.com/spot/internment1.html
I can't find the huge site about this largely forgotten issue, but I might find it and post it later.

Actually, it's not forgotten, at least here in Canada; we had to learn about this in our social studies class. The most devastating effects were in Vancouver and British Columbia, and we really treated them piss poor. In the end, I think we paid out $1 million to each of the families for their suffering.

I'm just learning this in socials, it was 50,000 to every person. They sent them off to concentration camps and sold off everything the families owned at loooow prices. The example my teacher gave was that something worth $5000 would be sold for $400 tops.

Coolest thing I learned. Stanley Park has tons of bunkers underneath it, the bases of the Lions Gate Bridge have bunkers, and there is a tunnel that goes from the North Shore into Stanley Park right under the bridge. I need to see this tunnel.

I doubt a lot of Americans know about it. I remember when we were discussing this in class a lot of people never heard about it.

[Cloudy]

Wait. Was it an atomic bomb or nuclear bomb... ??? Riot said the US nuked them, so it's nuclear bomb. But then bang wrote "After the atomic bombs around 70% of Japan STILL wanted to go to war"
So Im not really sure what it is... Riot?

[Andrew]

Perhaps I'm showing my ignorance here, but I always thought the two were one and the same.