Mass Debate: Team Darko vs Team Yinka

Topic: Abortion, should it be legal? Is it morally correct?

Team Darko will be the affirmative, Team Yinka will be the negative.

Make all of your posts in this thread.

The way the task works, is that the debate will be fought out on the forums in public view... which means if you think you can contribute to your team with an argument, then post it. You don't necessarily have to consult your teammates on everything you do, because you're all arguing the same thing so feel free to post whenever you want as long as it's on the topic etc.

Any questions ask in the NRS Second Task thread.

Um...abortions rule!

I don't think it should be legal. Most of the time, abortion is used when people are not responsible fo their actions (you know, not using protection). You're killing a human life.

I'll wrote more when I have the time, in a couple hours. This post will be edited

Actually, when you committ abortion the baby isn't even capable of any thought. It's technically not even alive when you get abortion. So it's not human life, it's going to be a human life.

Also, what about people who get raped? Should they be stuck with that kid? Or people who got drunk and had a fun time? People who used protection but it didn't work? People who don't have enough money to feed themselves let alone a kid.

People are always in different and difficult situations and you have to think about every single one of them. Sure, abortion SOUNDS bad but in a lot of different situations it can be the right decision.

LMAO, the "next Pope" is in favor of abortion .

A human life is anything that has human DNA. It's not a human person, but it is a life.

"Human life:" Any living entity which has human DNA. A spermatozoa, ovum, pre-embryo, embryo, fetus, newborn, and infant are different forms of human life. However, they are not all considered to have equal value.

When people "have fun", they know the risks of it, specially if they're not using protection. That's not a case when abortion could be used. You have sex, you take care of yourself. If you are going to have a baby, you should be responsible of it.

Abortion could be legal, but just in some special cases, like the rape thing. That's the only time abortion could be used, and it would need a permission by some medical department or Hospital.

Last edited by Drex on Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

I don't think it should be legal. Most of the time, abortion is used when people are not responsible fo their actions (you know, not using protection). You're killing a human life.

But what about the times that aren't "most of the time"? What about the girl who was walking home from work and all of a sudden a stronger, intimidating dude pushes her into an ally and visciously rapes her? That dude's sperm happens to hit her egg, and BAM -- she's pregnant.

What about the girl who was manipulated by her sleezeball boyfriend into having sex and wasn't educated on the benefits of the condom. That's not irresponsible, that's uneducated, and I hate to say this, but you cannot blame the girl for that.

If every incident of girls wanting an abortion was due to their irresponsible actions, than it wouldn't be as complicated. But Drex, "most of the time" isn't "all the time." We need to watch out for the victims of rape and manipulation and keep abortion legal.

As Pope riot said... not all situations are the same. However, I believe that it should be the decision of the person who has the child in her womb. Sure, it may result from a one night stand which should never have happened but it's still an accident right?

So I'm talking about the women who are struggling in the first place, financially and the women who don't want a kid. The rape issue is huge and you can think about it... would you want the kid of your rapist???

You should think about what's best for the kid. Many women who may get pregnant accidentally won't get an abortion... why? Because of the legal system. Think about it this way... if they were wanting to lose the kid.... and couldn't she would feel the kid as a burden. Doesn't that predict how she treats the child after he/she is born?

Repeated child abuse may occur and that's bad for the child. He/she might grow up just like their mother... have problems and might even follow on the same path as the single parent... why would u want to let anothe rhuman suffer when u have a chance to prevent it? And if you did prevent it, both mother and un-born child wouldn't be put into such a hostile situation!

And think about the women who are on drugs or drink or have problems in the first place... if they claim childcare money it will be spent on those things! The child won't grow up healthy, may be sick all the time...

And the women who, as Drex said 'when people are not responsible fo their actions'- if you're not responsible with that, how are you going to be responsible for a kid which is a bigger thing than slipping on a condom.

I got othe rpoints which I will brng up later... this is only a starting point!

Sit

You posted when I was editing my post

If a girl was manipulated by her boyfriend, that's her parents and boyfriend's fault. And, why shouldn't she be irresponsible, either? She can't have sex and don't know the consequences of the act. I mean, she can't be that stupid .

Now to the boyfriend part. If he manipulated her, what arguments could he use to get to the girls panties? Having a good time? He should've explained her what could happen. If he didn't and the girl ends up pregnant, it's not a valid reason why they should kill the future baby.

Fuck, again! You guys are giving me a hard work, and I need to study for an exam I have tomorrow. I would like my team to get here and hel me .

Put yourself in the situation of a poor woman, would you have sex and take the risk of having a baby that you can't take care of? That's another example of being irresponsible.

If it's an accident, that gives you the decision of killing a human life??

Or people who got drunk and had a fun time? People who used protection but it didn't work? People who don't have enough money to feed themselves let alone a kid.

Don't pull that shit. If you have sex you're saying you're ready to have a baby with someone. If you're not, don't do it.

I they get drunk and make a baby, they're idrresponsible fuckwits. Their fault, no reason to kill a fture baby.

If people just had sex when they were ready for a baby, there would be no need for condoms.

If they can't feed teh baby, well, they're not ready.

Abortion should be legal! It's a woman's right to choose! You wouldn't take that away, would you?

No shit they aren't ready. Humans make mistakes. And when they do normally we say "let them live with the choices they made" but when their choices are going to effect a new, young, innocent life shouldn't we step in and say enough is enough?

Like sit said, if they aren't responsible enough to use protection how are they going to be responsible enough to raise a kid?

Also, what if boyfriend/girlfriend had sex and they planned on having the baby but they boyfriend ran away because he got scared or something. Does that poor girl have to take care of the baby all by herself because she made an "irresponsible" move? When you do that you aren't only ruining the life of the young lady but you are also ruining whatever chance that baby has to live.

Plus, the world is overpopulated anyways.

I dont believe in abortion, because if your stupid enough to get pregnant when you didnt want to, you deserve to be punished.

If your too much of an idiot to not use protection, then the babby is your problem. There is n "easy way out" there is no, "Whoops i'm a whore that got pregnant... Oh well! I'll just have an abortion!"

So abortion is wrong... period

What's wrong with putting them up for adoption or living in a foster home? One of my best freinds has 10 kids living in his house, 8 of them adopted. Their parents weren't ready, but teh children aren't dead. They live happy lives.

Because some people would rather have the kid die then live in foster homes. For every happy kid in a foster home they are prolly 3 unhappy ones.

And like Alcoholic said, it's a choice whether or not you want to be a parent. You can't take that right away. Some people aren't educated, so "punishing" them isn't fair. Especially when something more is on the line.

I dont believe in abortion, because if your stupid enough to get pregnant when you didnt want to, you deserve to be punished.

If your too much of an idiot to not use protection, then the babby is your problem. There is n "easy way out" there is no, "Whoops i'm a whore that got pregnant... Oh well! I'll just have an abortion!"

So abortion is wrong... period

Yeah I bet the rapist told the girl, "I'm about to fuck you -- you want me to wear this?"

Yeah, only stupid people get raped, Mazz.

Rape victims aren't always whores.

They deserve abortions, and you cannot convince me otherwise.

And abortions for some, should mean abortions for all.

Sex happens, and Riot brought up another great example of the 3% of the times where a condom does not work. Wake up, guys. Sex isn't just had to produce babies. People get wild, and most are responsible enough to use a condom. But sometimes the condom just doesn't work. What can you tell the mother now?

"You should've took the pill!!!"

No shit they aren't ready. Humans make mistakes. And when they do normally we say "let them live with the choices they made" but when their choices are going to effect a new, young, innocent life shouldn't we step in and say enough is enough?

So, kill the future baby 'cause they made a mistake...

Abortion should be legal! It's a woman's right to choose! You wouldn't take that away, would you?

Yes. "OMG, I had sex but I didn't wanted the baby. Ha! I know, I'll kill him"

Like sit said, if they aren't responsible enough to use protection how are they going to be responsible enough to raise a kid?

If you're not responsible for doing something then don't do it.

Also, what if boyfriend/girlfriend had sex and they planned on having the baby but they boyfriend ran away because he got scared or something. Does that poor girl have to take care of the baby all by herself because she made an "irresponsible" move? When you do that you aren't only ruining the life of the young lady but you are also ruining whatever chance that baby has to live.

Yes. They could talk to the boy parents. Also, how do you know if that little baby turns out to be the next Micheal Jordan, Albert Einstein, etc?

Because some people would rather have the kid die then live in foster homes. For every happy kid in a foster home they are prolly 3 unhappy ones.

Is that a fact? And, did you ask the kid if he wanted to die or live?

Sex happens, and Riot brought up another great example of the 3% of the times where a condom does not work. Wake up, guys. Sex isn't just had to produce babies. People get wild, and most are responsible enough to use a condom. But sometimes the condom just doesn't work.

There's other methods besides condoms.

Go Yinka

The thing is would you rather see the child suffer when he does get born because he also gets stuck with an irresponsible parent? what if the parents can't afford to raise the child. what if the parent is ready to be a parent that he blames the child for ruining his life, that he's responsible, it might cause the child severe mental and emotional scars and sometimes even physical. won't you rather stop it before he's actually alive seeing as most abortions are done before the kid is actually alive

You guys are using the agrument "there are ways to stop things from getting pregant" and things like "if they aren't responsible enough to have a baby then don't do it!". But the thing is, PEOPLE AREN'T SMART!!! You can't act like everyone is educated, responsible and well financed. It doesn't happen like that in the real world!

You can't just say "maybe they should have done this or that" because they didn't!

i agree with riot there. i mean in africa some people who have aids rape little girls coz they think having sex with children would make aids go away. hence the aids issue there is getting worse.

People get raped whether they like it or not. (it means In many cases their life is bad enough that they live in a bad neighbourhood, and now they become pregnant, you just don't care about what the woman feels do you? As if things were hard enough.

If it's an accident, that gives you the decision of killing a human life??

- There is no scientific evidence that the foetus is alive at that stage

Don't pull that shit. If you have sex you're saying you're ready to have a baby with someone. If you're not, don't do it.

I they get drunk and make a baby, they're idrresponsible fuckwits. Their fault, no reason to kill a fture baby.

If people just had sex when they were ready for a baby, there would be no need for condoms.

If they can't feed teh baby, well, they're not ready.

- As everyone has said... i'll restate the point: You dont have to want a baby to have sex... getting drunk and having sex is an accident and yes is irresponsible but everyone makes mistakes but this irresponsibility really shows that they arent ready for parenthood. If people wanted the baby... they wouldnt need an abortion. If they cant feed the baby.. they're not ready.. why allow a child to be raised so poorly when u have a chance to prevent it???

if your stupid enough to get pregnant when you didnt want to, you deserve to be punished

- Punishing the child more... you're neglecting an innocent child to a hostile environment for their early years... there are other ways to punish these people...

What's wrong with putting them up for adoption or living in a foster home? One of my best freinds has 10 kids living in his house, 8 of them adopted. Their parents weren't ready, but teh children aren't dead. They live happy lives.

- Like Riot said.. think of how manmy unhappy ones there are...

If you're not responsible for doing something then don't do it.

- You only discover that u are irresposible after u commit the mistake.. tell me how u can go back in time to not do it...

Also, what if boyfriend/girlfriend had sex and they planned on having the baby but they boyfriend ran away because he got scared or something. Does that poor girl have to take care of the baby all by herself because she made an "irresponsible" move? When you do that you aren't only ruining the life of the young lady but you are also ruining whatever chance that baby has to live.

- I think this was one of our points... Drex is wrong.. seek legal advice!

Yes. "OMG, I had sex but I didn't wanted the baby. Ha! I know, I'll kill him"

- Women should have the choice in the right circumstance... if they were being downright stupid I cannot support them but if its in the bets interest of the unborn kid... then it should be considered (eg. if u cant raise the kid)

Sit (Go team!)

I dont believe in abortion, because if your stupid enough to get pregnant when you didnt want to, you deserve to be punished.

If your too much of an idiot to not use protection, then the babby is your problem. There is n "easy way out" there is no, "Whoops i'm a whore that got pregnant... Oh well! I'll just have an abortion!"

So abortion is wrong... period

Yeah I bet the rapist told the girl, "I'm about to fuck you -- you want me to wear this?"

Yeah, only stupid people get raped, Mazz.

Rape victims aren't always whores.

They deserve abortions, and you cannot convince me otherwise.

And abortions for some, should mean abortions for all.

Sex happens, and Riot brought up another great example of the 3% of the times where a condom does not work. Wake up, guys. Sex isn't just had to produce babies. People get wild, and most are responsible enough to use a condom. But sometimes the condom just doesn't work. What can you tell the mother now?

wow, rape victims and people that are too stupid to wear a condom are 2 completley different things

OMG, I'm not wrong, Sit

The thing is would you rather see the child suffer when he does get born because he also gets stuck with an irresponsible parent? what if the parents can't afford to raise the child.

They can give it to foster parents. There are a lot of families willing to take a baby. Families that can't have children on their own, so

what if the parent is ready to be a parent that he blames the child for ruining his life

I'm not sure what you mean here

that he's responsible, it might cause the child severe mental and emotional scars and sometimes even physical. won't you rather stop it before he's actually alive seeing as most abortions are done before the kid is actually alive

You're supporting abortion, that is killing a human life (I already explained what is a human life) instead of physical abuse, that is almost the same.

You guys are using the agrument "there are ways to stop things from getting pregant" and things like "if they aren't responsible enough to have a baby then don't do it!". But the thing is, PEOPLE AREN'T SMART!!! You can't act like everyone is educated, responsible and well financed. It doesn't happen like that in the real world!

You can't just say "maybe they should have done this or that" because they didn't!

If people made a mistake, aren't smart or responsible, the fucking solution is killing a future person? Don't you say "people learn from their mistakes"??? Isn't that the case here??

i agree with riot there. i mean in africa some people who have aids rape little girls coz they think having sex with children would make aids go away. hence the aids issue there is getting worse.

I don't. He's so American, and Americans help other countries, right? Why don't they (and everybody) send some people to teach africans what can happen if they have sex with little girls??

People get raped whether they like it or not. (it means In many cases their life is bad enough that they live in a bad neighbourhood, and now they become pregnant, you just don't care about what the woman feels do you? As if things were hard enough.

I know, but, how the fuck can somebody like getting raped??
Of course I care about the women feelings. That is probably the only valid point you guys have, and still is an inmoral thing.

- There is no scientific evidence that the foetus is alive at that stage

I already explained what is a human life.

- As everyone has said... i'll restate the point: You dont have to want a baby to have sex... getting drunk and having sex is an accident and yes is irresponsible but everyone makes mistakes but this irresponsibility really shows that they arent ready for parenthood. If people wanted the baby... they wouldnt need an abortion. If they cant feed the baby.. they're not ready.. why allow a child to be raised so poorly when u have a chance to prevent it???

By killing it?? If people made a mistake why should they have the right to kill their mistake? And they can also give their baby to another family.
Why don't they masturbate? Is almost the same

- Punishing the child more... you're neglecting an innocent child to a hostile environment for their early years... there are other ways to punish these people...

Give the baby to somebody else. You won't be commiting a crime and the kid will be safe And, what other ways of punishing that people?? Have in their conscience (sp?) that they killed somebody??

- Like Riot said.. think of how manmy unhappy ones there are...

Think of how many of them are happy, and how many will think that they will not do the same to their kids. People that live in the worst conditions when they're kids usually are strongest when they grow up (I'm not saying everybody should be poor when they are kids, but, think of all the NBA players that fought for having a better life)

- You only discover that u are irresposible after u commit the mistake.. tell me how u can go back in time to not do it...

You cant'! Is simple. What's done is done. You're not a god to take somebody's life.

- I think this was one of our points... Drex is wrong.. seek legal advice!

If you do adult things you should be ready for the consequences. How many 12 years-old (Hahahaha, G.O.A.T. ) doesn't know how babies are made??

- Women should have the choice in the right circumstance... if they were being downright stupid I cannot support them but if its in the bets interest of the unborn kid... then it should be considered (eg. if u cant raise the kid)

What's the "right" circumstance?? Getting raped?? That's probably the only valid point in your whole argument.
What's the point of having sex? To have kids!!! I know, I know, for some fun...but probably you can do other things to get an orgasm and be safe.

Go Yinka

How many 12 years-old (Hahahaha, G.O.A.T. ) doesn't know how babies are made??

I know a WHOLE lot more than you guys think

To contribute to the converation, do not kill the baby, give it to a foster home. There may be some that are unhappy, but I garuntee you that every single one of them (spare a few Goths) would rather live in a foster home than be killed.