Word.Don wrote:Everyone should just come live in Holland and see that the use of marijuana isn't as bad as people make it out to be.
Word.Don wrote:Now now Indy, I said I hated Holland, not marijuana.
That is all.
Smoke it up....
by cklitsie on Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:06 am
That is all.
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cklitsie - Posts: 6511
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by j.23 on Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:49 am
damn, how the hell did i blow past this topic. anyways, i enjoy smoking marijuana because it makes me relax. i'm not one of those people who get absolutely ripped and go out in public to make an ass out of myself. the great thing about the "drug" is that it slows down your inhibitions and makes you not give a shit. i'm constantly stressed out so in a way this is a good escape for me -- mind you, i do it in moderation; i don't smoke more than once a week.
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j.23 - Posts: 2894
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by Nick on Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:28 am
I used to smoke a bit of weed due to hanging around the wrong crowd when i was around 14. We're talking smoking dirty bongs under train station bridges and shit like that.
I'm glad i got out of that, because most of those people that i used to hang around with continued smoking weed way too much and are pretty fucked up now. Most of them moved onto harder drugs as weed was no longer enough for them.
With that said though i don't get the big deal with it, if you can control yourself. I'll still have a joint every 4 months or so. It doesn't tickle my fancy all that much. I don't like lacking control and the fast heart rate makes me uncomfortable. However if there's some there, i'll take it, because i enjoy the concept of chilling on couches with friends sharing a joint. It's just something that i don't mind doing, because i can. It doesn't harm me in the long run because i dont feel the urge to go out of my way to get some constantly. So fuck it, i'll do what i want.
It was Riot who posted a bunch of facts as to why marijuana is so bad, but I don't think anyone can justify why it should be illegal when alcohol and ciggerettes aren't. Most things that can be said for marijuana, similar and some times worse things can be said about alcohol and cigerrettes.
I think when you inhale any kind of toxic smoke, it's gonna cause some harm.
The truth is that the weed will harm the lungs even more so than ciggerrettes if mixed with tobacco. Something to do with the tobacco opening something up in your body, and the weed gets in easier. Or maybe the other way around.
But straight weed, no way it's just as harmful for the lungs as ciggerettes. Way too many chemicals in ciggerrettes. And let's not forget that ciggerettes cause about 4 times (if not more) as many deaths over things such as murder, car accidents, drugs, etc. I can't give a source link on this, as i saw it on a cigerrette packet.
How very trivial. Shall we get into how alcohol changes your behavior? You can blow up the effects that getting high will have on you, and say similar, if not worse, things about alcohol. Remembering alcohol is legal.
- The heart can be affected by the vitamin deficiencies caused alcohol. The pumping action of the heart is weakened. Heart failure can result from this.
- Each year, tobacco smoking accounts for around approximately 20% of all heart disease deaths. At least 80% of heart attacks in men under 45 are thought to be due to cigarette smoking. A cigarette smoker has two to three times the risk of having a heart attack than a non-smoker.
- Poor diet and physical inactivity are common risk factors for heart disease.
- Compared to nonsmokers, men who smoke are about 23 times more likely to develop lung cancer and women who smoke are about 13 times more likely.
- Smoking causes about 90% of lung cancer deaths in men and almost 80% in women.
- The combination of smoking and alcohol consumption causes most laryngeal cancer cases. In 2003, an estimated 3800 deaths occurred from laryngeal cancer. (US)
- Cigarette smoking increases the risk of developing mouth cancers.
- The 2004 Surgeon General's report adds more evidence to previous conclusions that smoking causes cancers of the oral cavity, pharynx, larynx, esophagus, lung and bladder.
- The 2004 Surgeon General's report newly identifies other cancers caused by smoking, including cancers of the stomach, cervix, kidney, and pancreas and acute myeloid leukemia.
- Smokers are 4 times more likely than nonsmokers to get life-threatening blood infections or meningitis. This increased risk of infections lasts for 10 years after quitting.
- "Alcohol use impairs the body’s defense against pathogens infecting the lungs. Impairment from alcohol use can increase a person’s risk for various illnesses including infectious diseases, such as tuberculosis, and certain types of cancer." - Alcohol Health and Research World, Gyongyi Szabo, MD, PhD, 1997
If a woman was stupid enough, she could replace marijuana with cigerettes and alcohol and harm the baby even further.
No it isn't.
( ^ That's just US alone)
More various statstics...
Alcohol
* More than 100,000 U.S. deaths are caused by excessive alcohol consumption each year. Direct and indirect causes of death include drunk driving, cirrhosis of the liver, falls, cancer, and stroke.1
* At least once a year, the guidelines for low risk drinking are exceeded by an estimated 74% of male drinkers and 72% of female drinkers aged 21 and older.2
* 65% of youth surveyed said that they got the alcohol they drink from family and friends.7
* Nearly 14 million Americans meet diagnostic criteria for alcohol use disorders.5
* Youth who drink alcohol are 50 times more likely to use cocaine than those who never drink alcohol.3
* Among current adult drinkers, more than half say they have a blood relative who is or was an alcoholic or problem drinker.1
* Across people of all ages, males are four times as likely as females to be heavy drinkers.1
* More than 18% of Americans experience alcohol abuse or alcohol dependence at some time in their lives.6
* Traffic crashes are the greatest single cause of death for persons aged 6–33. About 45% of these fatalities are in alcohol-related crashes.4
* Underage drinking costs the United States more than $58 billion every year — enough to buy every public school student a state-of-the-art computer.2
* Alcohol is the most commonly used drug among young people.1
* Problem drinkers average four times as many days in the hospital as nondrinkers — mostly because of drinking-related injuries.1
* Alcohol kills 6½ times more youth than all other illicit drugs combined.2
* Concerning the past 30 days, 50% of high school seniors report drinking, with 32% report being drunk at least once.2
Sources
1 Substance Abuse: The Nation’s Number One Health Problem, Feb. 2001
2 Mothers Against Drunk Driving
3 National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse
4 National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
5 Alcohol Health & Research World
6 National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism Analysis
7 The Century Council
(Source)
SMOKING
* About a third of the male adult global population smokes.
* Smoking related-diseases kill one in 10 adults globally, or cause four million deaths. By 2030, if current trends continue, smoking will kill one in six people.
* Every eight seconds, someone dies from tobacco use.
* Smoking is on the rise in the developing world but falling in developed nations. Among Americans, smoking rates shrunk by nearly half in three decades (from the mid-1960s to mid-1990s), falling to 23% of adults by 1997. In the developing world, tobacco consumption is rising by 3.4% per year.
* About 15 billion cigarettes are sold daily - or 10 million every minute.
* About 12 times more British people have died from smoking than from World War II.
* Cigarettes cause more than one in five American deaths.
* Among WHO Regions, the Western Pacific Region* - which covers East Asia and the Pacific - has the highest smoking rate, with nearly two-thirds of men smoking.
* About one in three cigarettes are consumed in the Western Pacific Region.
* The tobacco market is controlled by just a few corporations - namely American, British and Japanese multinational conglomerates.
Youth
* Among young teens (aged 13 to 15), about one in five smokes worldwide.
* Between 80,000 and 100,000 children worldwide start smoking every day - roughly half of whom live in Asia.
* Evidence shows that around 50% of those who start smoking in adolescent years go on to smoke for 15 to 20 years.
* Peer-reviewed studies show teenagers are heavily influenced by tobacco advertising.
* About a quarter of youth alive in the Western Pacific Region will die from smoking.
Health
* Half of long-term smokers will die from tobacco. Every cigarette smoked cuts at least five minutes of life on average - about the time taken to smoke it.
* Smoking is the single largest preventable cause of disease and premature death. It is a prime factor in heart disease, stroke and chronic lung disease. It can cause cancer of the lungs, larynx, oesophagus, mouth, and bladder, and contributes to cancer of the cervix, pancreas, and kidneys.
* More than 4,000 toxic or carcinogenic chemicals have been found in tobacco smoke.
* One British survey found that nearly 99% of women did not know of the link between smoking and cervical cancer.
* One survey found that 60% of Chinese adults did not know that smoking can cause lung cancer while 96% were unaware it can cause heart disease.
* At least a quarter of all deaths from heart diseases and about three-quarters of world's chronic bronchitis are related to smoking.
* Smoking-related diseases cost the United States more than $150 billion a year.
* Source
Especially since you've never tried it yourself, Riot, i don't think you're really in a place to comment. You can post as many statistics as you like but don't you think it's pretty obvious that market value is the only reason why cigerrettes and alcohol are illegal when marijuana isn't? I mean, i'm not saying marijuana is harmless. It can cause some serious psychological damange in the long term if overused, but so can alcohol. And smoking will just straight up kill you (i really need to stop). It's like anything really, use in moderation and you're fine.
I'd like to see how you can justify why marijuana should be legal over alcohol and ciggerettes. (Man, this post took me like 80 minutes to construct.
)
I'm glad i got out of that, because most of those people that i used to hang around with continued smoking weed way too much and are pretty fucked up now. Most of them moved onto harder drugs as weed was no longer enough for them.
With that said though i don't get the big deal with it, if you can control yourself. I'll still have a joint every 4 months or so. It doesn't tickle my fancy all that much. I don't like lacking control and the fast heart rate makes me uncomfortable. However if there's some there, i'll take it, because i enjoy the concept of chilling on couches with friends sharing a joint. It's just something that i don't mind doing, because i can. It doesn't harm me in the long run because i dont feel the urge to go out of my way to get some constantly. So fuck it, i'll do what i want.
It was Riot who posted a bunch of facts as to why marijuana is so bad, but I don't think anyone can justify why it should be illegal when alcohol and ciggerettes aren't. Most things that can be said for marijuana, similar and some times worse things can be said about alcohol and cigerrettes.
Riot wrote:1). Studies show smoking marijuana is just as harmful to the lungs as smoking cigarettes. When you smoke weed you are hurting your lungs. (Source)
I think when you inhale any kind of toxic smoke, it's gonna cause some harm.
The truth is that the weed will harm the lungs even more so than ciggerrettes if mixed with tobacco. Something to do with the tobacco opening something up in your body, and the weed gets in easier. Or maybe the other way around.But straight weed, no way it's just as harmful for the lungs as ciggerettes. Way too many chemicals in ciggerrettes. And let's not forget that ciggerettes cause about 4 times (if not more) as many deaths over things such as murder, car accidents, drugs, etc. I can't give a source link on this, as i saw it on a cigerrette packet.
2). During your "high", you lose the ability to complete and do many tasks and you lose your short term memory. The effects are extremely similar to that of drinking extremely heavily. The possiblity of people driving high or getting involved in immature sexual behavior is extremely high. Not to mention it is practically impossible to study or learn when on marijuana. You have a lot of kids dropping out of school or skipping school to smoke weed in today's high schools. I see it everyday. It ruins lives because you think it is more important than school.
How very trivial. Shall we get into how alcohol changes your behavior? You can blow up the effects that getting high will have on you, and say similar, if not worse, things about alcohol. Remembering alcohol is legal.
3). When you smoke marijuana your heart rate increases about 20-50 beats per minute. Your chance for a heart attack increases about four times during your "high period". You are putting your heart at risk when you smoke weed.
- The heart can be affected by the vitamin deficiencies caused alcohol. The pumping action of the heart is weakened. Heart failure can result from this.
- Each year, tobacco smoking accounts for around approximately 20% of all heart disease deaths. At least 80% of heart attacks in men under 45 are thought to be due to cigarette smoking. A cigarette smoker has two to three times the risk of having a heart attack than a non-smoker.
- Poor diet and physical inactivity are common risk factors for heart disease.
4). A study showed marijuana smokers are three times more likely to get cancer in the neck or head than non-smokers.
- Compared to nonsmokers, men who smoke are about 23 times more likely to develop lung cancer and women who smoke are about 13 times more likely.
- Smoking causes about 90% of lung cancer deaths in men and almost 80% in women.
- The combination of smoking and alcohol consumption causes most laryngeal cancer cases. In 2003, an estimated 3800 deaths occurred from laryngeal cancer. (US)
- Cigarette smoking increases the risk of developing mouth cancers.
- The 2004 Surgeon General's report adds more evidence to previous conclusions that smoking causes cancers of the oral cavity, pharynx, larynx, esophagus, lung and bladder.
- The 2004 Surgeon General's report newly identifies other cancers caused by smoking, including cancers of the stomach, cervix, kidney, and pancreas and acute myeloid leukemia.
5). THC effects your IMMUNE SYSTEM. If you smoke pot your immune system will get weaker and weaker. Later in life that will hurt your bodies ability to fight diseases or viruses. It also increases your chance for tumors.
- Smokers are 4 times more likely than nonsmokers to get life-threatening blood infections or meningitis. This increased risk of infections lasts for 10 years after quitting.
- "Alcohol use impairs the body’s defense against pathogens infecting the lungs. Impairment from alcohol use can increase a person’s risk for various illnesses including infectious diseases, such as tuberculosis, and certain types of cancer." - Alcohol Health and Research World, Gyongyi Szabo, MD, PhD, 1997
6). Mothers who use marijuana while pregnant can cause severe damage to their baby.
If a woman was stupid enough, she could replace marijuana with cigerettes and alcohol and harm the baby even further.
7). Research shows that smoking marijuana is more harmful to your lungs and body than smoking cigarettes. You breathe in deeper and hold the smoke in your lungs and that causes more damage to them than regular smoking. Plus, marijuana contains more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than cigarettes. It's more dangerous than cigarettes. It's more dangerous than alcohol.
No it isn't.
( ^ That's just US alone)
More various statstics...
Alcohol
* More than 100,000 U.S. deaths are caused by excessive alcohol consumption each year. Direct and indirect causes of death include drunk driving, cirrhosis of the liver, falls, cancer, and stroke.1
* At least once a year, the guidelines for low risk drinking are exceeded by an estimated 74% of male drinkers and 72% of female drinkers aged 21 and older.2
* 65% of youth surveyed said that they got the alcohol they drink from family and friends.7
* Nearly 14 million Americans meet diagnostic criteria for alcohol use disorders.5
* Youth who drink alcohol are 50 times more likely to use cocaine than those who never drink alcohol.3
* Among current adult drinkers, more than half say they have a blood relative who is or was an alcoholic or problem drinker.1
* Across people of all ages, males are four times as likely as females to be heavy drinkers.1
* More than 18% of Americans experience alcohol abuse or alcohol dependence at some time in their lives.6
* Traffic crashes are the greatest single cause of death for persons aged 6–33. About 45% of these fatalities are in alcohol-related crashes.4
* Underage drinking costs the United States more than $58 billion every year — enough to buy every public school student a state-of-the-art computer.2
* Alcohol is the most commonly used drug among young people.1
* Problem drinkers average four times as many days in the hospital as nondrinkers — mostly because of drinking-related injuries.1
* Alcohol kills 6½ times more youth than all other illicit drugs combined.2
* Concerning the past 30 days, 50% of high school seniors report drinking, with 32% report being drunk at least once.2
Sources
1 Substance Abuse: The Nation’s Number One Health Problem, Feb. 2001
2 Mothers Against Drunk Driving
3 National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse
4 National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
5 Alcohol Health & Research World
6 National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism Analysis
7 The Century Council
(Source)
SMOKING
* About a third of the male adult global population smokes.
* Smoking related-diseases kill one in 10 adults globally, or cause four million deaths. By 2030, if current trends continue, smoking will kill one in six people.
* Every eight seconds, someone dies from tobacco use.
* Smoking is on the rise in the developing world but falling in developed nations. Among Americans, smoking rates shrunk by nearly half in three decades (from the mid-1960s to mid-1990s), falling to 23% of adults by 1997. In the developing world, tobacco consumption is rising by 3.4% per year.
* About 15 billion cigarettes are sold daily - or 10 million every minute.
* About 12 times more British people have died from smoking than from World War II.
* Cigarettes cause more than one in five American deaths.
* Among WHO Regions, the Western Pacific Region* - which covers East Asia and the Pacific - has the highest smoking rate, with nearly two-thirds of men smoking.
* About one in three cigarettes are consumed in the Western Pacific Region.
* The tobacco market is controlled by just a few corporations - namely American, British and Japanese multinational conglomerates.
Youth
* Among young teens (aged 13 to 15), about one in five smokes worldwide.
* Between 80,000 and 100,000 children worldwide start smoking every day - roughly half of whom live in Asia.
* Evidence shows that around 50% of those who start smoking in adolescent years go on to smoke for 15 to 20 years.
* Peer-reviewed studies show teenagers are heavily influenced by tobacco advertising.
* About a quarter of youth alive in the Western Pacific Region will die from smoking.
Health
* Half of long-term smokers will die from tobacco. Every cigarette smoked cuts at least five minutes of life on average - about the time taken to smoke it.
* Smoking is the single largest preventable cause of disease and premature death. It is a prime factor in heart disease, stroke and chronic lung disease. It can cause cancer of the lungs, larynx, oesophagus, mouth, and bladder, and contributes to cancer of the cervix, pancreas, and kidneys.
* More than 4,000 toxic or carcinogenic chemicals have been found in tobacco smoke.
* One British survey found that nearly 99% of women did not know of the link between smoking and cervical cancer.
* One survey found that 60% of Chinese adults did not know that smoking can cause lung cancer while 96% were unaware it can cause heart disease.
* At least a quarter of all deaths from heart diseases and about three-quarters of world's chronic bronchitis are related to smoking.
* Smoking-related diseases cost the United States more than $150 billion a year.
* Source
Especially since you've never tried it yourself, Riot, i don't think you're really in a place to comment. You can post as many statistics as you like but don't you think it's pretty obvious that market value is the only reason why cigerrettes and alcohol are illegal when marijuana isn't? I mean, i'm not saying marijuana is harmless. It can cause some serious psychological damange in the long term if overused, but so can alcohol. And smoking will just straight up kill you (i really need to stop). It's like anything really, use in moderation and you're fine.
I'd like to see how you can justify why marijuana should be legal over alcohol and ciggerettes. (Man, this post took me like 80 minutes to construct.
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Nick - Barnsketball
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- Location: Melbourne, Australia
way to put in some effort nick...great post and reasonable and thought out with backup to your claims 
by Christopherson on Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:38 am
Fantastic post Nick, some very interesting information. I know that pot isn't really any worse than alcohol or tobacco. I really haven't been trying to argue that all along. The thing I am arguing is that just because pot isn't worse than those two, doesn't mean that we should socially accept it. I personally don't think we should socially accept tobacco use. Alcohol use is very borderline in my opinion. I really dispise people who drink heavily. I think our society is head towards a world with no morals. We just keep making more and more illicit behaviors socially acceptable.
Go Zags!
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Christopherson - Posts: 610
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by cyanide on Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:56 am
Christopherson wrote:The thing I am arguing is that just because pot isn't worse than those two, doesn't mean that we should socially accept it. I personally don't think we should socially accept tobacco use. Alcohol use is very borderline in my opinion. I really dispise people who drink heavily. I think our society is head towards a world with no morals. We just keep making more and more illicit behaviors socially acceptable.
Not taking away Nick's fantastic post, but Christopherson's post is excellent too, and something I strongly agree with.
if you were killed tomorrow, i WOULDNT GO 2 UR FUNERAL CUZ ID B N JAIL 4 KILLIN THE MOTHA FUCKER THAT KILLED U!
......|..___________________, ,
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...../==o;;;;;;;;______.:/
.....), ---.(_(__) /
....// (..) ), ----"
...//___//
..//___//
.//___//
WE TRUE HOMIES
WE RIDE TOGETHER
WE DIE TOGETHER
......|..___________________, ,
....../ `---______----|]
...../==o;;;;;;;;______.:/
.....), ---.(_(__) /
....// (..) ), ----"
...//___//
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WE TRUE HOMIES
WE RIDE TOGETHER
WE DIE TOGETHER
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cyanide - Dat steatopygous
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by Indy on Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:04 am
Christopherson wrote:Fantastic post Nick, some very interesting information. I know that pot isn't really any worse than alcohol or tobacco. I really haven't been trying to argue that all along. The thing I am arguing is that just because pot isn't worse than those two, doesn't mean that we should socially accept it. I personally don't think we should socially accept tobacco use. Alcohol use is very borderline in my opinion. I really dispise people who drink heavily. I think our society is head towards a world with no morals. We just keep making more and more illicit behaviors socially acceptable.
This isn't about social acceptance it's about having the freedom to do as you please in a democratic society. If weed were legalized then people who choose to use it can do so without having to worry about being arrested for something petty and silly.
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by Christopherson on Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:15 am
Petty and silly, in your opinoin. Remember, laws in a democratic society are made up of the opinions of all, not the opinions of one.
Go Zags!
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by Indy on Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:21 am
Christopherson wrote:Petty and silly, in your opinoin. Remember, laws in a democratic society are made up of the opinions of all, not the opinions of one.
So you think that it is not a waste of prison space and money to spend on offenders who just like to get high? They never harmed anyone, just liked to smoke some weed, and they go to jail. That's right?
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Indy - Posts: 5240
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by Christopherson on Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:00 am
To say they never harmed anyone would not nescessarily be an accurate statement. 
I would definitly like to sew the laws strengthened against distribution and growing marajuana. If you make it not worth while to make and sell the stuff, then the use will go away. This is a case where I think shrinking the supply wouldn't make the demand rise. I don't think people would be willing to pay top dollor just to get high.
As for it being a waste of prision space and money, sure it might be excessive to send everyone nailed with possession to prison. Alot of people make an argument for legalization by saying the government could tax the sale of it and make a fortune. Well what if the government just made possession a $1000 fine? Wouldn't it create just as much revenue?
My feelings about our current prision system aren't very positive. I think we could house prisioners for far cheaper. They don't need cable TV. They don't need good meals. In my opinion, send them to work. The ones that work will pay for all of their expenses and be afforded the luxaries of cable television, etc. That is how it works in the real world. You don't get those kids of luxaries unless you work for them. If I was a homeless person right now, the first thing I would do is get my ass thrown in jail. Hell, inmates these days have it better than most of our soldiers.
I would definitly like to sew the laws strengthened against distribution and growing marajuana. If you make it not worth while to make and sell the stuff, then the use will go away. This is a case where I think shrinking the supply wouldn't make the demand rise. I don't think people would be willing to pay top dollor just to get high.
As for it being a waste of prision space and money, sure it might be excessive to send everyone nailed with possession to prison. Alot of people make an argument for legalization by saying the government could tax the sale of it and make a fortune. Well what if the government just made possession a $1000 fine? Wouldn't it create just as much revenue?
My feelings about our current prision system aren't very positive. I think we could house prisioners for far cheaper. They don't need cable TV. They don't need good meals. In my opinion, send them to work. The ones that work will pay for all of their expenses and be afforded the luxaries of cable television, etc. That is how it works in the real world. You don't get those kids of luxaries unless you work for them. If I was a homeless person right now, the first thing I would do is get my ass thrown in jail. Hell, inmates these days have it better than most of our soldiers.
Go Zags!
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Christopherson - Posts: 610
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by Indy on Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:15 am
Christopherson wrote:I would definitly like to sew the laws strengthened against distribution and growing marajuana. If you make it not worth while to make and sell the stuff, then the use will go away. This is a case where I think shrinking the supply wouldn't make the demand rise. I don't think people would be willing to pay top dollor just to get high.
There's no way you can actually believe this. What a load of shit. If only everything was that easy.
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Indy - Posts: 5240
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by Christopherson on Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:34 am
I know it isn't quite that easy, but it is definatley a place to start. I like the idea of trying to protect morals and values rather than just sitting back and watching them go up in smoke and not giving a damn. I am a parent, and the thought of my child growing up in the world that we are headed towards scares me.
Go Zags!
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Christopherson - Posts: 610
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by Oznogrd on Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:34 am
you know you get more jail time for possession of weed than heroin? explain that one to me. The laws need to be constantly updated/looked at...but our government is so at odds with bipartisan politics nothing is giong to change any time soon. I see your point about us not making it socially acceptable but i'm with Indy on this. It is ridiculous it is clogging up our prisons and if people want to smoke a little weed in the privacy of their homes, they should be allowed to. The whole idea of making it almost a no profit endeavor would put an end to use is untrue, they already did that back in the 30's and that didnt stop it. All that would happen is the weed would become less pure to adjust to the costs, and therefore even more dangerous than before, including more crime associated with it to smuggle it and get away from the taxes. Remember prohibition?
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by Christopherson on Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:03 am
Illini, last time I checked, possesion of marijana dudn't cary any jail sentence. It is just a misdemeanor offense. So what you said isn't true.
I said nothing about making it a no profit endeavor. What I said was that if we make and enforce laws that make distribution and production of pot a heavily punished offense then it will become more and more risky to engage in activity involving pot. The more risk, the less people there will be to supply the pot. The less the supply of the pot, the more the demand, thus driving up the price. If we cut off the supply enough, the price will be so high that I do not believe will be willing to pay for the weed.
As for your comparrison to prohibition, you are comparing apples to oranges here. Prohibition mades something socially acceptable (drinking alcohol) into something that was all of the sudden punishible under the law. Last time I checked, pot isn't legal, and hasn't yet become socially acceptable. So your whole point about more crime associated with smuggling it, IT ALREADY HAS TO BE PRODUCED UNDERGROUND!!!! And no, I don't remember prohibition, neither do you. We have read about it in books. You can't get a true feel for the socially accepted practices of an era unless you either experienced it or have done EXTENSIVE research about it, which neither of us have.
I said nothing about making it a no profit endeavor. What I said was that if we make and enforce laws that make distribution and production of pot a heavily punished offense then it will become more and more risky to engage in activity involving pot. The more risk, the less people there will be to supply the pot. The less the supply of the pot, the more the demand, thus driving up the price. If we cut off the supply enough, the price will be so high that I do not believe will be willing to pay for the weed.
As for your comparrison to prohibition, you are comparing apples to oranges here. Prohibition mades something socially acceptable (drinking alcohol) into something that was all of the sudden punishible under the law. Last time I checked, pot isn't legal, and hasn't yet become socially acceptable. So your whole point about more crime associated with smuggling it, IT ALREADY HAS TO BE PRODUCED UNDERGROUND!!!! And no, I don't remember prohibition, neither do you. We have read about it in books. You can't get a true feel for the socially accepted practices of an era unless you either experienced it or have done EXTENSIVE research about it, which neither of us have.
Go Zags!
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by Oznogrd on Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:20 am
I apologize for my misunderstanding of the penalties' law, what was said to me was that the punishments are the SAME for heroin and marijuana. You can get jail time for marijuana, just has to be repeated offenses/more than would be ruled "just your own stash" I have a friend in jail right now for it. Guy would never hurt a fly and used to play basketball with me...however the weed might explain his inconsistent play....however i will admit i was wrong on the possession parts of the law. However i still agree its ridiculous they carry the same punishments....
For anyone Interested:
http://www.taima.org/en/mjmyths.htm
Cites facts and where the studies are for you to research yourself if you so choose/are in disbelief....
If people were unwilling to pay for weed, that would make it a nonprofit endeavor by logic. But if the history of drug culture has taught us anything, people will find a way to get it around the government and make money. Shit look at cocaine right now. It still sells in large amounts so i dont know what makes you think weed would be any different. By making penalties worse, we encourage EVEN SHADIER practices than we already do. For example. mixing the weed with other less pure things in order to keep prices semi-affordable. Drug distribution is bad enough as it is..we dont need to make it more criminal. No we werent alive during prohibition, but i'm just stating, making it a high risk behavior doesnt make it end: citing Prohibition as a historical example of something where laws made the penalty greater than the "demand" but not obeyed. Plenty of people didnt drink during the Prohibition era, just as plenty of people wouldnt smoke weed. But some ALWAYS will. There is always expendable money in a culture like ours and people will always spend it on something to get "high".
For anyone Interested:
http://www.taima.org/en/mjmyths.htm
Cites facts and where the studies are for you to research yourself if you so choose/are in disbelief....
If people were unwilling to pay for weed, that would make it a nonprofit endeavor by logic. But if the history of drug culture has taught us anything, people will find a way to get it around the government and make money. Shit look at cocaine right now. It still sells in large amounts so i dont know what makes you think weed would be any different. By making penalties worse, we encourage EVEN SHADIER practices than we already do. For example. mixing the weed with other less pure things in order to keep prices semi-affordable. Drug distribution is bad enough as it is..we dont need to make it more criminal. No we werent alive during prohibition, but i'm just stating, making it a high risk behavior doesnt make it end: citing Prohibition as a historical example of something where laws made the penalty greater than the "demand" but not obeyed. Plenty of people didnt drink during the Prohibition era, just as plenty of people wouldnt smoke weed. But some ALWAYS will. There is always expendable money in a culture like ours and people will always spend it on something to get "high".
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Oznogrd - Gummy bears are stupid and delicious!
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by Christopherson on Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:27 am
As long as their are people out their with opinions like yours, we will never win the war on drugs. 
Go Zags!
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Christopherson - Posts: 610
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by Oznogrd on Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:34 am
or a war on terror, or any war on a vague abstract idea...but thats beside the point
I also need to point out something here. I have smoked once, spent no money on it, and it wasnt even recently. I am only fighting so hard because so many people stigmatize "stoners" when it is not deserved. Hell i used to do it, until I truly got to know some of the good ones. They're people just like everybody else and they deserve to live without prejudice just like anyone else. I know you're going to say that they choose to be stoners so its not a prejudice but in my mind, it'd be like holding it against someone because they play sports, or because they study etc.
And also, we're a republic not a democracy, the laws are made by SOME not ALL but i will agree thats mostly the fault of the people who dont vote.....
I also need to point out something here. I have smoked once, spent no money on it, and it wasnt even recently. I am only fighting so hard because so many people stigmatize "stoners" when it is not deserved. Hell i used to do it, until I truly got to know some of the good ones. They're people just like everybody else and they deserve to live without prejudice just like anyone else. I know you're going to say that they choose to be stoners so its not a prejudice but in my mind, it'd be like holding it against someone because they play sports, or because they study etc.
And also, we're a republic not a democracy, the laws are made by SOME not ALL but i will agree thats mostly the fault of the people who dont vote.....
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Oznogrd - Gummy bears are stupid and delicious!
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by [Q] on Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:44 am
Christopherson wrote:As long as their are people out their with opinions like yours, we will never win the war on drugs.
It is impossible to win the "war on drugs" or "war on terror" because there is too much money to be made in both. There will always be drug dealers willing to make money (and if you arrest them all, new dealers will step up). And this "war on terror" has shown that there's been too much money to be made by American oil companies and defense companies.
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[Q] - NBA Live 18 Advocate
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by Christopherson on Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:53 am
Yeah, but what it happening now is hardly what I would call "moderate and controll"
Go Zags!
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Christopherson - Posts: 610
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by Oznogrd on Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:59 am
I wanna propose something to you, just to get an idea of your beliefs/views. I think i know how you will answer but i want to see.
In some cities for heroin users they've started Needle Exchange Programs. If you know what they are already cool, this explanation is for people that dont. Rather than risking their needles be shared/picked up from who knows where: if the heroin users find a syringe, they can pick it up, take it to this place to be disposed of (that is funded by city/state taxes), and be handed a clean sterile needle. Obviously, this is to help prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS and lower overall healthcare costs for the community. However, it sends the message that its ok to be addicted to heroin in a way. To me: i think it shows some progressive thinking on the city's part. They knew an established problem and they knew harsher penalties were not going to make heroin disappear, so they started a program to help keep the problems to a minimum. Your thoughts?
In some cities for heroin users they've started Needle Exchange Programs. If you know what they are already cool, this explanation is for people that dont. Rather than risking their needles be shared/picked up from who knows where: if the heroin users find a syringe, they can pick it up, take it to this place to be disposed of (that is funded by city/state taxes), and be handed a clean sterile needle. Obviously, this is to help prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS and lower overall healthcare costs for the community. However, it sends the message that its ok to be addicted to heroin in a way. To me: i think it shows some progressive thinking on the city's part. They knew an established problem and they knew harsher penalties were not going to make heroin disappear, so they started a program to help keep the problems to a minimum. Your thoughts?
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Oznogrd - Gummy bears are stupid and delicious!
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by Oznogrd on Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:53 am
wankster, you got ripped off possibly...he might've just sold you oregano. and it takes more than one time to get high off weed for regular people, i'm just small so i get hit the first time (and i did like 9 hits but i just went to sleep). But smoking weed/doing any drug for ESCAPE is the wrong reason to do it...its never going to go well if you do it for those reasons.
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Oznogrd - Gummy bears are stupid and delicious!
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