What are you living FOR?

[J@3]

But you're the one claiming there's scientific evidence to support creation, so put up or shut up.

[H Rock]

14 reasons

[J@3]

That goes lengths to disprove the evolution theory, but doesn't actually prove creation at all.

[mark_30_112]

What I'm living for is, I guess I was born...

[Nick]

If i can't answer the thread's question, should i just end it now?

[bullsfan009]

you can't disprove or prove God/creation theory, and same goes for the view that there is no God (I'm not going to say evolution theory b/c evolution & God, even the Big Bang & God, go together for many...God "hit the GO button" sort of thing)

But it's supposed to be that way, IMO. What would be the point of faith if God's existence was a scientific fact? God want us to reach out, and believe, although not in a shot-in-the-dark, million-to-one, hoping & wishing kind of way.

There are many compelling arguments for the existence of God, that any honest person could follow. But you have to be open to the possibility of God, otherwise only a miracle will change someone's beliefs.

It's just like this: if a person absoultely refuses to believe that humans have landed on the moon, no matter how many documentaries, photographs, books, etc. they see saying otherwise, they still won't believe because they have closed their heart & mind to the possiblity.

The concept of God is so hard for so many people, I believe, because in many ways the beliefs go against human nature. For example, according to the Bible humans are at their greatest in servitude, although most people want to be served.


What's cool to me is the fact that no matter what you believe in, you have to put your FAITH into it, because nothing can be proven definitely. And to me, putting your faith in the fact that everything somehow started by itself, and evolved without a director/guide/creator/etc to the point that everything is at now isn't very logical, (check out this site that tried to calculate the ODDS OF CHANCE EVOLUTION: http://starsandcoffee.christian-astronomers.org/Library/odds_of_evolution.htm), and it sure isn't very fulfilling/encouraging/hope-inspiring.

[bullsfan009]

If i can't answer the thread's question, should i just end it now?

No way man- it's a process for every single person, no matter what beliefs they have.

[Jona]

And to me, putting your faith in the fact that everything somehow started by itself, and evolved without a director/guide/creator/etc to the point that everything is at now isn't very logical, (check out this site that tried to calculate the ODDS OF CHANCE EVOLUTION: http://starsandcoffee.christian-astrono ... lution.htm), and it sure isn't very fulfilling/encouraging/hope-inspiring.

I believe Darwin's evolutionary theory has got to be one of the greatest human advancement in science ever, even bigger than Einstein's theory of relativity. (Unfortunately that's gotta be because for the most part I do not understand Einstein's one. )
I think that website acted through biased and uninformed procedures and is not a formal scientific piece of evidence.

As an agnostic, I find your faith in God and religion admirable.
If you act by your own principles (even though supported by religious dogmas) and try to make good in a fair and non-proselytized way, I applaud you.

[bullsfan009]

You are right about that website, if you look in the URL it says "christian-astronomers." But I've also heard the statistic (I don't know if the #s were the same but the odds were equally mind-boggling) on a documentary on TV that was trying to be non-biased.

Yes, Darwin & Einstein made remarkable progress in science, they made amazing discoveries...although it is unfortunate to me that people take their discoveries as substitutes for God, instead of them uncovering the soooo complex nature of God's world...

thanks for the props, Jona , I'm trying not to get caught up in the dogma as much as just using the weapon of love in the world like Jesus was talking about. Fretting over rules and traditions was what got the Pharisees reprimanded. Although some are important...one can (almost ) never make absolute statements I'm finding out


and I was just wondering (not questioning/challenging you, just wondering): are you agnostic in the meaning that you don't know if God exists, or in that you (and everyone) [can't] know if God exists?

[AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy]

I believe Darwin's evolutionary theory has got to be one of the greatest human advancement in science ever, even bigger than Einstein's theory of relativity.

the Darwinian theory is man-focused, while Einstein's General Theory of Relativity is Universe-focused...

As far as the practical results of each theory, Darwinism is miles ahead for now. But Relativity opens a whle new viewpoint regarding Tima and Space, and thsi affects man amongst everything else...

Do not forget Bohr, Planck and Heisenberg, the pioneers of quantum theory. Almost all of modern technology would be non-feasible without that knowledge. Even your own TV.

[Jona]

As an agnostic I propose the idea that the certain knowledge (gnosis) of the existance deities cannot be (a).

No one can KNOW if there is a God, as know one can know if there is NOT.
I prefer to be in a state of permanent doubt, since I don't find the idea of religion or God to be necessary in my life.

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice".
Does anyone recognize the quote?

[bullsfan009]

I like finding the reasons behind different people's viewpoints, so thank you for explaining.

Being an aspiring psychologist (or are you already one?), have you ever looked into Near-Death Experiences (NDEs)? What do you think of them? Many of those people would contend that they KNOW there is a God (they've met Him! )Here's an article I read on the subject "Are NDE's Spiritual?", off of the Near Death Experiences Research Foundation website. It's supposed to be non-biased to any creed.

http://www.nderf.org/religion_spirituality.htm

[The GOAT]

I live for basketball and girls

[AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy]

If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice

Freewill?

I prefer to be in a state of permanent doubt, since I don't find the idea of religion or God to be necessary in my life

Permanent questioning, yes, permanent doubt, no. Doubt corrodes human integrity. You must always know where you stand in order to be effective. Question everything, yet doubt nothing.

[Nick]

If i can't answer the thread's question, should i just end it now?

No way man- it's a process for every single person, no matter what beliefs they have.

Joke. It was a joke. Gawd.

[Jona]

Being an aspiring psychologist (or are you already one?), have you ever looked into Near-Death Experiences (NDEs)? What do you think of them? Many of those people would contend that they KNOW there is a God (they've met Him! )Here's an article I read on the subject "Are NDE's Spiritual?", off of the Near Death Experiences Research Foundation website. It's supposed to be non-biased to any creed.

I'm an aspiring PSYCHIATRIST. (Not Psychologist.)

Dude, nice article, good find. From my point of view, a NDE is something so uncommon, it most certainly has the potential to change a person's life. I think if the conditions are appropriate, a "faith revelation" or whatever you want to call it is a very plausible behaviour in any individual.

Did you notice the author is a J.D. (title given to a third-year law student)?
Weird, the last profession I imagined her having is lawyer. No, that was cook. But lawyer was pretty close.

Freewill?

Are you a Rush fan!?!?
Nah, what am I saying, you googled it, you weasel.

[AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy]

a NDE is something so uncommon, it most certainly has the potential to change a person's life. I think if the conditions are appropriate, a "faith revelation" or whatever you want to call it is a very plausible behaviour in any individual.

It's the strength of belief. It does not matter what you believe in, but the fervor of belief by itself is enough to elevate a person. It's called 'drive'.

Are you a Rush fan!?!?

Hell no, I hate them.

you googled it, you weasel.

Hell no, again. I may hate them, but I've heard their songs. regrettably. Freewill is barely audible, though.

[Jona]

WHOA! Watch you mouth dude. You don't want to mess with me and Cam.

EDIT: And Cable Guy.

[Cable]

Don't leave me out

[AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy]

You don't want to mess with me and Cam.

Bring it on, kiddos. Rush SUCK!

[Jona]

How can you say it "suck". Rush has got to be one of the most influential rock bands in the past century man. I bet a lot of the artists you listen to have plenty of Rush influence in their music.

Unless you only hear to Greek traditional music, but I doubt that.

[AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy]

I bet a lot of the artists you listen to have plenty of Rush influence in their music.

I can only think of Metallica.

As a part-time musician and a hobbyist myself, I appreciate the complexity of their music and the innovation in their tunes, but it just does not add up to me.

Metallica, Dream Theater and maybe the Smashing Pumpkins took elements of their sound and turned it into something much more coherent and solid, in my opinion always.

In a few words, I do appreciate their contribution, I merely do not like listening to them, except maybe a song or two. hence, they SUCK.

[Jona]

LOL, you're impossible.

Anyways, how long has it been since you've listened to Of Wolf And Man?

[AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy]

Anyways, how long has it been since you've listened to Of Wolf And Man?

Quite some time. That's one of the few Metallica songs I don't really like.

[Jona]

What do you like then!?