Why did we invade Iraq, Daddy?

[cyanide]

http://www.alternet.org/story/11592 read that.

That's an excellent link Number 1, 3, and 10 pretty much sums it up.

[Indy]

http://www.alternet.org/story/11592 read that.

That's an excellent link Number 1, 3, and 10 pretty much sums it up.

for the people who are too lazy to read the whole thing at least read 7 and 8.

[Matthew]

what dont you believe? that the US wanted a militaristic dictator??? come on! this isnt the first time theyve dont this. they overthrew the democratic government in chile and installed dictator pinochet. the helped in the assasination of the democratically elected president diem in south korea and installed a dictatorship!! this should hardly come as a surprise that the united states foriegn policy has never been pro-democracy in any way shape or form.

http://www.alternet.org/story/11592 read that.

Even if these stories are true, its not George Bush behind them.

As for the credibility of the site, heres a few that shoot it down from their fron page:

"Annalee Newitz:
B-blogs
Blogs challenge what makes for valuable or credible speech, which is not at all the same thing as free speech."

"Molly Ivins:
Giving Bush's Retreads the Byrd
In the magical upside-down world of right-wing blogs, it is now an accepted article of faith that Sen. Robert Byrd compared George W. Bush to Hitler last week."

"Robert Scheer:
Bush is Obsessed With Fixing What Ain't Broke
As George W. Bush continues to flail at Social Security, even in the face of increased public opposition, you have to wonder: "Why?""

In other words, it looks like an version of nbalive.org for news, where nothing is credible.

[Indy]

Even if these stories are true, its not George Bush behind them.

who said george bush was behind them? i was just pointing out how amazingly anti-democtratic the united states foriegn policy has always been and will continue to be.

and to say a news source is as credible as a video game forum is a pretty ridiculous and laughable come back.

[Matthew]

When it's that biased, then yes, it is as credible as a video game site.

who said george bush was behind them? i was just pointing out how amazingly anti-democtratic the united states foriegn policy has always been and will continue to be.

You never said it, but look at the thread, its a "lets hate george bush" fest. And I wish people could see that. They point to america and say "oh look that place is fucked up becuase such and such happened 30 years ago, George Bush is such a wanker".. It seems like no matter what he does, he will encouter opposition by idiots.

[Matt]

and no doubt he'll get the support by idiots too

[Riot]

and no doubt he'll get the support by idiots too

I could say the same about Kerry supporters and blind Bush haters.

"OMFG DID YOU SEE PREZ BUSH ON SNL LAST NIGHT? OFMG HE IS SUCH A RETARD!!OMDF!@#@#@#@#@"

[Andrew]

president diem in south korea and installed a dictatorship!!

Sorry to nitpick, but Ngo Dinh Diem was the president of South Vietnam and was actually installed by the US as a puppet leader. He was notoriously unpopular though, which lead to the assassination (and of course, more support for Ho Chi Minh), a month before the assassination of JFK.

[Indy]

president diem in south korea and installed a dictatorship!!

Sorry to nitpick, but Ngo Dinh Diem was the president of South Vietnam and was actually installed by the US as a puppet leader. He was notoriously unpopular though, which lead to the assassination (and of course, more support for Ho Chi Minh), a month before the assassination of JFK.

your right

except that doesnt change the fact that they sponsored the murder of a democratic leader.

[cyanide]

You never said it, but look at the thread, its a "lets hate george bush" fest. And I wish people could see that. They point to america and say "oh look that place is fucked up becuase such and such happened 30 years ago, George Bush is such a wanker".. It seems like no matter what he does, he will encouter opposition by idiots.

You know, I never was involved with politics until George W Bush came along. It's not that I hate the guy because everybody else does, but the fact his actions are what I strongly oppose. I'm sure that many people out there oppose his actions, and that's why it's become a "lets hate george bush" fest. Even if American foreign policy had problems in the past, I wouldn't say GW Bush is making it any better, despite of how many people believe in the opposite.

[Riot]

Let's put it this way: I'd rather be in America than China.

The Chinese are fucked up right now.

[Indy]

Let's put it this way: I'd rather be in America than China.

The Chinese are fucked up right now.

..... ok... what does that have to do with anything? and the chinese economy is flourishing right now, and china is starting to become a serious world power.

what are you talking about?

[Riot]

China is overpopulated and disease infected. Not to mention but most of it's people are poor and opressed.

Not only that, but pretty much everyone hates them. Taiwan wants to have their own goverment (democracy) but China for some strange reason doesn't want them to. So if China tries to invade, attack or try to threaten Taiwan into not having democracy America MUST step in and basically get China to back off.

[COOLmac©]

chinese films already earning worldwide bucks......yeah miller here got some point riot. but i'd still choose america over china. in terms of living conditions

[Riot]

chinese films already earning worldwide bucks......yeah miller here got some point riot. but i'd still choose america over china. in terms of living conditions

That doesn't mean anything. They are still over-populated, dieased-infected and mostly an opressed nation. And they have about 1 ally.

[Indy]

China is overpopulated and disease infected. Not to mention but most of it's people are poor and opressed.

first of all if you are refering to sars when you say that chinese are diseased, you believed the sars scare that the US media created. sars is no worse then the flu, in fact it is similar to the cold. who knows why it was such a big deal for a time. yes you are correct that the government is oppresive in china and they still have some maoist tendencies, but i still dont see what saying that you would rather live here then in china had anything to do with this thread or argument. did you have no rebuttle to what i said?

Not only that, but pretty much everyone hates them. Taiwan wants to have their own goverment (democracy) but China for some strange reason doesn't want them to. So if China tries to invade, attack or try to threaten Taiwan into not having democracy America MUST step in and basically get China to back off.

first of all, pretty much everyone hates the united states also.

as for the taiwanese situation, China will not try to invade taiwan. If they did i dont see why the united states needs to take our already stretched to the maximum troops to another country when their is plenty of political strife in the United States and we are not the world police. yes, we should aid them with weapons and support the taiwanese, but if we invade taiwan to fight back against china, there would be a taiwanese uprising because the u.s. would inivatably try to westernize taiwan and the taiwanese would be very angry about this. it would be vietnam all over again, with the united states fighting about land with 2 groups, when the united states has nothing to do with the conflict in the first place.

[COOLmac©]

1 ally? i dont know any nation alllied themselves to china. (never even thought they need one considering they have so many people already to produce a grand army)

[Riot]

First off, China's army maybe large but their Navy and Air Force suck balls.

Secondly, I wasn't even talking about Sars. China in general has a lot of problems with disease. Largely due to their massive population.

And finally, why would America help Taiwan? Because they are our allies. Believe it or not, Taiwan WANTS A DEMOCRACY! And we are their friends. I don't care if you don't support the war on Iraq but if someone pushes our allies and friends around we can't just sit back and watch. America would have to step up, now I'm not talking about a damn war or anything but a miltary operation would have to be in place.

And America does have a lot of allies it's just a lot of them didn't support the war on Iraq. Simple as that. A lot of countries may not like America but they certainly do not hate America.

[Andrew]

your right

except that doesnt change the fact that they sponsored the murder of a democratic leader.

I wouldn't have called Diem a democratic leader per se (unless by democratic leader you're referring to JFK and the CIA conspiracy theory?), but in any event it wasn't a particularly noble way to meddle in Vietnam's politics, putting in an unpopular puppet then knocking him off when it was clear he wasn't going to be successful.

[Strike Freedom]

America dun wanna waste weapons fighting China...
they might win.. but not that easily.. if both countries really wanna fight.
so america is now trying to be friends with China.. and China is a good place to produce cheap stuffs with cheap costs..
it will affect american companies.. and alot of other companies who have factories in China..
this is one reason why Americans will not try to attack China.. i believe.

[Riot]

If China attacks Taiwan, America has to step up. That's all I'm saying.

[Matt]

it would only seem appropriate

[Riot]

I don't care if you don't like Bush or anything but when a country picks on and invades an ally you should step up and help. It's nothing like the current Iraqi war, it's called sticking up for a friend.

[Indy]

I don't care if you don't like Bush or anything but when a country picks on and invades an ally you should step up and help. It's nothing like the current Iraqi war, it's called sticking up for a friend.

first of all, if they taiwanese do not have their own government and they are under chinese rule, then what do you mean that we are taiwans ally? if they have a corrupt chinese dictator running their country, then we obviously should not be allys with them! if you mean that the taiwanese people want a seperation from china and want independence, then why would we send more troops to out to taiwan (making a draft definite) to fight off chinese when we could just supply them with weapons and money. if we go in and try to westernize their country, we would be met with another huge war between viatnamese rebels and the united states troops, its exactly the same situation is iraq.

plus i STILL dont see what this all had to do with the topc at hand.

[Riot]

Taiwan has been an independant state for like 2 decades now but they don't want to be under a Communist government, they want a democracy. However, China for some reason doesn't want Taiwan to be a democracy so they said if Taiwan gets a democracy they will attack Taiwan. Taiwan and America are allies.

And it's not like America would go in alone, you know how many nations would help in the cause? For sure the United Nations would back us, I'm almost 99% sure that European countries would want in on this including Germany and the UK. It's a communist country trying to stop a country from having a democracy. The country wants a democracy and China won't let them. And America has troops in 2/3 if not more of the world's countries. We have troops EVERYWHERE.