BIBLICAL debates 2005

Yeah, but I'm starting anew with the Milwaukee Bucks. And no, I didn't attend some the of the games...

I'd like to hear your debates, definitely.

Also COOLmac, I have a question: in your first post of the Biblical Debates thread, you described yourself as a "frustrated preacher." Could you explain further?

heheh good for you to noticed:
anyways i have been stenographing a bit about my debates back in college so just sit tight guys anytime soon i'll have the results updated:

"FRUSTRATED PREACHER"= me, because i felt the need to share what i have learned to people, but people just don't care.....i did my discovery at the bible after HS and when i went to college my friends thinks that it is uncool living the ways of GOD....many times i asked them what is it they believe in, when they state somethings that is very ourageously out in this world i challenged them to debates......only a few did dare....we have a small audience actually....we sat down in our school's backyard (we call it TAMBAYAN in our country) you know a place where students get to hang out.....about 30 poeple would show up every thursday.....then we will sign "THEME PAPER'S" and subjects that we felt is debateanle enough......
then we are both given a 15 minute stand, one rebuttal for each stand.then the final stand and lastly the debate part....twas all for fun and for about 6 debates i have been into i have won it all......no sweat really.....until a theology professor heard of our debate, then he authored a debate at an auditorium.....it holds about 90 poeple at that time......i have a panel of 3 guys with me all equip with notes and a computer program that can search the entire bible:
i remembered our topic was "DID JESUS EVER CARRIED THE PHYSICAL CROSS?"
i was on the negative side.....i dont know why at that time but i was really feeling on fire about holding on to my believes. i supplied many scriptural proofs and some history about JESUS, in the end the theology professor still kick my ass......but it was a friendly competition anyways......after that noone dared challenge me to a debate ever again....they just come to me and ask a few question and stuff like that....so i was feeling like i was helping poeple...many times girls would ask advice about relationships from the bible.....which i am happily ready to help since the bible itself teaches many wonderful things about man/woman relationships......so that is why i was able to say i am a frustrated preacher and all......

Just have persistence, COOLmac, no one ever said anything was going to be easy or quick. As long as you keep the big picture in mind, and try to always keep a good attitude and just never give up, having faith, it'll all work out in the end.

I'm looking forward to reading the debates

the debates are almost finished.....the FIRST stands is on the way maybe this coming weekend.i'm at BAGUIO right now so poeple just sit tight and relax. i'm enjoying my birthday vacation
may the PEACE be with you always

here it is ladies and gentlemen: the first part of my debate adventures:
COOLmac times presents Coolmac's debate adventures part one


BIBLICAL DEBATES:
Date: August 2001
Time: 3:30pm
Location: somewhere in La Salle campus Philippines

Note: this has been stenograph on actual cassette tapes and is translated to the English language via the Tagalog language (official Pilipino language)

Theme: PROVE USING THE SCRIPTURES THAT THE SPIRIT MENTION IN GENESIS 1:2 IS GOD HIMSELF

DEBATING PARTIES:
Positive side-Christian and co. “there is no other God besides God, therefore he is the only God from the present even from the beginning of time”

Negative side-COOLmac and co. “there is no such thing as persona’s of God, there is only one almighty God amongst many other so called gods”

Debate rules:
3 10 minutes stand/points
Each stand is followed by 5 minute questioning
After the final questioning final showdown with 3 question each.

POSITIVE SIDE FIRST STAND:
Good afternoon classmates and fellow schoolmates who are gathered here today, we may find it amusing that we are just mere students but we are fighting for our beliefs today. But bear in mind that salvation is not a laughing matter therefore we must all take to account the seriousness of the matter that we are going to discuss here today. My opponent for today is no stranger for debates. I have seen him voicing out outrageous comments and pointing out unorthodox beliefs which I find very misleading and can be very harmful to us believing wholeheartedly about our religion. I may not be a critic to most of his statements about being good and how one must live his life in the ways of God, but there are certain things that the opposing side has stated that lead me to research about. Since the theme for today is using the scriptures I cannot use our booklet of catholic beliefs so I have been forced to use the bible (Authorized Version, King James Version). My opening statement is this. After signing the theme that we are going to debate for the persona’s of God, me and my team has decided to read out a few things which many of us has already known. First the debated scripture text which is

Genesis 1:2 which says “and the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of deep. And the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.”

It is very clear that the spirit mentioned above is the spirit of God. So therefore the spirit belongs to God. It is just like saying that me my spirit is within my body therefore the spirit is me? I hope you get what I am trying to imply here. Another example is the spirit of your grandma is your grandma and the spirit of your grandpa is your grandpa. If we read a little further above from the previous text we can read in

Genesis 1:1 “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth”

It is very clear that there has been never anything created yet. And there is only one person stated that already exist even before the beginning. Note that in the beginning, GOD created. See here people that only God is talked about therefore God’s spirit is the only spirit which also is God existing in the creation and no one else. In line with this I know the negative side will hit me by going to the

Genesis 1:26-27 part which states “and God said let us make man into our image…

They will attack me why was there many personas’ God is talking to. Who are they? Remember that God created the HEAVENS FIRST, meaning after creating the heavens He created the inhabitants in the heavens which turns out to be the angels and other supreme beings which lived there. In conclusion the beings referred to “US” in genesis 1:26-27 must be the council in heaven which God ask and opinioned for the creation of mankind. And to proved that God is the only everlasting God before everything is created I have read in

Isaiah 63:16 “doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou O Lord, art our father, our redeemer: thy name is from everlasting”

See here that God is referred as our redeemer and his name is from everlasting: everlasting in the dictionary means before time and till the end of time. Therefore God already exist from the beginning, He made everything and He is also our redeemer which we adore to be saved. My time is up people and I am open for questioning now:



QUESTION AND ANSWER AFTER THE FIRST STAND:

COOLmac: did you state in your first stand that the spirit mentioned in genesis 1:2 is God Himself?

Christian: of course. That is my stand why do you keep returning the same statement which is clearly defined in my first stand

Coolmac: relax brother; there is nothing to worry here about. why are you on fire even though that is just my first question, I just wanted to make sure I heard you right and acknowledge that you know what have you been talking about

Christian: please go on; let us not circle on certain things which are already talked about

Coolmac: as I said relax; you are eating up my 5 minutes. This is my time and you are under cross examination therefore you are just to answer questions not comment on them. Understood?

Christian: okay I’m ready for further questioning

Coolmac: you also stated that in your body there is a spirit, and you concluded that if the spirit is within your body that spirit itself is you.

Christian: yes I have said that because the bible says that God is alone in creation

Coolmac: wait up I didn’t ask you to comment on your statements, I clearly ask a question pertaining to you not about God yet and the creation, I have ask you a question which is answerable by yes or no so just say yes or no period

Christian: yes the spirit within me is me myself. And the spirit of God is God himself

Coolmac: see here now, there is peace if we just cooperate and not let our emotions take over. Take note of my questions brother because I will use them against you, okay in my next stands.
Next question is it correct to say that you were the one who said that the spirit of God is above the waters during creation?

Christian: here we are again why do you have to keep asking the statements that I have already said yes I admit I said them what are you on man? Are you having amnesia or something?

coolmac: Mr. moderator kindly calm down our brother here, he obviously don't know or don’t have an idea what is a cross examination is, to define it to you my brother I am clearing anything that you have said for the audience to have a clearer perspective of what you have just stated. Later I will state what I have gathered from your points then returned them to you. I hope you are calm now

Christian: okay I am calm

LAST QUESTION:

Coolmac: I have written here in my notes that you stated "must be the council in heaven which God ask and opinioned for the creation of mankind" I would like to ask you if this statement comes from you or am I just imagining things:

Christian: yes I have said that statement

END OF FRIST QUESTIONING


FIRST STAND OF THE NEGATIVE SIDE:
COOLMAC:
After evaluation of Mr. Christian here, we can all clearly say that he is really ready for a debate and looks like he is having high blood pressures even when asked about simple things that he stated: ladies and gentlemen if you have listen closely to anything he just said you can see that he is a very judgmental type of person, stating that my previous endeavors are misleading and telling me I have amnesia and also saying that “he knows” that I am going to hit him using the text in genesis 1:26. I am sorry to say brother that you must rid yourself of this behavior (crowd goes nuts) as it may lead you to disaster in the near future:
If you also observe closely after a 10 minute of mouth blabbering he was able to come up of only 3 scriptural text. Which is very bad since using only less scriptural text he interpreted them all wrong? (Crowds jeers and went nuts again) ladies and gentlemen all that he stated just came from his head and never from the bible which alone can answer all question: reminds me of people in the podium during Sundays who will run their mouth in just one paragraph of the bible: we will read that in

Isaiah 34:16 “seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read; none of these shall fail, none shall want her mate; for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them”

(Crowd claps) see here my brother, the bible talks about you. SEEK, after READ, none of these fails you. What did you do? You just read and conclude. WORNG VERY WRONG. Why? Because I based my beliefs in what God said not what I think what is right. Written here in

2 timothy 3:16 “all scriptures is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness”

Also in

1corinthians 14:37 “if any man think of himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandment of the Lord”

That is why my friend and brother I have no shame talking straight faced about my beliefs because I know where it came from. It came from God, not just my personal opinion and stuff. So in just a short span of time I have about 6 verses already and I have not yet run down on our topic. Unlike you guys back there that searches for notes and bookmarks I have already am ready for this because God is letting me see the truth, I can see that your team is taking along time to scan the bible for the 3 verses that you juts read, next time come to a debate prepared. Now let us go into topic. You stated after I cross examined you that the spirit of God is God himself and is hovering above the waters. Let us examined further that statement: “and the earth was without form and void, and… what is the next term? Darkness was upon the face of the deep, and the spirit of God is hovering above the waters, your conclusion is very wrong brother because after I will read this you will be surely surprised, let us read

1John1:5
“This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.” .


See here ladies and gentlemen, it is very impossible that God was floating above the waters himself because it is written that it was very dark! And God himself is LIGHT (crowd jeers more)it cannot be the truth that God was above the dark waters because God is very shiny and all light, then the bible would not just describe it to be very dark. That spirit mentioned there is the Holy Spirit. Not God himself I would like to reiterate again. God is light and the beginning where there is darkness if He was to be in the earth the earth would be filled with superb light! But God created the light in the third paragraph

Genesis 1:3 “and God said “Let there be light” “.

Again you are talking nonsense after you conclude those words that you mention brother. In fact as I was listening to your speech, I am very saddened to say to you that none of what you have just told all this audience is correct. Not in biblical sense, all of your statements are very wrong. But let us not look much into your wrongs dear brother, let us continue reading what is correct and right. If I would like to re state everything you have just said here using our cassette tape. Please play the part where he said about God creating the heavens (assistant played/rewind the part) here it is (Christian talking in the tape) “If we read a little further above from the previous text we can read in Genesis 1:1 “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” it is very clear that there has been never anything created yet. And there is only one person stated that already exist even before the beginning. Note that in the beginning, GOD created. See here people that only God is talked about therefore God’s spirit is the only spirit which also is God existing in the creation and no one else.” You said in that statement of yours that no one existed with God in the beginning, since he never created everything yet, and you said that the heavens was not yet created and therefore it’s inhabitants where not yet there. What if I read to you that before the creation there were already beings together with God, what would be your reaction my friend? (Crowd applauses loudly in anticipation) huh my brother? What would you feel if I tell you that there were already beings with God even before the creation? Ok I’ll read it to you now. Let’s read this slowly so you will surely understand ok?

Proverbs 8:22-29 let us read the verses slowly and one by one: start in 22. “ the Lord possessed me in the beginning of his ways, before his works of old” next verse please “ I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was” see here ladies and gentlemen, there is already somebody set up from the beginning even before the earth was, lets continue shall we? “when there were no depths, I was brought forth: when there were no fountains abounding with water” aha even when there was no water yet, means that there really is no earth.” Before the mountains was settled, before the hills was I brought forth” now this is the good part, please read this loud and very clear “while as yet he had not made the earth!, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the world.”(Crowd cheering) and this just keeps getting better “when he prepared the heavens I was there!” (Very loud applause from the crowd, at this point my opponent was turning very red) see here ladies and gentlemen the verses stated that before the heavens and the earth was created by HIM, who was the HIM? Of course God!!! God created the heavens and the earth eh? Hehehe there was someone saying that “I was there!!!!!!” and do you know who was there? Who was that being? Let us jump into the New Testament to find out.

John 1:1 “in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God”

Let us pause there first. It is very clear as crystal ladies and gentlemen that in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God! Who was the word? Continue please “and the Word was God” aha the Word was also a God? My opponent might hit me back here that the Word was God himself, but no, let us clear this by going to John 1:2, “the same was the beginning with God” see now that Word was WITH God, so it cannot be God himself. It is another being, which is with God in the beginning, and also was a God. Now let us know who is this word? John 1:14 please read (assistant reads) “and the Word was made Flesh and dwelt among us (and we beheld His Glory, the Glory as of the only begotten of the Father) Full of grace and truth” if you don’t know who that is my brother I am very sadden by your fate. (Crowd went wild) but if you still don’t know I’ll make it clearer for you, just in case. John 3:16 I wont read it anymore. I think that verse is the only verse you can read without using the bible. (Crowd jeers)
Now let us seek more into this matter. We all now know that the “us” referred in Genesis 1:26 when God decided to make man into His own image is really Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit of God, because in Genesis 1:2 the spirit was hovering above the waters. Why was the spirit above the waters, what was He doing there?

In psalms 104:30 read please “thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth”

see the holy spirit was send forth during creation to renew the face of the earth, to build the face of the earth he is send forth, that is why we have land, the holy spirit is responsible for that, because at first the earth was void and just a mass of water as describe in the first part of genesis. Now unto your other wrong sayings my dear brother, how much time do I have left? (Another 4 minutes says the moderator) okay now, you have stated that “It is very clear that the spirit mentioned above is the spirit of God. So therefore the spirit belongs to God. It is just like saying that me my spirit is within my body therefore the spirit is me?” I will not play back the tape anymore to save my time speaking here. You concluded with your very own conclusion that the spirit within you is you. And the spirit of God therefore is God himself. I’m very sadden again my brother that what you have just said is a big hogwash and a very bad blasphemous statement I have ever heard in my entire life (crowd cheers)I will read something to you and this will surely shocked you a bit

1corinthians 6:19-20 please read “what? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are brought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.”

Maybe huh, maybe what you really meant my brother when you claim that the spirit with in you is just you, I think you meant the soul within you is you, you see our spirit is from God. Remember the apostles having the Holy Spirit within them? And we can read further more that the spirit inside us is not us, in

Romans 5:5 “and hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.”

The Holy Spirit is always given unto us ever since the beginning,

In genesis 2:7 we can read “and the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathe into his nostrils the breathe of life; and the man become a living soul.”

The living souls is being taken into consideration here, that is your mind, your person your entirety, whilst the breathe of life is the spirit being given to you by God by breathing into your nostrils in the day you were born. Let us examine further in Job 27:3 “all the while my breathe is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils” it is very clear that the breathe that is given to us, you know the very same breathe we have when we first cry into this world is the breathe of life, which is the spirit of God, it is sealed by this verse that when we die the spirit escapes from us and is taken back to God, in

Ecclesiastes 12:7 “then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return to God who gave it”

Also in james2:26 “for the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also”

The spirit is different form our soul. Take note with that ladies and gentlemen. I know it is another lecture/teachings but take note with that. I was hoping you are taking notes of all the verses discuss here today and I am asking for God’s blessings to help us be guided correctly on what is supposedly right path in our faith. I have yet many issues to tackle on your statements but due to time constraints I cannot be able to tackle them all. Maybe in my next 2 stands I will try, only if you won’t add misleading statements the more after your next stands. My time is up I am now open for questioning thank you. (Crowd applauses)

next issue: Coolmac's cross examination and the final showdown
stay glued and live in the ways of God, may the peace be with you all

i only have about 3 cassete tapes of my debates...spanning from the fastest 15 minutes to the longest 4 hours....i'll be posting them once weekly since it takes a long time to stenograph then translate them to english i hope you guys are patient

peeps hello. i have with me the diskette i have from home. unfortunately since it's monday i have left my laptop at the breakfast table.but no worries i happen to saved some of the debates in a diskete. but not reliable as they maybe it can only show certain parts and the other parts of the documents is corrupt.nevertheless i'll have it back soon as possible, and oh yeah the other thing is my laptop is in my girl's house which is considerably a far drive from my condo unit and work......till the next debates

here is the cross examination after the first stand of coolmac

christian: okay my turn now to question you, do you believe in the catholic faith?

coolmac: ms. moderator I cannot and will not answer his question

christian: why so, you are under cross examination here you must answer

coolmac: your question is very irrelevant to what I just said about in my first stand

christian: why did you say so?

coolmac: my faith has nothing to do with what we are debating here

MODERATOR: after further analysis I have concluded that it is not a matter of what church you both are, so please christian supply your next question

Coolmac: thank you ms. moderator as you can see this guy is swaying away off topic and is wasting time!

christian: the only one who is wasting time here is you, don't tell me you are afraid of the cross exam I am about to give to you

MODERATOR: please gentlemen can we just move along on topic?

christian:okay my question is, under what authority did you based this so called teachings that you profess..

coolmac: why are you questioning my authority? what is so special with you're authority?

christian: I am not just questioning your authority mind you, I am asking you what authority do you based it from? I am for example basing my authority from the catholic church teachings.

coolmac: I am sorry to hear that my friend, but your doctrines that you say belong to the catholic church is contradictory to your statements in your first stand, you don’t have to tell me about your authority because I know it is contrary to the very church you profess?

christian: does this mean you consider my stand as against the church? what makes you say that your stand is not against it either?

coolmac: excuse me but did you here me stating that I am using the catholic church as the basis of my teachings? So I am not with the catholic church or against it either, I am only debating against you not the entire roman church.no no no, that is very wrong, you are very fond of putting words into my mouth my friend that is wrong.

MODERATOR: please rephrase your question Mr. Christian so the answering party can clearly give its answer

christian: okay, I am asking you where do you base this teaching of yours.

coolmac: simple. I never based it on anyone's doctrine therefore as you and every one here can hear and read I got it all from God.

christian: what makes you say that it all came from God?

coolmac: because unlike you I never give any conclusion to any of them I just simply used the bible scriptures and by itself it supplied the question and answered the question (crowd goes wild)

christian: so you mean to say that you only read it from the bible by purging text after text?

coolmac: ahh no no no you are really trying hard to get words into my mouth isn't it? I would like to return the question to you! who are you to question the authority of the bible when you are not even a bible authority! anyways why are we tackling what authorities here, I thought we are just focusing in a friendly debate about the bible, not about authority. I can read your mind my brother, I know you are in a tight situation and you are using this authority subject as your means of escape and swaying us away from he original topic at hand(crowd goes nuts again)

MODERATOR: I have to intervene here, as we can see nothing productive was produced at all at Christian’s 5 minute questioning, I am giving him 2 more minutes to supply questions about the topic about the holy spirit after that I am returning the table to him for his second stand. this is my last warning please stay on topic Mr. Christian

christian: okay my mistake ms.moderator. I have just one question only. is it true that you firmly believe that the soul is different from the spirit within us?

coolmac: I didn’t just believe it my brother but that is what is written and what is written is the truth I have added nothing and will conclude nothing and as you can plainly hear moments ago the bible is complete via itself!!! (the crowd applause)

christian: that is all:

sorry having to revive this thread. but i have been requested a few times already about people who have a lot of questions to ask about their faith. and i dont want to make a new thread so please bear with us. and the peeps who hungered for truth.

QUESTION: i would like to know more about the holy spirit. it's role, purpose and it's whole entity.

ANSWER: well lets take it slowly one at a time if i shall say.

first lets read:
Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

the spirit of God dwells in each of us. take note that there is also the spirit of Jesus. so if the spirit of Dwells in us and we did bad things what will this spirit feel?

Eph 4:30
And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby, ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

this spirit is feeling greif. and is sadden.

so far we learned that we have this spirit of God within us. and that it feels things.

next lesson will be. why do the spirit greives? and will He left us?

thanks

How can you exerpt that the holy spirit is saddend by reading Eph 4:30?

Jae's gonna kill me.

I must now sacrifice a small rabbit to Jaesus Christ in return for my protection.

it wasnt only you cyanide trust me. about 4 poeple begged actually. and you were not even one of em....

ahhh in the words "greive not......" if you were told not to grieve your mother. it basically means your mother is capable of grieving thats what i think

Whom were these people and where do they live?

So there exists God the Father, Jesus (the Son), the Spirit of Jesus, and the Holy Spirit? All 4 are different? Does God the Father have a spirit, you think?


btw Jae I was one and I ain't telling you where I live

So there exists God the Father

Nah, not anymore, he passed away recently.

Jesus (the Son)

That guy's still alive, James Caviezel. Also known as the Count of Monte Christo.

and the Holy Spirit

What's that? A trick question? Ofcourse the holy spirit isn't alive. He's a spirit.



Was that insensitive to your needs for enlightment?

you've got a right to your opinions, Jackal, that's all I'm gonna say.

peace-

Yeesh, I was joking man. Don't go all serious on me.

I'm not mad, man...just, what did you expect me to say?

You want the truth? I expected you to preach & codemn me to eternal burning in hell.

Thank god he's not at that extreme end of the spectrum

Thank god he's not at that extreme end of the spectrum

Amen to that.

I told myself I'll never come to this thread.. I'm here now. And I'll never return.. scary fucks.

members of the God head:
God-----known to have seven spirits....[soon to be a lesson for you]
Jesus---Son of God [his spirit is known to be his teachings embedded in our hearts]
Holy Spirit---A spirit of God yet very distinct and have his own characteristic.[ remember Jesus was brought to earth and concieved by the Holy Spirit?] will tackle on this matter much more

members of the God head:

Say what about God's head now?

God-----known to have seven spirits....[soon to be a lesson for you]

Wait, how can a spirit HAVE a spirit? Not to mention 7 of them??

Jesus---Son of God [his spirit is known to be his teachings embedded in our hearts]

Aren't his and God's spirits supposed to be one?

Holy Spirit---A spirit of God yet very distinct and have his own characteristic.[ remember Jesus was brought to earth and concieved by the Holy Spirit?]

If he was concived, how was he broght down?

will tackle on this matter much more

Please no more mile-long posts? I didn't even bother to try to read it.

okay. thanks for your questions. although a bit sarcastic but hey atleast you ask interestly. we will tackle them all. slowly and no mile lon posts. promise .

just remember i wont voice out my opinion. you have the scriptures to read and see wether i am saying heresays here okay. lets start in about 22 hours from now.
good day thank you

You want the truth? I expected you to preach & codemn me to eternal burning in hell.

not me, man. Maybe preach a little, but never condem. I'm not God, that's not my place, and besides I don't know your heart anyways.

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?- Matthew 7:1-3