Obama vs. McCain

[cyanide]

[Andrew]

Can we really survive eight more years of the same old failed Washington politics?

Probably, that seems to be the nature of politics. The names are new, the actions are all too familiar and somehow society still continues to function.

[benji]

Yeah, well, we've never had an American society with a $100 trillion entitlement shortfall, and 51% of the country getting more from the government than they put in, while maintaining representation.

(And as I think you already know, but I can't trust that for the others. It was a sarcastic question.)

EDIT: All the states are in, barring a handful of outstanding votes. (Provisionals, Absentee, etc.) Obama + McCain = 121 million. Bush + Kerry = 121 million. I imagine that climbs still, but a growth rate that matches population/registered increase. Unimpressive. Parsecs from the 14% increase that was 1988->1992. Even if it hits the pre-election 130 million projection (looking quite unlikely) that's only half the increase as in 1992.

Also, 2004 Voter Turnout 18-21: 17%. 2008 Voter Turnout 18-21: 18%.

So much for that 70-75% total and a third of youth voters turnout crap. Why do we trust political scientists again?

[cyanide]

Yes, Jesse Jackson and Oprah can cry. But you fucking white college kids hanging out at the "big party" fuck you and fuck your dog.

Is Magic Johnson and his wife allowed to cry? All night?

[BigKaboom2]

Those who are resentful toward people with light skin have every reason to cry tears of joy.

[shadowgrin]

I'm still waiting for the White House to be repainted.

Or the presidential limo to be pimped out with dubs and colored purple.

[/racist]

"Faith does not require an investment nor does hope but substance does."

I wish Jesse Jackson has cut Obama's nuts then.

[benji]

I'm still waiting for the White House to be repainted.

[Oznogrd]

I'm still waiting for the White House to be repainted.

Or the presidential limo to be pimped out with dubs and colored purple.

[/racist]

"Faith does not require an investment nor does hope but substance does."

I wish Jesse Jackson has cut Obama's nuts then.

The west side of the house will be pained white and the east side black (since its closer to africa an all). It'd be the only appropriate way.

[benji]

Just what we need...another East/West feud.

And I think we've exposed illini as another "hidden" racist. Wanting the East side painted black. I bet he wants us to accept that it's just a coincidence that's where the FIRST LADY'S OFFICE IS.

[Oznogrd]

Just what we need...another East/West feud.

And I think we've exposed illini as another "hidden" racist. Wanting the East side painted black. I bet he wants us to accept that it's just a coincidence that's where the FIRST LADY'S OFFICE IS.

Ok paint horizontal black and white stripes around the whole thing so each point is equally close to all sides
I may get roasted for this but yeah this is my response to racism...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbud8rLejLM&[/youtube]

[Matthew]

Those who are resentful toward people with light skin have every reason to cry tears of joy.

Magic is resentful towards white people?

[cyanide]

Congressman Warns of Obama Dictatorship
Benji, is that you?!

[benji]

Hey, I didn't say it, they did:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7Nlq80DVpo[/youtube]

Valerie Jarrett, Co-Chair of the Obama transition team states:

"Important for President-elect Obama to 'begin to rule' on day one."

[BigKaboom2]

Magic is resentful towards white people?

Johnson said not only did he not believe as a kid growing up in Michigan that there wouldn't be an African-American president in his lifetime, he had doubts the country was ready to make such a decision while Obama was running.

I'm going to ignore the frigging triple negative they managed to throw in here and assume that "wouldn't" is supposed to be "would". An exact quote would have been helpful but this makes it seem as if he views most white people as racists who would conceivably vote for McCain just to keep a black person out of the White House.

[Matthew]

I couldn't care less about your interpretation of his comment. What he said had no resentment towards white people.

[BigKaboom2]

If you couldn't care less about my interpretation of his comment, why do you expect me to care about your interpretation of his comment?

[Matthew]

Did he specifically say "I resent white people"? No. So it's not my interpretation that he didn't say that, it's there in black and white that he didn't. Get the fuck over yourself and go back to whining about Obama winning.

[BigKaboom2]

But the discussion isn't about whether or not he specifically said "I resent white people." It is about whether or not he actually resents them. Maybe you should address the actual issue instead of making up an auxiliary one that can't even be debated.

I realize at this point that you reject the notion that anything can be implied, like if I say I'm going to eat this sandwich right now you will remain utterly unconvinced that I will do so, or if you were doing election coverage you would wait until every single vote had been counted before you even suggested who the winner might be. If somebody said "I want every black person in the country to be hanged from a tree" and I referred to them as a racist, you would tell me that this is invalid because they never explicitly stated "I am a racist!" If I told you blue was my favorite color, and someone else claimed that yellow is not my favorite color, you would chastise them for "assuming."

Until you get over this childish and irrational debate strategy, there's no way to discuss anything whatsoever with you because you'll eventually whip out that tired gimmick with uncanny regularity. I think it's rather obvious that when Magic says that he "had doubts the country was ready to make such a decision while Obama was running," he is implying a perception of U.S. caucasians in which they would vote against a candidate because of his skin color.

[Matthew]

Just because someone has doubts that a certain part of society will do something does not mean they resent that entire part of community. You can call it childish, but you're the one who over values your own opinion. You make a judgement based off a perception, and you believe it to be true no matter what. I'm saying there is no concrete proof of what you are saying, it's all opinion and you call me irrational.

I mean, I have doubts that Microsoft will ever create a console that will will be free of the RROD. Does that mean I resent them? Is this a stupid analogy? Of course but its no less valid then your idiotic sandwhich or hanging examples.

And as I said before, I don't have a problem with anyone assuming anything. I have a problem when people assume they know the truth when you can't prove something. I assume that Live 09 is better then 2k9! Why? Fuck you, thats why.

See?

[BigKaboom2]

Now you're taking benji's arguments from the shot blocking thread and using them against me....

What is "over valu[ing]" my opinion? I should value mine less and value yours more? I wasn't trying to state objectively what goes on in Magic Johnson's head - I was taking his summarized comment and matching it up to a very very common argument among U.S. Democrats, in which all opposition to Barack Obama gaining power is claimed to be without a doubt derived from racism.

When he says that he didn't think the country was ready to have an African-American president, it would seem to me that he believes that a majority of white people will only vote for a white candidate, because they don't trust black people. If I were a black person and subscribed to this stereotype (not that I ever would), I would resent them based on this.

And as I said before, I don't have a problem with anyone assuming anything. I have a problem when people assume they know the truth when you can't prove something.

If you can prove something, why would there be a need to assume anything? You would have all the facts right there, no doubt about it. An assumption is a conclusion based on incomplete evidence, hence no "proof" available.

[Matthew]

I'm not using anyone else's argument, let alone Ben's.

Overvaluing your opinion is you are placing your opinion over other peoples. I'm not saying you should put mine over yours, I'm saying they should be equal (interesting concept right?).

I wasn't trying to state objectively what goes on in Magic Johnson's head

What? At least you're admitting to not being objective I guess...

And I really couldn't care what Democrats or Obama say, it's almost a proven fact that they sensationalists when it comes to their arguments. Why you take them seriously is beyond me but that's your problem, not mine.

You can try to twist and manipulate what Magic said, but you don't know if that's what he meant by the country electing a black president. There could be numerous meanings behind it. The fact remains though, he never, ever said he resents white people so you can't say he did.

[Oskar]

Oh my god.. this thread.. it's jaw dropping..

[BigKaboom2]

I'm not using anyone else's argument, let alone Ben's.

You make a judgement based off a perception, and you believe it to be true no matter what. I'm saying there is no concrete proof of what you are saying, it's all opinion and you call me irrational.

You can argue over and over the truth of your claim, and insult/dismiss me and my claim, but you can never show anything to support your claim. Except the claim itself. I can continue to point to Turiaf blocking a higher percentage of shots.

I assume that Live 09 is better then 2k9! Why? Fuck you, thats why.

Ronny Turiaf is a better shot blocker than Emeka Okafor. Because I said so.

Overvaluing your opinion is you are placing your opinion over other peoples. I'm not saying you should put mine over yours, I'm saying they should be equal (interesting concept right?).

That's such bullshit.

That's fine, but you won't catch me seriously saying the same about your opinion...

Your rules seem to change depending on whether it's you or the other person who is defending a claim.

What? At least you're admitting to not being objective I guess...

I would never claim to be objective. You came dangerously close to doing so right here though:

I couldn't care less about your interpretation of his comment. What he said had no resentment towards white people.

And I really couldn't care what Democrats or Obama say, it's almost a proven fact that they sensationalists when it comes to their arguments. Why you take them seriously is beyond me but that's your problem, not mine.

It may sound sensationalist but I see no reason to believe that they aren't serious about it.

The fact remains though, he never, ever said he resents white people so you can't say he did.

But the discussion isn't about whether or not he specifically said "I resent white people." It is about whether or not he actually resents them. Maybe you should address the actual issue instead of making up an auxiliary one that can't even be debated.

This is becoming monotonous.

[Matthew]

Here we go with another quote fest...

Only Magic knows if he is resentful towards white people. You don't know. I don't know (but I'm not the one saying he is or isn't)

You complain about this becoming a monotonous argument, but when I point out that Magic never said that he is resentful towards white people and we don't have access to his thought process, there is no way of proving otherwise. That's why I couldn't care less about your interpretation of his comment, its meaningless. My interpretation of the sky is it is green, not blue. It doesn't mean anything.

And if you're admitting to not being objective, why would anyone treat you differently to those crazy left wingers who contradict the bejesus out of themselves to try and score cheap political points?

But just so there is no confusion here, I'm not making a claim here. I'm saying the claim you are making is nothing but an assumption (which is a claim I guess but I'm not saying Magic is or isn't resentful towards whites)

The truth of the matter is you are such a clown. You make a claim, or argue the claim, that Magic is resentful towards white people, and I point out you don't know this for sure because he didn't say this and you try to draw it out as much as possible. Maybe you should take up masturbating.

[Jugs]

lol-bama