BIBLICAL debates 2005

Joeb-

I'm glad you're sharing your beliefs, this is a very open/accepting/tolerant thread- no one's trying to force anyone to believe anything, but everyone is trying to share (and maybe clarify) their own beliefs.

My advice to you (and everyone) is to keep an open mind about everything. Yet still, have conviction in your beliefs. This is a hard thing to do, but it's the only way to better yourself in the end, which is what you seem to value most.

For one, I think all religion and/or beliefs in anything except man and nature to be idiotic. Why? Because I think they serve one purpose, and one purpose only. And that is to make us feel comfy, or taken care of, or that even if we fuck up royally there's still someone/something that can make it better.

The reason people go to God in the first place is to serve themselves. (feel whole inside, get a sense of purpose & strength, etc...)That is true. But soon, they feel fulfilled in a way that they never were before. After that, why do they remain spiritual? Because now, they are serving themselves, and serving God (in whatever ways there are).

Of course, this is my view. Many don't think it's necessary/good/smart to "serve God," and that's their view.

And a final question for you, Joeb, what do you mean by saying that people must have a belief in themselves and nature?

What I mean, or was trying to put across while still fumbling around in the neat world of sleep-deprivation, was that when push comes to shove we should have faith or put our beliefs into ourselves or nature.

Ourselves because I think that you cannot be "happy" without full confidence and a security in you own person and your own capabilities.

Nature becuase of all the neatness that goes around in it, to take comfort in something beautiful when it presents itself.
Example: Today I was (as I said living in a world of not-so-much-sleep) going to my fiancee's house to get a quick bite before going to the library to study. The exam we're having is really limiting on the time we spend together, so we thought we'd go out in the wonderful springtime and just relax for an hour or so. And sitting there in the sun, people around me, music playing from an apartment just next to us (it was on campus, so loads of students just relaxing) I could feel my energy coming back to me. Just by being in a wonderful place.

Very, very abstract. But maybe you understand what I'm trying to say.

Shadowgrin enters the room and shouts, "REPENT SINNERS AND THOU SHALT BE SAVED!"

Sorry, I just had to type that.

My two cents: As long as one's beliefs or non-belief doesn't harm other individuals, continue practicing faith and belief in that religion. Be tolerant of others beliefs or non-belief as long as the above statement still applies.

But if an individual does otherwise, My god will bitch-smite that person's god or gods, or that individual itself, if that person doesn't have a god.
I PITY THE FOOL WHO DOESN'T RESPECT OTHERS FAITH!

Ourselves because I think that you cannot be "happy" without full confidence and a security in you own person and your own capabilities.

Nature becuase of all the neatness that goes around in it, to take comfort in something beautiful when it presents itself.
Example: Today I was (as I said living in a world of not-so-much-sleep) going to my fiancee's house to get a quick bite before going to the library to study. The exam we're having is really limiting on the time we spend together, so we thought we'd go out in the wonderful springtime and just relax for an hour or so. And sitting there in the sun, people around me, music playing from an apartment just next to us (it was on campus, so loads of students just relaxing) I could feel my energy coming back to me. Just by being in a wonderful place.

You ever considered that those magnificent moments and feeling actually stem from within you rather than from an outside source? We should firstly strive to understand the mysteries of the human mind and then reach out to the world beyond us, be it physical or not...

Ourselves because I think that you cannot be "happy" without full confidence and a security in you own person and your own capabilities.

Nature becuase of all the neatness that goes around in it, to take comfort in something beautiful when it presents itself.
Example: Today I was (as I said living in a world of not-so-much-sleep) going to my fiancee's house to get a quick bite before going to the library to study. The exam we're having is really limiting on the time we spend together, so we thought we'd go out in the wonderful springtime and just relax for an hour or so. And sitting there in the sun, people around me, music playing from an apartment just next to us (it was on campus, so loads of students just relaxing) I could feel my energy coming back to me. Just by being in a wonderful place.

You ever considered that those magnificent moments and feeling actually stem from within you rather than from an outside source? We should firstly strive to understand the mysteries of the human mind and then reach out to the world beyond us, be it physical or not...

Yup, sure did. And I figured out that whenever I got those feelings of sudden complete relaxation, or the rush of energy, or profound happiness or what-you-might-call-'em it's always been in settings of beauty or places that radiate a certain... something.

Now if they're the cause or not I just don't know.

I think gods don't exists guys. Don't waste your time with this... It's only my opinion, I don't want to critizize you.

Now if they're the cause or not I just don't know.

Exactly. Maybe they're just the catalysts that help bring those moments out... Then again, maybe not. Nevertheless, we should enjoy them...

mmmm a lot more came out finally.......just after dr.dweaver confess about his faith....this will get interesting in a few days.....i'm just finishing a few things when i do, i'll get back here and hold a good debate for the meantime chow

Ourselves because I think that you cannot be "happy" without full confidence and a security in you own person and your own capabilities.

I agree. However, I don't see why this has to be contradictory to a belief in God. Why can't you have both? Many believe that they are made whole because of God, and that's more than many others can say.

My two cents: As long as one's beliefs or non-belief doesn't harm other individuals, continue practicing faith and belief in that religion. Be tolerant of others beliefs or non-belief as long as the above statement still applies.

You got the right thinking here, Don King. That's what we're all trying to do in this forum. I'm sure that if we weren't tolerant of others' beliefs, by now, this topic would have been dead (or at war):wink:

You ever considered that those magnificent moments and feeling actually stem from within you rather than from an outside source? We should firstly strive to understand the mysteries of the human mind and then reach out to the world beyond us, be it physical or not...

Good thoughts, Dr. Dweaver. No doubt, great feelings and moments are part of life on earth, and don't have to come from divine intervention. All of this conversation is about whether you think that there is a God behind everything, who makes all of this possible. Nobody can prove anything, so for everyone, it's a matter of what they believe. Now WHY we believe what we believe is the tough part to figure out...

Now WHY we believe what we believe is the tough part to figure out...

Exactly. It would all be much easier if could decide what we believe in, no? Too bad beliefs are out of our control, and that's what makes it all a mystery. How can us humans be trying to understand the entire world, the mathematical genius behing the universe's clockwork organisation, and still not being able to remotely understand what is it that drives our own actions? Is it the soul? Is it God? Is it a collective intelligence? Is it Chaos-theory based and therefore only statistically explained? Is it Quantum-theory related therefore its cause may be two things at once?

No one knows for now, and quite possibly for ever, at least in the physical realm we live in. One can only hold discussions about the great mysteries of life, in order to train his mind in going deeper. But as I state in my sig, an open mind is a good thing, but a wide open mind cannot hold the brain in place...

It would all be much easier if could decide what we believe in, no? Too bad beliefs are out of our control, and that's what makes it all a mystery.

I don't understand- doesn't everyone have control over their beliefs? And why can't they decide what they believe in? People do all the time...

No one knows for now, and quite possibly for ever, at least in the physical realm we live in.

Yes, your right. You have to have faith (I'm not just talking about the spiritual kind) in what you believe to be true.

But as I state in my sig, an open mind is a good thing, but a wide open mind cannot hold the brain in place...

Yeah- finding that balance is tough, but should always be strived for.


Hey Dr. Dweaver, some people use very practical reasoning for believing in God/being spiritual, which goes like this:

If you do not believe in God, and there is no God, there's nothing to worry about. (no consequences)
If you believe in God, and there is no God, again, there's nothing to worry about. (no consequences)
If you do not believe in God, and there is a God, then you got something to worry about.
If you believe in God, and there is a God, then you got something to worry about, but hopefully are in good shape.

I'm wondering, what do you think of this logic???

I don't understand- doesn't everyone have control over their beliefs? And why can't they decide what they believe in? People do all the time...

No, we do not control our beliefs... Beliefs, faith etc are the results of our upbringing and our everyday experiences. Beliefs are bestowed upon us and change or vary according to our lives... For example: A woman has strong faith in God, goes to church, trie sto do good etc . Then her son gets brutally murdered with no reason. Then the woman finds out that she does not trust God anymore, therefore does not believe in him anymore. The critical point here is this: The woman WANTS TO BELIEVE in god, but finds herself unable to because of the event that has transpired. Is not believing her choice? No, it came as a result of sth else. In a more far-fetched example, if you were raised in a community of atheists, you yourself would probably not believe in God right about now. I hope you understand what i am trying to say, I will say again that English is not my mother tongue and therefore there may be some phrasing errors...

If you do not believe in God, and there is no God, there's nothing to worry about. (no consequences)

True. Although worrying about the effects the existence of God might have upon you does not make you a true non-believer. If you do not believe, you do not contemplate on the possibility of God's existence. You must always have an open mind for a different view, but it is your main belief that should dictate your actions, not the possibility of it being false.

If you believe in God, and there is no God, again, there's nothing to worry about. (no consequences)

In this case you probably have wasted your life chasing waterfalls and fickle dreams. Maybe you have lived a better life though, even by believing in something false. At the moment in time one dies and realises that his beliefs had been wrong, and since he won't have any semblance of an afterlife, all he can say is: 'oops, i was wrong afterall'. At least he won't have forever to regret it

If you do not believe in God, and there is a God, then you got something to worry about

Same as the previous one. You still live in your own concocted dream. In addition, though, I believe that should god exist, he does not judge people by their beliefs but by their actions, so, if the person on question lived a goo dlife, he has nothing to be afraid of as far as divine judgememt is concerned.

If you believe in God, and there is a God, then you got something to worry about, but hopefully are in good shape.

Same as before. You might be a phenomenically devoted Christian, but not a true one at heart. Again, should god exist, he shall judge you by your actions.


In conclusion, all this cause--->effect statements are rather simplistic to fully describe the issue... One finds his/her own answers in the unique way road that is his/her life... That's what I go by, in any case...

In a more far-fetched example, if you were raised in a community of atheists, you yourself would probably not believe in God right about now.

Did you read the previous posts in this thread? We talked about this- you'd find it interesting, probably. (I gave my view, too, but it's too long to repeat right here...)

I hope you understand what i am trying to say, I will say again that English is not my mother tongue and therefore there may be some phrasing errors

wow your english is flawless, man- I'm shocked it's not your native tounge (you have a bigger vocabulary than me!)

I believe that should god exist, he does not judge people by their beliefs but by their actions, so, if the person on question lived a goo dlife, he has nothing to be afraid of as far as divine judgememt is concerned.

Yes, this has been the view of most people so far in this thread, but I'm starting to wonder: if it is true that God judges people only on actions, why is faith stressed throughout the Bible (and in other religions, too)? Why believe at all if all you're judged on is works? I think the judging system is more complicated than you or me can understand.

In conclusion, all this cause--->effect statements are rather simplistic to fully describe the issue... One finds his/her own answers in the unique way road that is his/her life... That's what I go by, in any case...

I respect your beliefs, Dr. Dweaver. You are thinking things out, which is very good. I do believe that God looks favorably upon all pure-hearted people.

wow your english is flawless, man- I'm shocked it's not your native tounge (you have a bigger vocabulary than me!)

maybe it's because I'm in my mid - 20s and was watching many American movies when I was pre-teen...

if it is true that God judges people only on actions, why is faith stressed throughout the Bible (and in other religions, too)? Why believe at all if all you're judged on is works? I think the judging system is more complicated than you or me can understand.

That's something that probably the Phariseans( sp? ) would say about the Old Book in their time. Times are changing, actions changing along with them... Remember Jesys, when he said he could destroy the Temple and rebuild it in 3 days? What did the Old Order thought of him then? Blasphemer and Heretic... This goes to tell you that only by actions can man judge, while god, should he exist, can judge by heart too... I believet the bible is too stuffy material for people to believe in nowadays. Times have changed, and the scripts are outdated. No one said god should never be adaptable...

I respect your beliefs, Dr. Dweaver. You are thinking things out, which is very good.

I remember a time way back when I was actually over-thinking. maybe my beliefs right now are the residue of that cataclysmic ( in my mind, anyway ) period...

great discussions there guys.....

and now to the moment no one was waiting for:

The COOLmac TIMES
The sequential chain of events that leads COOLmac to a conclusion that God/supreme being/Almighty one does exist

Thought that I can give you give a run-through of a little history why I end up doing the stuff which many of you think as either funny/irrelevant/idiotic/incoherent and many other stuff………the best of them all is why do I believe in GOD and why do I babble too much about the bible.

It all began when I was a kid….i am a mix race of mostly Chinese/Filipino…..so when I started to have a little view in life my father opened up the topic Christianity to me….. the folks end up sending me to a Christian school in my mother’s province….back then kids there are always super behaved and not so civilized….i became the cool one….and soon because I grew taller faster than other kids there, lotta boys came to my aid during fist fights….as young at heart I loved the attention and I ended up as a bully….yes I formed groups after groups through out elementary to protect myself from being beaten up by other guys…I have my wall of protection with me as I grew up….i’m also very fascinated of science which I consider to be more perfect than religion itself…kids at elementary were terrorized by me and the topic, God, was nowhere in my vocabulary then..
Came highschool…I was into sports(soccer) and the attention I received doubled plus the fact that my gang and our brotherhood stood still….some friends of mine were already involved with girls and other adolescent kinda stuff….so in a few months I was hooked also…..i started to have short flings and weekly/month relationships with girls and I started a rock band then started worshipping rock music and all…..although I didn’t do drugs I was involved in alcohol and heavy partying in high school…..sometimes when I came accross with somebody I don’t like we get to beat the hell out of them….my gang was kinda feared during those dark times of my life, hard to admit I had my share of laughs when I was a “bad boy” like I said I was a gang leader of some sort...always fightin always fightin.

Now when I was preparing to enter college, I was treated to a vacation in one of our rice farms….there I have a peaceful 2 months stay….with those two months I have enjoyed nature….it somehow cleared my mind of many things and I started to feel at calm with life and its beauty, there I was staring at the star feeling empty/lonely.something in my life just ain’t right I said to myself …. thats all about to change when I entered the early years of college……old habits are very hard to break and I was back to my old bad self….lots of girls and lots of ass beating….although I was into sports and other strenuous activities I lack the time to fully concentrate about religion at all. Until the day my first serious relationship came….she was like an angel to me…..half way to my engineering course I was introduced to my first bible(a NEW KING JAMES VERSION) I set it aside at first but during my fights with this girl I always look at it’s prayer parts. for the first time ever I was deeply praying….but I have doubts to who I was praying to…my ex girl always as gentle as she is came to my aid….to help me fully understand what has been missing in my life she told me that I have to look back in what I have done so far…so it took me about a month of soul searching and looking back to my old self…then I realized I wasn’t very happy about my life at all….she was right….but I can’t seem to convince my self that there is a God yet just by reading the bible.(at that time I find some of the stories very out of this world and impossible) she then gave me 3 things to think about: these three things if answered by my own individual research without using the bible, then I’m surely destined to be without a god all my life, so instead of being skeptical I opened my mind and heart to these 3 questions:
1. If everything was really by accident, how come the planets are aligned (yes even just in our solar systems) perfectly that they avoided bumping to each other. And why are they round if it is all just a coincidence no group of planets can be that round…..
2. Can you named a book besides the bible, which answers all questions raised to the nature of man? Why we feel love, hatred and why do we feel respect to our parents. The very best psychoanalytic books cannot overshadow the facts found in the bible
3. If you are really against what is written in the bible name at least 3 things which you feel cannot be/or best describe there...
I named three
Human anatomy and health issues
Political issues
Spiritual coherency

After I tested all these 3 questions. I was shocked……..My goodness looks, like the bible has no flaws…. Instead of mocking things which I thought I knew were not found in the bible, they were just there. Only I didn’t understand it at first…
human anatomy was best explains in the old testament….there were stuff there that even science just recently discovered E.G. that circumcision is at best after 8 days, the women’s monthly period. Personal hygiene.
Secondly in political issues---------all the things about laws of man that are needed to make a whole nation function were there…..and these laws were very well describe….and lastly just when I thought everything was all in blasphemy about who really God is…each books were very coherent and stayed on track about spirituality….and these after I haven’t even started reading it yet…I was amazed that after all those wasted years I always thought that I was against what was written in the bible, but no the bible was just plain logical and wasn’t even against me but stand by me….and to know that things were written there by many writers in varying era spanning to hundreds to even thousand of years apart.one can only wonder if they really are indeed inspired by God’s hand to jolt these messages down so that in human language, God has spoken unto us…
After my eye opener….at the start of my 3rd year in college I started to read the bible in its entirety….it took a whole year to finish them all….then I started to revert to the king James version and make some notes in my computer…..then I started studying a little bit of history about each book…..then every time I have an unanswered question popping into my head I prayed wholeheartedly and seek the help I need from what I have read inside the bible……slowly my life has change… I no longer get into heavy bad moods….my sports life is at bloom, my grades were getting high, my skill in the scriptures were getting positive results…..i held a weekly debate in our university garden(people hang out there) to anyone who challenged me in any topic using the bible as the weapon…….the only downfall to these success are, I lost my “bad friends” I used to have so many…now I can only count them, but I guess they’re true anyways….i have a new relationship with this girl but after our graduation she was fed up by me because of my deep conviction of “some things” that are wrong and that are right. in other words we often argue about the simplest of things….lastly I can’t seem to appreciate the dark side anymore….i stopped drinking heavily….i stopped going to porn movie houses…..i stopped flirting much with girls for the sole purposed of getting them to bed….but yes all of these came with a great price….i enjoyed life….i smiled often….i never get a bad headache….some of you might even notice that in the way I interact in these forums…somehow my life changes….i’m never bored of life’s redundancy…the words of God has inspired me to lived my life the way a real life should be lived….i don’t need to kneel my knees everyday or get my head shaved nor get stuck up in prayer for hours…no that is not what the bible tells us to do so…..they were just all TRADITION…that’s why many are hindered in observing a religion with God because they felt that they are restricted somehow, but serving God is very easy my friend you just have to know HOW…yes there are a lot of restrictions, but there are also a lotta of benefits…trust me I felt them benefits somehow…..its just like having to go to a strict diet…you can’t eat many kinda of foods….but that doesn’t stop you from eating delicious food still and benefited a great healthy body from it…

So that’s basically my life…..i don’t lead by example mind you… I just posted it here so that anyone who wants to know who the real COOLmac really is and what the hell happened to him all his life…well here’s my prologue…..i’m sorry if this seem to be the longest post in all of the NLSC forums….Godspeed everyone and PEACE be with you always…..

any violent reactions are welcome.......

i'll add something to this...

1. If everything was really by accident, how come the planets are aligned (yes even just in our solar systems) perfectly that they avoided bumping to each other. And why are they round if it is all just a coincidence no group of planets can be that round…..

I suppose there're alot of rocks in space..
if everything was really by accident, how come the earth dont get hit by any of them.. (though it had been hit once etc..)which then prove the calculations of the scientists wrong..(cuz they calculate which day the earth will be hit.. )

Look at a table or a chair..
if everything was really by accident, then if u put pieces of woods into a box, and then shake it.. no matter how many times u do it, it will still be woods alone, they won't turn into chairs and tables.. There's always a designer or a builder of it...
so look at this universe.. how big n pretty... it surely wasn't created randomly..
there's an architect behind this, who is God himself!

I suppose you guys know what Science is all bout....
but alot of famous scientists believe in the existence of God..

FYI the guy who came up with Atheism.. was a Priest...
and he eventually believed in God again.. when he was old..

thanks mr.SO
like what a wise man used to say
"if there is no God, you're nose must be upside down, and looking alot like a funnel....so that when you're in the rain, your nose will suck up all the raindrops straight to your brain.... but no it was design to be facing down.....and God is responsible for that

The COOLmac TIMES

hope it doesn't end up becoming a real newspaper coz that had so many grammatical errors...

COOLmac, you've inspired me to tell my story to date, and my views on God throughout my life, as well.

The biggest thing that happened to me as a kid was when I was 5 years old my mother died from breast cancer. At the time my dad was never around much, and even though he and my mom were never divorced, he told me many years later that they probably would have ended up that way, because he was very immature. My father was a victim of very physically abusive parents- they were OLD SCHOOL Italians, and it didn't take much for them to hand out severe whuppings to their kids. It was so bad that my dad ran away from home at 16 years old, to live on his own...

Anyway I tell you this so you can better understand the psychology of my father. He was very immature b/c of his bad upbringing, and never spent any time around the house. He was actually addicted to playing basketball- he would play about 4 hours every day after he got home from work...and my mother, myself, and my younger brother and sister rarely saw him. So, when my mom died, my father found himself with the direct and sole responsiblity of raising three kids all 5 years and younger, when he himself was still in his 20s and wanting to just work and have fun.

Before I go on I want to talk about my mother a little. She had a history of cancer, first getting Hodgkins disease when she was a teenager. She came from an aetheist family, but became a Christian in college. Some people may read this and say BINGO- of course, she only believed because it helped her cope with her disease. Which could be true, except for the fact that when the cancer went away for about 20 years and she was living a normal life, her faith only got stronger and stronger.

When she was on her death-bed with breast cancer, she said that she had a vision that Jesus Christ visited her in her hospital room. She even got up from her bed and walked a little, which was not impossible for her- she was just very very weak.

So she dies and my dad is stuck with three babies ages 5 (me), 4, and 2. My mother's family never liked my father, they were straight-laced anglo-saxons, while he was a laborer, an Italian, and they never wanted my mother to marry him in the first place. And so they truly didn't believe that he could raise us kids by himself, and I believe wished that he would have gave us up to them to raise.

But my father was a proud man, and did a great job raising his family. One thing I noticed was how he came to really believe and trust in God, despite our many difficulties. He was raised Catholic by his parents, but then he switched to a Protestant in college. But his faith wasn't strong until after he was forced after my mother's death to be mature, to take responsibility for his actions, and to trust God when he didn't know how we were going to make it.

Now my father was no saint, and neither was my mother. But me as a child seeing their dependence, trust, and love for God made faith a very natural thing for me. I've never questioned the root of it, the fact that faith can make you whole, only seeking to clarify and understand it better.

I feel that I've been blessed. I read that "If a mistake you made causes you to learn something very important, that mistake may be the best thing that ever happened to you." In this same sense, I feel that my mother's death did wonders for my entire family. She was the only one who was ready to go to heaven, so God chose her to come first, and inspire the rest of the family to want to follow. But let me tell you that I do not that that I have a free ticket to heaven. I have a feeling that my life is supposed to be very important, that I'm going to be a warrior in life for righteousness. Whatever that means...

Now I post all this just so everyone can understand me, who is making so many posts in this thread, better. Although I wish that everyone would read the Bible in some way and would be spiritual, I am not trying to sell anything, to con anyone, to trick anyone. I'm a very tolerant person. Ultimately, you're going to believe what you're going to believe. I just love talking about religion/God/spirituality.

But I must say, I think that things happen for a reason, and those of you who are on the fence, or totally reject God/spirituality, maybe there's a reason why you have been reading this thread, and you have gained much knowledge and wisdom about the facts, philosophy, and psychology of those who believe and do not believe.

And who would have thought that this would happen here? In an NBA Live forum?

i’m sorry if this seem to be the longest post in all of the NLSC forums

I think I beat you, dude

I'm sorry, if it's a Cool Mac inspired post, it's far from being read-worthy.

(Nah, just messing, I'm not into the whole God blah blah stories.)

Secondly, it's not the longest post, there are a lot of long posts, a lot longer than that one for sure.

If everything was really by accident, how come the planets are aligned (yes even just in our solar systems) perfectly that they avoided bumping to each other

Science does not preach that the world/universe was created 'by accident' . There are natural laws that dictate the flow of all things, laws wich DO NOT HAVE TO BE God-derived... No one said anything about flukes or accidents...

Can you named a book besides the bible, which answers all questions raised to the nature of man? Why we feel love, hatred and why do we feel respect to our parents. The very best psychoanalytic books cannot overshadow the facts found in the bible

If they told a scientist to write such a book, and give him 1000 years to perfect it, it would be done. Son after son would add little tidbits of wisdom and therefore produce the desired result. Much like the Bible...

I just posted it here so that anyone who wants to know who the real COOLmac really is and what the hell happened to him all his life…

Have you any idea how much more there is to see? Never stay in one place for too long, never be complacent... Things will happen, experiences you will go through, and it all is going to weld your final personality, on ethat is only concluded at the exact moment when you will die... Only then are you complete and final, whether that be good or bad...

And why are they round if it is all just a coincidence no group of planets can be that round…..

They're not round, they're elliptic in shape. Minor detail, you say. Maybe, but circle is considered by many religions to be the perfect shape, and sphere the perfect object. And planets are NOT round...

if everything was really by accident, then if u put pieces of woods into a box, and then shake it.. no matter how many times u do it, it will still be woods alone, they won't turn into chairs and tables.. There's always a designer or a builder of it...
so look at this universe.. how big n pretty... it surely wasn't created randomly..
there's an architect behind this, who is God himself!

Which brings us to the topic of entropy, one of the greatest philosophical issues in modern science. Entropy is the tendency there is in the universe, for everything to break down, disorganize, disintegrate, and eventually fall apart. If a glass falls from the table, we know it will break into a gazillion little pieces, never to be repiared again. This is the work of entropy: Using the force of gravity, it takes a perfectly organised assembly of molecules and atoms, and turns it into a heavily disorganized assembly of thesameatoms. Thermodynamically, there is a minimal statistical probability that the pieces of the glass can reorganize themselves into the original glass, but the possibility is so near absolute 0, that we never witness it ourselves...

This applies to tables,chairs etc. Entropy by itself will slowly make a chair's wood rot,decay, and eventually destroy the object as a whole. On the other hand, the small pieces of wood form themselves into a chair only with the work of a carpenter, who fights against entropy in the effort. He uses energy to do that, moving muscles, burning calories,eating food to sustain himself...

Man's fate in the universe is a losing battle against entropy... There is no escape... In a few billion years from now, stars will explode, making suns die, and the universe will get colder and colder unable to sustain life in the end. That would be the death of all things as we know them or can imagine them, and it is the work of that ever-eluding vague concept known as entropy...

"if there is no God, you're nose must be upside down, and looking alot like a funnel....so that when you're in the rain, your nose will suck up all the raindrops straight to your brain.... but no it was design to be facing down.....and God is responsible for that

Or evolution... Charles Darwin stated that Evolution is a natural process, following distinct laws ... The main law is that species involve in order to survive and fit themselves better with their surroundings... So since it wouldn't be plaeasant or fitting to inhale raindrops, Evolution made it so our nostrils face downwards...

If a mistake you made causes you to learn something very important, that mistake may be the best thing that ever happened to you."

That's my motto as well. Look for the positive in everything. Every little experience you go through is intended to make you better as a person by the end of the day than the person you were the day before... Live by that credo, and thou shall never falter in your step...



In conclusion: You never choose what you believe... it comes on its own, a strange pull from whithin the deepest reaches of your existance, that tells you at any given time what is the right thing FOR YOU to do... All we have to do is follow that calling and see where it takes us...

I never said that I do not believe in any form of higher existence out there in the universe... The problem is that I would feel extremely stupid if I was attempting to comprehend the meaning of the entire cosmos without knowing my own self fully... Until that happens, my searching eyes will be facing inwards rather than outwards...

Secondly, it's not the longest post, there are a lot of long posts, a lot longer than that one for sure.

OK Jackal, and welcome to this thread.

Man's fate in the universe is a losing battle against entropy

Could be, but once again, in that case I would view it as God creating entropy, and evolution, etc, or making for the possibility of it coming into existence.

(You and I are running in circles, friend )

I never said that I do not believe in any form of higher existence out there in the universe

Do you then?

Dweaver99027 , El Greco

How come you changed your name? Can I still call you just Dweaver, to save my wrists?

Nice testimonials, COOLmac and bullsfan009. It's nice to see you guys and people around you grasp some universal truths, and find meaning within life that is "life giving" rather than destructive.

Could be, but once again, in that case I would view it as God creating entropy, and evolution, etc, or making for the possibility of it coming into existence.

(You and I are running in circles, friend

True. This is the eternal 'Which one came first, the egg or the hen?' question. Nothing can be totally convincing in either direction... We are debating for the sake of thinking, no?

Dweaver99027 , El Greco wrote:
I never said that I do not believe in any form of higher existence out there in the universe

Do you then?

I do. But i do not call this higher intelligence ' God '. I see it as a governing set of laws, that does not interfere with each human's destiny. It's like 'God' created the universe and then said: 'I've wound up the clock my way, now let's leave it to do its thing until entropy breaks it down in the end.'

Can I still call you just Dweaver, to save my wrists?

Dweaver remains unchanged, just some linguistic paraphernalia change. In other words, yes, just call me Dweaver or DW, for further wrist ease...

hope it doesn't end up becoming a real newspaper coz that had so many grammatical errors...

i guess that would be the time to hire an editor eh?

and to Dark Wing este DW.....i admired your beliefs, you really are a lawyer i must say.....although i can easily disrupt your opinions and answer them, but your representation and minute detailing of your views will just make me look bad.......i'm glad to know that atleast somehow you believe something is behind all these things around us.....well that's a start.

bullsfan many thanks for making this thread a long worthwile read......as you can see.......we really are goind in circles but no matter.atleast many more are coming out and staking their views in here.good job