Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

[Null17]

Which is why being a highflyer sucks in WWE. All your moves are banned and you get crappy to no storylines whatsoever and you rarely get in the title picture except for the Cruiserweight belt, which is also treated rather poorly.

[Andrew]

I guess it wouldn't be a surprise if you have a pet monkey dressed as a pirate whose name is Patches.

Afraid not. But never say never.

Which is why being a highflyer sucks in WWE. All your moves are banned and you get crappy to no storylines whatsoever and you rarely get in the title picture except for the Cruiserweight belt, which is also treated rather poorly.

Perhaps Rey Mysterio's title reign will change that...but I doubt it.

[shadowgrin]

moves are banned

I think the WWE's pussified now. I still remember the "Attitude" days when moves weren't banned. WCW was the one banning moves and look liked a wuss. The same step is being walked by WWE today, sheesh.

[Null17]

the fucking piledriver is banned geez.

[Yessie]

look what happen to Austin after a piledriver. hes carrier was cut short cause of it.

[Null17]

just because someone botched it doesn't mean everyone is going to. it should be the wrestlers' choice to do it or not.

[Andrew]

A lot of wrestlers are seriously injured every year around the world, I think it's fair enough that the WWE wants to protect their talent. That said, it should come down to the wrestlers involved and quite often it does. The Undertaker went back to the Tombstone when he went back to the Deadman gimmick because most wrestlers feel safe working with him and trust him with that move. Likewise, Mick Foley performed a piledriver at Wrestlemania 22 in his match with Edge. More trust is placed in those experienced performers.

[Null17]

Reminds me of the time when London was still Cruiserweight champ and requested Vince to allow the Cruisers to have more freedom with their moves. Shortly after, he gets his belt removed and he becomes a tag team jobber with Spanky.

[Andrew]

Well, Vince has a point. Wrestling doesn't need creative moves or impressive matches. It just needs overused gimmicks to get matches/storylines over, lame characters, controversy for the sake of being controversial and above all, a healthy dose of McMahon.

[koberulz]

true, true. which is why they've shortened the last two smackdown wrestlemania main events. i mean, the match isnt important is it? you already know who wins before you go out there, why not just announce it over the PA? youd draw more fans.

[shadowgrin]

just because someone botched it doesn't mean everyone is going to. it should be the wrestlers' choice to do it or not.

I agree. Most of it depends on the wrestlers themselves, and if McMahon wants to protect his "investment" he should sign up wrestlers with actual mat skills and not just pumped up individuals with no ring skills at all like John Cena, or Batista, or Chris Masters, or... the list goes on.

[Andrew]

I'd have to disagree on Batista, he's above Cena and Masters and he's become a lot better playing a character and cutting promos. Certainly his physique and brute strength get him by some of the time but he's a lot more solid than Cena is right now and Masters probably ever will be.

[Drex]

Well, Vince has a point. Wrestling doesn't need creative moves or impressive matches. It just needs overused gimmicks to get matches/storylines over, lame characters, controversy for the sake of being controversial and above all, a healthy dose of McMahon.

LMAO, that's what you call sarcasm I agree with the thing about the banned moves. They're fucking wrestling, every move is a potential injury, but that's why they're professionals. They should know how to do it.

[Null17]

Batista still sucks but he's a lot better than Masters and Cena. I still skip his matches most of the time. But he's promos are ok at least. He doesn't mumble like masters nor does he try too much to suck up to people like what Cena has been doing with his Chain Gang and Hustle, Loyalty crap...In a ideal world though, Batista should be in the midcard

[Riot]

I just downloaded my favorite wrestling match of all time (Jeff Hardy v Undertaker, Raw 2002-ladder match) from limewire. Man, that was such a great match.

[Andrew]

Batista still sucks but he's a lot better than Masters and Cena. I still skip his matches most of the time. But he's promos are ok at least. He doesn't mumble like masters nor does he try too much to suck up to people like what Cena has been doing with his Chain Gang and Hustle, Loyalty crap...In a ideal world though, Batista should be in the midcard

I think he's legit main event. He's certainly over and that goes a long way in solidifying his status. I'd like to see him work a program with Angle or Mysterio when he returns, wrestlers like those two have a way of bringing up their opponents' game and making them look a lot better.

Then of course you have the guys who just can't do anything for their opponents, like Mark Henry. Undertaker is past his physical prime (though doing better than most of the wrestlers in their 40s) and he's not a Bret Hart in terms of what he can do but he's still a good worker, one of the better big guys we've seen. John C. (a writer over at Rajah's, not to be confused with John Cena) put it best with his WM22 review when he noted that Undertaker "had his working boots on" but Henry is just plain no good. And he's not normally a huge fan of Taker.

So I reckon if you put Batista with Angle, it's likely it will be a good feud with some good matches.

I agree with the thing about the banned moves. They're fucking wrestling, every move is a potential injury, but that's why they're professionals. They should know how to do it.

Ah, but that's the thing. Not all wrestlers are talented or safe to work with so there has to be some restrictions. But in a match with capable, talented and responsible wrestlers, you'd think the WWE would allow some leeway. And I think they do, since Undertaker still does the tombstone and Mick Foley usually performs the pulling piledriver in his matches (as he did with Edge at WM22).

[shadowgrin]

I'd have to disagree on Batista, he's above Cena and Masters and he's become a lot better playing a character and cutting promos.

I do agree on Batista improving his promo skills, but his ring skills leave something to be desired. He has the potential to be great with his strength and agility but sometimes he reverts to the same set of boring "power moves" in some matches. He's still interesting than "pump my shoes" Cena though.

[Null17]

Andrew has a point though. Batista's "carry-able" especially when pitted with guys like Triple H and Kurt Angle.

[shadowgrin]

I think that's what the WWE were trying to do with Cena and HHH. They were hoping that HHH would carry Cena and propel Cena's image into a positive one with the fans.

[BZ]

Then of course you have the guys who just can't do anything for their opponents, like Mark Henry. Undertaker is past his physical prime (though doing better than most of the wrestlers in their 40s) and he's not a Bret Hart in terms of what he can do but he's still a good worker, one of the better big guys we've seen. John C. (a writer over at Rajah's, not to be confused with John Cena) put it best with his WM22 review when he noted that Undertaker "had his working boots on" but Henry is just plain no good. And he's not normally a huge fan of Taker.

That match was utter crap compared to Undertaker's WM21 match with Orton. Although the highlight of the match was Taker's flying lariat to the outside on Henry... that was something special... rarely does a guy Taker's size do that. Other than that, WM22 was pretty lackluster, only great match was Edge vs Foley, other than that, WM22 was as good as a regular, any other month PPV.

[koberulz]

mania wasn't that bad....cena-trips was a very good match, as was rey-angle-orton (apart from the obvious length factor), the women's title match was good. edge-foley was awesome, but you mentioned that already. mitb was the usual spot-fest as well....apart from the playboy and boogeyman matches, it was a bloody good PPV. definitely worth the money, and none of the other PPVs are. it's certainly worth rewatching, even though taping it is illegal....but who cares. i already spent an hour and a half on that DVD cover, and im not going to have that time wasted. I'll definitely be coming back to that tape/DVD several times. Compare this to Judgment Day. I got the DVD and watched it twice. I won't be watching it again. Not worth it.

[Andrew]

I think that's what the WWE were trying to do with Cena and HHH. They were hoping that HHH would carry Cena and propel Cena's image into a positive one with the fans.

I don't know if HHH is doing a good enough job playing the heel in the feud though. Or perhaps it's simply too far-gone with Cena and (like we've all said) it's really time for him to make the turn, belt or not. Champions have turned before so it would hardly be unprecedented and might even work out.

That match was utter crap compared to Undertaker's WM21 match with Orton. Although the highlight of the match was Taker's flying lariat to the outside on Henry... that was something special... rarely does a guy Taker's size do that.

Agreed, it was a big letdown not only after last year's match against Orton but also the matches he had against Angle recently. He's done that "Air Taker" lariat a few times before. There was a great one against Kane back in Unforgiven 1998 in the first Inferno Match. Awesome visual as he leapt over the top rope and the flames landing on Kane and Vader.

[koberulz]

I think that's what the WWE were trying to do with Cena and HHH. They were hoping that HHH would carry Cena and propel Cena's image into a positive one with the fans.

I don't know if HHH is doing a good enough job playing the heel in the feud though. Or perhaps it's simply too far-gone with Cena and (like we've all said) it's really time for him to make the turn, belt or not. Champions have turned before so it would hardly be unprecedented and might even work out.

Rocky Maivia was in exactly the same situation years ago. they put him in the nation of domination to turn him heel, he started getting cheers, he pulled a batista-evolution on the nation, and became the most electrifying man in sports entertainment.

That match was utter crap compared to Undertaker's WM21 match with Orton. Although the highlight of the match was Taker's flying lariat to the outside on Henry... that was something special... rarely does a guy Taker's size do that.

Agreed, it was a big letdown not only after last year's match against Orton but also the matches he had against Angle recently. He's done that "Air Taker" lariat a few times before. There was a great one against Kane back in Unforgiven 1998 in the first Inferno Match. Awesome visual as he leapt over the top rope and the flames landing on Kane and Vader.

Yeah, that was awesome. Kinda lame the ending to that match, but that dive was

[airtsinelas]

I don't know if HHH is doing a good enough job playing the heel in the feud though. Or perhaps it's simply too far-gone with Cena and (like we've all said) it's really time for him to make the turn, belt or not. Champions have turned before so it would hardly be unprecedented and might even work out.

I'm not quite sold on HHH doing a good job in this feud, it seems that he is doing an "indirect" burying of Cena in this feud like he has done so in the past. About a Cena heel turn, actually the WWE can used this if done properly if they acknowledge it.

[Andrew]

Rocky Maivia was in exactly the same situation years ago. they put him in the nation of domination to turn him heel, he started getting cheers, he pulled a batista-evolution on the nation, and became the most electrifying man in sports entertainment.

I know, I watched it unfold at the time. But that's the thing, WWE isn't recognizing the situation now that it's happening with Cena and riding the negative reactions until the crowd gets behind him again, they're trying to dictate the crowd reactions and the more they try, the worse the problem seems to get.

I'm not quite sold on HHH doing a good job in this feud, it seems that he is doing an "indirect" burying of Cena in this feud like he has done so in the past. About a Cena heel turn, actually the WWE can used this if done properly if they acknowledge it.

The thought has come to mind as HHH apparently isn't a huge fan of Cena but I think these days with his position in the company rock solid he's more comfortable putting people over. But I don't think he's playing the heel aggressively enough to garner any sympathy for Cena (funny, because he was apparently critical of Kurt Angle for the same reason). Mind you, it's hard with Cena constantly booked to overcome the odds.

As the company's top face, Austin overcame the odds a lot but he also got screwed plenty of times and in his feud with McMahon, was up against a clear cut heel owner whose character easily established himself as evil and the person to be despised; the fans all wanted Austin to triumph. It helps that Austin is a much better worker than Cena but the booking made sure he kept the support of the fans. Likewise, Rock wasn't invincible as a face.