A Jaeatribe on immigration... sort of

[benji]

You'll be surprised I imagine. Especially on those loans (which are based in their law if anyone else doesn't know) and such.

Western Civilization has a knack for trying to kill itself with itself.

[Fresh8]

But I'm not talking about disrespecting culture here, I'm talking about actual law.

Yeah, I know. I was just saying that since it's the law with very tough penalties if you do not adhere, even if one did disrespect the culture there, they would stil have to play by the rules. What I was trying to get at is how different Australia and Saudi Arbia are and it's hard to compare the two.

[Andrew]

True, they are very different cultures. But both countries have laws, which citizens and tourists alike are expected to adhere to else face the consequences.

[J@3]

Should people be exempt from learning because it's too hard?

Absolutely not.

Ok, my point is that you refer to 'migrant parents' passing on lack of Australian culture to their children. that's why I say, 'its a bit harsh if you send them all back now just because they don't know the language.'

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying the ones who are coming here shouldn't be allowed unless they have some grasp of English or at least be forced to learn it once they are here. I wouldn't send people back just because the governments of the past have had flawed immigration policies, but it is a gripe of mine nonetheless.

You're confusing the two distinctly different groups. There are people who have been here a long time already and there's hardly anything you can do about them in regard to their language skills and/or whether they stay here. Then there are people who are coming in the present day who wouldn't be coming if they did not have at least a competent grasp of English. The people who don't speak the language were those of my parent's generation who came in the 80s... the people coming now would know English at a basic level to communicate.

But it's simply not true that the people coming here now have to have at least a competent grasp of English. All of these Indians coming out of the woodwork and flooding Melbourne haven't been here for years, same as all of the people from Iran and Iraq etc that are now descending onto Australia. They can't speak a word of it and the government caters to that by making it easy for them to get by without speaking a word of English.

Ok, firstly, I don't know of any All-Asian schools in Brisbane. Same with public housing, are their public houses that accommodate for only Asians?

You're speaking in absolute specifics because you don't have an argument against the fact that what your brother does is a form of segregation. The "schools, housing and facilities" are just examples, the actual meaning is "The policy or practice of separating people of different races, classes, or ethnic groups" your brother separates himself by socializing only with Asians.

As I said, Asians hang out with Asians because they have more similar interests than with others. It's the same with many different people of cultural backgrounds (Chinese, Indian, Vietnamese). These people hang out together because they have similar traits and values and beliefs.

The policy or practice of separating people of different races, classes, or ethnic groups

How are you not seeing this?

it does not mean that they disrespect Western culture.

It's disrespectful because they are excluding everyone who does not belong to their race/religion which leads to resentment.

Look at it this way. Imagine you were having a party at your house, you invited 50 people. Twenty of them came to your house, consumed your food, enjoyed your alcohol but when you tried to make conversation with them basically wanted nothing to do with you because you weren't one of them, despite the fact it was your house and you invited them in. That metaphor what is happening in Australia.

And on segregation, I will post a definition later when I get home from Uni.

Why? I just posted the definition from dictionary.com. Multiple times in fact.

However, in my opinion, segregation is like in the 90s when there were exclusively White and Black Schools. That's segregation and becomes that when one race believes it is better than the other: ethnocentrism.

That was forced segregation, that doesn't mean it is the only kind of segregation. It has nothing to do with one race believing it's better than the other, like the definition says, it is the practice of separating people of different races/classes or ethnic groups. The thoughts/feelings/opinions/reasons behind it are irrelevant.

[cyanide]

With that being said, this snippet here doesn't really seem to apply to a place like Toronto though:

The worst part of this for me is the message these migrants hand down to their children. Alot of the children are born in Australia, raised in Australia and act as if they are foreigners and belong to a country alot of them have never even visited, so they themselves continue the tradition of congregating with their own and segregating themselves from the wider (Australian) population at the same time thus continuing the trend.

Where I live in Canada, it's very similar to what Its_asdf said, with what he quoted being the exception.

My parents are both immigrants, and so naturally there are a few customs, habits and cultural aspects that I take from their country, but since I was born here, I've assimilated to the Canadian culture and we do very well as a multicultural country. I mean, segregation and racism exists, but we still see each other as Canadians rather than exclusively belonging to a specific minority.

[Fresh8]

Absolutely not.

I wasn't asking the question, just restating it.

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying the ones who are coming here shouldn't be allowed unless they have some grasp of English or at least be forced to learn it once they are here. I wouldn't send people back just because the governments of the past have had flawed immigration policies, but it is a gripe of mine nonetheless.

What I was saying was that a lot of Asian migrants who came here in the 80s would be those 'migrant parents' you refer to. They're all here now and you really can't do anything about it. Their kids and grandkids will grow up in the Aussie culture.

But it's simply not true that the people coming here now have to have at least a competent grasp of English. All of these Indians coming out of the woodwork and flooding Melbourne haven't been here for years, same as all of the people from Iran and Iraq etc that are now descending onto Australia. They can't speak a word of it and the government caters to that by making it easy for them to get by without speaking a word of English.

Indians actually all speak English in India. English is one of the most spoken languages over there. Just because you don't see or hear them speak English, it doesn't mean they can't speak it. If you come over here to study, it's sort of hard to do so without a competent grasp of English. The culture shock along with the embarrasment (they may be shy to speak in English because they are scared they will be judged) may be reasons why they stick to their native tongue unless they are forced to speak English. I know this from seeing not only friends but also from workmates and classmates from school.

You're speaking in absolute specifics because you don't have an argument against the fact that what your brother does is a form of segregation. The "schools, housing and facilities" are just examples, the actual meaning is "The policy or practice of separating people of different races, classes, or ethnic groups" your brother separates himself by socializing only with Asians.

Ok, I've proven myself wrong. What my brother does is integrating.

"Segregation refers to maintaining one's original culture and not participating in the new culture. Segregation connotes a judgment of superiority and inferiority, as well as prejudice and hatred between groups. Assimilation results from giving up one's original cultural identity and moving into full pariticpation in the new culture. Integration is maintining important parts of one's original culture as well as becomming an integral part of the new culture. It ensures a continuity of culture. One contrast between assimilation and integration is that under assimilation policies, groups disappear but in integration, groups continue to exist. Source: Jandt, F. E. (2007). An Introduction To Intercultural Communication Identities In A Global Community. 5th Ed. Sage: California.

My brother socialises with mainly asians because he has similar interests with them. He does not hate Australians, he can speak english, he works in a Western environment, he gets involved in the culture. The main reason I used us as an example is to say we both respect the country as much as anyone else.

How are you not seeing this?

Again: Segregation refers to maintaining one's original culture and not participating in the new culture. Segregation connotes a judgment of superiority and inferiority, as well as prejudice and hatred between groups.

It's disrespectful because they are excluding everyone who does not belong to their race/religion which leads to resentment.

Actually, I'm more than certain that if you ever wanted to hang out with a group of Asians, they would more than welcome you. But you'd probably run out of things to talk about and you, yourself, would become bored.

Look at it this way. Imagine you were having a party at your house, you invited 50 people. Twenty of them came to your house, consumed your food, enjoyed your alcohol but when you tried to make conversation with them basically wanted nothing to do with you because you weren't one of them, despite the fact it was your house and you invited them in. That metaphor what is happening in Australia.

If someone else from Australia on these forums can say that they agree with you on that, then I will admit that I am wrong about it.

So at the end of all this, all I'm trying to get at is that just because some people choose to do their own things, it does not mean they are not involved in the community. It does not mean that they disrespect or hate the Australian culture. I agree with you that the people coming here should know english because it will not only help them but it will also mean that they will be able to learn about the culture because "... culture and communication are strongly connected." For example, in 10 years time, I do not want my family doctor to not know how to speak English.

I think, not in all cases, that perhaps people have had a misunderstanding in that they think that people are disrespectful because they don't speak the native language of the country and count this as segregating themselves from the community. This is absolutedly not true. You need to look past that first fact and see why people don't prefer to speak English. Some may be due to lack of english skills and you would see this with older generations of migrants. A lot of people coming over now will have to know English well enough to work here or study here. They probably don't speak it due to culture shock and thus seek out people of their own race/culture and feel most comfortable associating with them. You can't count that as 'disrespecting'. And even when they try to fit in, they may feel anxiety and again, that hinders their ability to improve their communication skills in the country. It's only once they get past that, they start to feel accepted and then a successful integration will occur. And this is can be a quick or slow phase depending on the person.

[Andrew]

I think Jae's party metaphor is a pretty good one, for what it's worth.

[J@3]

What I was saying was that a lot of Asian migrants who came here in the 80s would be those 'migrant parents' you refer to. They're all here now and you really can't do anything about it. Their kids and grandkids will grow up in the Aussie culture.

Actually I was inititally referring to Lebanese/Arabic people when I was talking about the way their kids act. You applied it to Asians because you can relate to the situation.

Indians actually all speak English in India.

Are you joking or being sarcastic? The 1991 Indian census states that under 9% of the country speaks English. I'm sure that's risen since but even if it was doubled (which I'd strongly doubt) it's still a low number, and not "all" of them

English is one of the most spoken languages over there. Just because you don't see or hear them speak English, it doesn't mean they can't speak it. If you come over here to study, it's sort of hard to do so without a competent grasp of English. The culture shock along with the embarrasment (they may be shy to speak in English because they are scared they will be judged) may be reasons why they stick to their native tongue unless they are forced to speak English. I know this from seeing not only friends but also from workmates and classmates from school.

There's no real need to respond to that because your "all Indians speak English" argument was false but nevertheless, if people are coming here part time I don't care what language they speak or what they do. If they are coming here permanately that's where I have a problem.

"Segregation refers to maintaining one's original culture and not participating in the new culture.

Sounds like what you described your brother doing.

Segregation connotes a judgment of superiority and inferiority, as well as prejudice and hatred between groups.

You know that connotes means to imply... which means whatever you copy/pasted is saying segregation SUGGESTS a judgement of superiority. Not that it means there IS a judgement of superiority. Very important difference.

Assimilation results from giving up one's original cultural identity and moving into full pariticpation in the new culture.

By your description, that sounds like what you have done.

Integration is maintining important parts of one's original culture as well as becomming an integral part of the new culture. It ensures a continuity of culture. One contrast between assimilation and integration is that under assimilation policies, groups disappear but in integration, groups continue to exist. Source: Jandt, F. E. (2007). An Introduction To Intercultural Communication Identities In A Global Community. 5th Ed. Sage: California.

But your brother isn't doing that if he doesn't associate with Australians as much as he does Asians. If he's so immersed in Asian culture to the point of his friend group being fairly exclusively Asian, then he's not an integral part of the new culture. The "new" culture would be what you're doing. As much as it pains me to say it, you're actually an example of what I wish more migrants or offspring of migrants would do when they come here.

Again: Segregation refers to maintaining one's original culture and not participating in the new culture. Segregation connotes a judgment of superiority and inferiority, as well as prejudice and hatred between groups.

Again, "connotes" means imply. It is not an absolute or a law.

Actually, I'm more than certain that if you ever wanted to hang out with a group of Asians, they would more than welcome you. But you'd probably run out of things to talk about and you, yourself, would become bored

That's kinda my point... I have no problem with Asians (or any nationality), I've had friends from all over the place and it's pretty fascinating to me to learn about the kind of lives these guys had before they came here. But the whole reason I was able to do that is because they opened themselves up to it, they didn't care where you were from they looked at everyone as equal people. It wasn't a case of "you're Asian so I'll gravitate towards you".

[Fresh8]

Are you joking or being sarcastic? The 1991 Indian census states that under 9% of the country speaks English. I'm sure that's risen since but even if it was doubled (which I'd strongly doubt) it's still a low number, and not "all" of them

I should have said all, a lot of them do. I know from asking friends from there and they told me. So, my mistake. [i]Not all Indians speak English in India[i] but 90 million people do. It's one of the official languages there.

You know that connotes means to imply... which means whatever you copy/pasted is saying segregation SUGGESTS a judgement of superiority. Not that it means there IS a judgement of superiority. Very important difference.

Acutally, if it says segregation 'connotes/implies'... which means that the act of segregation suggests a judgement of superiority. Using that definition to illustrate my point I was saying that anyone or any group of people that segregate themselves would imply that they feel a sense of superiority; as you said that sense might not exist but their actions do suggest it.

But your brother isn't doing that if he doesn't associate with Australians as much as he does Asians. If he's so immersed in Asian culture to the point of his friend group being fairly exclusively Asian, then he's not an integral part of the new culture. The "new" culture would be what you're doing. As much as it pains me to say it, you're actually an example of what I wish more migrants or offspring of migrants would do when they come here.

So when was it a crime to not associate with Australians as much as Asians? After all, half the Asians he talks to are Australian Born Chinese as well. He's got qualities from the Asian and the Western culture and does it matter if his friend group is exclusively Asian? Asians are a part of the Australian culture because we stress multiculturalism too. I'm the same as my brother, we are both integrated. We hold Asian values and traditions but we also do everything that other Australians do. The only difference between us are the acitivites we enjoy to do and the friendship groups we have. And I use us as an example to show that although we have different lifestyles, it does not mean he resepcts the Western culture any less than I do.

That's kinda my point... I have no problem with Asians (or any nationality), I've had friends from all over the place and it's pretty fascinating to me to learn about the kind of lives these guys had before they came here. But the whole reason I was able to do that is because they opened themselves up to it, they didn't care where you were from they looked at everyone as equal people. It wasn't a case of "you're Asian so I'll gravitate towards you".

So when you say 'they didnt care where u were from they looked at u as equal people', does that mean you think that we look at you in that light?

And in no circumstance did I say that you should hang out with Asians because of a case of, as you said, 'you're Asian so I'll gravitate towards you'. You stated: 'It's disrespectful because they are excluding everyone who does not belong to their race/religion which leads to resentment.' I was saying, 'You can hang out with Asians if you want, no one is excluding you.'

I think Jae's party metaphor is a pretty good one, for what it's worth.

As I said I would, I will admit that I am wrong to think that that metaphor is not what sums up immigrants in Australia.

Yeah, I don't really have any more to add, just put my opinion up. Obviously you have a low tolerance with non-english speaking people and think that they should learn English and stop receiving the benefits that all other Aussies get until they actually do something within this community and culture. I don't disagree with that, I just think that there are plenty of people out there, whatever nationality they are that do know how to speak english and do undertsand and respect the Western culture but just don't hang out with Westerners as much as some might like. And perhaps people take this as disrespectful but my opinion is that it is not and it can be explained by reasons I have mentioned.

So yeah, take what I have said for what it's worth. When I speak, I speak of Asian immigrants. You state that you speak of Arabic/Lebanese people - well, we don't really have that big of a community of them up here in Brisbane. Perhaps you see things I don't see. I talk about Asians just in response to your gripe about migrant parents and that you think that just becasue some of us don't speak english all the time and have friends who are mainly asian, it means we disrespect the Western culture.

[Fcuk Orlando]

In Texas most Hispanics hang with each other in groups in speak Spanish. Even alot of teachers and staff do too. Many of the children have parents who have lived in the U.S. for years and don't know a lick of English. Where I live Hispanics are very proud of their culture and they want to pass their culture on to their children.Assimilation wont happen here because there is no motivation to do so. American employers don't care about whether someone speaks english or not as long as they can get cheap labor and there is such an establishment that they can get by with connections from their friends. It's gotten to the point where some jobs here require speaking Spanish. One major stumbling block in immigration is many immigrants like to look down on western culture/society, but don't have a problem living off it.
BTW: America doesn't legally have an official language so if English isn't official then no way in hell will Spanish be

[The X]

Sit, do you find that since you are fully integrated with the Australian culture (whilst still having a very strong connection to your Chinese heritage) as I know you have, do you find you still have as much as a connection to say Asian-only groups of people? I recall something about you having bball issues with an All-Asian basketball team at your school a number of years back. I can't recall if it was as a result of your personality being too Westernised or whether it was for another reason.

Which does make me think, how does one have an All-Asian basketball team in Australia or New Zealand (I've played against them in New Zealand too) at the high school level (I can understand on a social level where it just friends)? It seems unimaginable with both countries having a lot of different races (Caucasian, Asian, Maori, Aboriginal, Italian, Greek, African, Brazilian etc) & I don't have a logical reason for it happening outside of somebody starting a 2nd team (not the top team) & only adding their friends. I was always very curious at the time when I was playing high school ball in New Zealand, & frankly it did seem like a form of segregation to me, whether it was or it wasn't. I'm just curious to your insight on how & why this happens & whether you think this should happen or not.

[benji]

BTW: America doesn't legally have an official language

A super-majority of the states do.

[J@3]

Not all Indians speak English in India[i] but 90 million people do. It's one of the official languages there.

Yeah but they have 20 official languages, and various English dialects... so their English is somewhat different in parts.

Using that definition to illustrate my point I was saying that anyone or any group of people that segregate themselves would imply that they feel a sense of superiority; as you said that sense might not exist but their actions do suggest it.

Yeah that's right, but that doesn't mean the people segregating themselves are actually doing it because they feel superior, the implication to everyone else is that they do. That's why anger/resentment builds about it.

So when was it a crime to not associate with Australians as much as Asians? After all, half the Asians he talks to are Australian Born Chinese as well. He's got qualities from the Asian and the Western culture and does it matter if his friend group is exclusively Asian? Asians are a part of the Australian culture because we stress multiculturalism too.

It's not a crime, but it is segregation. I'm sure your brother doesn't feel superior or anything, but no matter which way you look at it (well, when you apply the definition..) it is a form of segregation. The fact that they're all Australian born Chinese goes back to what I was saying before with the "if there were 10,000 of your brother and they all hung out exclusively with Asians...". See an Australian of English heritage (or "Australian") born here would generally grow up with friends from various different ethnic groups, but your brother and his friends gravitated towards each other because they have that comment element of nationality.

Is there anything wrong with being more comfortable around your own people? No there isn't, but the problem is that instead of seeing them as Australians he's seeing them as Asians first. There's a difference between having Chinese heritage/blood and being Chinese... I'm 1/2 Italian but that doesn't make me Italian in the slightest.

So when you say 'they didnt care where u were from they looked at u as equal people', does that mean you think that we look at you in that light?

No, see this is where you're going back to the superiorty thing... "equal" was probably a bad choice of words, I meant it in the sense that they saw me the way they saw everyone else... they didn't see me as a white guy or an Australian, they just saw me as a person. Whereas alot of people (myself included really) would look at your brother for example and see an Asian. Not that we'd think we're any better or worse, but we'd see an Asian guy with alot of Asian friends probably speaking Chinese, which can make it extremely hard for outsiders to identify with them.

I'll use another metaphor. Imagine you saw a white Aussie guy walking around with a Lakers jersey... you'd immediately feel some sort of identity with him because you're a Lakers fan as well. If he was wearing a netball skirt I doubt you'd feel that same identity, because it's so far from anything you're involved or interested in. It's the same with different races/ethnic groups. If I see a group of Asians (or Lebs/Arabs/Indians etc) together speaking in their own language, I can't identify with that and they automatically become unapproachable... it's the same for ALOT of people here.

Obviously you have a low tolerance with non-english speaking people and think that they should learn English and stop receiving the benefits that all other Aussies get until they actually do something within this community and culture

I didn't say that exactly... I think they should learn English when they come to live in Australia, because this is an English speaking country. I don't think that's particularly harsh or unfair. THe benefits are another matter but to be honest I don't mind if they collect them, or if they contribute to society.

If the immigrants who were already here all spoke English well and didn't section themselves off with their own race, I'd have no problem at all.

When I speak, I speak of Asian immigrants. You state that you speak of Arabic/Lebanese people - well, we don't really have that big of a community of them up here in Brisbane. Perhaps you see things I don't see. I talk about Asians just in response to your gripe about migrant parents and that you think that just becasue some of us don't speak english all the time and have friends who are mainly asian, it means we disrespect the Western culture.

In Melbourne there aren't really so many Asians (still alot) as there are Lebs/Arabs/Indians etc, and I've noticed (and said to friends and such many times) that Asians are alot easier to live with than those groups. They don't have the sense of entitlement the others have and they've been here long enough en masse to not be a nuisance or anything. That being said, I still feel the same about the language thing with Asians, to put it in basic terms they are generally my "favourite" migrants purely because while I feel alot do segregate themselves it doesn't generally manifest itself into violence or anything belligerent.

Anyway, it's nice to have an intelligent discussion about something on the forums for once.

[Fresh8]

Sit, do you find that since you are fully integrated with the Australian culture (whilst still having a very strong connection to your Chinese heritage) as I know you have, do you find you still have as much as a connection to say Asian-only groups of people? I recall something about you having bball issues with an All-Asian basketball team at your school a number of years back. I can't recall if it was as a result of your personality being too Westernised or whether it was for another reason.

Which does make me think, how does one have an All-Asian basketball team in Australia or New Zealand (I've played against them in New Zealand too) at the high school level (I can understand on a social level where it just friends)? It seems unimaginable with both countries having a lot of different races (Caucasian, Asian, Maori, Aboriginal, Italian, Greek, African, Brazilian etc) & I don't have a logical reason for it happening outside of somebody starting a 2nd team (not the top team) & only adding their friends. I was always very curious at the time when I was playing high school ball in New Zealand, & frankly it did seem like a form of segregation to me, whether it was or it wasn't. I'm just curious to your insight on how & why this happens & whether you think this should happen or not.

We had an All-Asian basketball team because 3 of the guys did not want to play 1sts anymore, I did not make the 1sts. Then we had two other Asians try out and they were better than all the Caucasian guys and then we had Brian Winship because he was tall. All the rest of the people who tried our were thrown onto the 3rds. That's how we had an All-Asian team, because apart from those guys who played basketball (not many during the early 2000s), Asians were the only ones who liked it. Everyone else liked to play soccer or union.

We had a very good team and it's not about picking the friends, it was about talent. Granted, if the program was better sorted, we would have forced some of our Asians into the 1sts but our 1sts coach left for vacation before rejoining NBL (there went my chance for 1sts and the new coach did not know how good the other three asian guys were). So we decided it was worth it to keep the whole team in tact and found it funny at the same time that we had an All-Asian starting 5 for most games, except when Winship was allowed to start at C. And the reason that I had problems was just my personality. You know how I play and how I am, I guess the other guards did not like it. I got along with my forwards and Winship well as well...

Yeah but they have 20 official languages, and various English dialects... so their English is somewhat different in parts.

Yeah dude. It's still different forms of english, but to be fair to the whole argument, many treat it as only their second language so I did use the wrong argument here. On hindsight I should have said, people do speak english over there due to the past British rule and I would expect that those able to come over here would have spoken it back in India. I formed a very narrow view in my own mind because my friend from Dehli told me that he learnt in English at school and people in Dehli spoke both English and Hindi but I should have taken into account that that's the capital city.

Is there anything wrong with being more comfortable around your own people? No there isn't, but the problem is that instead of seeing them as Australians he's seeing them as Asians first. There's a difference between having Chinese heritage/blood and being Chinese... I'm 1/2 Italian but that doesn't make me Italian in the slightest.

Well, perhaps due to the fact that you and I grew up in different backgrounds and environments - we see it a bit different. You're half Italian but it doesn't make you Italian in the slightest, I would say that was your own personal choice and also guided by your life experiences, how you were brought up. If someone asked if I was more Western or Asian, I would not be able to say.

I agree with you that instead of seeing them as Australians, we see them as Asians first. However, wheras if you talked to them and found out they were born here, brought up here, spoke perfect english, and chose to do asian stuff in a majority of their free time - you would call them Asian still. The difference with me and you is that I would call them Asian-Australian. You know what I mean? Because I'm more comfortable with that because I have seen it and I experience it everyday. And because I'm from that background, I don't feel as overwhelmed as you. Maybe that's it?

If I see a group of Asians (or Lebs/Arabs/Indians etc) together speaking in their own language, I can't identify with that and they automatically become unapproachable... it's the same for ALOT of people here.

I understand what you mean here. In that case, yes I agree with this statement.

If the immigrants who were already here all spoke English well and didn't section themselves off with their own race, I'd have no problem at all.

For past generations before ours, I would find it hardpressed for them to undertsand and to have learnt english. People section themselves into their own races because when you form a minority, it feels safer to be in numbers and together. That's just what happens and unfortunately we can't do anything about it.

They don't have the sense of entitlement the others have and they've been here long enough en masse to not be a nuisance or anything. That being said, I still feel the same about the language thing with Asians, to put it in basic terms they are generally my "favourite" migrants purely because while I feel alot do segregate themselves it doesn't generally manifest itself into violence or anything belligerent.

As I said, I don't think you should take the language thing as disrespectful. I think the conflict and confusion occurs because of the language barrier and people think if you speak in a foreign language, then you can't be bothered to learn the native language or learn it. But as I stated before, there are many possible reasons for this to occur, no matter what ethnic group we are talking about.

Anyway, it's nice to have an intelligent discussion about something on the forums for once

No offence to some people, but this is not the place to find one.

[J@3]

Yeah, but I'm more used to this place, I already know everyone. You could say it's a form of internet segregation

Anyway now that's done and the God thread is threatening to single handedly destroy all scientific evidence about the brilliance of the human brain, what's the worst case of racism you guys have been witness to? I ask because I had a friend from Sri Lanka, he was born and raised here but people (even our teachers) constantly made references to "his country"... anyway we were out one night at a club, he had brought another Sri Lankan guy with him and we were all waiting for a taxi at the end of the night. This car load of bogans pulls up and they start yelling all sorts of shit at them, calling them n*ggers and Paki's etc... they tried to brush it off as nothing but they told me later that they were up til like 9am talking about it because it bothered them so much. Any other examples?

[Andrew]

I haven't been witness to many, though I've had neighbours who were greatly upset that Cathy Freeman was the one chosen to light the flame at the 2000 Olympics. If hearsay counts though, a friend of mine met up with one of his uni mates on a drunken night out on the town and one of that guy's friends who they subsequently met up with turned out to be part of a little neo-Nazi gang of thugs who were shouting epithets at and trying to menace anyone of any ethnicity that happened to come near or enter the service station they were at, as well as a little person. My friend told me it was a somewhat frightening experience, he's white so obviously they weren't about to come after him but it's not something he wanted to be a part of at all and he didn't want to get on their bad side. Needless to say, he made sure to avoid that clique from that point on.

[Fresh8]

I was on the train when I was 13 years old and was heckled for 10 minutes by some bogan telling me to go back to my country. I didn't say anything and just stood there because I was very shy back then. People heard and were shaking their heads but did not say a word, not to mention that it was peak hour.

Another time I was at work and some guy came up and asked this girl (I was working at Coles on the checkouts at the time) if the guy at the counter could speak english. The guy was Indian and he could speak English, not perfect and was hindered by his accent, and had just served this man. This man was probably late 30s, early 40s, and we worked in the CBD so he was dressed in formal clothes and looked like he worked in an office. I thought he was joking at first and I said, 'who? him?' and he said, 'yeah, him.' and I made a joke about it and the guy carried on making fun of the accent and the english. Then I realised he wasn't joking and I said to him, 'Mate, you're being fucking rude now. If you don't want to be served, then I would suggest you leave.' And then I yelled over to the Indian guy, 'Hey man, if he's being racist, you don't take that shit.' Then the guy pretty much left with his stuff and walked past the Indian guy and said something under his breath to him and a lady who saw it all (because it wasnt that busy at the time) told me, 'Good on you for telling him off. That guy was being racist.'

I haven't really seen any extreme forms of racism apart from just the slurring and everything but even that should not be tolerated imo.

[The X]

I haven't been witness to many, though I've had neighbours who were greatly upset that Cathy Freeman was the one chosen to light the flame at the 2000 Olympics.

I would probably agree with them that Cathy Freeman was not the right person as she was a current athlete. I feel it should've been Peter Norman. Now that would've been a statement! Although I can understand the political motivations for making Cathy Freeman the choice.

[Andrew]

True, that in itself isn't racist. Their reasoning for that assertion on the other hand, was.