Mercy Killing: Acceptable or not? [a survey]

[el badman]

A subjective truth, on the other hand, is relative to the person who asserts it.

because i hold my opinion as truth.

[puttincomputers]

yes you may well roll your eyes bad guy!

should restate that statement.
"because of the truth that i do i know i hold my opinion as truth"

[BigKaboom2]

Do you really "know" the truth or just have faith that it exists?

I do agree that abortion is wrong as I subjectively relate to the issue, but I wouldn't say it's objectively true.

[puttincomputers]

i believe we can see truth in action. especially in my own life. truth is that without divine intervention i would not be sitting here. without divine intervention my sister would never have been born. without divine intervention i would never have seen a woman on her death bed with only a few hours to live walking within a few days! therefore i know by sight that truth is real and therefore i have faith in whom i cannot naturally see, unless by divine intervention. therefore truth and faith subjective and objective at the same time. subjective in that you know for a fact, a truth, that that woman should have died but is now walking, you also know for a fact that everyone in the church prayed for her, i know for a fact that she walked. that is objective truth. now the question as to whether who healed her is subjective truth until you have proof as to who did so. now in order to find out you must reason with your mind
1. God does no evil to those he loves.
2 He loved this woman since she is his child because she has believed Christ
3 Satan hates Christians
4. Satan will try to destroy Cristians.
5 God is more powerful than satan
6. God allows evil in our lives to test us.
7 satan tries to do evil in order to make us hate God.
8 Therefore God healed her.
9. Satan hates her yet. he wants her in hell with him at the end.
therefor by subjective reasoning we have determind what an objective truth is.

[Sauru]

welcome to www.god-live.com

[benji]

that is objective truth...
therefor by subjective reasoning we have determind what an objective truth is.

What? Since when do a bunch of subjective statements combine to form an objective truth?

None of what you said is objective, and we can only assume or believe it is truth.

[puttincomputers]

so if you think everything is subjective truth why do you think you must correct some one with a different line of reasoning?

[cyanide]

so if you think everything is subjective truth why do you think you must correct some one with a different line of reasoning?

No, what benji's saying is that you cannot form an objective truth from subjective statements. Not everybody agrees with statements 1-9 that you listed, so therefore, it cannot be objective. The result is still subjective, meaning, it's your truth, not everybody else's.

[puttincomputers]

so cyanide since you believe that my objective truth is not subjective truth and you believe that by subjective truth all things are true by that definition in and of itself you jhave no beef with me saying something is truth.
in essence i am saying since you believe that all subjective truth is true then my objective truth is true otherwise you are contradicting yourself when you say my truth is subjective truth and yet you try to kill my arguments and therefore declare your subjective truth as objective.

[Sauru]

seriously wtf

[Oznogrd]

Are we still on the "discussion/argument = fighting" kick? Go to literally any other forum and you'll see that this is what they exist for.

Sorry this took me a couple days. Discussion/argument may not necessarily mean fighting, but often on this forum it seems to degrade ot that after a heated discussion. Very few people have the capability to realize that its nothing personal...

note the pronoun Your there putt: that doesnt make it objective truth, it makes it subjective. An objective truth for instance=The heart pumps blood to the body. Its been proven, it can be seen and explained using only facts and no assumptions.

your statements about god completely assume people believe in Christianity. I for one, do not. Do I believe in God or Satan? maybe. But God created everything, doesnt that mean he created Satan himself? Therefore god also created evil. I mean how fucked up do you have to be to send your son down to die for a race that voluntarily gave up paradise? If there is a God and he made us in his own image, then much of our evil/deformities are part of God. Yet God is infallible... Yeah see why i dont do the religion thing? If you can explain something without assumptions, then it is objective. Religion/faith assumes a belief that not everyone will share so therefore it can not be an objective truth.[/quote]

[puttincomputers]

Are we still on the "discussion/argument = fighting" kick? Go to literally any other forum and you'll see that this is what they exist for.

Sorry this took me a couple days. Discussion/argument may not necessarily mean fighting, but often on this forum it seems to degrade ot that after a heated discussion. Very few people have the capability to realize that its nothing personal...

note the pronoun Your there putt: that doesnt make it objective truth, it makes it subjective. An objective truth for instance=The heart pumps blood to the body. Its been proven, it can be seen and explained using only facts and no assumptions.

your statements about god completely assume people believe in Christianity. I for one, do not. Do I believe in God or Satan? maybe. But God created everything, doesnt that mean he created Satan himself? Therefore god also created evil. I mean how fucked up do you have to be to send your son down to die for a race that voluntarily gave up paradise? If there is a God and he made us in his own image, then much of our evil/deformities are part of God. Yet God is infallible... Yeah see why i dont do the religion thing? If you can explain something without assumptions, then it is objective. Religion/faith assumes a belief that not everyone will share so therefore it can not be an objective truth.

[/quote]
first off its a debate
so you are stating that because i write "you are" or "your" that that is subjective?
so the statement that you provided would be subjective!
Hey i got news for ya God did create satan. satan was the first one to fall from heaven! the reason he fell is bacause the angles at one time had a choice as to what the would or would not do. 1/3 of the angels fell along with satan when they sided with him in his bid to become God! well since God is all powerfull and still cared for the most beutiful angel, which just happened to be satan he threw him out of heaven but did not destroy him. then God took the angels ability to choose away and then God became lonely because there was no one to love him because they wanted to and therefore he created the world and humans. Lo and behold since satan's only restriction was not to become all powerfull and he hated it he saw us as pefect fodder as way to get back at God. therefore he tempted eve and what do you know she fell to his seduction! little did satan know that God had a plan to combat this before satan even dreamed this up and sent his son to tempt satan into killing him. satan did so and guess what because of this our sins are forgiven, Satan has lost even more power.

[Oznogrd]

no, you're ignoring context on the use of "your". I was referring to Cy's post about it, he said your version of truth. It means you own it, and it may or may not be agreed with. That is a subjective truth. I said your statements about God because you made the statements, you own them, and stated them as truth. They only belong to you. Therefore it is subjective truth.

Also on the religion debate, i'm glad that the machine has successfully brainwashed you to have blind faith. If God is all powerful and all knowing; why did he allow Satan to fall? Why didn't he prevent it? Why would he "cast out" someone for making a "mistake" that he loved and could forgive? How selfish is the fact he took away an angel's ability to make their own choices then bitching that they dont love him anymore out of their free will? He did it to them. Maybe i've been reading too much Preacher, but god has an evil streak. He put a tree in paradise that would make it easy for satan to tempt them into trying the forbidden fruit. How stupid can you be? God has faults, remember not al faults are caused by Satan, Maybe Adam's left toe was a little bigger than the right. Maybe Eve was nt so much seduced as stupid, you cant know because you werent there. I understand there is a reason its called faith, but that is something in my SUBJECTIVE view of the world I am not capable of; and thats believing in which does not make sense.

(Dislaimer: am not saying being a christian is stupid, I say being a christian who ignores that fact that God in his omniscience seems to act like a moron are)

[cyanide]

so cyanide since you believe that my objective truth is not subjective truth and you believe that by subjective truth all things are true by that definition in and of itself you jhave no beef with me saying something is truth.
in essence i am saying since you believe that all subjective truth is true then my objective truth is true otherwise you are contradicting yourself when you say my truth is subjective truth and yet you try to kill my arguments and therefore declare your subjective truth as objective.

I don't have beef with you, and I'm not trying to kill your arguments. I'm just pointing out that you're confusing subjective and objective. Think of objective as a fact or agreed upon by society, as illini gave with his example. Subjective opinions relate to faith or belief that cannot be directly proven or agreed upon by society.

[benji]

An objective truth for instance=The heart pumps blood to the body. Its been proven, it can be seen and explained using only facts and no assumptions.

That is a theory. It is not absolute truth. Have you personally seen it absolutely proven with all alternative explanations disproven? Or are you basing what you believe on the words of others?

To claim the "heart pumps blood to the body" requires an endless set of assumptions. One example being, that what humans can experience and understand are the only things that exist.

Think of objective as ... agreed upon by society

There could be nothing less objective than submitting "truth" to the will of a majority.

[puttincomputers]

I don't have beef with you, and I'm not trying to kill your arguments. I'm just pointing out that you're confusing subjective and objective. Think of objective as a fact or agreed upon by society, as illini gave with his example. Subjective opinions relate to faith or belief that cannot be directly proven or agreed upon by society.

hmm what if i tell you i believe the statement you just made is subjective? one of us would have to be wrong then and as such neither argument would be objective. the argument that there is no God is subjective since there is no evidence that God does not exist therfore when one makes the a statement concerning the being of God then it is or is not true. there is no subjectivity about it. if it were subjective then neither of us would be wrong and we would have to state that since we cant agree then there may or may not be a God. with this logic i could also say you are decended from a rino and you could not defeat my argument since you think everything is subjective and therefore nothing can be disproven without calling someone a lier and then must come to objective truth in which case i could then state that since you and everyone besides me thinks you have no direct line from a rino then i could call that subjective, and you could not prove me wrong.
btw illini i was pointing out that under the old law if you committed a sin that by law you were to be killed, etc. And under the old law the government was to be run by the leaders of the faith. and by definition evil doers were no longer part of the faith