Oh Dear God

Ah, I see. I never realized that the mods had to go through that much to reach a decision. I think its quite a good idea, sort of like ranks in an army. With Jae and Matthew co-admins, only Andrew can question their actions. Since Andrew is the owner of this site, that makes sense. Then comes Jae and Matthew, the two guys below Andrew in power, who can question the actions of the forum-specific (made that word up, I think... ) mods, as can Andrew. That actually makes alot of sense.

^Will there ever be a thread where you don't hop in to post basically anything just for the hell of it?

To be completely honest I don't remember ever consulting one of the other mods about anything I did

I was actually asking a question. Seriously, I don't think I am a spammer at all (if I am, go ahead and tell me) and I really do think I contribute to these forums. You know what, I'm sick of hearing people going on about spammers and shit, as long as its not extreme spamming and they are contributing, why not? This forum needs all the discussion it can get.

Seriously, I don't think I am a spammer at all (if I am, go ahead and tell me)

Ok, there you go: You are a spammer.

http://www.nbaliveforums.com/sutra705239.php&highlight=#705239


http://www.nbaliveforums.com/sutra705913.php&highlight=#705913

http://www.nbaliveforums.com/sutra705894.php&highlight=#705894

Just a few examples, Couldn't be bothered wasting too much time on something like this here.

You know what, I'm sick of hearing people going on about spammers and shit, as long as its not extreme spamming and they are contributing, why not?

You know what, I'm not. It's annyoing as fuck, I hate it when I open a thread and have to scroll down for ages to skip all the worthless one liners untill I find something that's worth being read.

And I also don't think that spamming is ok as long as it's not extreme. I don't care if it's extreme or not, spam is spam and there is no ''as long as they are contributing''. How does someone contribute when he spams, even if it's not ''extreme spamming''?

This forum needs all the discussion it can get.

Holy shit, NO! I'd rather have no discussion at all than hundreds of threads full of moronic internet language, emoticons and one liners. Apart from that, you don't count spam as discussion, do you? Well, actually you just did. It doesn't even encourage discussions except for people complaining about the spam.

To be completely honest I don't remember ever consulting one of the other mods about anything I did

That's old news, but you did have in the back of your head that they'd probably discuss it or have opinions about it behind your back, right?

Ok, there you go: You are a spammer.

Yes, those three example had no real reason. I think most of my other posts do, but hey, that's my opinion.

You know what, I'm not. It's annyoing as fuck, I hate it when I open a thread and have to scroll down for ages to skip all the worthless one liners untill I find something that's worth being read.

And I also don't think that spamming is ok as long as it's not extreme. I don't care if it's extreme or not, spam is spam and there is no ''as long as they are contributing''. How does someone contribute when he spams, even if it's not ''extreme spamming''?

To be honest, "spam" was the wrong word. Spam in itself is wrong. What I meant was as long as someone isn't posting 20 times a day, if the majority of them are good posts, then it is good for the forum. People claim this forum is dead, however, it just lacks personality. When someone posts once a week, they don't really become an "icon" in the forum, which is exactly what it needs. Discussion and personality to create a good atmosphere.

Holy shit, NO! I'd rather have no discussion at all than hundreds of threads full of moronic internet language, emoticons and one liners. Apart from that, you don't count spam as discussion, do you? Well, actually you just did. It doesn't even encourage discussions except for people complaining about the spam.

I posted 3 stupid posts that I shouldn't have. Its 2:10AM, I have a bad sleeping problem and I'm bored as fuck on forum currently lacking everything but retards. I know it was wrong, and I would take those back if I could, but whats done is done. I honestly do believe I have contributed to these forums wether you like it or not. Spamming is for people who care about their post count more than the forum it self. I personally don't give a fuck about my post count. I wouldn't mind if it got put back to zero to be honest.

When I used to browse these forums and the main site a few years back, they looked very active, alot of personality. Now they seem dull.

I don't even play any of the new NBA Lives or regularly patch anymore, the reason I am here is because I like to have discussions with some of the great guys on here about everything from General Issues to the latest trade rumors. Guys like Indy, Cyanide, Jackal, Jae, Matthew, Shadowgrin, Nick and of course Andrew make this a fun place to have a good debate about pretty much anything.

But hey, if King Dramacydal wants me gone, then so be it. I will stop posting if you really want me too, hell, the realgm boards seem like alot of fun, I may sign up there and enjoy some real discussion.

I posted 3 stupid posts that I shouldn't have. Its 2:10AM, I have a bad sleeping problem and I'm bored as fuck on forum currently lacking everything but retards. I know it was wrong, and I would take those back if I could, but whats done is done.

First off, it took me like half a minute to come up with those three examples. As I already said I coulnd't be bothered wasting too much time on this arguement but I'm pretty sure if I do a search I'll find more examples.

Secondly, there's no need to mention excuses. This is the internet, you can do whatever you want to do (as long as the mods and admins let you) so there's absolutely no need to justify your actions. I'm not a mod so I can't do anything about it except complain. You should be man enough to be able to live with that.

I personally don't give a fuck about my post count. I wouldn't mind if it got put back to zero to be honest.

Good to hear that.

But hey, if King Dramacydal wants me gone, then so be it. I will stop posting if you really want me too, hell, the realgm boards seem like alot of fun, I may sign up there and enjoy some real discussion.

This is so lame. Do I even need to comment on that? Are you seriously considering leaving because I called you a spammer? That's ridiculous, not that I'd mind to see you leave, actually I don't give a flying fuck. But what are you trying to achieve with that? I don't think there are too many guys around here that'd miss you so there won't be all those "No , please don't leave" posts that you probably wait for and people getting mad at me because I made you leave or something.

:lol: This is so lame. Do I even need to comment on that? Are you seriously considering leaving because I called you a spammer? That's ridiculous, not that I'd mind to see you leave, actually I don't give a flying fuck. But what are you trying to achieve with that? I don't think there are too many guys around here that'd miss you so there won't be all those "No , please don't leave" posts that you probably wait for and people getting mad at me because I made you leave or something.

The point I was trying to get across was that everyone goes on about there being no discussion, that the forum is dead. I tried my part to make the forum a little more active by posting my own views and comments, but obviously that doesn't matter, because if you post too much then thats wrong.

As for the "No, please don't leave comment", I'm not CoolMac. I'm not Dweaver. I don't want to make a little thread to hear what people think about me then just return with an alternate account.

Honestly, one of the reasons why this place is so fucked up is because there are so many fucking Nazis. So what I made 3 stupid posts, I admit it, it was a bonehead thing to do and I'm sorry for that. But no, thats not enough.

I really want to know what caused you to get your panties in a bunch all of a sudden. I made a completely valid post in this topic then you go completely off topic which causes a mini discussion about me. Why was that?

Flite, those posts were barely anything to worry about.

What the fuck are you on about Dramacydal? A forum member can't speak their mind? It's funny that you used a one liner to bring up your gripe about Flite's one-liners.

Besides, as far as i can tell, flite was a lot more on topic than you. Why bother bringing up nit-picky crap in a thread like this? Moron.

Anyway, Ty-land, i'm sorry if i offended you. There was no hidden agenda to "bring you down" or whatever it was you thought, but rather speaking my mind on how it looked to me. Keyboard dioreha.

Still, considering i had no idea who you were until recent times, i still find this "passion" for the community you speak of laughable.

[[Q]]

Secondly, the new guys should be given sections related to the Live stuff. They have the ability to be polite and that's what newcomers (mostly noobs in those sections anyways) need. General Talk forums should be left to other people like Jae, Matthew, Indy and maybe Cyanide. AG will remain unmoved ofcourse. Fgrep can be removed aswell, he's never around.

I'm not saying that the new guys shouldn't be given a chance, I'm saying let them actually see how it's done by two of the best people that did the job.

Thing is, in General Talks etc, that's where the real personality of this forum hangs out, I don't know a single person in those Live sections, it's basically guys with 20-30 posts and you never see them again. General Talk is like a different forum, there you need different leadership. Thing that tends to annoy the shit out of me about Andrew (and to a lesser extent, the newly appointed moderators), they are neither here, nor there. Most of the cases everyone just seems to be in between trying to maintain forum peace.

Which is why I like Jae & Matthew so much, it'd be absurd to say we haven't butted heads in the past, but they've put me in my place when that's needed. That's what they do, they don't endlessly discuss something and try to reach a stalemate with you. That keeps you on your toes, not the constant in-between-ness.

Like Nick said, Jae's not going to have a computer, so it won't work out too well with him as an admin.

as far as the whole scenario with the "new mods" in the Live forum and the "old mods" in general talk, the whole thing makes sense, but if Jae & Matthew are going to stay retired, then what more would the "new mods" have to do to do a better job in moderating the General Forum? I mean, this in-between-ness you mention makes it seem like we're not even going into the general forum. My philosophy on it is that it's a place to discuss all things not Live-related, so moderators should let people discuss, as long as they follow the forum rules.
We have been making sure nothing gets out of hand in that forum... but do you think the mods should be making interesting topics or what? should the mods be flaming and insulting more posters? should the mods be spamming/posting more in the general talk? should they completely dominate the forums so that everyone will fear them? should they be trying to cut down on dicussing and "try to reach stalemates"?

I don't know what you expect out of the new moderators, who have been doing what they were brought on to do, which is "maintain the peace" to use your words. would you have us not maintain the peace and allow people to be at each other's throats and flaming each other? could you elaborate more on this?

I'm saying let them actually see how it's done by two of the best people that did the job.

well, we have been here the last few years with Jae & Matthew at the helm, so it's not like we just got here... They've done a good job, and we all know and have felt the effects of their influence on this forum.

I know you're trying to help, but it seems like you're offering unrealistic scenarios with Jae not having a computer and all that...
so if you want to help, I would just like to know what you think the moderators of the general forum should be doing, and how it should be handled differently than the Live forums.

edit: this came up while I was posting....
Dramacydal, you really didn't need to come up with that "nit-picky" (Nick said it best) crap... I don't think you would appreciate it if Flite found 2 or 3 posts of yours that were worthless one-liners. If you seriously didn't want to waste your time, then why did you bring it up??

Last edited by [Q] on Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Honestly, one of the reasons why this place is so fucked up is because there are so many fucking Nazis. So what I made 3 stupid posts, I admit it, it was a bonehead thing to do and I'm sorry for that. But no, thats not enough.

Dude, you gotta read before replying to a post, goddamn. Just read my previous post again and then come back to edit your post or something. I said there are probably more worthless posts from you, I just didn't feel like tracing back your posting history to find every freaking example. So when you say you only had 3 bad posts you're bullshitting yourself and everyone else.

And again, no need for apologies, you don't need to justify your actions here.

By the way, you aren't really callig me a Nazi, are you?

I really want to know what caused you to get your panties in a bunch all of a sudden. I made a completely valid post in this topic then you go completely off topic which causes a mini discussion about me. Why was that?

To be honest, you've been getting on my nerves for quite some time now. It's simply annoying to see you post in almost every fucking thread, even when you couldn't add anything to the discussion at all.


By the way, Nick, who asked you to get involved? If you got nothing else to do, why don't you go play in the traffic?

Dude, you gotta read before replying to a post, goddamn. Just read my previous post again and then come back to edit your post or something. I said there are probably more worthless posts from you, I just didn't feel like tracing back your posting history to find every freaking example. So when you say you only had 3 bad posts you're bullshitting yourself and everyone else.

I didn't mean ever. I was speaking specifically about this occasion.

And yes I'm calling you a Nazi, why would you do the exact same thing your complaining about to get your point across?. You over-reacted. You nit-picked. You acted like a Nazi.

To be honest, you've been getting on my nerves for quite some time now. It's simply annoying to see you post in almost every fucking thread, even when you couldn't add anything to the discussion at all.

Oh please. I will post wherever the fuck I want, as long as its a valid point. I have had some real good debates and discussion not just about the NBA, but about life in general on this forum. I have also made mistakes, like the 3 I made tonight that caused you to have your period. Grow up, be a man and let it slide. I'm sure I will get the hang of forum etiquette over time. You don't have to read my posts, even if I personally think I'm adding to the discussion at hand.

By the way, Nick, who asked you to get involved? If you got nothing else to do, why don't you go play in the traffic?

Hey dickhead, it's a public fucking forum, i'll get involved in whatever i want.

More imortantly, who asked you start monitoring who's a good poster and who's not? You seem to be following flite's posts closely enough, and not realising that your own posts aren't any better.

^And your the one to judge all that, therefor it's all good. I could care less.

It's annyoing as fuck, I hate it when I open a thread and have to scroll down for ages to skip all the worthless one liners untill I find something that's worth being read.

Imagine how many nit-picking fuckwits like you would skip past that last one.

You can't be that dumb to think you could use this quote to point out some type of contradiction or whatever. It's just ridiculous to tear a quote out of it's context and use it like that.


By the way, Flite, you're mentally challenged. Get a history book and find out what Nazis really are you dumb fuck.

To be honest, I don't see anything too out of hand. Sometimes the "lack of quality posting" problem seems to be overdramatized.

By the way, Flite, you're mentally challenged. Get a history book and find out what Nazis really are you dumb fuck.

Mentally challenged?

People talk about "Grammar Nazis", posters who nit pick at peoples posts talking about how they spelled this word or that word wrong. I was using Nazi in that context, not speaking of an actual Nazi. Nit-picking at my posts is exactly what you did. I bet you didn't even open those threads that my 3 posts you were using as examples were posted in, therefore it didn't effect you.

Honestly, I have no idea what I ever did to you. I made a few mistakes but so does everyone else. As I said earlier, let it slide, let people learn from their mistakes and become better posters from that.

The only time I have ever been in contact with you was when I made this comment in the Rap thread:

Anyone been listening to Red Bandana by Game? I can't stop listening to it, its definately one of my favorite songs at the moment. I wonder... Would any rock fans like it? It has a rock feel to it, but maybe thats just me because I never listen to rock and the beat seems different to the usual rap beat. Anyways, good song

Which you replied by saying:

I'll have a wild guess and say NO! Why would any rock fan like some rap song that most rap fans don't even like?

So yeah, both times you have ever "spoke" to/about me, you have snapped. Calm the fuck down, no one is forcing you to read my posts.

I really, really don't understand you.

Flite_23, Dramacydal -- shut the fuck up. Seriously. The next one of you who posts in this thread that doesn't pertain to its original intention, will no longer have to worry about the other because you'll be gone. There's a useful conversation going on here, and I'm actually enjoying reading it thus far -- even the shots at myself. I don't even want to see an apology post. Either post on the topic being discussed, or go get a room together and work out your differences in private. Nobody wants to read your bullshit.

Flite_23, Dramacydal -- shut the fuck up. Seriously. The next one of you who posts in this thread that doesn't pertain to its original intention, will no longer have to worry about the other because you'll be gone. There's a useful conversation going on here, and I'm actually enjoying reading it thus far -- even the shots at myself. I don't even want to see an apology post. Either post on the topic being discussed, or go get a room together and work out your differences in private. Nobody wants to read your bullshit.

Amen. Moving on- to the original topic.

We have been making sure nothing gets out of hand in that forum... but do you think the mods should be making interesting topics or what? should the mods be flaming and insulting more posters? should the mods be spamming/posting more in the general talk? should they completely dominate the forums so that everyone will fear them? should they be trying to cut down on dicussing and "try to reach stalemates"?

Great questions. From what I've seen around the forums, there weren't really any chaos. People commented that Zoom contributed, and two other guys that were banned but flew under the radar because they weren't causing chaos. There's nothing wrong with the forums. It just seems the lack of leadership relates to indecisiveness of banning and that banning should be done based on good judgment. If that's the case, I don't see why this should be made public.

I don't know what you expect out of the new moderators, who have been doing what they were brought on to do, which is "maintain the peace" to use your words. would you have us not maintain the peace and allow people to be at each other's throats and flaming each other? could you elaborate more on this?

I think we were following the moderator rules quite well. Here's two in particular that should be noted.

Locking topics and punishing members should be a last resort. Encourage members to follow the rules and delete offending posts if necessary. Always try to salvage a discussion rather than putting an end to it.

Explain the rules and the reason for enforcing them, and encourage them to explain their position on issues of conflict. Troublemakers may have to be reported to the admin if they are frequently causing problems in the forum.

I know I keep bringing up Sit/Dweaver/CoolMac, but because they're the ones that led to this whole leadership issue thing, seriously, when they were flying under the radar, were they "frequently causing problems in the forum?" The reason they went by undetected was because to them, banning means permanent, and they want redemption and made up for it by not going back to their old posting ways that ticked off other members. The reason why we were able to catch other people who were banned and came back was because they didn't change their ways. What makes Andrew a great admin is that he gives second chances, is fair in his judgment, and doesn't use personal vendetta to ban members. That's the example I'm following. When I said Dweaver shouldn't be banned, does that make me an inept leader? Am I not allowed to say that? If I know Andrew gives second chances to people that are willing to change their old ways, then is saying something wrong? I'm using my good judgment here that I feel would benefit the forums, but in the end, Andrew has the say, and I have to respect that.

Final note:

To be honest, I don't see anything too out of hand.

Cyanide, I have a question. When you guys do the IP check, is it done individually or can you select many members to check the IPs of at one time? If it's the latter, do the mods regularly do mass IP checks to make sure no one has gone ahead and made alternate accounts to bypass the ban?

I simply can't understand why guys like CoolMac (assuming) and Dweaver not to mention countless other pre-banned members can just "sign up again" and bypass the whole thing. Banning seems almost useless if it is that easy.

We have been making sure nothing gets out of hand in that forum... but do you think the mods should be making interesting topics or what? should the mods be flaming and insulting more posters? should the mods be spamming/posting more in the general talk? should they completely dominate the forums so that everyone will fear them? should they be trying to cut down on dicussing and "try to reach stalemates"?

Great questions. From what I've seen around the forums, there weren't really any chaos. People commented that Zoom contributed, and two other guys that were banned but flew under the radar because they weren't causing chaos. There's nothing wrong with the forums. It just seems the lack of leadership relates to indecisiveness of banning and that banning should be done based on good judgment. If that's the case, I don't see why this should be made public.

I don't know what you expect out of the new moderators, who have been doing what they were brought on to do, which is "maintain the peace" to use your words. would you have us not maintain the peace and allow people to be at each other's throats and flaming each other? could you elaborate more on this?

I think we were following the moderator rules quite well. Here's two in particular that should be noted.

Locking topics and punishing members should be a last resort. Encourage members to follow the rules and delete offending posts if necessary. Always try to salvage a discussion rather than putting an end to it.

Explain the rules and the reason for enforcing them, and encourage them to explain their position on issues of conflict. Troublemakers may have to be reported to the admin if they are frequently causing problems in the forum.

I know I keep bringing up Sit/Dweaver/CoolMac, but because they're the ones that led to this whole leadership issue thing, seriously, when they were flying under the radar, were they "frequently causing problems in the forum?" The reason they went by undetected was because to them, banning means permanent, and they want redemption and made up for it by not going back to their old posting ways that ticked off other members. The reason why we were able to catch other people who were banned and came back was because they didn't change their ways. What makes Andrew a great admin is that he gives second chances, is fair in his judgment, and doesn't use personal vendetta to ban members. That's the example I'm following. When I said Dweaver shouldn't be banned, does that make me an inept leader? Am I not allowed to say that? If I know Andrew gives second chances to people that are willing to change their old ways, then is saying something wrong? I'm using my good judgment here that I feel would benefit the forums, but in the end, Andrew has the say, and I have to respect that.

Final note:

To be honest, I don't see anything too out of hand.

First off I need to have my say on the situation. The banning of the new poster MacGyver is wrong. I know Coolmac (Paul) personally. He has not been into Nlsc message boards since after a few weeks from his banning. Paul sometimes asks in his forums and mails about the recent news from Nba Live Series. I know he take it hard from the start the way he was maltreated here and the injustice he felt, he told me quiet a few of them personally since we are online-gaming buddies. Once he told me he will comeback and explain once again why he did the things he was blamed for, but after someone told him how that Andrew guy felt like it was a slap in his face for trusting Coolmac, he then decided to let go and told me he won’t bother to visit these boards again. May be as a sign of respect for the administrators here.

That explains my theory on why banning someone with allegedly same posting style as Coolmac is wrong. I don’t even know why you degrade Paul so low here as if he is a mere cancer of some sorts. Outside the worldwide web he is a genuine person, an exact opposite of the childish and randomlessness he exhibits on the message boards. Have you ever ask yourselves to the extent if Paul did something bad to you? That you will just treat him like a low life? Or even make him a measurement of how similarity of post from another complete stranger will lead to the demised of that said poster? It is to me just like saying “he talks funny, so he must be in the hood or something.” That is just unfair for both of the poster and the guy being gauge with. Even so now that it is admitted that it is just based on pure “assumptions” and band wagonned theory.

Flame me if you will. Tell me I can go find a room and fuck myself with Coolmac, damn even bring in that MacGyver guy, as if I even care enough. But remember this, have Paul do you wrong in the past? He is a good friend and pal to have, in and out of the forums. Just like you and the other guys you tend to be playing majority with, even though you may have never seen them in real life or even smelt there presence in whole existence.

This came from a friend of a guy who most of you here thinks is a cancer. I am sorry for my bad English, as it is not my mother tongue.

Like Nick said, Jae's not going to have a computer, so it won't work out too well with him as an admin.

Jae won't be without a computer forever. Even Black Death who's so piss poor (not a knock, been there, done that) has a PC. Point is, eventually he'll have a PC.

as far as the whole scenario with the "new mods" in the Live forum and the "old mods" in general talk, the whole thing makes sense, but if Jae & Matthew are going to stay retired

Atleast you acknowledge it isn't a bad idea entirely, I'm fairly certain both guys would be willing to return with enough begging. End of the day, they love this place to death, which is why this thread was made in the first place.

then what more would the "new mods" have to do to do a better job in moderating the General Forum?

You aren't doing anything wrong, but when you could have Jae & Matthew handling those sections, why not? This way you won't have to ask the question of "what more" could we be doing. There isn't a thing you could be doing more, people just look and react differently to Matthew & Jae opposed to the newly appointed mods. Don't be mistaken, I don't fear J&M, I just respect them more than I do you guys. Most of you know I respect you guys aswell, but not on the same level of J&M, so basically there isn't much more you could do. I'm not saying it'd be the end of the world if you guys just kept moderating and J&M never returned, but me personally, I don't think I'll ever be able to look at some of you guys the way I look at J&M. That's just that.

On another note, the point Jae brings up in his post is something to actually stand still by, you guys are a bunch of random folks who don't seem to be on the same waivelength with eachother. So yeah, a suggestion (suggestion!!) would be to work that out amongst yourselves. If you say there isn't a problem or anything, alright, I take back this paragraph.

I mean, this in-between-ness you mention makes it seem like we're not even going into the general forum. My philosophy on it is that it's a place to discuss all things not Live-related, so moderators should let people discuss, as long as they follow the forum rules.

That isn't what I meant with my in between comment. That was more directed towards the Dweaver/Coolmac/Sit and JJones part of the whole thing. By in between I meant you weren't on this side, nor on that. You know Dweaver/Coolmac/Sit are bad, but you don't want to do anything about it. You'd rather discuss it. Fuck that, grow some balls and ban them fuckers. I'll get back to this while responding to Cy's post.

We have been making sure nothing gets out of hand in that forum... but do you think the mods should be making interesting topics or what?

Nothing gets out of hand? Dude, Sit racked up 1000+ posts in a month. The technicality of his previous account not being "banned" is cute as an excuse, but the point of the action that was taken against him (was that he not post) and he kept posting. If that's your definition of keeping this place running, ie letting banned members rack up 1000+ posts, then yeah, splendid job indeed.

Making interesting topics doesn't really result in anything, the best threads have come spontaneously, not forcefully.

should the mods be flaming and insulting more posters? should the mods be spamming/posting more in the general talk? should they completely dominate the forums so that everyone will fear them? should they be trying to cut down on dicussing and "try to reach stalemates"?

I'm not certain if you're trying to give options or taking potshots at Jae & Matthew. If it's the latter part, you've certainly misunderstood the impact these fella's have made. Discussing further would be pointless but since I don't think you're that bad of a guy, let's continue this fruitful conversation.

I don't know what you expect out of the new moderators, who have been doing what they were brought on to do, which is "maintain the peace" to use your words. would you have us not maintain the peace and allow people to be at each other's throats and flaming each other? could you elaborate more on this?

If you did do that, I would've left this comment alone. I'm just going to say one thing and then I'll leave it alone. Sit + Zoom. Had it not been leaked, he would've kept on posting. One of the things you're brought on to do is make sure people who have been banned do not return to the forums. I've gathered that the course of action against Sit was being discussed behind the scenes, in every other case, that's the way to go, in this case, whoever found out should've immediately banned him. Same goes for Dweaver, this is where it shows that you don't really know what you're doing. This goes to show you don't really have the balls most people are looking for. Make a decision and stand by it. Don't discuss it, not in such an open and shut case atleast. Shit, in this case you even had one of your own advocating for one of them. I can't comprehend why the lot of you can't see where I'm coming from on this. You guys just don't see anything wrong with Sit being allowed to stick around as long as he did. Nothing at all.

Most of the time you guys resort to the "he's gone now, isn't he?" type of post, fuck that, he should've been gone way before that, no one addresses this. When we keep stressing on it, you guys fall back on the "he wasn't really ever banned", that's a bloody techinicality, you know the point of his punishment was that he isn't supposed to post. Explaining this or trying to make you guys see it the way I see it is getting old, fast!

well, we have been here the last few years with Jae & Matthew at the helm, so it's not like we just got here... They've done a good job, and we all know and have felt the effects of their influence on this forum.

You seem to be misunderstanding my posts, or are you choosing to make it look like I'm trying to insult you? I'm not implying you guys haven't been around, I'm saying you haven't been around as a MODERATOR to see how these two work. You've been around, but as posters, not fellow moderators.

I know you're trying to help, but it seems like you're offering unrealistic scenarios with Jae not having a computer and all that...

Regarding Jae, read above. What about Matthew? How come you don't address him in your post? He's not without a PC, so it's quite a realistic scenario he be given administrator status, no?

People commented that Zoom contributed, and two other guys that were banned but flew under the radar because they weren't causing chaos.

Jesus. Fucking. Christ. They were banned. That means no more coming back. What do I have to say to make it get through that fuckin skull of yours? You guys left Coolmac as long as he was around just by saying he's got a different IP and he's not causing chaos. Jeez...

There's nothing wrong with the forums.

Indeed, just with you, you're the only one that's been actually advocating the stay of those three faggots. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised Arvin is back at posting if it were left up to you.

What makes Andrew a great admin is that he gives second chances, is fair in his judgment, and doesn't use personal vendetta to ban members. That's the example I'm following.

Which is exactly why I'm still posting. We need an opposite, not another Andrew. Look at J&M, they were the opposite of everything Andrew is. I picked up on the fact you guys want to be more like Andrew, which is why I suggested everyone just go be polite to the noobs in the live section, positive public relations and what not. The balance isn't there.

I also find it quite insulting that you'd say something like they only made decisions based on their personal vendetta's and were unfair in their decisions. Matthew may be hot headed, I'll give you that, but as much as he's done for the place, I think it would be clear that whatever course of action he takes, it's by thinking that it'll be better for the NLSC. I can't say the same for you, you are willing to keep Dweaver because you think he's an excellent poster, if he was that excellent, a lot of people would've advocated his stay when he was just banned. Dweaver isn't an asset to the forums, as much as you may believe it yourself, he isn't. He was an educated spammer who was too full of himself to bother with anyone else. If that causes you to grow a big rubbery one, dandy.

I'm using my good judgment here that I feel would benefit the forums, but in the end, Andrew has the say, and I have to respect that.

It might as well be said now given it's on my mind and I'm not one to beat around the bush, Andrew isn't perfect. Andrew knows it and we all know it. This isn't a knock on him, more of an observation. I don't see the harm in having J&M as co-admins, it'll only lighten the decision making burden, right? But as long as I've known Andrew, he's managed to diplomatically say he doesn't want to share power, the final say should go to him.