What is "God" ?

[Axel]

No no no, that's not what I meant at all. For example, drinking alcohol os forbidden in Islam (sounds crazy, eh?). Now alcohol isn't necessarily a bad thing, not at all, and most drinkers are good people, I'm sure. But it does increase someone's chances of acting irrationally. It's really a personal preference

The Southern Baptist Convention is against drinking of alcohol as well. Not all Christians drink.

[Colin]

Alright, so something that in Christianity is more of a guideline/suggestion, is a strict rule in Islam, and this works better for you personally. Gotcha. The alcohol thing actually doesn't sound that crazy to me as there's lots of examples of the same kind of thing in the first 5 books of the bible. All the commandments on not eating certain animals, etc. were not probably not done because there's something inherently wrong with these animals, but because while wandering through a desert for 40 years it's pretty hard to safely eat some of this stuff. Making rules for the people's protection.

And thanks for the info on Jesus in Islam. I was unaware of that.

[magius]

anything worth anything when it comes to humanity as a collective or a society has been built at the consequence of others. In that respect christianity is no different than, say, democracy. Whether Christianity existed or not there would be always social structures in place to define what makes a good person good. Ever heard of the legal system.

That said, I do believe in God, but not in any religion. I respect those who do though, because quite simply life is a lot easier with something to believe in.

I often wondered if perhaps all the bible and the koran were were fictional novels... not unlike the lord of the rings. And they got really popular, and people forgot what was what... not a difficult thing considering things travelled only by word of mouth back then (remember the old game, whisper , say, "cat" into someones ear, pass it down ten people in the same way, and the last person will say "dog"). perhaps in two thousand years people will be worshipping frodo. "thou shall not shave your legs!"

[Pera]

Well I am a Christian for as long as I remember.

So I do believe in God and I go to church every Sunday.And I think if your are raised by a Christian family then you will believe in God,others who weren't so fortunate wont believe in God.I'm not saying I have something against those who don't believe or don't want to believe . Everybody can believe in something, I believe in God.Also me and my family have been through a lot and I think that God had something in mind for us to overcome does problems like we did.

Maybe I just want to believe in something and chose God,because of the things that I overcome.Maybe not, I guess I'll see after death.

[Blasphemy]

I dunno, I used to belieave in god and stuff but now lately I dont. Its just weird that we have all this science stuff and no one can tell if we have a heaven or someone up there. Probably Jesus was just some person who did some stuff and someone wrote the book about him known as the bible. And then they turned it into a religion. But it is kinda cool for people to be able to ask someone for help that they think will help when no one else will.

[bigh0rt]

god is that little bit of hot chocolate left in the bottom of your cup...

or an excuse to make topics that have been done to death on every single forum on the internet, one or the other...

It's funny that replies like this one have their own discussion going on, as to why they are useless, bad for the forum as a whole, and wondering why jackasses continue to post them...

... anyway, carry on...

Im not allowed to like the bit of chocolate left over? Its always the best bit! But its just so dam hard to get out...
I dont believe in god as a 'spiritual thing' ... so why the hell cant I make it my own 'real thing'?

Dont you find it ironic that whilst abusing me, youre doing the exact same thing that your abusing me for? ON YA

or an excuse to make topics that have been done to death on every single forum on the internet, one or the other...

This was the quote in question. If God is hot chocolate to you, then God bless. Especially considering that the bolded goes against this other quote from you...

Which brings us back to there being a lack of interesting topics... If the topics were interesting, then people would be more motivated to read them.

I dont see why people just dont start topics that interest them... If youre intersted in something, all you have to do is post about and theres a dam good chance someone else will be as well, thus a discussion is created

in this thread.

Either way, this thread has since gotten back on topic, so I'll leave it there.

[MacGuyver]

http://www.nbaliveforums.com/ftopic21289.php&highlight=

they did talk about God here many times in that thread

[Crash_Bandicoot]

there's one thing I'm confused about; if God truly doesn't care what religion you believe in, why do I follow Islam?

allah cares, so you gotta be a muslim or you gonna burn in hell. and you can't have christian or jewish friends.

51. O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust. (Al-Máída)

[BIG GREEN]

I'm someone who grew up somewhat of a christian but my faith as dwindled alot in the past 4 years.

Science can only explain so much...cause if you believe in it...then what caused the bing bang..and what was there before it? There is a God..and he's the creater of reality..whether or not he's a thinking entity is inconsequencial. The fact it..without that creator of reality..there would be no existance.

[cyanide]

I'm against religion, but I'm not against faith. It may seem contradictory, but I believe that people should be free to form their own set of beliefs that works for them in their own lives rather than allow a religion to dictate their lives.

Whether it be one god or many, it shouldn't become an obsession or something to control your own life. I believe there is a God, a Creator, a ground of all being, but I'm not going to believe that this God will control every aspect of my life. What I am given in my life and the surrounding that I am given has been created, but it's ultimately up to myself to make choices in my life and to make the best of my abilities to guide me in life.

I'm not going to follow a religious code or set of moral beliefs created by man, but rather to use moral guidance as a source of wisdom and previous experience to reveal a 'truth.' I believe each and every one of us has a moral conscience and should act upon our moral conscience. Not everybody's moral conscience is the same because morality is subjective, dependant on culture, language, and environment.

That is, imo, a spiritual path that everyone should take, regardless of what his/her religion is.

[Bang]

I forgot who, but some mathematician was asked by the Queen to find proof that God existed. He then answered "e^(i(pi))+1 = 0".
(we don't even know all the digits of e or pi, yet this equation holds! Not to mention i is an imaginary number!)

[Oznogrd]

cyanide....you hit the nail on the head. Once again i still dont have time for a detailed explanation of my beliefs...but everything you said about religion versus faith and its role in your life is nothing short of what i see a perfect world acting like. however with fundamentalists believing nothing is a metaphor...but the direct word of god "in the beginning there was nothing and then god said let there be light...couldnt that be a metaphor for the big bang 'no god just went click'"-Robin Williams....and until that ends, i refuse to believe in a "religion" per se....the point being cyanide, thank you for affirming the fact there are still sane people who can discuss religion/faith intelligently without getting offended..i'm from the bible belt originally and that doesnt fucking happen "what do you mean you dont believe in jesus?"


EDIT: I just the islam/chrisanity discussion...here's how it works to my understanding, if anyone has proof i'm incorrect on this lets discuss but i dont think there is. Judaism/Christianity/Islam all teach the same basic principles, there is one true god who will help us out if we need, but you gotta do good things (hence the cliche god helps those who help themselves)...and honestly Chrisitianity are simply continuations of the already established Judaism. Judaism simply just stops and believes the Messiah has yet to come. Christians of course believe the messiah was Jesus Christ. Muslims believe (once again correct me if i'm wrong) that although jesus was a great man and a prophet, mohammed was the messiah. They all teach the idea of the 10 commandments (although i'm of george carlins persuasion we could boil it down to 3) and basically, be nice, dont kill each other, and shit will work out in the end...but the whole reason i went into all this...for my own clarification and because i saw someone saying something incorrect...doesnt the muslim god send you to hell for your sins, but after being in hell for awhile you've atoned for them, you get into heaven? kinda like a jail sentence on your path to heaven? I beg you people who truly havent researched other religions to hush. Crash, i hate to call you out to but let me explain. If you read the Christian bible, if you have non christian friends and dont try to convert them to your way, you're going to hell. Dont single out something for islam thats in christianity's literal translations too....Once again i think i agree with cy, this stuff was never meant to be taken as control or obsessions of our lives, but guidelines for when we need a little bit help on our decision to making to give us an idea of morals

[Crash_Bandicoot]

basically, be nice, dont kill each other, and shit will work out in the end...

You're wrong. I dont know much about christianity or judaism, but in islam you must believe in Allah to go heaven. No matter how good you had been, if you're not a believer, you're going hell. And if you believe in Allah, you go to heaven even if you're a murderer or a thief...

[Jackal]

And if you believe in Allah, you go to heaven even if you're a murderer or a thief...

Wow, I must convert right now.

[Joe']

then what caused the bing bang..and what was there before it? There is a God..and he's the creater of reality..whether or not he's a thinking entity is inconsequencial. The fact it..without that creator of reality..there would be no existance.

I totally agree with you... When you hear stuff about black holes, galaxies distant millions and millions of light-years, different universes, the big bang, the evolution of the solar system, etc. you come to understand that the most logic explanation on "why do we exist/why does life exist" is that a superior being created it all. For me, that superior being is God.
But I also think God isn't something or someone concretely. God is inside of us all: we decide if we want to hear him (or not) every time we make a decision.
That is what God represents to me, but everyone's absolutely free to believe everything they want. This is also one of the reasons I don't believe in the Church: the Church forces people to believe what they consider to be a book written by God (the Bible), but actually is written by other people, not God.

[Oznogrd]

Crash, you didnt catch my point...the christian/jewish god is the same single solitary god as allah...who cares if he's by a different name? he's not going to send people to hell for calling him bob if his name is steve...

EDIT some islamic beliefs i found that sound eerily similar to christianity and judaism... crash ,if you really wanna prove me wrong lets bust out that koran


Islamic beliefs:
* God created the world and all that is in it.

* God established in His revealed word the principles by which to live, including concern for the poor.

* One shouldn't worship other gods, or money, or power, or oneself.

* At the end of time, God will judge all people.

* If a person had fulfilled the divine command, he or she will go to heaven.

[Dro]

basically, be nice, dont kill each other, and shit will work out in the end...

You're wrong. I dont know much about christianity or judaism, but in islam you must believe in Allah to go heaven. No matter how good you had been, if you're not a believer, you're going hell. And if you believe in Allah, you go to heaven even if you're a murderer or a thief...

You don't know much about christianity, judaism or islam. Your ignorance and one-sidedness is unbelievable to the point where it is almost humorous. It's quite apparent that you have some vendetta against Islam. Unfortunately, one necessary element of dialogue is that both parties have to have an open mind. It's difficult to discuss deep thoughts with an ignoramus.


"however with fundamentalists believing nothing is a metaphor...but the direct word of god "in the beginning there was nothing and then god said let there be light...couldnt that be a metaphor for the big bang 'no god just went click'"-Robin Williams....and until that ends, i refuse to believe in a "religion" per se....the point being cyanide, thank you for affirming the fact there are still sane people who can discuss religion/faith intelligently without getting offended.."

Exactly...people need to realize that the Bible, Torah, Quran, etc. are essentially just life lessons. The contents are supposed to be taken metaphorically, not literally, and learned from through discussion and dialogue. It's the wackos that take the word literally that fuck up the world.

[Dro]

* At the end of time, God will judge all people.

* If a person had fulfilled the divine command, he or she will go to heaven.

The key word is ***all*** people. It does not say Muslims, and it does not say everybody else will go to hell.

[Cable]

This is also one of the reasons I don't believe in the Church: the Church forces people to believe what they consider to be a book written by God (the Bible), but actually is written by other people, not God.

And from my catholic classes I can tell you ... Christians believe that the Bible was written by people who were 'inspired' by God. Basically they wrote down what God told them.

[cyanide]

cyanide....you hit the nail on the head. Once again i still dont have time for a detailed explanation of my beliefs...but everything you said about religion versus faith and its role in your life is nothing short of what i see a perfect world acting like. however with fundamentalists believing nothing is a metaphor...but the direct word of god "in the beginning there was nothing and then god said let there be light...couldnt that be a metaphor for the big bang 'no god just went click'"-Robin Williams....and until that ends, i refuse to believe in a "religion" per se....the point being cyanide, thank you for affirming the fact there are still sane people who can discuss religion/faith intelligently without getting offended..i'm from the bible belt originally and that doesnt fucking happen "what do you mean you dont believe in jesus?"

I'm glad somebody read what I had to say

My spiritual journey was actually a long and inspired one. I actually went from morally decent but ignorant to extreme fundamentalist Catholic for a few months before going to liberal Christian. I don't like to use labels, but that's the simplest picture to paint my evolving views and beliefs. I read a lot of contemporary Christian books from the left and the right, and took a lot of 'truths' that I can definitely keep and use in my life. I truly believe there's no better way of discovering a truth than to find it in a metaphor. Nowadays, I see Jesus Christ as a 'savior' in the metaphorical sense as somebody to look up to as a teacher and to learn from to lead a fulfilling life, but by no means a requisite to worship and to acknowledge as the "Son of God," "If you don't believe in Him, you will go to hell," etc. If one reads the Bible and Jesus' teachings, he is a remarkable, wise and intelligent man, but I really can't put him in the same level as God if we as humans can't even grasp or comprehend what God is.

Those are my further thoughts, and my spiritual path is always changing, but over time I feel more secure and firm with my beliefs, and it is ironically becoming more simplified. Feel free to PM me for further discussion, illini.

[Oznogrd]

exactly cable, according to their belief...but thats a pretty big 'suspension of disbelief' for some people to believe in the bible...its one thing that contributed to my disbelief in it being a literal story...my dads a southern baptist so i know all about taking it literally....cyanide, i'll PM ya sometimes and write up my beliefs personally and where they come from sometime soon...i'm currently in a week from hell to school (an exam in every class and a shit load of assignments)

[Cable]

Yeah, I get what you mean, I see it too, but how else are we to have any kind of fact/story/belief about God if we don't believe what at least some people say? Say you don't believe that the Bible is the 'truth'. What do you believe then?

The way I see it, religion is all about believing. You can choose to believe in a God and worship/follow him/her, or you can choose to believe that you make your own decisions and you should be a good person. But then you get the question 'What is a good person?', and the answer is whatever you believe it to be. It's all about the belief, or lack thereof.

[Oznogrd]

we belive fact/stories by oour personal experience...maybe the biblical god is correct, i dont know, but i have seen nothing in my own life to prove that to me..and as cy said. faith spirituality is different from the idea of organized religion...my beliefs are god does not communicate with us...Jesus was a guy who said lets just be nice to people...then he was written about. Think about this when you're telling stories to your buddies about someone you really idolize or looked up to...dont you tend to exaggerate a little bit? so writing a book, can you imagine what the temptation would be to exaggerate? I'm not saying its not accurate or that Jesus was not a great man, my gripe is taking something taken and edited by so many people (i mean what version of the english bible is this numerically?)...each new printing may be slightly edited but its like that old telephone game...if you play it long enough, nothings the same as the original....its true of other holy texts so dont think i'm singling the bible out, its just the one i'm most familiar with so i tend to use it for my attacks on some aspects of religion because i can back it up. I dont believe the bible is the truth, nothing can truly be certified as "authentic" this far after...its guidelines for life...if you boil it down it says be nice to people, have faith things will work out and live your life, thats about it...as i keep saying, i'll state my beliefs when i get a little more time to think how to articulate my story

[Axel]

I live in a really small rural area, completely dominated by protestants, right in the heart of the Bible Belt. Supposedly our county has the most churches per square mile, which wouldn't surprise me; between my friend and me, we were able to count 60 different ones off the top of our head. Anyhow, this all relates to me in the sense that as a little kid, I always felt the overwhelming desire to "let God in my heart", because it was what everyone else was doing. People I knew were getting saved and baptised left and right, and I think I tried too hard to find God. I was saved during a program called Vacation Bible School (a week long fellowship deal in the summer), when I was about 8 or 9. I honestly don't know if it was genuine or not, it was far too long ago to remember. I didn't go to church much back then, I thought it was boring and fought it completely. I eventually became less spiritual, and began to deny the existance of God (because honestly, who can truly imagine a "spiritiual" being?).

Recently though, I've given the religion topic another thought. I've come to the conclusion, that science cannot and will never explain the creation of the universe. The Big Bang is fundamentally flawed, and is rejected in many scientific communities. It has as many holes as it does answers. On the other hand, creationism provides an equal dilemma. Who created God? How did God come into existence? Well, I have thought with these questions myself for a good long time now, and this thread has brought a good deal perspective to it all. Perhaps as simple as it sounds, I liked Cable's answer of "God just is". God to me is the embodiment of what we humans aspire to be, and is present within all of us. It certainly doesn't answer the question of "who created the universe" , but perhaps that can be simplified to "what is the universe" - perhaps the universe "just is" as well - the spirit of "God" within each of us.

You can obviously see how a creed of some sort simplifies things here.

If you read all the way through this, thanks.

Also to cy, illini, Cable, Dro & others... thanks for the discussion. It actually has helped me to realize where I fall spiritually. A deist perhaps? I'm not sure what to classify myself as.

[Cable]

each new printing may be slightly edited but its like that old telephone game...if you play it long enough, nothings the same as the original ... I dont believe the bible is the truth, nothing can truly be certified as "authentic" this far after

That's kind of where I stand right now; I know it's impossible for it to be entirely true, but I do think that if you read between the lines and account for any exaggerations, you can find some truth.

I liked Cable's answer of "God just is"

I was only half serious with that, but okay.