What are you living FOR?

[cyanide]

But what if you go deaf like Beethoven?

Beethoven continued to write and play music He might be able to hear it as it's being played, but he sure can hear it inside his head and it's still his passion and joy.

"I don't know how it's all gonna work out, I can't see it, and I don't understand WHY what's going on is going on...But I believe that it's all going to be alright in the end. Because God is good, and He's in charge."

That belief is fine and all, it's positive and reassuring, but what you do in life plays a huge factor. You can't ride the God bus all the way to a perfect life, you need to know that you'll fail in life, you'll be hurt, you'll have ruined expectations, and the only way you can be truly successful is the huge amount of effort you have to put in with a bit of luck... or in your case, blessings

How come? It's just not real to you?

I think you came across a little too preachy - as in God is the only "true" source of happiness, while others have found their own. While you can argue and justify that anything but God is not eternal happiness, while others can argue that it's not easy putting faith into something that's intangible, and losing credibility in the light of the issues within the Church and modern/postmodern theories.

[Jugs]

*not reading anything in this read*

I keep myself alive for the punani and basketball. and also to pwn people.

[Nick]

If you get your motivation from anything like money, your good looks, your social status, your abilities, whatever, if that's your FOUNDATION, then you're setting yourself up to be crushed. Because none of those things last, and none of them can't be taken away from you.

I was put on this earth to make good music. And it's what i live for. That would classed under 'abilities', wouldn't it? But that can't be taken away from me. Music wont fall 'out of love' with me.

Who needs god then.

that's great that you're great at music & get so much from it. But what if you go deaf like Beethoven? Or what if something happens to your hands? And when you get older, you're not going to be as sharp as you are now. I recently read a book called The Man Who Loved Only Numbers, which is about mathematicians, basically. Their #1 fear is going senile- & losing their math abilities. It's not a healthy thing to base your foundation, your life support, on something that can cease. IMO

I agree, I don't think there's anything more powerful than love, but love isn't always apparent. There's always love from family - but that depends on the family, there's love from friends - but that's most likely only temporary, and you can make a case that God will love you always, but that depends all on faith that's not tangible as family and friends.

Good point. It does depend on a faith that will probably waver even for you.

It makes sense to ask the question, "What does it mean to get your strength from God? & to have faith in something that can be argued as not even existing!" To me, the way I apply the love of God as my foundation is thinking,

"I don't know how it's all gonna work out, I can't see it, and I don't understand WHY what's going on is going on...But I believe that it's all going to be alright in the end. Because God is good, and He's in charge." All I have to do is keep trying to do what's right, and that's good enough.

Quote:

For me, I've decided that there's not one thing but the love of God that will keep people going FOR REAL, and FOR GOOD

I stopped reading there.

I can't live for that. Never.

How come? It's just not real to you?

and hey I just found this quote online:

"For a long time it had seemed to me that life was about to begin - real life. But there was always some obstacle in the way, something to be gotten through first, some unfinished business, time still to be served, or a debt to be paid. Then life would begin. At last it dawned on me that these obstacles were my life."- Alfred D. Souza

Yes those are all good points but why would i believe in somebody who doesn't exist?

[Scotty]

living is just great o.k

[bullsfan009]

Beethoven continued to write and play music He might be able to hear it as it's being played, but he sure can hear it inside his head and it's still his passion and joy.

true, but I was just trying to make a point- there were things that could have happened to end his music career, like senility, alzheimers, etc.

That belief is fine and all, it's positive and reassuring, but what you do in life plays a huge factor. You can't ride the God bus all the way to a perfect life, you need to know that you'll fail in life, you'll be hurt, you'll have ruined expectations, and the only way you can be truly successful is the huge amount of effort you have to put in with a bit of luck... or in your case, blessings

I absolutely agree with you Cyanide. What I'm saying is that if you have God's love as your base, then IT's OK if you fail, are hurt, have ruined expectations, etc. God just wants us to have the desire, to try, to have it in our hearts, to be on the right road in the end. That's good enough for him, but it's not by society's measures.

This sermon talks about this:
http://mlkpp-techie.stanford.edu/proposed/publications/sermons/680303.000_Unfulfulled_Dreams.html

I think you came across a little too preachy - as in God is the only "true" source of happiness, while others have found their own. While you can argue and justify that anything but God is not eternal happiness, while others can argue that it's not easy putting faith into something that's intangible, and losing credibility in the light of the issues within the Church and modern/postmodern theories.

Fair enough, Cy. I know there's a big subjective element to it all. I just feel very strongly about the subject. Everybody's going to die, and they're going to have to figure things out by then (although you never know when it's gonna be). For me, I see no better alternative than to turn to the source of love & goodness, who I believe to be God almighty. I wish for everyone to be filled with the hope & happiness & optimism that I have, but everyone's different I know.

But God hasn't been disproven yet either in science or in people's hearts, although some church representatives seem to be trying hard speed up the process like you hinted at

Yes those are all good points but why would i believe in somebody who doesn't exist?

that would be hard, if he didn't exist that is. You actually can't prove it one way or the other, but why don't you believe that there is a God?- if you want to talk about it...I'm game. I will respect your opinion too in the end

[cyanide]

true, but I was just trying to make a point- there were things that could have happened to end his music career, like senility, alzheimers, etc.

Just a thought, let's just say Beethoven believed God all his life but then got alzheimers, or some disease where he couldn't play music anymore. It would be harder for him to put his trust in God afterwards than if he never believed in God his whole life, recieved that disease then turned to God. Just a little ironic thought. That dilemma reminds me of Job.

I absolutely agree with you Cyanide. What I'm saying is that if you have God's love as your base, then IT's OK if you fail, are hurt, have ruined expectations, etc. God just wants us to have the desire, to try, to have it in our hearts, to be on the right road in the end. That's good enough for him, but it's not by society's measures.

That's the key, though: Societal expectations. Sure, I don't like how society is run these days, but it's how it works. Everybody's competitive, most people are greedy, and if people want to survive in the world, they have to live up to societal expecations to be "successful." It doesn't necessarily translate to happiness, but there is a strong correlation with happiness and wealth, though. It's true that those who are strongly religious do end up happier and are more well behaved, but at the same time, a lot (not all, and definitely not you) are ignorant and close minded into their own bubble without exploring other things or experiencing life beyond its limits, but rather restricting oneself to bound rules. I don't know which side of the coin would be better, but it seems to weigh each other out (i.e. conservatives vs. liberals)

For me, I see no better alternative than to turn to the source of love & goodness, who I believe to be God almighty. I wish for everyone to be filled with the hope & happiness & optimism that I have, but everyone's different I know.

It's great that you want people to be filled with love and goodness, but are you implying that nobody is filled with love and goodness unless they believe in God? I know people have different ways to be happy and optimistic without having God in their lives. Personally, I think Jesus is somebody that everybody should look up to, but if you look at my belief system as a whole, it's very complex and it can't be summed up to a simple "Roman Catholic" or "Protestant" grouping. PM me if you want to discuss/debate more about beliefs and philosophies. This kind of stuff is what I find very intriguing and interesting.

But God hasn't been disproven yet either in science or in people's hearts, although some church representatives seem to be trying hard speed up the process like you hinted at

Nobody can prove or disprove God, no matter how credible the "facts" either side presents, and as for the Church, it'll speed up to modernity regarding issues in homosexuality and feminism, but not under the current pope, which happens to be one of the more conservative popes of our time.

[bullsfan009]

Just a thought, let's just say Beethoven believed God all his life but then got alzheimers, or some disease where he couldn't play music anymore. It would be harder for him to put his trust in God afterwards than if he never believed in God his whole life, recieved that disease then turned to God. Just a little ironic thought. That dilemma reminds me of Job.

Well that depends if he expected God to keep him healthy & in good shape. Believing in God shouldn't mean you expect to go through life on the high-road, on easy street. No, you actually should (ideally) be the most equipped to deal with difficulties. Like as you said with Job. It is ironic though how sometimes it takes something awful to happen for someone to believe in God, and for someone else all it takes is a little love from the right people

That's the key, though: Societal expectations. Sure, I don't like how society is run these days, but it's how it works. Everybody's competitive, most people are greedy, and if people want to survive in the world, they have to live up to societal expecations to be "successful." It doesn't necessarily translate to happiness, but there is a strong correlation with happiness and wealth, though. It's true that those who are strongly religious do end up happier and are more well behaved, but at the same time, a lot (not all, and definitely not you) are ignorant and close minded into their own bubble without exploring other things or experiencing life beyond its limits, but rather restricting oneself to bound rules. I don't know which side of the coin would be better, but it seems to weigh each other out (i.e. conservatives vs. liberals)

Yes, people have to live in this society and play by its rules to survive, although I personally feel that there are some lines that people should draw as to how far they will get sucked into it. Evil behavior shouldn't be justified just because it's part of a system, even if everyone is using it to "survive." (take slavery in the South, for example- the slave owner were just feeding their families and making a living!- they were still wrong though, and I feel it would have been better for them to be dead broke & poor than to participate in enslaving human beings)

And I agree about what you say about the overty-religious. I have to avoid falling into that trap, too...that's why I don't committ to either Democrat/Republican, Liberal/Conservative label. But you've got to make the separation between God & people who are doing a poor job in representing a healthy faith in Him. Stupid & downright evil behavior by religious people doesn't take away from God's divinity, only religion's (as a earthly system) credibility.

I disagree that there is a strong correlation between money and happiness, though. People in other countries, much poorer material-wise, are far more at peace & are far more happy than the typical stressed out, depressed, lost-in-the-rat-race American.

It's great that you want people to be filled with love and goodness, but are you implying that nobody is filled with love and goodness unless they believe in God? I know people have different ways to be happy and optimistic without having God in their lives. Personally, I think Jesus is somebody that everybody should look up to, but if you look at my belief system as a whole, it's very complex and it can't be summed up to a simple "Roman Catholic" or "Protestant" grouping. PM me if you want to discuss/debate more about beliefs and philosophies. This kind of stuff is what I find very intriguing and interesting.

No, I'm not suggesting that people are only filled with love & goodness if they believe in God...that would be very narrow minded. What I'm saying is that God's love is the best place from which to find happiness, because of the nature of God as good, all-powerful, merciful, and eternal.

But I must say that I doubt if a person on their deathbed can really be happy if they don't have...well I shouldn't say God, but how about...love? ("God is love" anyway according to the Bible...) You may be teaching me that Love is the bigger picture here, Cy But you can't go far from talking about love without talking about the source of love, the one who IS love

I also find these debates very intriguing & interesting...are we not allowed to discuss it here, though? Nobody else is around, it seems...

Nobody can prove or disprove God, no matter how credible the "facts" either side presents

yes, that's pretty amazing to me how a claim so ancient cannot be overthrown with all the knowledge we've accumulated & all the technology we have access to...but also it's rough that God cannot be proven. But also, it's supposed to be that way, because God wants us to have faith and show that we want to know Him & stand up for righteousness on earth...

and as for the Church, it'll speed up to modernity regarding issues in homosexuality and feminism, but not under the current pope, which happens to be one of the more conservative popes of our time.

I'm not very up to date on the Catholic church, but it does seem that Christianity as a whole is moving in that direction, hopefully for the be better

[magius]

i really want to say something smart, but no, sex. once i hit my quote i will dry up like a raisin and cease to exist. god understands.

honestly, a relationship makes things easier in my experience, and friends. no man is an island, except if he's australian. huh, what, look! a monkey! life really isnt that hard unless your ugly and untalented, again, australians. look! a cockarice!

i'll take a quote from a movie i watched: "find something you like and hope that you're good at it." way i see it, whether theres heaven, hell, or nothing after this life, might as well see where it goes, believing nothing is of consequence until you find something that is. for me i've found it and lost it, and in the times in between i like to write, i like music, i find friendships generally overrated unless they're with girls, and romantic relationships essential. live, laugh, learn. cya.

oh yeah and god is okay, if you can find a way to find faith in a religion, all the power to you. i for one don't believe in a religion, but do believe in god. i have faith in him, but the sort of faith that one finds in a mountain or a tree, its just there and i ask nothing of it.

[bullsfan009]

Cool thoughts magius. If you have a purpose to your life, then that's when its the best to have a source of strength that will carry you throughout all the ups & downs.

and I understand how you feel about God, that's interesting. I view God as a personal God though, more like a friend who's very supportive but is constantly challenging you

I gotta hit the sack guys, I have to get up for work in 5 hours
night y'all, good talking, esp. Cy

[J@3]

I worship at the house of Jaesus. Oh yeah, bask in my reflective blasphemy.

[Riot]

I have quite a few goals set that I want to achieve in my lifetime. I think I have made most of those goals loud and clear on here (fighting for America, becomming a police officer and helping people, etc). Those are the things that are the most important to me. If I have a bad day I think about the people who having an even worse day and it makes me feel a lot more thankful.

I'm not like most people in the world. My goal is not to get a lot of money and have the hottest wife in the world (although that would be a bonus). My main goal is just to protect and serve. Some people love cars, dogs, art, music, etc. I love my country and the people in it. That is what keeps me going when life gets tough and that is what I live for. If I die young I want to die young with honor and courage. I want people to see that I served and I put my life on the line for people I don't even know and I want them to take that example and run with it. I hope more people decide to serve and become police officers, fire fighters or paramedics.

So yeah, now I am just rambling on and on. What do I live for? My Country and My Honor.

[H Rock]

Nobody can prove or disprove God, no matter how credible the "facts" either side presents

The facts are there. It's a matter of faith.

[cyanide]

I disagree that there is a strong correlation between money and happiness, though. People in other countries, much poorer material-wise, are far more at peace & are far more happy than the typical stressed out, depressed, lost-in-the-rat-race American.

I should've clarified what I meant. I meant there's a strong correlation between money and happiness in America. In other countries, though, definitely there are happier people who are more poor than even a rich American. The problem with North American culture is that there are societal expectations that materialism is a greater source of happiness than say, spirituality or family. We've been bombarded within mass advertising since we were kids, so it's a culture we're used to but it's considered a crisis these days.

But I must say that I doubt if a person on their deathbed can really be happy if they don't have...well I shouldn't say God, but how about...love? ("God is love" anyway according to the Bible...) You may be teaching me that Love is the bigger picture here, Cy But you can't go far from talking about love without talking about the source of love, the one who IS love

I agree that God is the source of life and love, but God is everywhere as an invisible Ground of Being. God doesn't intervene, and doesn't take away, you can't depict God. It's hard to love love itself because it's a source that's already inside us. Imo, it's greater to love somebody (as in a real, physical, breathing, tangible individual) that has love in him/herself to share with. By sharing those two loves, there's something beautiful that happens, and we see a reflection of God's spirit between the two individuals. You could say it's the same as one person loving God, but I say it's different because you're only loving something that you already possess, unless you describe God as an actual being, as in for example, a man with a white beard. We can only see a reflection of God's love by loving somebody as we love ourselves, and being loved back.

I also find these debates very intriguing & interesting...are we not allowed to discuss it here, though? Nobody else is around, it seems...

Well, threads don't last forever, but if you're around occasionally, then it's all good then

yes, that's pretty amazing to me how a claim so ancient cannot be overthrown with all the knowledge we've accumulated & all the technology we have access to...but also it's rough that God cannot be proven. But also, it's supposed to be that way, because God wants us to have faith and show that we want to know Him & stand up for righteousness on earth...

Freud wrote about the trauma of consciousness. Where thousands and thousands of years ago, we are born into a harsh and dangerous world where the only way to survive is to kill or search for food. By being alone in such a vast world, it is only natural to start to believe that there is some greater power out there that put us here for a reason. By doing this, inventing a type of god to believe in will instill a parental and authoritative figure to alleviate our trauma of being exposed to the harshness of our surroundings.

Being passed down in generations in tradition and religion, it's not surprising it still exists despite philosophical reasoning that's showing a decline in religious beliefs... but still, we will always have a tendency to have interests in the metaphysical, and there will be people who turn to religion for comfort if their life goes wrong the first time around.

The facts are there. It's a matter of faith.

You can't prove facts when you're talking about the metaphysical. It is a matter of faith. Faith alone can't make a fact but a belief.

[Jackal]

I also find these debates very intriguing & interesting...are we not allowed to discuss it here, though? Nobody else is around, it seems...

I'm here, just not as interested when it comes to discussing religion et all.

[AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy]

What keeps you going through these cycles of life?

The Truth. And the little voice inside us all that tells us what it is.

[H Rock]

You can't prove facts when you're talking about the metaphysical. It is a matter of faith. Faith alone can't make a fact but a belief.

We're not just talking about metaphysical. You can't prove that God exists, but you can use evidence that strongly suggest he does. Creation, for example.

[Nick]

Yes those are all good points but why would i believe in somebody who doesn't exist?

that would be hard, if he didn't exist that is. You actually can't prove it one way or the other, but why don't you believe that there is a God?- if you want to talk about it...I'm game. I will respect your opinion too in the end

Without offending those that are religous, i've always looked at the whole "God" concept as an imaginary character for people with no hope to put their faith in, which is kind of pathetic to me. So that's why i never really bought into the "believing in god" thing. It has about the same warrant as believing in the tooth fairy.

But then, i'm stubborn, i wont believe something unless there are facts there. And that's just me. But I have no problem at all with people who believe in god. In fact, admittedly, most religous people seem happier. So yay for them!

[cyanide]

We're not just talking about metaphysical. You can't prove that God exists, but you can use evidence that strongly suggest he does. Creation, for example.

The Creation was based in the Bible, and books can't be held as Truth. It can be used as a tool to justify "facts" but it doesn't prove that they are facts at all.

[H Rock]

Wait a minute. There are scientific facts that prove creation is right and evolution is wrong.

[J@3]

Where?

[Riot]

Where?

"In the bible."

[R.J.]

This is a pretty hard question to answer.

[The Other Kevin]

Wait a minute. There are scientific facts that prove creation is right and evolution is wrong.

You have got to be fucking me up the ass.

[J@3]

Where?

"In the bible."

We just had some Seventh Day Adventists come knocking on the door, I told them I was too poor to be religious. Then she asked for money

[H Rock]

Where?

I'm not going to get into a scientific arguement, because then I wouldn't be knowing what I'm talking about. But, tell me, have they ever found that "missing link" that proves evolution is true? There should be so many millions of these "missing link", yet they haven't found one. Now, isn't that strange.