Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:01 am
Jae wrote:Would those attacks happen with or without the War on Terror? Probably.
Are you serious? Before 9/11, exactly how many major terrorist attacks do you recall in such a short period of time happening to prominent countries?
You claim all I care about is America and if something happens to America it's "all important" but when it happens to another country we don't care. There have been terrorist attacks decades before 9/11. Car bombs, sucide bombers, ect all over the place. The middle east has always been a place for fighting. And the other countries are getting attacked because they either A. are for the War on Terror or allies with America or Israel.
Are you saying if we didn't fight these guys there would be no problem? They brought the war to America. They obviously want a fight and sitting down and watching it unfold without doing anything won't make them go away and shut up.
The only way to eventually end terrorism is to fight it. It will never go away if there is an un-checked population of terrorist cells and recruitment centers.
Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:44 pm
Quite a few Australians killed in this latest one as well, given it's a popular tourist destination. In fact, a family friend's daughter was among the dead.
RIP to all those who lost their lives, condolences to all the families and here's hoping for a quick recovery for those injured.
RIP to all those who lost their lives, condolences to all the families and here's hoping for a quick recovery for those injured.
Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:52 pm
Jae wrote:To be honest, "The War On Terror" sounds like a load of horse shit.
Jae wrote:Yeah, and we've only had about 4 or 5 major terrorist attacks since causing hundreds of deaths. Go team!
Jae knows whats he's talking about.
Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:35 pm
Jae, considering how big September 11 was, I think it has been an accomplishment how well terrorism has been contained.
Also, you say "since" septmber 11. They intitiated the whole thing. They started the war on terror. You cannot blame the coalition for responding to such an attack.
And dont forget, Bali was attacked before the war in iraq. Russia has been attacked even though it had nothing to do with the war in iraq. Spain has been attacked when it was on the verge of pulling out and even after they pulled out.
You cant blame australia, america, england or anywhere else for responding after being attacked. That would be like saying "there was a fire in 1999, and the bush fire brigade put it out. then in 2000 there was 4 bush fires, which were smaller thanks to backburning. Go Team!"
However, the term "war on terror" is quite corny. But no more corny than rap music. So dont be a hypocrit Steve.
Also, you say "since" septmber 11. They intitiated the whole thing. They started the war on terror. You cannot blame the coalition for responding to such an attack.
And dont forget, Bali was attacked before the war in iraq. Russia has been attacked even though it had nothing to do with the war in iraq. Spain has been attacked when it was on the verge of pulling out and even after they pulled out.
You cant blame australia, america, england or anywhere else for responding after being attacked. That would be like saying "there was a fire in 1999, and the bush fire brigade put it out. then in 2000 there was 4 bush fires, which were smaller thanks to backburning. Go Team!"
However, the term "war on terror" is quite corny. But no more corny than rap music. So dont be a hypocrit Steve.
Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:42 pm
I don't blame them at all... I mean you can't really just sit back, I just think personally I've noticed alot more major terrorist attacks a bit closer to home then there used to be. Personally I don't know what the solution could be, but something a bit more covert would've been just as affective I believe. If you build up this "War On Terror" in the media to the point where it filters to the Middle East and wherever else, it's sort of challenging them in a sense. I think they could've done the same job, only more subtle.
Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:48 pm
But that is kind of the point, we are challenging them. They are at war with is, what are we suppose to do? The best way to go for it is to send in troops and try to take out key leaders, recruitment centers, terrorist camps and terrorist funders. You can't do that all with just a small group of special forces. And if you send in all those troops to the middle east and southwest asia what is Bush going to tell America? We're just sending them there for the fun of it?
Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:54 pm
Why challenge these people though? It makes absolutely no sense. Sure there'd have to be reasons for sending so many troops in, but why on Earth shove it down everyone's throats via the media in such a way? Why advertise it and publicise it so much? I know people want to think something's being done, but there's way around it. The terrorists aren't at war with you. They're at war with everyone.
Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:02 pm
I feel really sorry for the Balinese people. The majority of their economy is based on tourism (mainly from Australians) and I really can't see them recovering after this attack. It seemed like people were finally starting to head back there (me being 1 of them earlier this year) after the attack 2 years ago. My friends and I were just planning on returning at the start of next year but not anymore. The Balinese are some of the nicest people in the world (apart from the law enforcement, but I could go on forever about those corrupt bastards)
Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:21 pm
Riot wrote:But that is kind of the point, we are challenging them.
But that's just aggravating the situation at any costs. You can bet they'll retaliate and go for those 72 virgins in heaven.
They are at war with is, what are we suppose to do? The best way to go for it is to send in troops and try to take out key leaders, recruitment centers, terrorist camps and terrorist funders. You can't do that all with just a small group of special forces.
That's good and all, but aren't most of the troops still in Iraq?
Tue Oct 04, 2005 2:03 am
You're right Riot. The 30,000 innocent civillians killed in Iraq is terrible. Why won't someone stop the United States sponsered terrorists called the military? It's terrible.
But of course, the 19 people dead in Bali is much worse. I'm not trying to condone these actions, but people who cry about 19 dead and try to justify 30,000 dead are just flat out stupid.
But of course, the 19 people dead in Bali is much worse. I'm not trying to condone these actions, but people who cry about 19 dead and try to justify 30,000 dead are just flat out stupid.
Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:40 am
Indy wrote:But of course, the 19 people dead in Bali is much worse. I'm not trying to condone these actions, but people who cry about 19 dead and try to justify 30,000 dead are just flat out stupid.
So just because there is another situation where more people died, we aren't allowed to care about those 19 killed people?
Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:48 am
You make it look like those 30,000 people dead in Iraq is BY THE AMERICAN ARMY. And thsoe deaths that were caused by the American army, were simply accidents of war. Do you really think we send our troops in there and have them shoot at everyone they see? They have strict orders not to shoot unless they are being shot at first. Does that sound like a terrorist group to you?
How are they aggravating the situation? I really don't see your point of view on this one, when I usually do on our debates. I mean, they attacked America. They attacked a lot of innocent lives because they don't like the way we live. WE HAVE TO FIGHT BACK. We aren't pushing anything down our throats. You hear more about the War in Iraq than the War on Terror.
Why is is such a big deal? Maybe because it is a big deal? It's a huge goal and a huge operation. America is trying to END GLOBAL TERRORISM. That is Bush's goal. After 9/11, it got real personal. And America isn't going to back down or play it cool after a sucker-punch like 9/11.
What does advertising have anything to do with it? Whether the American media is up on the war or not the extremists will react. They don't like the American influence in the middle-east and it has been that way for decades. But now the terrorists are calling out a war against America and against the western nations. THEY DECLARED WAR AGAINST US. Why the fuck would we try to keep it under wraps? The American people want justice to be served and rightfully so.
Like I've said before, I can understand you guys not liking the War in Iraq but the War on Terrorism is completely different. How can you disagree with the War on Terror? It's a noble mission trying to protect the world from global terrorism. I'm upset that more nations aren't joining in on the fight. It's an issue that effects all nations in the world.
How are they aggravating the situation? I really don't see your point of view on this one, when I usually do on our debates. I mean, they attacked America. They attacked a lot of innocent lives because they don't like the way we live. WE HAVE TO FIGHT BACK. We aren't pushing anything down our throats. You hear more about the War in Iraq than the War on Terror.
Why is is such a big deal? Maybe because it is a big deal? It's a huge goal and a huge operation. America is trying to END GLOBAL TERRORISM. That is Bush's goal. After 9/11, it got real personal. And America isn't going to back down or play it cool after a sucker-punch like 9/11.
What does advertising have anything to do with it? Whether the American media is up on the war or not the extremists will react. They don't like the American influence in the middle-east and it has been that way for decades. But now the terrorists are calling out a war against America and against the western nations. THEY DECLARED WAR AGAINST US. Why the fuck would we try to keep it under wraps? The American people want justice to be served and rightfully so.
Like I've said before, I can understand you guys not liking the War in Iraq but the War on Terrorism is completely different. How can you disagree with the War on Terror? It's a noble mission trying to protect the world from global terrorism. I'm upset that more nations aren't joining in on the fight. It's an issue that effects all nations in the world.
Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:02 am
Randy 84 Ratio (2:49:25 PM): You make it sound like the Americans killed those 30,000
Randy 84 Ratio (2:49:32 PM): Most of those lives dead are by extremsists
Randy 84 Ratio (2:49:43 PM): Who are there because they don't like the American influence, but it's not direct fire form American arms
Randy 84 Ratio (2:49:59 PM): So calling the American military a terrorists group is insane, IMO
IndyPacers67 (2:49:59 PM): ill be back
IndyPacers67 (2:55:02 PM): That stat is iraqi casualties at the hands of americans
Randy 84 Ratio (2:55:15 PM): I highly doubt it
IndyPacers67 (2:55:18 PM): The total casualty number is much higher
Randy 84 Ratio (2:55:31 PM): So you think America is a terrorist country?
IndyPacers67 (2:55:40 PM): I didn't say that
Randy 84 Ratio (2:55:44 PM): Yes you did
IndyPacers67 (2:56:07 PM): No, I said if you call attacks in Bali terrorism, then you have to call america terrorists too
IndyPacers67 (2:56:11 PM): Its biased language
Randy 84 Ratio (2:56:23 PM): lol that doesn't make sense though
Randy 84 Ratio (2:56:27 PM): More lives were lost in Iraq, yes
Randy 84 Ratio (2:56:33 PM): But those weren't at the hands of a terrorist attack
Randy 84 Ratio (2:56:39 PM): These bali attacks were ruthless
IndyPacers67 (2:56:47 PM): So what makes a terrorist attack a terrorist attack?
IndyPacers67 (2:56:55 PM): Blowing things up? America does that
Randy 84 Ratio (2:57:08 PM): Blowing things up doesn't mean terrorism
IndyPacers67 (2:57:13 PM): Having no cause? The "terrorists" have a cause
Randy 84 Ratio (2:57:19 PM): It's all a point of view
IndyPacers67 (2:57:28 PM): Saying that the Americans are at war? They are at war too.
Randy 84 Ratio (2:57:29 PM): We think we are right, we think the terrorists are wrong
Randy 84 Ratio (2:57:31 PM): They think we are wrong
IndyPacers67 (2:57:34 PM): Both sides are wrong
Randy 84 Ratio (2:57:36 PM): You can decide what side you are on
Randy 84 Ratio (2:57:48 PM): Both sides aren't wrong
Randy 84 Ratio (2:57:55 PM): America is killing just to kill
IndyPacers67 (2:58:06 PM): Its wrong to strap people to bombs and kill them, and its wrong to go into peoples homes and murder them, then claim you thought they were the enemy
Randy 84 Ratio (2:58:06 PM): America isn't trying to kill innocent civilians to make a point
IndyPacers67 (2:58:26 PM): Neither are they
IndyPacers67 (2:58:33 PM): They have a goal in mind
IndyPacers67 (2:58:36 PM): They have a cause
Randy 84 Ratio (2:58:42 PM): They are killing because they don't believe in the American life-style
IndyPacers67 (2:58:57 PM): And we are killing because we don't agree with the middle eastern lifestyle
Randy 84 Ratio (2:59:03 PM): lol no
Randy 84 Ratio (2:59:07 PM): We are killing because they attacked us
Randy 84 Ratio (2:59:23 PM): It's not that we don't agree with the middle-eastern life-style
IndyPacers67 (2:59:25 PM): A small group attacked us
Randy 84 Ratio (2:59:26 PM): That's not it at all
Randy 84 Ratio (2:59:31 PM): a small group?
Randy 84 Ratio (2:59:36 PM): Did you watch Inside 9/11?
IndyPacers67 (2:59:38 PM): They attacked us because we have been attacking them since the early 90s
Randy 84 Ratio (2:59:39 PM): on National Geographic
Randy 84 Ratio (2:59:48 PM): 9/11 was huge
IndyPacers67 (3:00:22 PM): To say the Al Queda orgnanization had absolutley no justification for what they did is totally stupid. They had a reason to do it
IndyPacers67 (3:01:19 PM): They were fighting back
IndyPacers67 (3:01:21 PM): We were the agressors
IndyPacers67 (3:01:33 PM): That's not to say their actions were correct
IndyPacers67 (3:01:38 PM): They were wrong in killing innocent people
IndyPacers67 (3:01:54 PM): And we are wrong for fighting a war in which 10 times as many civillians are killed
IndyPacers67 (3:01:57 PM): At our hands
“Randy 84 Ratio” signed off at 3:02:07 PM.
He's back on, I'll update what else is said later.
Randy 84 Ratio (2:49:32 PM): Most of those lives dead are by extremsists
Randy 84 Ratio (2:49:43 PM): Who are there because they don't like the American influence, but it's not direct fire form American arms
Randy 84 Ratio (2:49:59 PM): So calling the American military a terrorists group is insane, IMO
IndyPacers67 (2:49:59 PM): ill be back
IndyPacers67 (2:55:02 PM): That stat is iraqi casualties at the hands of americans
Randy 84 Ratio (2:55:15 PM): I highly doubt it
IndyPacers67 (2:55:18 PM): The total casualty number is much higher
Randy 84 Ratio (2:55:31 PM): So you think America is a terrorist country?
IndyPacers67 (2:55:40 PM): I didn't say that
Randy 84 Ratio (2:55:44 PM): Yes you did
IndyPacers67 (2:56:07 PM): No, I said if you call attacks in Bali terrorism, then you have to call america terrorists too
IndyPacers67 (2:56:11 PM): Its biased language
Randy 84 Ratio (2:56:23 PM): lol that doesn't make sense though
Randy 84 Ratio (2:56:27 PM): More lives were lost in Iraq, yes
Randy 84 Ratio (2:56:33 PM): But those weren't at the hands of a terrorist attack
Randy 84 Ratio (2:56:39 PM): These bali attacks were ruthless
IndyPacers67 (2:56:47 PM): So what makes a terrorist attack a terrorist attack?
IndyPacers67 (2:56:55 PM): Blowing things up? America does that
Randy 84 Ratio (2:57:08 PM): Blowing things up doesn't mean terrorism
IndyPacers67 (2:57:13 PM): Having no cause? The "terrorists" have a cause
Randy 84 Ratio (2:57:19 PM): It's all a point of view
IndyPacers67 (2:57:28 PM): Saying that the Americans are at war? They are at war too.
Randy 84 Ratio (2:57:29 PM): We think we are right, we think the terrorists are wrong
Randy 84 Ratio (2:57:31 PM): They think we are wrong
IndyPacers67 (2:57:34 PM): Both sides are wrong
Randy 84 Ratio (2:57:36 PM): You can decide what side you are on
Randy 84 Ratio (2:57:48 PM): Both sides aren't wrong
Randy 84 Ratio (2:57:55 PM): America is killing just to kill
IndyPacers67 (2:58:06 PM): Its wrong to strap people to bombs and kill them, and its wrong to go into peoples homes and murder them, then claim you thought they were the enemy
Randy 84 Ratio (2:58:06 PM): America isn't trying to kill innocent civilians to make a point
IndyPacers67 (2:58:26 PM): Neither are they
IndyPacers67 (2:58:33 PM): They have a goal in mind
IndyPacers67 (2:58:36 PM): They have a cause
Randy 84 Ratio (2:58:42 PM): They are killing because they don't believe in the American life-style
IndyPacers67 (2:58:57 PM): And we are killing because we don't agree with the middle eastern lifestyle
Randy 84 Ratio (2:59:03 PM): lol no
Randy 84 Ratio (2:59:07 PM): We are killing because they attacked us
Randy 84 Ratio (2:59:23 PM): It's not that we don't agree with the middle-eastern life-style
IndyPacers67 (2:59:25 PM): A small group attacked us
Randy 84 Ratio (2:59:26 PM): That's not it at all
Randy 84 Ratio (2:59:31 PM): a small group?
Randy 84 Ratio (2:59:36 PM): Did you watch Inside 9/11?
IndyPacers67 (2:59:38 PM): They attacked us because we have been attacking them since the early 90s
Randy 84 Ratio (2:59:39 PM): on National Geographic
Randy 84 Ratio (2:59:48 PM): 9/11 was huge
IndyPacers67 (3:00:22 PM): To say the Al Queda orgnanization had absolutley no justification for what they did is totally stupid. They had a reason to do it
IndyPacers67 (3:01:19 PM): They were fighting back
IndyPacers67 (3:01:21 PM): We were the agressors
IndyPacers67 (3:01:33 PM): That's not to say their actions were correct
IndyPacers67 (3:01:38 PM): They were wrong in killing innocent people
IndyPacers67 (3:01:54 PM): And we are wrong for fighting a war in which 10 times as many civillians are killed
IndyPacers67 (3:01:57 PM): At our hands
“Randy 84 Ratio” signed off at 3:02:07 PM.
He's back on, I'll update what else is said later.
Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:27 am
Randy 84 Ratio (3:03:45 PM): Sorry about that
Randy 84 Ratio (3:03:50 PM): We can continue our debate
IndyPacers67 (3:04:10 PM): Did you read my last part?
Randy 84 Ratio (3:04:15 PM): nope
Randy 84 Ratio (3:04:21 PM): computer had to restart
IndyPacers67 (3:04:47 PM): IndyPacers67 (3:00:22 PM): To say the Al Queda orgnanization had absolutley no justification for what they did is totally stupid. They had a reason to do it
IndyPacers67 (3:01:19 PM): They were fighting back
IndyPacers67 (3:04:51 PM): IndyPacers67 (3:01:21 PM): We were the agressors
IndyPacers67 (3:01:33 PM): That's not to say their actions were correct
IndyPacers67 (3:04:54 PM): IndyPacers67 (3:01:54 PM): And we are wrong for fighting a war in which 10 times as many civillians are killed
IndyPacers67 (3:01:57 PM): At our hands
Randy 84 Ratio (3:05:11 PM): I disagree
Randy 84 Ratio (3:05:19 PM): Sure, they think they have reasons
Randy 84 Ratio (3:05:22 PM): I think those reasons ar ebullshit
Randy 84 Ratio (3:05:28 PM): And we're fighting to save life
Randy 84 Ratio (3:05:34 PM): We're killing to save life, if that makes any sense
Randy 84 Ratio (3:05:43 PM): If we didn't do anything, they would kill more lives over time
Randy 84 Ratio (3:05:49 PM): INNOCENT lives
IndyPacers67 (3:05:55 PM): They are fighting to maintain their culture and their lifestyle
Randy 84 Ratio (3:06:03 PM): lol that's not what we're fighitng for
Randy 84 Ratio (3:06:10 PM): They aren't fighting to keep their culture
IndyPacers67 (3:06:14 PM): They don't want western influence and capitalism
Randy 84 Ratio (3:06:22 PM): We're in the middle-east (before 9/11) because they couldn't live together in peace
IndyPacers67 (3:06:35 PM): That's not true
Randy 84 Ratio (3:06:36 PM): If they didn't want America in the middle-east they should ahve settled their differences with the jews
Randy 84 Ratio (3:06:47 PM): But there was too much fighting for too long of time
IndyPacers67 (3:07:04 PM): I blame the jews for that, but that's a whole different argument
Randy 84 Ratio (3:07:15 PM): lol I hate jews
Randy 84 Ratio (3:07:52 PM): Of course they think they are right
Randy 84 Ratio (3:07:56 PM): That's how all wars happen
Randy 84 Ratio (3:08:00 PM): Both sides think they are right
Randy 84 Ratio (3:08:17 PM): They believe in what they are fighting for
Randy 84 Ratio (3:08:21 PM): I believe we are fighting for peace
Randy 84 Ratio (3:08:28 PM): In this case, war was the only answer
IndyPacers67 (3:08:43 PM): I don't think you can say you are fighting for peace when you have killed so many more people then the enemy has
Randy 84 Ratio (3:08:56 PM): lol that's not the point
Randy 84 Ratio (3:09:07 PM): "killed sdo many more people than the enemy has"
IndyPacers67 (3:09:09 PM): If America's beliefs are so great, then how come we can't win this war without the massive loss of life
Randy 84 Ratio (3:09:18 PM): The difference between the two are simple
Randy 84 Ratio (3:09:24 PM): America is invading their place
Randy 84 Ratio (3:09:33 PM): America is fighting in a distant place
Randy 84 Ratio (3:09:37 PM): An unkown region
Randy 84 Ratio (3:09:40 PM): Trying to find them
IndyPacers67 (3:09:52 PM): Trying to find who?
Randy 84 Ratio (3:09:52 PM): If the roles were reversed it would be the same
Randy 84 Ratio (3:09:55 PM): Thet errorists
Randy 84 Ratio (3:10:00 PM): It's easier to hide than to find
IndyPacers67 (3:10:18 PM): Its not like you can kill off terrorists though
IndyPacers67 (3:10:21 PM): You can't be that naive
Randy 84 Ratio (3:10:29 PM): So we shouldn't try?
IndyPacers67 (3:10:36 PM): You find a group and destroy it, it will make more people mad.
Randy 84 Ratio (3:10:37 PM): Let them just get bigger and richer?
Randy 84 Ratio (3:10:42 PM): They are already mad
IndyPacers67 (3:10:43 PM): No, because its a non-winnable war
Randy 84 Ratio (3:10:49 PM): non-winnable war?
Randy 84 Ratio (3:10:53 PM): It's a war
Randy 84 Ratio (3:10:56 PM): They declared war on us
Randy 84 Ratio (3:11:02 PM): It has to be winnable, or we lose
IndyPacers67 (3:11:04 PM): I know they are mad, and even with the huge loss of life, terrorism still exsists even more so then before
IndyPacers67 (3:11:13 PM): And we WILL lose!
Randy 84 Ratio (3:11:18 PM): WE WILL NOT LOSE
Randy 84 Ratio (3:11:19 PM): I promise
Randy 84 Ratio (3:11:28 PM): We will fight to the death
IndyPacers67 (3:11:28 PM): By fighting this war, we are creating more strife and more terrorism
Randy 84 Ratio (3:11:29 PM): and I mean it
Randy 84 Ratio (3:11:36 PM): We do not give up
Randy 84 Ratio (3:11:38 PM): We do not give in
IndyPacers67 (3:11:40 PM): It doesn't matter Riot
Randy 84 Ratio (3:11:41 PM): The terrorists WILL LOSE
Randy 84 Ratio (3:11:48 PM): And the world will be a better place
IndyPacers67 (3:11:54 PM): You can spew all that shit all you want, but there will continue to be more and more people fighting back
IndyPacers67 (3:11:59 PM): They have the same mentality you do
Randy 84 Ratio (3:12:07 PM): THat's great
Randy 84 Ratio (3:12:08 PM): bring it on
IndyPacers67 (3:12:11 PM): They clearly don't fear death
Randy 84 Ratio (3:12:14 PM): We have something they don't have
IndyPacers67 (3:12:23 PM): What money?
IndyPacers67 (3:12:26 PM): Doesn't matter
Randy 84 Ratio (3:12:39 PM): money, technology, skill, training
IndyPacers67 (3:12:48 PM): It doesn't matter
Randy 84 Ratio (3:12:48 PM): They can't fight in a true war
Randy 84 Ratio (3:12:55 PM): They have to result to bombing innocents
IndyPacers67 (3:12:57 PM): They hate the american culture so much, they will never give in
Randy 84 Ratio (3:12:58 PM): They attack and hide
Randy 84 Ratio (3:13:10 PM): And we hate the terrorist culture so much, we'll never give in
IndyPacers67 (3:13:24 PM): Yes we will
Randy 84 Ratio (3:13:31 PM): It maybe "spewing garbage" but hey, it's a noble cause and it's a cause that will be won by the worthy
IndyPacers67 (3:13:37 PM): I guarentee you so many people said the same thing about Vietnam
Randy 84 Ratio (3:13:45 PM): We didn't lose Vietnam
IndyPacers67 (3:14:11 PM): Oh really? Is that why communism grew to an even greater height after we pulled out?
Randy 84 Ratio (3:14:20 PM): That's the thing
Randy 84 Ratio (3:14:22 PM): We pulled out
Randy 84 Ratio (3:14:25 PM): We shouldn't have pulled out
IndyPacers67 (3:14:34 PM): We pulled out because we were going to lose
Randy 84 Ratio (3:14:35 PM): We lost the war politically
IndyPacers67 (3:14:40 PM): Because the loss of life was too huge
Randy 84 Ratio (3:14:43 PM): We never lost one military engagement
IndyPacers67 (3:14:46 PM): The war was losing support
Randy 84 Ratio (3:14:47 PM): We never lost ONE BATTLE
IndyPacers67 (3:14:50 PM): Just like this war will
IndyPacers67 (3:14:57 PM): Its not about BATTLES RIOT!
Randy 84 Ratio (3:15:13 PM): We would have eventually won
IndyPacers67 (3:15:23 PM): Nope
IndyPacers67 (3:15:31 PM): Absolutley not
Randy 84 Ratio (3:15:33 PM): Yes
IndyPacers67 (3:15:33 PM): Because like you said
IndyPacers67 (3:15:47 PM): We will fight to the death
IndyPacers67 (3:15:49 PM): We were dead
IndyPacers67 (3:15:51 PM): The cause was dead
Randy 84 Ratio (3:16:00 PM): We lost the war at home
IndyPacers67 (3:16:02 PM): The same thing will happen with the war on terrorism and in Iraq
Randy 84 Ratio (3:16:03 PM): We lost support
Randy 84 Ratio (3:16:05 PM): And we had to pull out
IndyPacers67 (3:16:07 PM): Rightfully so
Randy 84 Ratio (3:16:10 PM): No
IndyPacers67 (3:16:12 PM): It was a total disaster
IndyPacers67 (3:16:20 PM): The loss of life was too huge
IndyPacers67 (3:16:23 PM): The cause was failing
IndyPacers67 (3:16:32 PM): It was never going to work, ever.
Randy 84 Ratio (3:16:33 PM): It was a lot of loss of life
Randy 84 Ratio (3:16:38 PM): But we would have won, at a great cost
Randy 84 Ratio (3:16:55 PM): you know me
IndyPacers67 (3:16:58 PM): The reason we pulled out was because we COULDN'T win.
Randy 84 Ratio (3:16:58 PM): I don't give up until it's over
Randy 84 Ratio (3:17:10 PM): The reason we pulled out is because the Americans THOUGHT we couldn't win
IndyPacers67 (3:17:17 PM): haha we're going in circles
Randy 84 Ratio (3:17:27 PM): We were losing lives
Randy 84 Ratio (3:17:34 PM): But we were winning
Randy 84 Ratio (3:17:51 PM): That's why I get upset at people
Randy 84 Ratio (3:17:55 PM): Like "people are dying!"
Randy 84 Ratio (3:17:57 PM): ITS A FUCKING WAR
Randy 84 Ratio (3:18:00 PM): That's what happens
IndyPacers67 (3:18:17 PM): There you go
IndyPacers67 (3:18:20 PM): If you want to say that
IndyPacers67 (3:18:27 PM): Don't go crying over 19 people dead in Bali
IndyPacers67 (3:18:32 PM): Its a fucking war
Randy 84 Ratio (3:18:37 PM): There is a difference
IndyPacers67 (3:18:41 PM): No difference at all.
Randy 84 Ratio (3:18:52 PM): Those were 19 innocent lives there weren't "on the battle field"
Randy 84 Ratio (3:19:00 PM): Those were soldiers dying
Randy 84 Ratio (3:19:05 PM): or civilians in the middle of the fight
IndyPacers67 (3:19:14 PM): And people in their homes who are dragged out and killed in Iraq are on the battle field?
Randy 84 Ratio (3:19:34 PM): Do you think American troops raid houses and just shoot anyone in there?
Randy 84 Ratio (3:19:40 PM): Honestly, do you think that?
IndyPacers67 (3:19:50 PM): Not all troops, but yes that does happen.
IndyPacers67 (3:19:56 PM): And they claim they don't know who the enemy is
Randy 84 Ratio (3:19:58 PM): You should talk to my friend's brother, he could give you good insight on what really happens in Iraq
IndyPacers67 (3:20:01 PM): It happened in Vietnam too
IndyPacers67 (3:20:08 PM): I should talk to my friend who I talked to yesterday
Randy 84 Ratio (3:20:08 PM): Believe it or not, that could be the truth
IndyPacers67 (3:20:11 PM): Who had to do it himself
Randy 84 Ratio (3:20:24 PM): You don't know who the enemy is over there
Randy 84 Ratio (3:20:33 PM): You raid a house, they have a bunch of weapons in there and they make a false move
Randy 84 Ratio (3:20:52 PM): sometimes you think yo have to make a quick move to save your life and your fellow soldier lives
IndyPacers67 (3:21:07 PM): My friend told me he was talking to another soldier that told him there really are no rules. You can do whatever the hell you want, and say you don't know who the enemy
IndyPacers67 (3:21:15 PM): There are no rules of war
IndyPacers67 (3:21:20 PM): For the Americans
IndyPacers67 (3:21:39 PM): Its only the media friendly things like trading pictures for porn and the abu gharib things that get out there
IndyPacers67 (3:21:45 PM): Because its always been the way america fights wars
IndyPacers67 (3:21:50 PM): You kill whoever you want
Randy 84 Ratio (3:21:55 PM): Not so
IndyPacers67 (3:21:58 PM): That's why there is no official body count in Iraq for this war
Randy 84 Ratio (3:22:17 PM): There is no offical body count because there is no way to find out all the bodies
Randy 84 Ratio (3:22:34 PM): They have strict orders not to shoot unless being shot at first
Randy 84 Ratio (3:22:43 PM): Especially while on Patrol
IndyPacers67 (3:22:46 PM): No they don't
Randy 84 Ratio (3:22:49 PM): Yes, they do
Randy 84 Ratio (3:22:59 PM): You can't fire unless you were fired at
IndyPacers67 (3:23:02 PM): Those orders aren't inforced
Randy 84 Ratio (3:23:19 PM): If someone reports it to the Army it will be enforced
IndyPacers67 (3:23:22 PM): I hate to tell you, but they arent.
Randy 84 Ratio (3:23:25 PM): If it doesn't get reported, then it won't be
IndyPacers67 (3:23:28 PM): But it isn't enforced
Randy 84 Ratio (3:23:38 PM): A soldier would have to report it
Randy 84 Ratio (3:23:56 PM): And since when were there "rules of war"
IndyPacers67 (3:24:05 PM): The geneva convention
Randy 84 Ratio (3:24:10 PM): War is barbaric (spell?)
IndyPacers67 (3:24:21 PM): Then don't complain about the terrorists
Randy 84 Ratio (3:24:25 PM): lol
Randy 84 Ratio (3:24:29 PM): So you think terrorism is ok?
Randy 84 Ratio (3:24:32 PM): We can live with it?
Randy 84 Ratio (3:24:37 PM): You aren't threatened by them?
IndyPacers67 (3:24:41 PM): They are fighting a war, so barabrics are ok
Randy 84 Ratio (3:24:46 PM): They could blow you up because they don't like you
IndyPacers67 (3:24:55 PM): Of course I'm against terrorism
Randy 84 Ratio (3:25:04 PM): hijacking a plane and flying it into a building is a little insane
IndyPacers67 (3:25:07 PM): But I know that the U.S. isn't going to go save the world
IndyPacers67 (3:25:17 PM): So is emptying clips at innocent people
Randy 84 Ratio (3:25:26 PM): That isn't the American way
Randy 84 Ratio (3:25:31 PM): Those soldiers are bad soldiesr
Randy 84 Ratio (3:25:34 PM): Bottom line.
IndyPacers67 (3:25:39 PM): We create terrorism more then we destroy it.
Randy 84 Ratio (3:25:45 PM): I disagree
Randy 84 Ratio (3:25:52 PM): The terrorists are FIGHTING BACK MORE
IndyPacers67 (3:25:53 PM): I know you do
Randy 84 Ratio (3:26:00 PM): If that's what you mean
Randy 84 Ratio (3:26:10 PM): More attacks, but that doesn't mean there are more indivdual terrorists
Randy 84 Ratio (3:26:17 PM): We have shut down a lot of camps and recruitment places
Randy 84 Ratio (3:26:20 PM): captured leaders
Randy 84 Ratio (3:26:25 PM): captured future attack plans
Randy 84 Ratio (3:26:29 PM): Whether they were going to be used or not
Randy 84 Ratio (3:03:50 PM): We can continue our debate
IndyPacers67 (3:04:10 PM): Did you read my last part?
Randy 84 Ratio (3:04:15 PM): nope
Randy 84 Ratio (3:04:21 PM): computer had to restart
IndyPacers67 (3:04:47 PM): IndyPacers67 (3:00:22 PM): To say the Al Queda orgnanization had absolutley no justification for what they did is totally stupid. They had a reason to do it
IndyPacers67 (3:01:19 PM): They were fighting back
IndyPacers67 (3:04:51 PM): IndyPacers67 (3:01:21 PM): We were the agressors
IndyPacers67 (3:01:33 PM): That's not to say their actions were correct
IndyPacers67 (3:04:54 PM): IndyPacers67 (3:01:54 PM): And we are wrong for fighting a war in which 10 times as many civillians are killed
IndyPacers67 (3:01:57 PM): At our hands
Randy 84 Ratio (3:05:11 PM): I disagree
Randy 84 Ratio (3:05:19 PM): Sure, they think they have reasons
Randy 84 Ratio (3:05:22 PM): I think those reasons ar ebullshit
Randy 84 Ratio (3:05:28 PM): And we're fighting to save life
Randy 84 Ratio (3:05:34 PM): We're killing to save life, if that makes any sense
Randy 84 Ratio (3:05:43 PM): If we didn't do anything, they would kill more lives over time
Randy 84 Ratio (3:05:49 PM): INNOCENT lives
IndyPacers67 (3:05:55 PM): They are fighting to maintain their culture and their lifestyle
Randy 84 Ratio (3:06:03 PM): lol that's not what we're fighitng for
Randy 84 Ratio (3:06:10 PM): They aren't fighting to keep their culture
IndyPacers67 (3:06:14 PM): They don't want western influence and capitalism
Randy 84 Ratio (3:06:22 PM): We're in the middle-east (before 9/11) because they couldn't live together in peace
IndyPacers67 (3:06:35 PM): That's not true
Randy 84 Ratio (3:06:36 PM): If they didn't want America in the middle-east they should ahve settled their differences with the jews
Randy 84 Ratio (3:06:47 PM): But there was too much fighting for too long of time
IndyPacers67 (3:07:04 PM): I blame the jews for that, but that's a whole different argument
Randy 84 Ratio (3:07:15 PM): lol I hate jews
Randy 84 Ratio (3:07:52 PM): Of course they think they are right
Randy 84 Ratio (3:07:56 PM): That's how all wars happen
Randy 84 Ratio (3:08:00 PM): Both sides think they are right
Randy 84 Ratio (3:08:17 PM): They believe in what they are fighting for
Randy 84 Ratio (3:08:21 PM): I believe we are fighting for peace
Randy 84 Ratio (3:08:28 PM): In this case, war was the only answer
IndyPacers67 (3:08:43 PM): I don't think you can say you are fighting for peace when you have killed so many more people then the enemy has
Randy 84 Ratio (3:08:56 PM): lol that's not the point
Randy 84 Ratio (3:09:07 PM): "killed sdo many more people than the enemy has"
IndyPacers67 (3:09:09 PM): If America's beliefs are so great, then how come we can't win this war without the massive loss of life
Randy 84 Ratio (3:09:18 PM): The difference between the two are simple
Randy 84 Ratio (3:09:24 PM): America is invading their place
Randy 84 Ratio (3:09:33 PM): America is fighting in a distant place
Randy 84 Ratio (3:09:37 PM): An unkown region
Randy 84 Ratio (3:09:40 PM): Trying to find them
IndyPacers67 (3:09:52 PM): Trying to find who?
Randy 84 Ratio (3:09:52 PM): If the roles were reversed it would be the same
Randy 84 Ratio (3:09:55 PM): Thet errorists
Randy 84 Ratio (3:10:00 PM): It's easier to hide than to find
IndyPacers67 (3:10:18 PM): Its not like you can kill off terrorists though
IndyPacers67 (3:10:21 PM): You can't be that naive
Randy 84 Ratio (3:10:29 PM): So we shouldn't try?
IndyPacers67 (3:10:36 PM): You find a group and destroy it, it will make more people mad.
Randy 84 Ratio (3:10:37 PM): Let them just get bigger and richer?
Randy 84 Ratio (3:10:42 PM): They are already mad
IndyPacers67 (3:10:43 PM): No, because its a non-winnable war
Randy 84 Ratio (3:10:49 PM): non-winnable war?
Randy 84 Ratio (3:10:53 PM): It's a war
Randy 84 Ratio (3:10:56 PM): They declared war on us
Randy 84 Ratio (3:11:02 PM): It has to be winnable, or we lose
IndyPacers67 (3:11:04 PM): I know they are mad, and even with the huge loss of life, terrorism still exsists even more so then before
IndyPacers67 (3:11:13 PM): And we WILL lose!
Randy 84 Ratio (3:11:18 PM): WE WILL NOT LOSE
Randy 84 Ratio (3:11:19 PM): I promise
Randy 84 Ratio (3:11:28 PM): We will fight to the death
IndyPacers67 (3:11:28 PM): By fighting this war, we are creating more strife and more terrorism
Randy 84 Ratio (3:11:29 PM): and I mean it
Randy 84 Ratio (3:11:36 PM): We do not give up
Randy 84 Ratio (3:11:38 PM): We do not give in
IndyPacers67 (3:11:40 PM): It doesn't matter Riot
Randy 84 Ratio (3:11:41 PM): The terrorists WILL LOSE
Randy 84 Ratio (3:11:48 PM): And the world will be a better place
IndyPacers67 (3:11:54 PM): You can spew all that shit all you want, but there will continue to be more and more people fighting back
IndyPacers67 (3:11:59 PM): They have the same mentality you do
Randy 84 Ratio (3:12:07 PM): THat's great
Randy 84 Ratio (3:12:08 PM): bring it on
IndyPacers67 (3:12:11 PM): They clearly don't fear death
Randy 84 Ratio (3:12:14 PM): We have something they don't have
IndyPacers67 (3:12:23 PM): What money?
IndyPacers67 (3:12:26 PM): Doesn't matter
Randy 84 Ratio (3:12:39 PM): money, technology, skill, training
IndyPacers67 (3:12:48 PM): It doesn't matter
Randy 84 Ratio (3:12:48 PM): They can't fight in a true war
Randy 84 Ratio (3:12:55 PM): They have to result to bombing innocents
IndyPacers67 (3:12:57 PM): They hate the american culture so much, they will never give in
Randy 84 Ratio (3:12:58 PM): They attack and hide
Randy 84 Ratio (3:13:10 PM): And we hate the terrorist culture so much, we'll never give in
IndyPacers67 (3:13:24 PM): Yes we will
Randy 84 Ratio (3:13:31 PM): It maybe "spewing garbage" but hey, it's a noble cause and it's a cause that will be won by the worthy
IndyPacers67 (3:13:37 PM): I guarentee you so many people said the same thing about Vietnam
Randy 84 Ratio (3:13:45 PM): We didn't lose Vietnam
IndyPacers67 (3:14:11 PM): Oh really? Is that why communism grew to an even greater height after we pulled out?
Randy 84 Ratio (3:14:20 PM): That's the thing
Randy 84 Ratio (3:14:22 PM): We pulled out
Randy 84 Ratio (3:14:25 PM): We shouldn't have pulled out
IndyPacers67 (3:14:34 PM): We pulled out because we were going to lose
Randy 84 Ratio (3:14:35 PM): We lost the war politically
IndyPacers67 (3:14:40 PM): Because the loss of life was too huge
Randy 84 Ratio (3:14:43 PM): We never lost one military engagement
IndyPacers67 (3:14:46 PM): The war was losing support
Randy 84 Ratio (3:14:47 PM): We never lost ONE BATTLE
IndyPacers67 (3:14:50 PM): Just like this war will
IndyPacers67 (3:14:57 PM): Its not about BATTLES RIOT!
Randy 84 Ratio (3:15:13 PM): We would have eventually won
IndyPacers67 (3:15:23 PM): Nope
IndyPacers67 (3:15:31 PM): Absolutley not
Randy 84 Ratio (3:15:33 PM): Yes
IndyPacers67 (3:15:33 PM): Because like you said
IndyPacers67 (3:15:47 PM): We will fight to the death
IndyPacers67 (3:15:49 PM): We were dead
IndyPacers67 (3:15:51 PM): The cause was dead
Randy 84 Ratio (3:16:00 PM): We lost the war at home
IndyPacers67 (3:16:02 PM): The same thing will happen with the war on terrorism and in Iraq
Randy 84 Ratio (3:16:03 PM): We lost support
Randy 84 Ratio (3:16:05 PM): And we had to pull out
IndyPacers67 (3:16:07 PM): Rightfully so
Randy 84 Ratio (3:16:10 PM): No
IndyPacers67 (3:16:12 PM): It was a total disaster
IndyPacers67 (3:16:20 PM): The loss of life was too huge
IndyPacers67 (3:16:23 PM): The cause was failing
IndyPacers67 (3:16:32 PM): It was never going to work, ever.
Randy 84 Ratio (3:16:33 PM): It was a lot of loss of life
Randy 84 Ratio (3:16:38 PM): But we would have won, at a great cost
Randy 84 Ratio (3:16:55 PM): you know me
IndyPacers67 (3:16:58 PM): The reason we pulled out was because we COULDN'T win.
Randy 84 Ratio (3:16:58 PM): I don't give up until it's over
Randy 84 Ratio (3:17:10 PM): The reason we pulled out is because the Americans THOUGHT we couldn't win
IndyPacers67 (3:17:17 PM): haha we're going in circles
Randy 84 Ratio (3:17:27 PM): We were losing lives
Randy 84 Ratio (3:17:34 PM): But we were winning
Randy 84 Ratio (3:17:51 PM): That's why I get upset at people
Randy 84 Ratio (3:17:55 PM): Like "people are dying!"
Randy 84 Ratio (3:17:57 PM): ITS A FUCKING WAR
Randy 84 Ratio (3:18:00 PM): That's what happens
IndyPacers67 (3:18:17 PM): There you go
IndyPacers67 (3:18:20 PM): If you want to say that
IndyPacers67 (3:18:27 PM): Don't go crying over 19 people dead in Bali
IndyPacers67 (3:18:32 PM): Its a fucking war
Randy 84 Ratio (3:18:37 PM): There is a difference
IndyPacers67 (3:18:41 PM): No difference at all.
Randy 84 Ratio (3:18:52 PM): Those were 19 innocent lives there weren't "on the battle field"
Randy 84 Ratio (3:19:00 PM): Those were soldiers dying
Randy 84 Ratio (3:19:05 PM): or civilians in the middle of the fight
IndyPacers67 (3:19:14 PM): And people in their homes who are dragged out and killed in Iraq are on the battle field?
Randy 84 Ratio (3:19:34 PM): Do you think American troops raid houses and just shoot anyone in there?
Randy 84 Ratio (3:19:40 PM): Honestly, do you think that?
IndyPacers67 (3:19:50 PM): Not all troops, but yes that does happen.
IndyPacers67 (3:19:56 PM): And they claim they don't know who the enemy is
Randy 84 Ratio (3:19:58 PM): You should talk to my friend's brother, he could give you good insight on what really happens in Iraq
IndyPacers67 (3:20:01 PM): It happened in Vietnam too
IndyPacers67 (3:20:08 PM): I should talk to my friend who I talked to yesterday
Randy 84 Ratio (3:20:08 PM): Believe it or not, that could be the truth
IndyPacers67 (3:20:11 PM): Who had to do it himself
Randy 84 Ratio (3:20:24 PM): You don't know who the enemy is over there
Randy 84 Ratio (3:20:33 PM): You raid a house, they have a bunch of weapons in there and they make a false move
Randy 84 Ratio (3:20:52 PM): sometimes you think yo have to make a quick move to save your life and your fellow soldier lives
IndyPacers67 (3:21:07 PM): My friend told me he was talking to another soldier that told him there really are no rules. You can do whatever the hell you want, and say you don't know who the enemy
IndyPacers67 (3:21:15 PM): There are no rules of war
IndyPacers67 (3:21:20 PM): For the Americans
IndyPacers67 (3:21:39 PM): Its only the media friendly things like trading pictures for porn and the abu gharib things that get out there
IndyPacers67 (3:21:45 PM): Because its always been the way america fights wars
IndyPacers67 (3:21:50 PM): You kill whoever you want
Randy 84 Ratio (3:21:55 PM): Not so
IndyPacers67 (3:21:58 PM): That's why there is no official body count in Iraq for this war
Randy 84 Ratio (3:22:17 PM): There is no offical body count because there is no way to find out all the bodies
Randy 84 Ratio (3:22:34 PM): They have strict orders not to shoot unless being shot at first
Randy 84 Ratio (3:22:43 PM): Especially while on Patrol
IndyPacers67 (3:22:46 PM): No they don't
Randy 84 Ratio (3:22:49 PM): Yes, they do
Randy 84 Ratio (3:22:59 PM): You can't fire unless you were fired at
IndyPacers67 (3:23:02 PM): Those orders aren't inforced
Randy 84 Ratio (3:23:19 PM): If someone reports it to the Army it will be enforced
IndyPacers67 (3:23:22 PM): I hate to tell you, but they arent.
Randy 84 Ratio (3:23:25 PM): If it doesn't get reported, then it won't be
IndyPacers67 (3:23:28 PM): But it isn't enforced
Randy 84 Ratio (3:23:38 PM): A soldier would have to report it
Randy 84 Ratio (3:23:56 PM): And since when were there "rules of war"
IndyPacers67 (3:24:05 PM): The geneva convention
Randy 84 Ratio (3:24:10 PM): War is barbaric (spell?)
IndyPacers67 (3:24:21 PM): Then don't complain about the terrorists
Randy 84 Ratio (3:24:25 PM): lol
Randy 84 Ratio (3:24:29 PM): So you think terrorism is ok?
Randy 84 Ratio (3:24:32 PM): We can live with it?
Randy 84 Ratio (3:24:37 PM): You aren't threatened by them?
IndyPacers67 (3:24:41 PM): They are fighting a war, so barabrics are ok
Randy 84 Ratio (3:24:46 PM): They could blow you up because they don't like you
IndyPacers67 (3:24:55 PM): Of course I'm against terrorism
Randy 84 Ratio (3:25:04 PM): hijacking a plane and flying it into a building is a little insane
IndyPacers67 (3:25:07 PM): But I know that the U.S. isn't going to go save the world
IndyPacers67 (3:25:17 PM): So is emptying clips at innocent people
Randy 84 Ratio (3:25:26 PM): That isn't the American way
Randy 84 Ratio (3:25:31 PM): Those soldiers are bad soldiesr
Randy 84 Ratio (3:25:34 PM): Bottom line.
IndyPacers67 (3:25:39 PM): We create terrorism more then we destroy it.
Randy 84 Ratio (3:25:45 PM): I disagree
Randy 84 Ratio (3:25:52 PM): The terrorists are FIGHTING BACK MORE
IndyPacers67 (3:25:53 PM): I know you do
Randy 84 Ratio (3:26:00 PM): If that's what you mean
Randy 84 Ratio (3:26:10 PM): More attacks, but that doesn't mean there are more indivdual terrorists
Randy 84 Ratio (3:26:17 PM): We have shut down a lot of camps and recruitment places
Randy 84 Ratio (3:26:20 PM): captured leaders
Randy 84 Ratio (3:26:25 PM): captured future attack plans
Randy 84 Ratio (3:26:29 PM): Whether they were going to be used or not
Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:29 am
Terrorism: The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.
Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:34 am
Riot wrote: And those deaths that were caused by the American army, were simply accidents of war.
A story of two pilots on a bomber plane.
"Think those terrorists are in there?"
"Yeah sure, why not?"
"DIE BAGHDAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
"YEEEAAAAHHHH!!!! DIE COCKSUCKERS!!!!!!!!"
"Oops, shit, I think the entire building just collapsed."
"Ah whatever, it was an accident."
"Yeah, an accident."
200 innocent civilians and 0 terrorists died in the building. 29 800 died in several separate "accidents" by the end of the war.
So much for the smart missles
IndyPacers67 (2:59:38 PM): They attacked us because we have been attacking them since the early 90s
Can you elaborate on that pls?
Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:39 am
I like I told Indy, those soldiers who do kill innocents are not carrying out the American way.
However, you weren't there you don't know if that conversation is correct or false. The only people who know are the people who were there.
Kind of like the Saddam capture thing. That one marine claims that it was staged but the US Army points out a bunch of information he gave and proved it false. So can you say for sure Saddam was captured in the spider-hole? No. But you have a pretty good idea.
However, you weren't there you don't know if that conversation is correct or false. The only people who know are the people who were there.
Kind of like the Saddam capture thing. That one marine claims that it was staged but the US Army points out a bunch of information he gave and proved it false. So can you say for sure Saddam was captured in the spider-hole? No. But you have a pretty good idea.
Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:15 am
@ "American way"
I ate some bacon today, but it wasn't good, therefore it wasn't done the Canadian way. In other words, what the hell do you mean by the American way?
Even if I made up that little conversation, having 30 000 innocent civilians killed in the face of smart missle technology within a year is a little too much. Even though Michael Moore can present things at the extreme, it just reminds me of Fahrenheit 9/11 with those moronic soldiers.
Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:33 am
You guys make some great points, no doubts about it. However, it is a war and when you invade a country civilian lives will be lost. You are fighting war in the streets of Iraq where people live. For those extreme cases where soldiers decide to kill someone just to kill them that is wrong.
What is the "American way" you ask. The "American way" is democracy for all and everyone should be treated equal.
Greats point are being thrown at each from both sides. But that is excatly what a war is. Both sides think they are right and both sides think the other is wrong. It's up to you guys to decide what side you are on.
Just remember this: power=legality in the world.
What is the "American way" you ask. The "American way" is democracy for all and everyone should be treated equal.
Greats point are being thrown at each from both sides. But that is excatly what a war is. Both sides think they are right and both sides think the other is wrong. It's up to you guys to decide what side you are on.
Just remember this: power=legality in the world.
Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:32 am
No they dont. They make no points, its just open criticism. Its one thing to criticise when you offer an alternative. Its another to criticise and offer no alternative.
Its strange how I cant find a (credible) source that actually says there has been 30,000 civillian fatalities in iraq. Its also quite strange how you fail to point out the millions that Sadaam killed in Iraq.
And even if there was 30,000 deaths in Iraq (which i highly doubt), how many people died in the American Civil war? More than 30,000. And I wonder how many of the 30,000 are actually dead becuase of America (and other countries, its not just america in there) or the terrorists. Remember, its terroroists that indiscriminate in their attacks. Look at what happened in 9/11, russia, bali.. they targeted civillians.
I dont see you making a thread about the dead in Iraq. All I see is you comming into this thread and criticising people for grieving the dead in Bali. You shouldn't try to make everything political.
As for posting your convo with riot, you are only trying to serve yourself. "oh look at me, I had a long debate with Riot on AIM, I'm so smart. George bush suxors. He hates black people."
But I think this part of your convo summed it up the best: "To say the Al Queda orgnanization had absolutley no justification for what they did is totally stupid. They had a reason to do it "
They no justification to hijack plans and kill 3,000 innocent civillans on their way to work. People were on their way to work, families were on holidays.. people who had nothing to do with the middle east. And they had a "reason"? Whats this "reason"? "George Bush is a dumbfuck, ha ha ha"? The only "reason" they had was they wanted to start world war 4 with it, Christians Vs Muslims. of course that didnt happen. The coalition went into Afganistan and have since restricted the operations of Al Queda. This is not opinion. This is fact.
Yeah laugh it up. Whats the canadian way again? Eating bacon as you said? Thats something to be real proud of. Maybe the real Canadian way is to sit on your hands when a crisis emerges, then criticise america for attempting to solve that crisis, then sing your own praise.
Awesome.
You're right Riot. The 30,000 innocent civillians killed in Iraq is terrible. Why won't someone stop the United States sponsered terrorists called the military? It's terrible.
Its strange how I cant find a (credible) source that actually says there has been 30,000 civillian fatalities in iraq. Its also quite strange how you fail to point out the millions that Sadaam killed in Iraq.
And even if there was 30,000 deaths in Iraq (which i highly doubt), how many people died in the American Civil war? More than 30,000. And I wonder how many of the 30,000 are actually dead becuase of America (and other countries, its not just america in there) or the terrorists. Remember, its terroroists that indiscriminate in their attacks. Look at what happened in 9/11, russia, bali.. they targeted civillians.
But of course, the 19 people dead in Bali is much worse. I'm not trying to condone these actions, but people who cry about 19 dead and try to justify 30,000 dead are just flat out stupid.
I dont see you making a thread about the dead in Iraq. All I see is you comming into this thread and criticising people for grieving the dead in Bali. You shouldn't try to make everything political.
As for posting your convo with riot, you are only trying to serve yourself. "oh look at me, I had a long debate with Riot on AIM, I'm so smart. George bush suxors. He hates black people."
But I think this part of your convo summed it up the best: "To say the Al Queda orgnanization had absolutley no justification for what they did is totally stupid. They had a reason to do it "
They no justification to hijack plans and kill 3,000 innocent civillans on their way to work. People were on their way to work, families were on holidays.. people who had nothing to do with the middle east. And they had a "reason"? Whats this "reason"? "George Bush is a dumbfuck, ha ha ha"? The only "reason" they had was they wanted to start world war 4 with it, Christians Vs Muslims. of course that didnt happen. The coalition went into Afganistan and have since restricted the operations of Al Queda. This is not opinion. This is fact.
Laughing @ "American way"
Yeah laugh it up. Whats the canadian way again? Eating bacon as you said? Thats something to be real proud of. Maybe the real Canadian way is to sit on your hands when a crisis emerges, then criticise america for attempting to solve that crisis, then sing your own praise.
Awesome.
Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:07 am
Matthew wrote:Laughing @ "American way"
Yeah laugh it up. Whats the canadian way again? Eating bacon as you said? Thats something to be real proud of. Maybe the real Canadian way is to sit on your hands when a crisis emerges, then criticise america for attempting to solve that crisis, then sing your own praise.
I'm sorry, but I just find the statement "the American way" sounding a little too much like "patriotic bullshit."
As Riot has defined it, "The 'American way' is democracy for all and everyone should be treated equal." That's great. Why not call it "the Humanistic way," or "equality for all," or even "the Canadian way" (as I recall, we are also a democratic and tolerant nation, though I'd cringe if I see that statement.) Spare me the propaganda.
Our province of Alberta recently gave away $4 million to Katrina, when that money could be used for, oh, I don't know, the natural disaster crisis in the maritime provinces that went largely unnoticed. We should've just sat on our hands and maybe focus a little bit more on our country.
By the way, the bacon reference was just a tongue-in-cheek example to the absurdity of the so-called "American way."
Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:16 am
The humanistic way? Maybe I didn't use that because a lot of humans don't think that way.
The American way and the Canadian way are completely different. Canada may believe in democracy and everyone being treated equal, but America actually puts it's plan into action. America stands up for the people without a voice. America is the first and only country people come running to when they need help. That's the American way, helping out your neighbors even if you don't know who they are.
The American way and the Canadian way are completely different. Canada may believe in democracy and everyone being treated equal, but America actually puts it's plan into action. America stands up for the people without a voice. America is the first and only country people come running to when they need help. That's the American way, helping out your neighbors even if you don't know who they are.
Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:07 am
That is, if it benefits them in the long run in terms of economic, political, or diplomatic advantage(s).
Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:32 am
Randy 84 Ratio (3:11:18 PM): WE WILL NOT LOSE
Randy 84 Ratio (3:11:19 PM): I promise
Randy 84 Ratio (3:11:28 PM): We will fight to the death
Randy 84 Ratio (3:11:29 PM): and I mean it
Randy 84 Ratio (3:11:36 PM): We do not give up
Randy 84 Ratio (3:11:38 PM): We do not give in
Randy 84 Ratio (3:11:41 PM): The terrorists WILL LOSE
were veins popping out of your neck at this point? Please say yes 
Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:38 am
bad news. intelligence reports says the philippines is the next target, oh well if i exploded somehwere in some crowded places i'll let you guys know 