Mass Debate: Team Darko vs Team Yinka

So we are suppose to give babies to foster familes everytime the parent doesn't want her kid because she made a mistake or was raped? You do know that Foster Homes are overpopulated as it is, now you are just adding even more kids and the situation worsens.

what if the parent is ready to be a parent that he blames the child for ruining his life

I'm not sure what you mean here

lol, i guess that's for me. i think that's a typo. i meant NOT READY...

carry on...

go darko...

Null. I get it now

So we are suppose to give babies to foster familes everytime the parent doesn't want her kid because she made a mistake or was raped? You do know that Foster Homes are overpopulated as it is, now you are just adding even more kids and the situation worsens.

So what do you want to do?? Kill the baby??

They can give it to foster parents. There are a lot of families willing to take a baby. Families that can't have children on their own

- Think about how many children end up in foster homes and how little families pick them up... as Riot said.... ^

don't. He's so American, and Americans help other countries, right? Why don't they (and everybody) send some people to teach africans what can happen if they have sex with little girls??

- I read that most of the Africans are so superstitious and 'religious' that they dont accept any western help or teachigns... its hard to enforce what they want to teach those people because alot dont listen... And its not like they havent tried

People that live in the worst conditions when they're kids usually are strongest when they grow up

- Must disagree with that... teen suicide is on the rise apparently.. why? The home they live in isnt exactly the best environment to grow up in, it is true that alot of kids live up in the 'hood' and endure hard times but alot of the time they turn to drugs and stuff. And most of the kids who grow up to be successful only struggle financially to get by... the kids im talking about are kids being abused physically by their parents

What the point of having sex? To have kids!!! I know, I know, for some fun...but probably you can do other things to get an orgasm and be safe.

- Right... as long as u do it the right way its ok right??? But theres still a small chance it wont protect u...

Ur main point is that u've already done the mistake but why kill the kid u created??? Think about the parents, kid and their futures. You're just screwing them up for life.... how can u live with urself? Soon the world become a worse place because many kids are being raised poorly and we will have crazy babies all over the place.

And if someone does get an abortion... would u send them to jail with murder???

So we are suppose to give babies to foster familes everytime the parent doesn't want her kid because she made a mistake or was raped? You do know that Foster Homes are overpopulated as it is, now you are just adding even more kids and the situation worsens.

- Exactly and the foster hoems will struggle too to cope with the kids... there will be too many of them. Not just will the Foster homes not cope but the government wont. Taxes will go zooming and the economy will start to fall. The standard of living for whole economies will plummet... Trust me, we will go into a very rapid recession... it wont be too nice


Sit - Go team!

So what do you want to do?? Kill the baby??

It depends on what is reasonable in the best interests of all parties. If they cant provide the child's right to a healthy life growing up... the parent will be neglecting them. They wont be fulfilling their rights as a parent and give the rights the child holds. And in reasonable forseen circumstances an abortion is the smarter option.

If ur not ready for a kid, then ur not ready... u have a chocie give the kid a horrible horrible life or prvent it. Chacnes are that if the kid is born, they may suffer even more pain. Maybe it all turns out ok and the kid does well but ultimately the choice rests on the shoulders of the parents who wil and should choose for the best interests of the child.

If they know they wont cope with a kid... why give the Kid a horrid life to live????

No, you're killing the fetus. I don't even think it is the fetus yet. In some instances yes, but most women receive abortions soon after finding out that they're pregnant.

Stop saying that it's a baby. Killing babies is wrong. But that's not what's happening. It's pregnancies being terminated. You're clearly over-sentimentalizing it.

Mazz, you're statement was regarding all abortions. Rape victims lies within all abotions so essentially, you were calling rape victims who become pregnant stupid.

Also, the more crazy kids you have the more school shootings you get!

Unfortunately there's no agreement in medicine, philosophy or theology as to when life really begins, let alone what stage of foetal development should be associated with the right to life.

That isn't surprising, because the idea that there is a precise moment when a foetus gets the right to live, which it didn't have a few moments earlier feels very strange.

And when you look closely at each of the suggested dates, they do seem either arbitrary or not precise enough to decide whether the unborn should have the right to live.

Even medicine is unsure on the point of when afoetus is actually a human life...

Yes! Because school shootings result from teen depression.. kids who ar ein hostile homes become depressed and think of stupid ways to get out of the situation!

And, what other ways of punishing that people?? Have in their conscience (sp?) that they killed somebody??

- Yes, they will become guilty and teach others not to do what tehy did! One of the main ideas of why the legal system is around is prevvention.. preventing others from commiting what is wrong.

What's the "right" circumstance?? Getting raped?? That's probably the only valid point in your whole argument.

- Rape
- Birth Defects
- accidental pregnancy
- danger to mother's health

Just to name four...

The human embryo is not an infant because they are just in a prehuman stage... it is more primitive than a frog or a fish... The embryo can turn into an infant at the mother's choice. They are only a potential human being and therefore destroying the embryo does not constitute to murder!

- Think about how many children end up in foster homes and how little families pick them up... as Riot said.... ^

How many? Give me a number, I seriously can't imagine.

- I read that most of the Africans are so superstitious and 'religious' that they dont accept any western help or teachigns... its hard to enforce what they want to teach those people because alot dont listen... And its not like they havent tried

It's not the point of the thread. We went from abortion to Africa and AIDS. They don't do abortions, don't they??

- Must disagree with that... teen suicide is on the rise apparently.. why? The home they live in isnt exactly the best environment to grow up in, it is true that alot of kids live up in the 'hood' and endure hard times but alot of the time they turn to drugs and stuff. And most of the kids who grow up to be successful only struggle financially to get by... the kids im talking about are kids being abused physically by their parents

And the reasons are that they didn't get aborted 'cause their parents weren't ready, or made a mistake??
Also, drugs happend everywhere. Rich families, poor families, it's not like having just the mother will turn you into a drug dealer or commit suicide.

Ur main point is that u've already done the mistake but why kill the kid u created??? Think about the parents, kid and their futures. You're just screwing them up for life.... how can u live with urself? Soon the world become a worse place because many kids are being raised poorly and we will have crazy babies all over the place.

I'm in no way screwing them up for life. They screwed themselves.

And if someone does get an abortion... would u send them to jail with murder???

I'm not a cop or anything, but they commited murder of a human life. If they don't get to jail, they will still live with the thought of killing a future person.

- Exactly and the foster hoems will struggle too to cope with the kids... there will be too many of them. Not just will the Foster homes not cope but the government wont. Taxes will go zooming and the economy will start to fall. The standard of living for whole economies will plummet... Trust me, we will go into a very rapid recession... it wont be too nice

C'mon man, abortion is a way to mantain the economy??

Man, why do you post when I'm making my post?

It depends on what is reasonable in the best interests of all parties. If they cant provide the child's right to a healthy life growing up... the parent will be neglecting them. They wont be fulfilling their rights as a parent and give the rights the child holds. And in reasonable forseen circumstances an abortion is the smarter option.

It's probably the best interest for the parents, not the future kid. They made something, and now they just want to take it back, by killing their creature.
If they can't fulfill their rights as parents, they should give it to somebody else who will. It's not that hard, right?

If ur not ready for a kid, then ur not ready... u have a chocie give the kid a horrible horrible life or prvent it.

Thanks for proving my point. They can prevent it

If they know they wont cope with a kid... why give the Kid a horrid life to live????

If they know they won't cope with a kid, why risk themselves?? They'll be avoinding a lot of shit.

No, you're killing the fetus. I don't even think it is the fetus yet. In some instances yes, but most women receive abortions soon after finding out that they're pregnant.

Stop saying that it's a baby. Killing babies is wrong. But that's not what's happening. It's pregnancies being terminated. You're clearly over-sentimentalizing it.

OK, it's not a baby, but it's still a human life. And then, a future baby.

Also, the more crazy kids you have the more school shootings you get!

Shouldn't that be the fault of their parents, for not knowing what their kids feel like?? I don't know how that relates to abortion

Yes! Because school shootings result from teen depression.. kids who ar ein hostile homes become depressed and think of stupid ways to get out of the situation!

Again, not true. Well, the first part is true. But it could be for many reasons. Maybe they listen to Marilyn Manson (:crazy:), their parents got divorced, etc...

Even medicine is unsure on the point of when afoetus is actually a human life...

Is a human organism! Thaat should be enough:

Shortly after conception, a unique DNA code is formed which will remain unchanged through the life of the fetus, and after birth. Scientists define this event as the start of a human organism -- of human life. The presence of a unique human DNA code also signals the start of a human person.

- Yes, they will become guilty and teach others not to do what tehy did! One of the main ideas of why the legal system is around is prevvention.. preventing others from commiting what is wrong.

If people aren't educated (like you say) how can they teach others??

- Rape
- Birth Defects
- accidental pregnancy
- danger to mother's health

Just to name four...

Rape is the only of the four that makes sense...Most of the parents of not-normal chlidrens love them a lot more than others.
Accidental pregnancy is already been discussed. Is an irresponsible thing, why should they get away with a inmoral thing??
Every pregnancy can be dangerous to a mother's health.

The human embryo is not an infant because they are just in a prehuman stage... it is more primitive than a frog or a fish... The embryo can turn into an infant at the mother's choice. They are only a potential human being and therefore destroying the embryo does not constitute to murder!

em·bry·o ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mbr-)
n. pl. em·bry·os

An organism in its early stages of development, especially before it has reached a distinctively recognizable form.
An organism at any time before full development, birth, or hatching.

The fertilized egg of a vertebrate animal following cleavage.
In humans, the prefetal product of conception from implantation through the eighth week of development.
Botany. The minute, rudimentary plant contained within a seed or an archegonium.
A rudimentary or beginning stage: “To its founding fathers, the European [Economic] Community was the embryo of the United States of Europe” (Economist).

If we go by your logic, then killing babies and kids also should be part of abortions. They're not fully grown-persons

If someone makes a mistake as big as getting pregnat they should have the choice if they want to continue the pregnacy. It is a choice and it is a right. You aren't killing a baby you are "terminating the pregnacy".

Also, you guys really act like putting all these kids in bad situations and "punishing" the parents for having unprotected sex or getting drunk and having a great time is the right way to go. Since is suffering not only to an innocent woman but also an innocent baby a form of punishment? They can do what they want if they made a mistake they should be able to fix it, especially with the science we have today.

I just don't get how you guys can say things like "they made a mistake now they have to live with it" when it's just completely wrong. Mistakes happen and when someone doesn't have the money to support a child abortion must come into play.

Also, other countries do abortions but it's illegal in countries like India. However, women with 9 kids can't afford another kid so they do illegal abortions using COAT HANGERS because the woman is desperate to stay alive and to support the kids they already have. Some people don't want to give their kids to a foster home because either A. They had bad experiences with foster homes or B. they don't think the kid should live without a mom and dad.

So you guys may think it's wrong but that doesn't change the fact that some innocent women make mistakes and need to correct them. I have no problem with correcting mistakes when it's possible. After getting an abortion and going through all that (if she is a teenager, telling her parents) do you think she is going to have unprotected sex again? I don't think so.

Terminating the pregnancy is just a beautiful way of saying "eliminating the future human, the human life or organism.

No, it's not the right way to go, I agree there. They can give it to somebody else. I don't see a problem there. There are a lot of people willing to raise a child.

Abortion cost money too. If women use a coat hanger to abort, she's risking her life. Wouldn't it be better if she just gave the baby to somebody else who can take care of it??

So instead of giving up the kid they decide to terminate a life?? That's just a weird way of thinking, specially coming from a future Pope.

Of course is wrong. Terminating a life is very wrong. Innocent woman?? Unless she was living under a rock for 12+ years, she's well aware of the risks of having sex. Also, why should they correct a mistake if they could prevented it from happening??

lol because MISTAKES HAPPEN! And believe it or not, there are people who don't even know what a condom or birth control pill is! You can't just protect the educated, you have to protect the uneducated too as the government of the USA.

Also, in other countries THEY DON'T HAVE FOSTER HOMES and some people don't want to put their child in foster homes. Once again, it's a choice if they want to continue with the pregancy or not.

I still have a hard time believing you think everyone should be held accountable for their actions despite being naive and uneducated.

Shit happens; and as the government of the United States of America their job is to protect everyone...not just the educated.

You say there are a lot of people who are willing to take on babies, if that is the case why are foster homes overpopulated as it is?

Think if the foster houses are overpopulated its not gonna decrease our standard of the economy but also will encourage child smuggling which is illegal... this means crime will be rising and so on... please don't make our world a worse place when there are already too many problems to deal with!

lol because MISTAKES HAPPEN! And believe it or not, there are people who don't even know what a condom or birth control pill is! You can't just protect the educated, you have to protect the uneducated too as the government of the USA.

Why don't they also educate the uneducated? That would solve lots of problems.

Also, in other countries THEY DON'T HAVE FOSTER HOMES and some people don't want to put their child in foster homes. Once again, it's a choice if they want to continue with the pregancy or not.

How they won't want to put their childrens in foster homes and decide it's better to just kill it (your talking about a born person now). Once again, it was their choice in the begining to have sex. If you are uneducated, it was a "mistake", you just had fun, got drunk, whatever, abortion is not the only choice.

I still have a hard time believing you think everyone should be held accountable for their actions despite being naive and uneducated.

As I said, they can do other things besides doing abortion. They risk their lives more.

Shit happens; and as the government of the United States of America their job is to protect everyone...not just the educated.

Protect! Protect your future citizen. Shit happens, but there's always more than just one way to clean the mess.

You say there are a lot of people who are willing to take on babies, if that is the case why are foster homes overpopulated as it is?

'cause people are stupid! They do things without thinking of the risks. Also, the world is overpopulated as it is. Wouldn't it be better to have birth control??

Think if the foster houses are overpopulated its not gonna decrease our standard of the economy but also will encourage child smuggling which is illegal... this means crime will be rising and so on... please don't make our world a worse place when there are already too many problems to deal with!

If the kids got a good education, they wouldn't be in the position of smuggling. Countries (specially the richest) can do anything when they propose it. If it's their job to protect every citizen, why can't they do something for kids??

Last edited by Drex on Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

You are right, it's not the only choice. You just got to what our point is all along. They should have a chance to CHOICE. It's one of the choices, but nobody is forcing them to kill their baby.

It's a choice. Simple as that.

And sometimes the choice of abortion is the better option taking in all consideration of the circumstances.

Abortion is still the worst, inmoral choice. And that's what this is all about. It's not a moral thing to do.

Who decides what is moral or not? That's the real question. Because it's not in your beliefs? I thought this was a society that has many beliefs. The melting pot.

You can't just say it's not moral and then ban it, because that's not something the government should decide.

First of all, I don't have a religion. Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism and Chistianity all are against abortion. You tell me what's your religion.
The government should have a word on abortion. They have some power over the citizens. People just can't do wathever they want anytime.

sry guys, I have been in toronto for the past two days and completely forgot about this

There are hundreds of religions, those are the most popular ones. But it's just like bannin gay marriage, a lot of people thing it's not something the government should be able to choice.

Government should have some power, but when it comes to abortion it's a choice and it's up to the female if she doesn't want to have a kid or not.

If those are the most popular, wouldn't it mean that more people follow them??

It's not like banning gay marriage. If two people of the same sex want to get married, it doesn't risk the life of anybody.

But those women are putting their life in risk! Why don't you guys understand that? They're killing a part of themselves with abortion.