Jackal vs. Poor Little David

[J@3]

I think another reason for not locking this thread, is that it's probably one of the most interesting threads to appear on either forum in a few weeks now.

This is all really storm in a tea cup stuff. I mean at the .org forums I saw they were going to do a similar thing to what the NLSC is doing, this was pointed out by someone and David changed the idea to something else (the 'your story' kinda thing, which is also a very good idea) so why did this whole issue begin in the first place? Surely we could've just left it at 'well the NLSC have the reviews, .org has the stories and everyone is happy'. It might sound a bit strange coming from me of all people, but you don't need to fight over every single thing that you disagree with. I'm not directing that at anyone in particular, because it does take two (or more if you're the Aussieland thread) people to have an argument. Yes David was the instigator in the first place, but it did get carried on by other people so he's not entirely to blame for this whole event.

As far as this thread goes, to be perfectly honest with you I really don't know why it was started. To me it looked like it could've just been a reply in that 2005 General Issues thread, but for some reason a whole new topic was started purely for this argument. I guess it could give people a chance to get some things off their chest (something David and Jackal have obviously done) but I'm not going to start doing that, just purely because it'd cause more problems than it's worth. Not everyone can like each other and/or get along, not everyone can co-exist in the same environment but surely a group of people with a major similar interest (the NBA Live series) can co-exist in some form of civilised manner. I don't mean collaborating on different things together or whatever, we don't all have to hold hands and dance around like stoned gypsies but at least be able to run two sites without constantly sniping at each other either on the forums or on MSN.

The people who decided not to post here from .org, I really can't understand that. I'm not sure if those guys have noticed, but Andrew isn't the only member of the NLSC. I mean what do they think is going to happen? He'll lock all of your posts and edit anything you say? I think we all know that if that happened we'd have another version of the EG mini series starting up all over again. Yet again, I still don't understand why. I mean I have asked people why they or others don't post, and the word "hate" comes up alot (which I find ridiculous due to the fact that its the internet, but each to their own). There can't be any denial since the bigger split between .org/NLSC people have changed. Personality wise anyways. I don't give a shit what anyone says in their defense, or the defense of others... I've known these people for a long time and they weren't like that before.

I think the most interesting factor about this thread, is that the person who started it (Jackal) wasn't around when there was only really one site and we all managed to co-exist together without any of this kind of rubbish. I don't know, if he had been around back then whether he would've thought twice about starting this thread but either way, I'm not entirely sure any good can come from this. Oh, and for future reference... any of the "newer" guys who want to get themselves involved and trying to attack either Andrew or David should probably give that idea a miss. You haven't been here, you don't know the history first hand. So shut up. Um... yeah that's just for any of those guys thinking about joining in.

[Ataraxia]

*thinks hard n finds himself to be "newer" guy*

*takes a stapler n gets to work on his overgrown mouth*

*wonders if he should staple mouth or hands*

damn, i dont like these confusing stapling issues

[Jowe]

I heard that people at NLSC were calling the site "nbadead.org" etc.. etc..

That would have been Frank Castle, one time, trying to be funny. No one else as far as I know...

The thread has not been locked because in general the NLSC mods have tried to be more lenient, and have been so over the last few months.

Slamharder said it all the time. More then once.

[J@3]

Slam Harder's an idiot, no one listens to him anyway.

[Colin]

*thinks hard n finds himself to be "newer" guy*

*takes a stapler n gets to work on his overgrown mouth*

*wonders if he should staple mouth or hands*

damn, i dont like these confusing stapling issues

you're not funny.

damn, that post was too much like Rip for comfort.

[Ataraxia]

*thinks hard n finds himself to be "newer" guy*

*takes a stapler n gets to work on his overgrown mouth*

*wonders if he should staple mouth or hands*

damn, i dont like these confusing stapling issues

you're not funny.

damn, that post was too much like Rip for comfort.

I know im not, its not funny when ppl try n staple themselves , so I cant give u props for being smart

[Donatello]

wow this thread is like the goop in ghostbusters 2, it makes everyone angry

[iKe7in]

David pwns all.

I think most of this argument is bullshit, because it really doesn't matter who copied what, or who called someone else something, because it doesn't change anything, and chances are someone else on the web has had the same idea, whether it be for the Live Series or not.

I don't really prefer one site over the other, but I found dotorg first, so it will always have a special place in my heart (sniff, sniff). The NLSC community is much larger, but also has many more useless threads and more useless members. The feedback I get on my patches here is usually far beyond the comments (if I get any) at dotorg. Dotorg is much funnier, and has more user-friendly forums, with more instruction, and far more patch threads. They have many more events, and many more projects. The only problem I have with dotorg is that it is pretty much dominated by a select group, and a lot of smart newbies are ignored.

[Andrew]

Further to the "full of shit" justification. I will use this very post. You say you didn't want to go on with this.. but you have not locked the thread like you usaually do? So obviously you wanted it to go on.. you wanted Jackal to have his oppurtunity to attack me further... You are the Admin of this forum.. You can lock this post not me? If you really didn't "want to go on with this" why didn't you lock the thread? Again.. you are full of shit..

I'm full of shit for not locking this thread? Please. If I had locked the thread, I would be accused of not allowing free speech or some such. I don't want to keep going on with it, but you keep tossing accusations my way and frankly, I don't want silence to condemn me so I feel obligated to tell my side of the story.

When I first became in charge of nbalive.org I wanted to register at NLSC with my brand new @nbalive.org email address. But I couldn't I found out that nbalive.org email addresses had been BANNED on NLSC.. but benji kindly resolved the issue for me. Please refer to this post http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~nbalive/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2951. I didn't know why the emails were blocked but benji told me it was because the NLSC had some qualms with dotorg.. surely not I thought.. why would they be "anti-nbalive.org"?

This is very true, it was an irrational action on my part. My only defense is to say that I'm human, and at the time there was a lot of bitterness and I was getting fed up with the attacks and the snide remarks. So, I had a knee-jerk reaction. Ben approached me about it, and I rectified the situaion, because I had acted irrationally.

In the meantime I had PM'd Andrew about working together on the wishlist for NBA Live 2004.. I can't access these PM's now because my old account has since been deleted (we will get to that later).. but from what I recall Andrew said great he could use the help etc.. etc..

Again, I don't remember you sending me any PMs about any joint projects or the NBA Live 2004 Wishlist.

but when I sent him an email regarding my ideas and he saw it was from an @nbalive.org he suddenly started to ignore me and blocked me on MSN? I emailed him a few times ... nothing.. I got frustrated and upset.. (as I think most people would)/quote]

I do not remember these emails either. I only remember one email from you, which is the next one.

I then made a post on NLSC that flamed Andrew for ignoring/blocking me .. I cant find that post (probably been deleted) but I admit I was a bit harsh.. I was angry .. he was ignoring my emails/blocked me on MSN.. how else was I supposed to get a response.. never got a proper one to this day.. and the only conclusion I can come to is that Andrew treated me the way he did because I was a member of nbalive.org.

That is the one and only email that I can recall getting from you, where you demanded to be reinstated after you flamed me and refused to settle down.

anyway I never posted here for a while till I recieved a link to NLSC from someone.. I think it was Repole.. http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~nbalive/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15550 .. I decided to express my opinion that NLSC should try to be original. That is all. But the thread was locked and it was apparently my fault that NLSC didn't have the wonderfull rotating banners .. if you read all I said was they should be original.. the NLSC could have taken that onboard and done it in an original way and really surprised the community.. but no.. the evil David from nbalive.org was stopping them from doing it? Whatever..

The reason we objected to the accusations was that it wasn't someone on the NLSC team who suggested the idea. The idea was suggested as a contest and I thought "Hey, might be a bit of fun to liven up the forum". But the backlash was so aggressive that I decided we should back off.

Now again, I'm not looking for a fight here, but as you keep lobbing accusations my way, I feel I need to defend myself and offer my side of the story - I know if I didn't respond, it would "prove" that I'm "guilty". Likewise, if I lock the thread, I "won't be allowing free speech" and "ignoring the issue".

You keep referring to hostility from the NLSC, but most of the hostility is coming from your direction. I don't make it a habit of demeaning your work or posting snide comments in nbalive.org's forum or anything like that. Certain disagreements have made the atmosphere less friendly, but I don't make attacks on nbalive.org.

Alright, this situation has gone on long enough. I think we've moved past the issue that started this latest spat, and if everyone is willing to move on and try to get along and be civil, I'm all for that, I'll lock the thread and we'll forever hold our peace. But if there's something more to say, I'm trying to do the right thing and allowing everyone to speak freely without consequence.

[David]

The reason we objected to the accusations was that it wasn't someone on the NLSC team who suggested the idea. The idea was suggested as a contest and I thought "Hey, might be a bit of fun to liven up the forum". But the backlash was so aggressive that I decided we should back off.

The backlash? Aggressive? read the posts.. I said "How about you all work together and come up with some original ideas like we do at .org.. it would be better for the community.."

How is that agressive? then it was our good friend Jackal who said "Anywho, if the original founders of the rotating forum logo's don't wish for the NLSC to use their idea's, screw it." .. who was being aggressive..

and I responded.. "NLSC can do what it wants... I am just saying I think it would be better for the community if it came up with it's own ideas rather then just copying nbalive.org... that is all.." .. so please where was the aggressive backlash you accuse me of?

This is very true, it was an irrational action on my part. My only defense is to say that I'm human

Ok well we are all human. Unfortunately I don't have any "evidence" of the other posts/emails as they have been deleted.. but if your memory is bad and you can't remember that is fine.. I can't say otherwise..

Now again, I'm not looking for a fight here, but as you keep lobbing accusations my way, I feel I need to defend myself and offer my side of the story

Andrew this is not a fight.. it never was.. all it was was me stating my opinion that the NLSC should try to be more original.. then people attacked me for doing so... ok.. I will assume that you never knew what nbalive.org was doing.. but can I suggest to you visit our site from time to time.. I think it is a pretty good site and you may get more of an understanding of what goes on in the community..

[J@3]

To be fair, Andrew 99.9% of the time has no idea what's going on at .org. The only way he finds out is by people telling him.

[Andrew]

Aggressive probably wasn't the best word. But some of the posts were somewhat scathing and condescending given that we weren't trying to copy your idea - like I said, Ruffryder suggested the idea and, not wanting to be closed off to new ideas, I thought it might be cool to have posters involved in the site like that.

I should also add that it's not just the things that are said, it's the tone in which they are intended to be read - or at least, the tone that can come across.

but can I suggest to you visit our site from time to time.. I think it is a pretty good site and you may get more of an understanding of what goes on in the community..

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by getting more of an understanding, but I would definitely say that nbalive.org is much better than "pretty good". Any quarrel I may have had in the past is nothing to do with the quality of the work or the patches, which I consider to be outstanding - I do check out the Announcements section, even if I don't always post there.[/quote]

[AlexC]

Live.org is nice, but frankly when u look at it ...its boring...yeh its the "heaven" for patches maybe..but its forum sucks....nobody got anything in their brain except....."Oh I think Ill make a patch today cause my dick got erected,hmmm I must ask my little sister how that happens."

meh...
some people

I wonder if Tony ever got a hard on while creating one of 100s of cyberfaces he contributed to the cumminty.
I wonder if bchogan ever made a tent while creating one of his faboulos courts/jersey patches he contributed to the community.
I wonder is ben ever got a boner while re-rating every single nba player and creating shitload of legend teams for his great roster patches, that are by far the best in the community.
I wonder if DAnet ever got a hard on while creating one of his revolutionary 2X patches that make it possible for both, dotorg and nlsc members to creat 2X Jersey or Shoes patches.
without nbalive.org there would have been no nba live street 2003/2004 mod, no nteams mod, no ncaa mod, probably even no athens 2004 mod, no nbl mod, no nbdl mod...this community is about patches...and the by far best patches can be downloaded at nbalive.org...it isn't even close...
Other than that dotorg has never picked up anyone from the nlsc, every quality patcher is posting is work on both sites, and while all he gets on nlsc is WOW he might even get some constructive criticism over at .org that improves his patches.
You my freind are seriously one of the biggest idiots I ever had the doubtful favor to "meet".
Some people might know that I'm not too fond of nlsc still i'm not discrediting any of it's staff or forum members like you are.
I bet you have downloaded countless patches from the nbalive.org servers and enjoyed playing with them. still you rant about the site and make fun of his patchers.

never shit where you eat, duke.

Last edited by AlexC on Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Wall St. Peon]

This is just silly....I'm away from the site for who knows how long, Live 2005 comes out and is great, and this petty bickering is still going on, just like when I left Regardless of how much time, money, and love you've invested in this site or the game, it's still a web site, it's still an internet forum, and it's still a fucking video game. Unless .org copyrighted something (and I'm talking spending money to copyright), then anything they do is public domain. The same goes for the NLSC. If anything, .org is copycatting the NLSC...same sort of site, they ahve a forum, etc. etc. etc. They started hosting patches...only difference...then they got a big team...which the nlsc had first, technically. It really DOES NOT MATTER. Everyone steals from everyone. .org jacked stuff from sites that I've never seen, and I'm sure the nlsc has as well. Very little is original on the internet....so basically....shut up, all of you.

Anyway...

Everyone needs to step back and realize that even if you win an argument on a message board, you're still a retard.

See you in a month or two....


Edit:

Alex, the NCAA patch has been around since Dave Zolnier. I fucked around with that until...Live 2001? I dunno, but me and Greedo did all sorts of stuff with that. You act like people wouldn't patch if there wasn't a .org....it's arrogance like that that makes .org annoying to me. It's a goddamned game...take pride in your patches, that's fine, but don't act like you're god because a bunch of you decided to put zip files of your work on the same server...

You all existed separately before. You just consolodated. If there was no .org, you would still patch and have your own sites, just like before. Oh, and I think your post (and your posts in general) kind of make evident the "feud" between the two sites.

This is retarded.

[Donatello]

post deleted

Last edited by Donatello on Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[AlexC]

Alex, the NCAA patch has been around since Dave Zolnier. I fucked around with that until...Live 2001? I dunno, but me and Greedo did all sorts of stuff with that. You act like people wouldn't patch if there wasn't a .org....it's arrogance like that that makes .org annoying to me. It's a goddamned game...take pride in your patches, that's fine, but don't act like you're god because a bunch of you decided to put zip files of your work on the same server...

You all existed separately before. You just consolodated. If there was no .org, you would still patch and have your own sites, just like before. Oh, and I think your post (and your posts in general) kind of make evident the "feud" between the two sites.

I know about ncaa '99 shane, I just said that the live 04 version wouldn't have been put together without .org.
There would have been none of the mods that where made for last year, and without .org I wouldn't do the legends mod and ultraNIX and manou wouldn't do the eruoleague mod this year.
I'm not arrogant at all, I just want people to stop putting down nbalive.org.
We are not discrediting the nlsc at all, i'd just like it to be a little more original.
I barely visit nlsc and I don't have anything against it...I just answered to this thread because ben send me that piece of shit najira posted. so please stop acting like i'm constantly flaming nlsc or its members.
other than that, I don't know if i'd patch if it wasn't for .org...it's a perfect "working environment" for patchers and makes it easy for us.
Because of this I just hate it when people are ranting about it...

Last edited by AlexC on Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Andrew]

Forgot to mention this in my previous post:

I agree that both sites should be doing original things, I understand the criticism and the objections to what seemed like me copying what David had done. And like I've said, I didn't know he had done it over at nbalive.org. But my aim is to be original and hopefully we won't have issues like this again.

The reason I bring this up again is because with the move to the new server, I was wanting to move back into hosting files for patchmakers, as the NLSC did a long time ago. Various technical details made this difficult in recent times, but it's now quite feasible again. I'm saying this because no doubt it will look like an attempt to copy nbalive.org, but the idea is basically as old as the idea of NBA Live websites themselves. It's something that I wanted to provide but couldn't.

[Matthew]

Very little is original on the internet....so basically....shut up, all of you.

Go fuck yourself Shane. You're not in a position to tell people to shut up (let alone everyone) becuase they have different opinions to you. Not much has changed with you, it's the same old "i'm right, everyone else is wrong" crap, then you have the audacity to tell people they are close minded....

[J@3]

I wonder if Tony ever got a hard on while creating one of 100s of cyberfaces he contributed to the cumminty.

I think I've seen a porno movie with that title.

We are not discrediting the nlsc at all, i'd just like it to be a little more original.

Oh for fuck sakes, try reading some of the other posts ay.

Right the Aussie slang's coming out now, any more dumbass comments and I'm going Paul Hogan on your asses

[Matthew]

lol watch this turn into aussieland part 2

[Ataraxia]

I bet you have downloaded countless patches from the nbalive.org servers and enjoyed playing with them. still you rant about the site and make fun of his patchers.

not really, ive never downloaded a patch created from dotorg...cause I really dont like em.. but they get alotta hype...to tell u the truth the 4th quarter net ones r the best....Mikki is my fav patcher ..n I use to like clikstie, but hes kinda disappear into thin dust...

and I dont even bother with dotorg anymore....cause it kept crashing every damn week.....yes I give credit the ppl that make patches cause yes their damn hard....n I was foolish abt those comments that ppl r jobless to make em....I was wrong....but guess this I HAVE NEVER EVER DOWNLOADED A PATCH OR ANYTHING ELSE FROM DOTORG.

Plus u know I sent a mail to Tony n some other dotorg patcher long time back asking for a request....I didnt even get a friggin reply.....sum kinda friendly patchers they are, as I said Tony got talent but I think Mikki takes the crown (at least for me)

oh yes im a POS AlexC ....yes look at me im a walking talking brown skinned POS.

oh yes this is World War III .....the NLSC's Jackal n Najira r POS....yes they caused all this problem....David is my hero, I wish he were my father...

say all u want, I can voice my friggin opinion....n David can reply if he wants to..u dont hafta be his lil pocket rocket n call ppl POS when u barely know em, seen em, heard em or even got punched by em ever....so its not in your friggin rite to call ppl POS....your a dumb dipshit n your a disgrace to the name Alex....so go fish for cookies n stop throwing around the POS on me....im calling u those names above cause , yes im a POS after all...

confusing, good i hope it confused u all !!

[Jackal]

Meh..

According to a certain moderator my post was merely "cheep shot by me on David, Lanky Man, Rip and various other newbies that manage to piss me off."

This mod truely hopes I can control myself before I vent my frustrations for various reasons.

Normally I would take the time to explain to this moderator as to why I "take cheep shots" at these people. I have rational explanations for attacking Lanky Man, according to me atleast. But hey, this mod doesn't really want to hear it from both sides, he'd rather just tell me to calm myself down.

Awright, I'm calm, finished & washed up.

Besides, the title was edited. Did you know that? No. Did you bother finding out? Nopes. Did you say I'm taking "cheep shots" just because they've "pissed me off" for various reasons? Yes.

To whoever, nothing wrong with being 20 & being involved with a website. Involved is something. An obsession is something else, feeling as if everyones out to copy you is an obsession, telling someone how much you spend of your own salary for the costs is just "ooh look at me, I spent my money, I'm the pwn."

Anywho's, it's all a "cheep shot" so I'll just shut the fuck up & stand back and watch the next time I hear the alarms ringing "they stole my idea, they stole my idea"

Since I'm heeding this mod's advice I'd like him to heed some of my advice, how's about you listen to both sides, actually find out what has happened before you comment. Besides, note the first post was a simple and non negative post of asking him to shut the fuck up. If saying shut the fuck up is negative, I suck. I apolgise for not being prim and proper and asking this person to shut the fuck up about his site constantly being ripped off, I apologise for constantly hearing how anti dotorg Andrew is, how picked on the webmaster of dotorg feels he is, yepsh, I apologise.

Am I calm enough now? Back to square one with a new "enemy". Mr. Poor guy got his apology & I admit to being the scum.

Yay! Peace is restored. Till a new feature is unveiled ofcourse, or a dotorg thread surfaces or any other fucked up reason David feels so hurt.

[AlexC]

I wonder if Tony ever got a hard on while creating one of 100s of cyberfaces he contributed to the cumminty.

I think I've seen a porno movie with that title.

We are not discrediting the nlsc at all, i'd just like it to be a little more original.

Oh for fuck sakes, try reading some of the other posts ay.

Right the Aussie slang's coming out now, any more dumbass comments and I'm going Paul Hogan on your asses

uhh-ohh

the regular typo joke, good one

and najira...lol...wonderful stuff...go fuck yourself

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.

[J@3]

the regular typo joke, good one

Mate that wasn't a regular typo, it was a whole new word.

Edit:

According to a certain moderator my post was merely "cheep shot by me on David, Lanky Man, Rip and various other newbies that manage to piss me off."

This mod truely hopes I can control myself before I vent my frustrations for various reasons.

Which certain moderator was this? And by cheep, they meant bird right?

[Andreas Dahl]

That was me.

Not sure if I should post what I wrote to him, so I'll leave that to Jackal if he feels like it, as long as he quote it...