Hussein family's torture tools unveiled.

Im saying Saddam took over the country after the gulf war because US let him. Same for the 20 previous years, did i mention he wasn't there before, no. When it got out of control they went to war and they did the same mistake.

You're saying the wrong thing though. Because Saddam had power before, during and after the Gulf War. He didn't ever leave power. The United States Military was prepared to take down Saddam, but the United Nations, the French, State and the Left (who opposed driving Saddam out of Kuwait) cried "WE WERE JUST LIBERATING KUWAIT! NOT REMOVING SADDAM!" so Herbert Walker caved. Marking himself as a failure of a President. An Iraqi resistance was engineered but again, State squashed it's support (after Herbert Walker vowed to support it) because they love the status quo.

Transfer to power? Stop watching the news. There is no transfer of power. US is setting up a government they want, that seems appropriate to them, not Iraqi's, at least not the major part of them.

I'm not watching the news, I want to find out what's going on in Iraq. There are numerous local elections, a temporary government has been setup that will preside until elections later this year and the larger elections next year. It's the same setup as in Afghanistan, where 80+% of the country is looking forward to voting this fall for a President and then a parliment next year. Hamid Karzai is likely to win because he has 62% support, but that doesn't make it "undemocratic." Of course the coalition had to set up the government, there was no system to set one up unless they restored Saddam to power. State wanted the Baa'thsts back in power to have a government we'd like. But the Bush Administration has gone against that in both Afghanistan and Iraq and is going to allow the people to vote. A victory that goes beyond our interests.

The groups i mentionned are not terrorists they are just civilians with different religions. Don't know the names in english.

They aren't fighting at all. It's the terrorist thugs that are fighting.

You had to fight this war? Why this country, all of sudden US is helping everybody out.

Yes, we have to fight this war. Otherwise we will lose. Iraq isn't a war, it's a battlefield.

And if you want reasons I will cop out and copy from a MSN chat with PJ a few minutes ago: because Saddam possessed WMD, had ties to terrorism including al Qaeda, murdered a million of his own people, in the past invaded two seperate nations, continued to violate the cease fire by firing on our planes, etc. etc.

How about Korea? Oh, maybe it's not a dictatorship.

Korea will be coming. I doubt we will be going in there during the Bush administration. It is a few years off. It will likely be a bloody war. And tens of millions will die if they do not give up their nuclear arms. If China does not turn against North Korea the Pacific will become nuclearized and no one will care about the Middle East.

How about Africa with all the dictators elected with 99% of the votes.
How about all the genocides?

The United Nations is loathe to care about the genocides, no one cares about Africa really. However, I believe that we will need to regulate up in there eventually, but there are priorities. First, we must handle the threats to our nation and the world. Then, we can move onto those who are threats only to their own people.

war is nevezr "logical" to me.

You must win the war before you can have peace.

This war was never justified.

It was always justified.

It was opposed by the UN and alot of countries

The United Nations opposed intervention in the Balkins.

France and Russia would have NEVER supported this war.

The opposition of the UN and those countries just shows how weak and ineffective they really are. That they won't enforce their own resolutions.

Plus they never found any WMD

Whoops, they did. Whoops, EVERYONE in the world including those countries that opposed the war and the UN said Saddam had them. They just "disappeared" to places like Syria, Iran and the desert. Lest everyone forget the Iraqi's buried their ENTIRE AIR FORCE in the desert and it wouldn't have been found had the wind not blown the sand off the tip of a wing.

PLUS tell me how or when in the world did Saddam threaten the USA.

You mean other than the times he directly did it?

If Bush went to war because he felt bad about the people that are being killed and tortured in Iraq, then there are 100's of other countries worst..

There aren't hundreds of countries worse. Maybe ten (and half of them sit on the United Nations Human Rights Council...like Libya, the chair and Cuba...) but of course you're being an idiot and trying to make it one reason.

There wasn't ONE reason to remove Saddam. There were tens of reasons. If not millions (those killed at Saddams hands).

Would you rather Saddam still be in power?

No, he probably wouldn't.

But he feels Bush should not have removed him. Bad bad Bush.

Someone else should've removed him.

Hmm, you think they would be saying the same shit they are now had it been someone named Uguadla? See it now:

"Ooooh, Uguadla removed Saddam, it's not his place. Uguadla = evil!!! !!"

He keeps talking about the United Nations. So I'm sure he'd rather they handle it like they did the Balkins and Rwanda.

Well it's your opinion for all this but i truly disagree with it. You show what you want to be seen and say what you want to be heard but the war is much more complicated.
You are very pro-american and it's hard to discuss that way. If you think it's normal calling a country a battlefield, those who don't agree idiots (UN, france, so many...)...etc, fine, do so. You can always arrange the facts to make it look good a la michael moore or bush.
We've had this situation before, Bush is world dictator, well not him, he is too stupid but his administration are. You cant fight the world for personal beleives and without considering UN.


For Rwanda it's horrible how UN handled the situations (that includes France AND the US).

but the war is much more complicated.

Really? Please how explain how much more complicated it is than I appear to grasp.

You are very pro-american

So, you're anti-American. And that makes you any more valid to discuss something? (Especially since you don't even know the history of Iraq)

If you think it's normal calling a country a battlefield

I don't. But this is a world war, so all countries are battlefields.

those who don't agree idiots (UN, france, so many...)

They are idiots. They would rather let millions die to keep their money (French and Russian contracts with Iraq, the corrupt Oil-For-Food program, etc.) instead of liberating 50 million and saving countless millions throughout the world.

We've had this situation before, Bush is world dictator, well not him, he is too stupid but his administration are.

Oh. My. God. "Bush is world dictator" and you expect people to take you seriously? When you're a freaking nut.

You cant fight the world for personal beleives and without considering UN.

The United Nations WAS considered but they wanted to keep their $$$ at the cost of millions of lives. The Coalition (of 70 nations...26 more than the Allies in WWII) decided otherwise. The Coalition decided that we are going to win this war profits be damned.

So, you're anti-American. (Especially since you don't even know the history of Iraq)

No im not, Im not against the war Im against Bush and his Government. That doesn't make me anti-american.
What do you know about me knowing the history of Irak. So what, you looked up some pro-american shit and keep feeding it to others.

I don't. But this is a world war, so all countries are battlefields.

Yeah let's see when yours become one.

They are idiots. They would rather let millions die to keep their money (French and Russian contracts with Iraq, the corrupt Oil-For-Food program, etc.) instead of liberating 50 million and saving countless millions throughout the world.

I know about the contracts but you there is also some other countries (people) have different ways of thinking what's right or wrong. And for the contracts, Bush gave all of them to his friends all in oil companies.

Oh. My. God. "Bush is world dictator" and you expect people to take you seriously? When you're a freaking nut.

You would be surprised how many nuts we are. (btw this comment is just an image)

Coalition (of 70 nations...26 more than the Allies in WWII) decided otherwise. The Coalition decided that we are going to win this war profits be damned.

70 nations all depending on the united states or in collaboration. Profits be damned for your country not for bush.

No im not, Im not against the war Im against Bush and his Government. That doesn't make me anti-american.

But you keep attacking me for being pro-America so you must be the opposite?

What do you know about me knowing the history of Irak.

Well, you kept claiming that Bush let Saddam take power after the Gulf War in 1991.

So what, you looked up some pro-american shit and keep feeding it to others.

Where did I look up some "pro-american shit"? I didn't look up anything. I just happen to know the history of Iraq unlike someone else.

Yeah let's see when yours become one.

It already has.

I know about the contracts but you there is also some other countries (people) have different ways of thinking what's right or wrong. And for the contracts, Bush gave all of them to his friends all in oil companies.

Sigh. Forget it...you're not going to listen to the truth...

You would be surprised how many nuts we are. (btw this comment is just an image)

That comment is just a mish-mash of words.

70 nations all depending on the united states or in collaboration. Profits be damned for your country not for bush.

70 nations that realize we are fighting a war for our way of life. Unlike your country which would let millions die as long as your friend Saddam kept the money flowing. Unlike your country which has vowed to oppose the United States. Unlike your country which wishes to be important.

But you keep attacking me for being pro-America so you must be the opposite?

Im not attacking you im only trying to discuss.

Well, you kept claiming that Bush let Saddam take power after the Gulf War in 1991.

As I said Saddam did take power after Gulf war, he took it back.

Where did I look up some "pro-american shit"? I didn't look up anything. I just happen to know the history of Iraq unlike someone else.

What i mean there is that i could expose facts against bush and against the war as you do.

It already has.

Were you there? No.

Sigh. Forget it...you're not going to listen to the truth...

Yes I am, i just beleive you don't tell the truth. (in a general way im not saying all you said was bullshit.)

70 nations that realize we are fighting a war for our way of life. Unlike your country which would let millions die as long as your friend Saddam kept the money flowing. Unlike your country which has vowed to oppose the United States. Unlike your country which wishes to be important.

My friend Saddam? My country? Why are you attacking me on my country? Im not so proud of my government and can see the truth unlike others. Do you really like Bush and your Government or are you just supporting the war?

Again Im not against the war im against bush and his government.

As I said Saddam did take power after Gulf war, he took it back.

He never lost it!

What i mean there is that i could expose facts against bush and against the war as you do.

Bring it. Bring the facts. If you have facts and not "facts" (loony leftist theories) bring them.

Were you there? No.

How do you know?

My friend Saddam?

That's what Jacques Chirac called Saddam. France's (and his personal) friend.

Do you really like Bush and your Government or are you just supporting the war?

50% Domestic, 85% Foreign.

However I am for Kerry:
15% Domestic, 0% Foreign.

You guys are starting to turn into me... (J/K)

Last edited by ATTENTIONWHORE on Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

Shut up.

Mat-mat, I'm sorry to say but you're doomed.