Lebanon/Israel

Apparently someone at the rally stole your reading comprehension.

You paint a pretty picture for people who target civllians and use civillans as human shields. The reason for the "high" casualty rate is the aforementioned use of human sheilds by hezbollah "fighters". If they were true fighters, they would wear army uniforms and not hide like a bunch of females in apartment blocks.

There are a lot of people here who just talk bullshit without any regards to actual facts. It's like they're living in a never-never land, with troublemakers, however, who are trying to play havoc with their idyll:

I saw a reportage yesterday, and I realized that the Lebanese people are really out of their mind. They say that Israel specifically targets at civilians, and that they have no guts to fight with Hezbollah. WTF? First of all, if Hezbollah "fighters" came out of their hideouts and fought like real fighters, some days later the meaning "Hezbollah" wouldn't exist anymore. And then, they moan about civilian casualities . What else is there to expect if they hide out because they can't keep up with the struggles?

The United States is giving Israel bombs and ammo for the purpose of killing innocent civilians. Period.

You sound very Canadian/ European with that statement.

Why do so many people actually say that Israel started all this, and that Hezbollah "fighters" (:roll:) are trying to defend "their country"? It's the opposite. And the media in Europe is steadily trying to convince the people that Lebanon is unblamable for what they do, and that they are the ones who have to be commiserated. Newspapers, televison, internet... the whole media is filled with good-for-nothing articles that are supposed to show in what a pathetic situation the people in Libanon are situated. And that reportage of which I am speaking above is from German TV, of course. And also in Dutch newspapers and news they show alike reports in which Israel isn't even mentioned. Why does all this iniquity happen?

LOL. You keep trying to justify unnecessary civilian deaths by using the human-shields theory. That's the point; this war could have been avoided.

Could have been avoided? Why doesn't the Lebanese administration try to stop all this, instead of going further into that war?

Kinda sad how they can't defeat a guerilla group even with all the superior technology they have.

Are you even listening to what people say? The whole war would have been over if these suckers had come out and fought. They can't defeat them because there are tons of them distributed all over Lebanese apartment buildings.

instead of making a real reply to his totally valid statement

Isn't that the thing that you always avoid... making a reply to "totally valid statements" and actual facts?

most every Muslim and CHRISTIAN in Lebanon support Hezbollah

Most every? That is why they support Lebanon (but you haven't yet answered to it, of course):

Do you even know why Hezbollah runs everything? So that people will be grateful for what Hezbollah did and support them in everything they will do. And of course people of a nation who constantly get aid and assistance from a certain organization will always support that organization, in good and bad times. That's why the Lebanese people are not at odds with Hezbollah.

Last edited by 8-Hype on Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

the whole media is filled with good-for-nothing articles that are supposed to show in what a pathetic situation the people in Libanon are situated.

dude, in america, cnn, fox, abc, cbs talk all about the israeli causualties.

they show like 10 pictures of israeli casualties, and only 2 or 3 pictures of poor, lebonese kids

israel has been killing tons of civilans in the hope of killing a couple of soldiers, and olmert calls the death of 37 children in one airstrike "collateral damage"

humans are not collateral damage, you inhumane fool

finally, in response to matthews post, hezbullah is a a militia that protects southern lebanon, and as most of you know, a militia is made up of normal civilians, southern lebanon doesnt have a trained lebonese army protecting them, and hezbullah offered to help 20 something years ago, and were accepted by the large majority of the population in southern lebanon

dude, in america, cnn, fox, abc, cbs talk all about the israeli causualties.

they show like 10 pictures of israeli casualties, and only 2 or 3 pictures of poor, lebonese kids

And in Europe they don't even say ONE WORD about Israeli damage.

israel has been killing tons of civilans in the hope of killing a couple of soldiers

It has been told why this happens, but your ignorance eliminates your very own advertency to facts. They actually, as this has been said tons of times by different people, do not target at civilians. In the hope of killing "soldiers"? What soldiers do you talk about? Do you mean the terrorists that use humans as shields and hide in apartment buildings in order to win that war mentally, because people pity the casualties that could have been avoided by the Lebanese government and the "soldiers" themselves?

I'll be kind and again and for the last time will quote myself. I just wonder what the chance is that you will actually read what I and other people write.

I saw a reportage yesterday, and I realized that the Lebanese people are really out of their mind. They say that Israel specifically targets at civilians, and that they have no guts to fight with Hezbollah. WTF? First of all, if Hezbollah "fighters" came out of their hideouts and fought like real fighters, some days later the meaning "Hezbollah" wouldn't exist anymore. And then, they moan about civilian casualities Rolling Eyes. What else is there to expect if they hide out because they can't keep up with the struggles?

Last edited by 8-Hype on Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

Gotta love how sides spin facts (and in reality, there is only one truth...) to make themselves look innocent, eh? Nobody fighting is ever the bad guy, ever... it's always the other side... they're the bad guys...

Do you hear Nasrallah calling for the defeat of Jews in his speeches?

Actually...

On October 22, 2002, Hassan Nasrallah told Lebanon’s Daily Star, “If they [the Jews] all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them world wide.” -- from the National Review Online.

From CAMERA: "If we searched the entire world for a person more cowardly, despicable, weak and feeble in psyche, mind, ideology and religion, we would not find anyone like the Jew. Notice, I do not say the Israeli." (New Yorker, Oct. 14, 2002)

"Martyrdom operations - suicide bombings - should be exported outside Palestine. I encourage Palestinians to take suicide bombings worldwide. Don't be shy about it." (Washington Times, Dec. 6, 2002)

peoples opinions can change in 4 years

On something that they felt so strongly about? I highly doubt it. For some reason I have a feeling he still hates Jewish people.

Israel is a country which shouldn't even exist and Israelis had NO right to take the land they live on now

Blah blah blah

I (It's the same if I ask you: "would you give a land to Buddhist people even if you know that territory is Vietnamese or Chinese?")
blah blah

... if Hitler would have killed twenty million jews then the world would be a better place now.

my goodness and that was just the 1st few replies

Who does sells these ppl weapons? i finally watched Lord of War, HMMMMMMM.

Nice info

http://democracynow.org/

i didnt understand a single thing u said...

dude, in america, cnn, fox, abc, cbs talk all about the israeli causualties.

they show like 10 pictures of israeli casualties, and only 2 or 3 pictures of poor, lebonese kids

You must get a different American media than I do. Then there's al-Reuters...but that's another story.

It's cool how you said that instead of making a real reply to his totally valid statement about how the US supplies weapons to Israel (more weapons which are more advanced in technology than Hezbollah's) to kill innocent civilians.

The United States sells weapons to Israel to help them defend themselves from the predators that surround them. Not to intentionally kill civilians which Israel does not do. Nothing wrong with providing our allies with military firepower, unless you also find Lend-Lease to be something horrible.

Israel would be fighting in trench-coats too without the billions in "aid" (US tax-payers money) they recieve.

Except Israel has a functioning and strong economy.

Also, more Nasrallah:

"Jews invented the legend of the Holocaust," said Nasrallah on April 9, 2000.

On September 28, 2001, Nassrallah said on Al-Manar, “Throughout history the Jews have been Allah's most cowardly and greedy creatures. If you search the entire face of the earth you will not find anyone more miserly than the Jews or more greedy than they”

Nasrallah ruling out "co-existence with" the Jews or "peace", as "they are a cancer which is liable to spread again at any moment."

finally, in response to matthews post, hezbullah is a a militia that protects southern lebanon, and as most of you know, a militia is made up of normal civilians, southern lebanon doesnt have a trained lebonese army protecting them, and hezbullah offered to help 20 something years ago, and were accepted by the large majority of the population in southern lebanon

But all of this is incorrect. Hebzollah is an arm of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. It was founded on the intent to bring the "Islamic Revolution" to Lebanon and setup an Islamist state as well as to eliminate "the Zionist entity" or Israel. Hezbollah's "militia" is trained by Revolutionary Guardsmen and funded by Iran. Southern Lebanon doesn't have the Lebanese army in it because it's a military that cannot compete with Hezbollah, thus it does not engage Hezbollah and therefore Hezbollah controls the south. Hezbollah expanded into politics in order to assist in gaining control of the Lebanon and to help protect itself from any anti-Hezbollah movements by a traditionally more western and liberal Lebanese peoples.

The best thing for Lebanon. The best thing for the Lebanese people, for the world and for Israel. Is the removal of Hezbollah, Iran and Syria from Lebanon and a re-establishment of Beruit and Lebanon as the "Paris and Switzerland of the Middle East."

For all the carping people do about "not being told the whole story" and such, they sure do easily accept what they're told irregardless of reality.

The United States sells weapons to Israel to help them defend themselves from the predators that surround them. Not to intentionally kill civilians which Israel does not do. Nothing wrong with providing our allies with military firepower, unless you also find Lend-Lease to be something horrible.

I have read enough stories from different journalists that Israeli troops shot helpless Palestinians. I have gotten video footage that two Palestinians were walking down a street and around 5 Israeli troops stripped searched the boys and shot them both for no reason. There is no threat to Israel instead of rocks thrown by Palestinians.

The United States sells weapons to Israel to help them defend themselves from the predators that surround them. Not to intentionally kill civilians which Israel does not do. Nothing wrong with providing our allies with military firepower, unless you also find Lend-Lease to be something horrible.

The US gives at least 50 billion dollars in "aid" every year, Im not sure any other country would do that, no matter how great friends they are... the US is subservient to Israel...



http://www.statesman.com/news/content/n ... staid.html

Hezbullah is not a terrorist group, they are a organized militia/army, and you say that the best thing for the Mid-East is to get Hezbullah out, when they are 500 times safer with Hezbullah than they are with the bitches in the Israeli Government...

Matthew, your argument is nearly as bad as Amoattack's.

But yet you don't say anything to condemn his post.. which in a way proves what I've said all along, you are anti jewish.

I've repeated this crap over and over again, but one more time couldn't hurt.

This is the problem I have with you: When there is a solid and logical post constructed, you ignore it (even if its directed to what you are saying). But when there is an obviously sarcastic response to a retarted post, you break it down point by point. Why?

Hmm...maybe because Israel is as hell-bent as the United States is on trying to spread "democracy". And Hezbollah IS a part of Lebanon. They have members in the government.

Lets be serious, 2 members of government do not represent the majority of people in a country. And why the inverted comma's around democracy?

LOL. You keep trying to justify unnecessary civilian deaths by using the human-shields theory. That's the point; this war could have been avoided.

By letting terrorists walk free under a prisioner exchange programme? Here's what Hezbollah wants (and you find this justified): They want a man released who is serving 4 life sentences for murdering an isreali in front of his daughter and then killing his daughter exchanged for a soldier who was abducted within isreal. You find this justifyable? I think thats an insult not just on jews (and I'm hardly a jew), but on any form of logic left in these forums.

And your whole "if they were true fighters" sentence is truly recidulous. Israel would be fighting in trench-coats too without the billions in "aid" (US tax-payers money) they recieve. Kinda sad how they can't defeat a guerilla group even with all the superior technology they have.

You think that hiding in civillian buildings is being a true fighter? Hezbollah is a pathetic army. They are evil as they come, but they have weak weapons and skills. If Isreal didn't care about civillian casualities, Hezbollah would be gone right now. The extremely low tactics of using civillians as shields is the only way this came to a truce.

Right...most every Muslim and CHRISTIAN in Lebanon support Hezbollah. Anti-Jewish has nothing to do with it. It's anti-Zionist. Do you hear Nasrallah calling for the defeat of Jews in his speeches?

I don't listen to his speaches and I don't speak arabic... but you say (nearly) every muslim and christian support hezbollah? Then how come there was a civil war for 20 somthing years there? Hmm thats right..

It's cool how you said that instead of making a real reply to his totally valid statement about how the US supplies weapons to Israel (more weapons which are more advanced in technology than Hezbollah's) to kill innocent civilians.

It's cool how you pretend to not be anti jewish to make your point seem more vaild. If you think the us is providing weapons for isreal to kill civillians, then you're an absolute hypocrit for living there.

Hezbullah is not a terrorist group, they are a organized militia/army, and you say that the best thing for the Mid-East is to get Hezbullah out, when they are 500 times safer with Hezbullah than they are with the bitches in the Israeli Government...

Just because you believe the stories of Jews eating children doesn't make it true. And if you think they're better off with Hezbollah than their own liberal society, you probably think the world is better off with Hussein in power, al Qaeda at full strength and Iran with nuclear weapons.

The US gives at least 50 billion dollars in "aid" every year, Im not sure any other country would do that, no matter how great friends they are... the US is subservient to Israel...

AND THE JEWS CONTROL THE MEDIA AND THE NLSC!!!! Right?

Anyway, the US gave roughly $36 billion in aid from 2003 to 2004. It breaks down like this:
1. Iraq - $2.286 bill
2. Congo - $804 mil
3. Egypt - $767 mil
4. Russia - $737 mil
5. Jordan - $666 mil
6. Afghanistan - $632 mil
7. Pakistan - $590 mil
8. Colombia - $536 mil
9. Israel - $525 mil
10. Ethiopia - $500 mil

Just because it's interesting, the United States gave twice as much aid to Lebanon in 2003-04 as all Arab countries and agencies combined. It also gave $234 million to the "Palestinanian Administrated Areas" compared to $32 million from Arabs. Only the "United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA)" gave more money to the PA.

I have read enough stories from different journalists that Israeli troops shot helpless Palestinians. I have gotten video footage that two Palestinians were walking down a street and around 5 Israeli troops stripped searched the boys and shot them both for no reason. There is no threat to Israel instead of rocks thrown by Palestinians.

I cannot find any reference anywhere on the Internet to this incident (I'd appreciate one beyond the video directly), and we already know that there have been plenty of fake videos made showing supposed intentional murders of children by Israel.

Yeah, they don't ever have to worry about anything but rocks. Go ahead and head to Sbarro and grab a slice.

How this war has been covered: http://www.zombietime.com/reuters_photo_fraud/

By letting terrorists walk free under a prisioner exchange programme? Here's what Hezbollah wants (and you find this justified): They want a man released who is serving 4 life sentences for murdering an isreali in front of his daughter and then killing his daughter exchanged for a soldier who was abducted within isreal. You find this justifyable? I think thats an insult not just on jews (and I'm hardly a jew), but on any form of logic left in these forums.

If you want I can find you 500 pages of atrocities commited by Israel, research some more before you post

You think that hiding in civillian buildings is being a true fighter? Hezbollah is a pathetic army. They are evil as they come, but they have weak weapons and skills. If Isreal didn't care about civillian casualities, Hezbollah would be gone right now. The extremely low tactics of using civillians as shields is the only way this came to a truce.

First Israel sadi that they wanted to wipe off Hezbullah from the face of the world
than they said that they are gonna get them out of the mideast
now they are saying that they will drive them 20 miles back

it has been more than a month and israel, which has the strongest military in the world, has still been unable to defeeat a bunch of "untrained, weak army"

and dont try to say that they are trying to prevent civilaian casualties, they have already killed more than 1500 innocent lives

I don't listen to his speaches and I don't speak arabic... but you say (nearly) every muslim and christian support hezbollah? Then how come there was a civil war for 20 somthing years there? Hmm thats right..

thats completely different, the civil war is between the sunnis that are mostly in the north and the shias that are mostly in the south

just watch, once they unite and realize that they have a common foe, israels gonna get hell, and if another country in the mideast is to stand up against israel, they cant do anything, theyre not gonna be able to fight two wars at once, just look at the US

Just because you believe the stories of Jews eating children doesn't make it true. And if you think they're better off with Hezbollah than their own liberal society, you probably think the world is better off with Hussein in power, al Qaeda at full strength and Iran with nuclear weapons.

dudem how long does it take you to understand that i dont hate jews, im only angry at the israeli government

some of my best friends are jews, and my religion says to tolerate other religions

oh and benji, you double posted...

Last edited by rabbitx on Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

it has been more than a month and israel, which has the strongest military in the world, has still been unable to defeeat a bunch of "untrained, weak army"

and dont try to say that they are trying to prevent civilaian casualties, they have already killed more than 1500 innocent lives

First off, America is the strongest military in the world. Secondly, they haven't been able to defeat Hezbollah because they can't. They could if they were animals like Hezbollah. They could wipe Hezbollah off the map if they wanted to. However, Hezbollah's headquarters and their weaponry systems are all inside densely populated civilian areas. They simply cannot go out there and drop the biggest bomb they have and kill them all because many civilians would die. It's actually quite amazing that there have only been 1500 innocent lives killed. This is called urban warfare. It's our modern warfare.

Can you tell me, AmoAttack, how you would fight Hezbollah if you were Israel? How would you attack an enemy that hides behind innocent women and children? An enemy that is a threat to your people and your country. Would you simply walk away or what would you do? Israel is in a tough situation. They aren't going to compromise their civilians lives anymore. It's time you start holding Hezbollah responsible for the innocent lives lost and not Israel. Tell Hezbollah to stop using human shields. Until then, Israel will be fighting a PR war too and more innocent lives will be killed.

I bet you if Israel wasnt so cowardly, and actually offered to fight Hezbullah mano-a-mano, instead of using airplanes to blindly try to extinguish them, HEzbullah would accept...

and also, America was the strongest military in the world, but now theyre army is depleted because of the fact that they have their army split up into two, one in Afghanistan, one in Iraq

I bet you if Israel wasnt so cowardly, and actually offered to fight Hezbullah mano-a-mano, instead of using airplanes to blindly try to extinguish them, HEzbullah would accept...

Are you fucked up? They would just keep hiding. Why are you calling Israel cowardly? Hezbollah people are the ones who are hiding just because they fear a real fight. If they would come out, believe me: Less than a week, and nobody would know what Hezbollah means. Till now Israel used just 10% of its power. If the real cowards came out (Hezbollah), it would be certain death for them. And even they know that, so they keep hiding. And now get the fuck out of this discussion.

Can you tell me, AmoAttack, how you would fight Hezbollah if you were Israel? How would you attack an enemy that hides behind innocent women and children? An enemy that is a threat to your people and your country. Would you simply walk away or what would you do? Israel is in a tough situation. They aren't going to compromise their civilians lives anymore. It's time you start holding Hezbollah responsible for the innocent lives lost and not Israel. Tell Hezbollah to stop using human shields. Until then, Israel will be fighting a PR war too and more innocent lives will be killed.

That straight motherfucker didn't answer to what you wrote, Riot. They (Wisdom, Dro, AmoAttack) just don't know what to answer. They don't answer to simple facts which prove that everything they said before is wrong.

I bet you if Israel wasnt so cowardly, and actually offered to fight Hezbullah mano-a-mano, instead of using airplanes to blindly try to extinguish them, HEzbullah would accept...

and also, America was the strongest military in the world, but now theyre army is depleted because of the fact that they have their army split up into two, one in Afghanistan, one in Iraq

1. Hezbollah is the group that is being cowardly. Israel has sent soldiers into Lebannon. Hezbollah is the group that is dressing like civilians, placing their weapons inside civilian homes and placing innocent families inside their buildings to deter Israel from attacking them. I don't know how you can say Israel is being cowardly.

2. America is still the strongest military in the world, by far. Iraq and Afghanistan hasn't really changed that.

And now get the fuck out of this discussion.

Excuse me 8-Hype, I have not cursed you out a single time on this thread, yet you insist on calling me a "motherfucker," "a terrorist," and other slurs... You also are asking me to get "the fuck out of this discussion," when I was the one who started the thread in the first place. Im not gonna stand for your rude, intolerant, incessant cursing and rudeness at me, Dro, and others...

There really is no reason why you should leave the discussion. It's hard to have a debate when the other side isn't there or allowed to voice their opinion. I have no problem with AmoAttack and Dro posting here and giving us their thoughts. I disagree with them immensely but that isn't the point.

But yet you don't say anything to condemn his post.. which in a way proves what I've said all along, you are anti jewish.

I've actually disagreed with two of his statements, one in this thread and one in another. I don't agree with a lot of what he says, or his argument technique. Hell, even if I did agree with him, how would that make me anti-Jewish? Jesus Christ dude, you find new ways to label me a racist in every post. And to that, I say bravo!

This is the problem I have with you: When there is a solid and logical post constructed, you ignore it (even if its directed to what you are saying). But when there is an obviously sarcastic response to a retarted post, you break it down point by point. Why?

Are you saying your posts aren't solid or logical? I disagree. I think your posts are well put together for the most part. I just disagree with what you're saying

Lets be serious, 2 members of government do not represent the majority of people in a country. And why the inverted comma's around democracy?

The entire South is all but controlled by Hezbollah. I have a reason for the inverted commas as well. To me, it's apparent that the US doesn't care about democracy as much as it cares for having political influence in the middle east. Hezbollah holds seats in the Lebanese government, and has the majority of the support from the Lebanese people. If Nasrallah were to run in a democratic election, don't you think he would win? If that were to happen, there's no doubt in my mind that Israel, with the help of the US, would launch an attack on Lebanon. Hell, even the Iranian government under Khomeini was voted on democratically (this was Khomeini's decision, nearly all of Iran was in support of him). There was even a constitution that was voted on democratically. Yet, the US government would still rather have the Shah in power, who opressed his people. Why? Because Iran was strategic stronghold in the Middle East, a buffer zone against possible Soviet Invasion into the region. In other words---self-interest.

By letting terrorists walk free under a prisioner exchange programme? Here's what Hezbollah wants (and you find this justified): They want a man released who is serving 4 life sentences for murdering an isreali in front of his daughter and then killing his daughter exchanged for a soldier who was abducted within isreal. You find this justifyable? I think thats an insult not just on jews (and I'm hardly a jew), but on any form of logic left in these forums.

Do you realize that the war has ended, yet the Israeli prisons are still in Hezbollah's custody? And now Israel is lobbying for negotiations with Hezbollah for a prisoner exchange! How rediculous is this? Turn the clock back a little over a month. The same result could have been reached, while 1500 Israeli and Lebanese lives could have been saved.

You think that hiding in civillian buildings is being a true fighter? Hezbollah is a pathetic army. They are evil as they come, but they have weak weapons and skills. If Isreal didn't care about civillian casualities, Hezbollah would be gone right now. The extremely low tactics of using civillians as shields is the only way this came to a truce.

Hezbollah would have no problem fighting on the ground. Quite a bit of Israeli soldiers were killed during the battle. Why? Not rockets...not bombs...but ground war. Personally, I find dropping bombs from planes that Hezbollah CAN'T SHOOT DOWN is just as cowardly as using human shield tactics.

I don't listen to his speaches and I don't speak arabic... but you say (nearly) every muslim and christian support hezbollah? Then how come there was a civil war for 20 somthing years there? Hmm thats right..

The Civil War was not between Hezbollah and people who disagreed with Hezbollah. There were many parties involved; Lebanese Christians, Lebanese Muslims, Israelis, Palestinians, and more.

It's cool how you pretend to not be anti jewish to make your point seem more vaild. If you think the us is providing weapons for isreal to kill civillians, then you're an absolute hypocrit for living there.

LOL, I still can't believe you continue to bring this up. Your whole "anti-Jewish" statements don't even deserve to be responded to, because they're so rediculous. What makes you say I'm anti-Jewish? Is it because I condemn the unnecessary murder of hundreds and hundreds of Lebanese and Israeli lives? I don't celebrate Israeli deaths, as much as you'd like to believe that. I know that casualties on both sides could have been avoided, and after over a month, the two sides are at square-1.

The US provides weapons to Israel to "protect themselves in a hostile region." Funny how Israel is the one involved in most of the hostilities.

And buddy, 50% of Americans disagree with US foreign policy. You want to tell them that they're hypocrites for living here? Go ahead, I'm sure you'll get a warm response.

And now get the fuck out of this discussion.

Excuse me 8-Hype, I have not cursed you out a single time on this thread, yet you insist on calling me a "motherfucker," "a terrorist," and other slurs... You also are asking me to get "the fuck out of this discussion," when I was the one who started the thread in the first place. Im not gonna stand for your rude, intolerant, incessant cursing and rudeness at me, Dro, and others...

Finally you refer to what I said. And I didn't call you a "terrorist", I'm pretty sure about that.

There really is no reason why you should leave the discussion. It's hard to have a debate when the other side isn't there or allowed to voice their opinion. I have no problem with AmoAttack and Dro posting here and giving us their thoughts. I disagree with them immensely but that isn't the point.

Likewise, though I completely disagree with his thoughts, that doesnt mean I dont like him...