33 dead in Va. Tech shooting

[Wall St. Peon]

Illini,

1. Not always. Video games can be a trigger and also help to desensitize. Why do you think the military uses video games to train soldiers?

I'll simplify this. When you play video games, you get a feeling of euphoria - it's fun. You're becoming something you're not, whether it's an orc, an NBA player, or a soldier fighting aliens. You like the euphoric feeling, so you play more and more. You prefer violent, first person shooters. You feel good playing that game. It's comforting, as you have no friends. You think everyone is out to get you, so you think it's cathartic to shoot all these people in a game instead of real life.

Eventually, that video game is a drug and you're addicted. Like any drug, you develop a tolerance and you seek bigger and bigger highs and dosages. You're desensitized to the violence, and your mind begins to blur the lines between reality - consequences for shooting someone, for instance - and the game. You seek greater and greater highs - more realisitic graphics, physics, and plot lines. You withdraw completely, cutting yourself off from reality aside from required tasks, such as going to school or work. One day, something happens that completely destroys the line between video games and reality, and you snap. You get a gun that you bought because you thought everyone was out to get you, and you see your enemies' faces on everyone, and you shoot them. You are hallucinating, and killing those people feels good, it's an adrenaline rush - the ultimate high. You've finally achieved the best high you could possibly get, and you know it. You turn the gun on yourself...

It's dumbed down a bit and I wrote it quickly, but you get the idea. It can happen - video games can be an enabler, and in some cases, a cause - but typically, a person is a loner, violent, and troubled far before they ever touched a keyboard or picked up a controller.

I believe that video games typically do not cause violence any more than the 5 o'clock news or the Jerry Spring Show.

2. Read a few articles. He was being taught privately because he scared one of his professors. They knew about him, but if you profile every mentally unstable kid to snap into a pyschotic rage, well, that's a an even bigger can of worms than gun control.

3. Doctors and therapists are required to know about chemical imbalances; if they didn't, they wouldn't be able to be what they are - especially therapists, as a therapists deal with mental illnesses, and those illnesses are typically caused by chemical imbalances. Teachers are trained to watch for signs, but most state laws prohibit them from doing anything unless there are signs of abuse, the student is a disturbance, or they ask for help. It sounds like this guy wasn't any of the above; he wasn't a disturbance; he just creeped people out, and I can name 10 people that creep me out - but I don't think they're going to go crazy. He certainly didn't ask for help, and there were no signs of abuse. Why would they?

Society thinks they know everything about these illnesses. They misunderstand everything, and think pills can cure all. To be honest, most mental illnesses can be treated by simply talking and doing things to raise one's self esteem. A drug only cures chemical imbalances - it should only be prescribed when the chemical imbalance can't be fixed by non-chemical means.

...and I'll get off my pulpit.

[el badman]

Society thinks they know everything about these illnesses. They misunderstand everything, and think pills can cure all. To be honest, most mental illnesses can be treated by simply talking and doing things to raise one's self esteem. A drug only cures chemical imbalances - it should only be prescribed when the chemical imbalance can't be fixed by non-chemical means.

That's so true, especially in this country where healthcare and big drug companies are such a touchy subject.
Not enough work is done to interact with people who suffer from any kind of mental issue, whether it's a hyperactive kid who's typically fed a bunch of pills by his/her parents, someone who's chronically depressed, or someone like this killer, for whom counseling and therapy were obviously not adequate.
That's not trying to find excuses or justifications for the most barbaric acts, some things just can't be avoided no matter what, but I think a more human approach would certainly help when it comes to the treatment of such individuals.

[Oznogrd]

Illini,

1. Not always. Video games can be a trigger and also help to desensitize. Why do you think the military uses video games to train soldiers?
I'll simplify this. When you play video games, you get a feeling of euphoria - it's fun. You're becoming something you're not, whether it's an orc, an NBA player, or a soldier fighting aliens. You like the euphoric feeling, so you play more and more. You prefer violent, first person shooters. You feel good playing that game. It's comforting, as you have no friends. You think everyone is out to get you, so you think it's cathartic to shoot all these people in a game instead of real life. Eventually, that video game is a drug and you're addicted. Like any drug, you develop a tolerance and you seek bigger and bigger highs and dosages. You're desensitized to the violence, and your mind begins to blur the lines between reality - consequences for shooting someone, for instance - and the game. You seek greater and greater highs - more realisitic graphics, physics, and plot lines. You withdraw completely, cutting yourself off from reality aside from required tasks, such as going to school or work. One day, something happens that completely destroys the line between video games and reality, and you snap. You get a gun that you bought because you thought everyone was out to get you, and you see your enemies' faces on everyone, and you shoot them. You are hallucinating, and killing those people feels good, it's an adrenaline rush - the ultimate high. You've finally achieved the best high you could possibly get, and you know it. You turn the gun on yourself...It's dumbed down a bit and I wrote it quickly, but you get the idea. It can happen - video games can be an enabler, and in some cases, a cause - but typically, a person is a loner, violent, and troubled far before they ever touched a keyboard or picked up a controller. I believe that video games typically do not cause violence any more than the 5 o'clock news or the Jerry Spring Show.
2. Read a few articles. He was being taught privately because he scared one of his professors. They knew about him, but if you profile every mentally unstable kid to snap into a pyschotic rage, well, that's a an even bigger can of worms than gun control.
3. Doctors and therapists are required to know about chemical imbalances; if they didn't, they wouldn't be able to be what they are - especially therapists, as a therapists deal with mental illnesses, and those illnesses are typically caused by chemical imbalances. Teachers are trained to watch for signs, but most state laws prohibit them from doing anything unless there are signs of abuse, the student is a disturbance, or they ask for help. It sounds like this guy wasn't any of the above; he wasn't a disturbance; he just creeped people out, and I can name ev10 people that creep me out - but I don't think they're going to go crazy. He certainly didn't ask for help, and there were no signs of abuse. Why would they?
Society thinks they know everything about these illnesses. They misunderstand everything, and think pills can cure all. To be honest, most mental illnesses can be treated by simply talking and doing things to raise one's self esteem. A drug only cures chemical imbalances - it should only be prescribed when the chemical imbalance can't be fixed by non-chemical means. ...and I'll get off my pulpit.

Ok well for the video game argument i see your point, hell i know for a fact i use it as an escape, but like you said, the worst that happens actually from a video game is jerry springer bullshit stupidity. The powers that be look to everything and anything to justify what horrible things peope do when the truth is, people are just fucked up on occasion

Scaring the teacher=a sign i would think would require the school to look into it, but thats just me

I agree completely about the point about society thinking it knows everything based off zoloft commercials etc. but not all doctors believe in it. I've talked to doctors about it thanks to having dated 3 girls diagnosed with mental illness...and many of the more old school doctors still think it doesnt truly exist as an imbalance. I think its much like i believe about the gay community: there are some who cant help it, and there are some its environmental for. The problem is figuring out which is which. Also i do agree that sometimes just a self esteem boost and talking can help these probles and even exercise can do just as much as the drugs for depression treatments. The problem in this lies though is i dont know a single person with mental illness who adheres to any of their programs....

[shadowgrin]

The problem in this lies though is i dont know a single person with mental illness who adheres to any of their programs....

Because persons with mental illness are not aware of their illness. They don't follow their treatment when they see themselves as normal in their pov anyway.

[Matthew]

Hahah doctor Shane strikes again.

Next thing he'll say he's an "expert" on mental illness, the same way he's a "qualified webpage critic" or a "debate anaylsist".

[Oznogrd]

The problem in this lies though is i dont know a single person with mental illness who adheres to any of their programs....

Because persons with mental illness are not aware of their illness. They don't follow their treatment when they see themselves as normal in their pov anyway.

Ah i wish that was the case...they're fully aware of it but they start thinking "oh it was temporary" when their program begins to work and they stop doing it.... ....Maybe its just cuz the girls i know are young and stupid, but mental illness is one of those things that just epitomizes the "vicious cycle" idea

[shadowgrin]

I see, I was thinking more about worse case mental illness and not those stuck in a temporal cycle of repetition.

Btw, nice avatar and sig. I love those Moonannites from Aqua Teen especially the liitle one (guy in your avatar).

[Eugene]

I was going to make an argument that video games don't cause gun violence because if it did, Korea (the nation with statistically the largest gaming population) would be the deadliest country in the world.

Then I remembered Cho Seung Hui is Korean...

I do think video games are a convenient excuse to distract us from the real problems, like how an individual could be so outcast society that he feels the only way to express himself is through homicide, given that certain insane individuals are an inevitability (there's always one in the family), how easy it is for them to acquire guns.

Video games probably don't help the cause. Almost all pertinent psychological research shows that violent video games do not act as catharthic outlets, instead, they serve to desensitize. On the other hand, well-adjusted people (in fact, most maladjusted people) do not go on killing sprees just because they play Counterstrike.

By the way, here it Korea, people are trying their best to disown Cho Seung Hui as a member of the race, pointing to the fact that he's been there since he was eight. I think Koreans, being so aware of how one person can reflect on a culture, are mortified by this occurrence.

Also, I heard a story about a student who came into school with a BB gun (toy guns are common in Korea, always have been) and pointed it at a teacher, yelling, "I'm Cho Seung Hui!"

Now, that's terrifying...

[Drex]

Also, I heard a story about a student who came into school with a BB gun (toy guns are common in Korea, always have been) and pointed it at a teacher, yelling, "I'm Cho Seung Hui!"

That kid needs help. There are guys like Cho Seung Hui that are probably encouraged by what happened, and they'll try to imitate in their schools/colleges.

I know the events in Va. Tech were horrible, but I read a comment that I think was funny: "That guy had no seoul"

[BiGrEd819]

lol....its funny reading the comments of people blaming VIDEO GAMES for what this Korean kid did in VA. And i dont even know why people are relating a North Korean dictator to this isolated incident.

I have not yet seen or heard anybody bring up the fact that this Korean guy's mom was robbed and killed on the spot when they just moved to the states. Being constantly made fun of and picked on from grade school all the way to highschool. not having a real mother or parent to address his problems as a child. eventually growing up with a shit load of stress and anger, building up hate for the kind of people who discriminate his kind and the people who killed his mother. growing up with a mentality that everyone hates him and his race so maybe he will do the same... also may i remind you guys that he went to school in VA, not california, not new york. it coulda helped if he lived somewhere more diverse.

Or maybe im wrong and it is Counter Strike and other games that are to blame for. and almost forgot the North Korean dictator.

[rabbitx]

^^^

ive never heard of his mom being dead, sources?