Riot forming group to win $25 million

Dweaver.. how would you propose the war on terror be fought?

There is no 'war on terror'. That's the title used to justify economic and political infiltration. Face it, Osama and his crew are a front. Whether they were placed at their position or whether merely their own activity benefits the plans of teh West , I cannot tell. What I can say is, that as long as there is a 'terrorist' to be hunt, or 'freedom' to be restored somewhere in the world, where oh so coincidentally happens to exist oil or poppies, then there is 'reason' to interfere.

Casualities are a necessry evil in war, and there is now way all of them can be avioded.

True. War is the greatest waste of all, throughout mankind. Unfortunately, for peace to endure, it takes collective focus and perseverence. For war to occur, on the other hand, all it takes is one trigger-happy, insecure and complex moron. So war is unavoidable, in the end.

However, when the coaliton goes into combat, they try to minimise innocent casualites. When a terrorist strikes, they try to maximise innocent casualities.

Agreed. Each fights the war their own way. But that is not the point I was trying to make. It's not so much about what happens here and now, but what the implications of these actions are. Mindless killings of innocents and bombings are one thing, but at least it can be taken for grantesd, it is what it is. But on the other hand, the subliminal manipulation of goverments, the infiltration of intelligence agencies, the setting up of drug labs and weapons factories throughout the world, the constant monitoring of personal data, this is much more harmful to you, me, and every other soul on this planet.

"Only god can create a flower, but any moron can pull it apart".

That's pretty much what I said, no? We just disagree on who the actual moron is.

okay here's how I see it....

Clinton =
Bush =
Osama =
Terrorism =
Religion = - btw, I am in no way religion, I just believe it can give kids a good grounding to start life, as long as they don't end up falling into the below category
Any Religious Fanatics (regardless of Religion) =
The Chances of Anyone Winning $25mill =

problem solved?!? if so, make those blank cheques out to me I feel that $25mill coming on sooner than later

Short and Simple.

Judge Judy permanately turnt me off the idea of religion keeping kids in line. They had some 14 year old black kid who had gone with his 12 year old brother at 10 at night while their mum was asleep, stolen some Cognac from a shop, gone home and got drunk, stolen their mothers car and driven around town for a while before running into the neighbours parked car.

The mother, when questioned on her parenting, said she has "just tried to do the best she can and keep the love and faith of God and the Lord Jesus Christ in their hearts"... or words to that effect.

Yeah Mazz, your time could be spent sending messages to people on myspace who were friends with people who committed suicide.

There is no 'war on terror'. That's the title used to justify economic and political infiltration. Face it, Osama and his crew are a front. Whether they were placed at their position or whether merely their own activity benefits the plans of teh West , I cannot tell. What I can say is, that as long as there is a 'terrorist' to be hunt, or 'freedom' to be restored somewhere in the world, where oh so coincidentally happens to exist oil or poppies, then there is 'reason' to interfere.

At first I thought the same thing, but think about this: If there were after oil only, why wouldnt they just go into kuwait (where the builk of the oil is)? And why would they have gone into Afganistan (where the majority of oil is on the forehead of the teenagers)? The war is costing America more than they will ever get back, and they realise that. Yet they havent pulled out, which you cant cricitise.

True. War is the greatest waste of all, throughout mankind. Unfortunately, for peace to endure, it takes collective focus and perseverence. For war to occur, on the other hand, all it takes is one trigger-happy, insecure and complex moron. So war is unavoidable, in the end.

How is he trigger happy? You label him as the villian. Look at the people Saddam killed, the numbers of how many he killed, and you call President Bush a trigger happy moron? If he was truely trigger happy, wouldn't he have gone into Iran and Korea as well? The Coalition spent over 10 years trying to be patient and diplomatic in post gulf war with iraq. Waiting over 10 years for no improvement isnt being trigger happy.

Agreed. Each fights the war their own way. But that is not the point I was trying to make. It's not so much about what happens here and now, but what the implications of these actions are. Mindless killings of innocents and bombings are one thing, but at least it can be taken for grantesd, it is what it is. But on the other hand, the subliminal manipulation of goverments, the infiltration of intelligence agencies, the setting up of drug labs and weapons factories throughout the world, the constant monitoring of personal data, this is much more harmful to you, me, and every other soul on this planet.

Its not just the government who uses subliminal messages. You could rant about pop music as being hynotic.. with most songs repeating the same lyrics over and over and over and over and over again. But thats completely off topic. How about you show me some proof of subliminal manipulation by the american government?

That's pretty much what I said, no? We just disagree on who the actual moron is.

Well, I made that in refrense to your criticism on the war on terror. All you do is criticise it without offering an alternative solution.

Clinton =
Bush =

What the fuck did Clinton do that was so great?

Clinton =
Bush =

What the fuck did Clinton do that was so great?

honestly, aside from his charisma, he did nothing too significant....sadly, it's probably the best thing that a US president has done (or not done) in a long time

At first I thought the same thing, but think about this: If there were after oil only, why wouldnt they just go into kuwait (where the builk of the oil is)? And why would they have gone into Afganistan (where the majority of oil is on the forehead of the teenagers)? The war is costing America more than they will ever get back, and they realise that. Yet they havent pulled out, which you cant cricitise.

It's called 'establishing a foothold'. Just like Hitler did by securing France and the Scandinavian countries before he could bomb the hell out of London. The subtle difference here, is that the 'coalition' secures trade routes and financial influence upon the decision makers in the region. And if that fails, 'decision makers' are planted. Before you know it, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are surrounded.

How is he trigger happy? You label him as the villian. Look at the people Saddam killed, the numbers of how many he killed, and you call President Bush a trigger happy moron? If he was truely trigger happy, wouldn't he have gone into Iran and Korea as well? The Coalition spent over 10 years trying to be patient and diplomatic in post gulf war with iraq. Waiting over 10 years for no improvement isnt being trigger happy.

They actually waited 10 years for another excuse to go back in. Saddam is a beast, granted. The world is probably better without him pulling any strings, as it would be if we got rid of Osama. But that is only the secondary issue here. The benefits of rooting out these sources of evil do not outweigh th eloss of political and personal freedoms throughout the globe. Maybe it's just me, but that is what I believe. Now, about trigger-happiness, I did not say GWB was THAT idiotic so as to use the codes and nuke North Korea or Iran. Even if he was, there would be people with global interests that would stay his hand. Infiltration takes time and careful planning. Brutes do not go far in this field. My comment was based on war as a whole idea.

Its not just the government who uses subliminal messages. You could rant about pop music as being hynotic.. with most songs repeating the same lyrics over and over and over and over and over again. But thats completely off topic. How about you show me some proof of subliminal manipulation by the american government?

I doubt pop music would have a global social effects in the field of freedom. Although it does on the minds of teens worldwide, hehe. Proof of subliminal manipulation? This is not a courtroom. Actually, I do not have any. One more time, I'll say it, the things I posted are my beliefs based on what I see, what people with inside information are willing to share with me, and from what I have seen with my own eyes. These count as proof nowhere in the eyes of teh law or even yours, but they are pretty strong indicators for me to form and support my own views. And another thing. If I did have hard-fact evidence of this, you can bet your arse that I would not be here talking about it with you on an Internet forum. That would not exactly be the smartest option on my part.

What the fuck did Clinton do that was so great?

He legitimised spousal infidelity.

honestly, aside from his charisma, he did nothing too significant....sadly, it's probably the best thing that a US president has done (or not done) in a long time

Bah, his war on Serbia was the prelude of things to come....

Judge Judy permanately turnt me off the idea of religion keeping kids in line. They had some 14 year old black kid who had gone with his 12 year old brother at 10 at night while their mum was asleep, stolen some Cognac from a shop, gone home and got drunk, stolen their mothers car and driven around town for a while before running into the neighbours parked car.

The mother, when questioned on her parenting, said she has "just tried to do the best she can and keep the love and faith of God and the Lord Jesus Christ in their hearts"... or words to that effect.

I hear ya, Jae- but it seems to have been some mix of a bad mother and rebellious kids. Jesus wouldn't approve of that behavior EVER. When parents teach their kids religion, that's not enough to keep their kids in line, because parenting involves so many other aspects- like spending time w/the kids, teaching them about the ways of the world, helping them grow up strong, etc etc etc.

A better way of putting it would be "Religion, if it's done right, can be a good help in keeping kids in line."


As far as the political talk...I hear sound arguments on both sides of practically every issue. I'm not sure how we can really know what's going on, especially since so much is behind the scenes & overseas. But I suppose you've got to try & figure things out or live in ignorance...

At first I thought the same thing, but think about this: If there were after oil only, why wouldnt they just go into kuwait (where the builk of the oil is)? And why would they have gone into Afganistan (where the majority of oil is on the forehead of the teenagers)?

There's no grounds of justification to invade Kuwait, but there is for Iraq (Saddam). The Afghanistan invasion is the 'hunt for bin Laden' and Iraq is... well, since they're in Afghanistan, "why not go after Saddam while we're at it?" The reward: democracy for the people, Western influence and the buildings of corporations. The future is bright for Americans in Iraq in terms of business. As for the invasion, the government can't see into the future, and so they present a projected timetable. It's costing way more than they expected, which is a result of underestimation and miscalculation. If they're willing to spend billions on the Iraq invasion, I highly doubt it's just on grounds of religious morals, but there has to be an ulterior motive behind it.

If he was truely trigger happy, wouldn't he have gone into Iran and Korea as well? The Coalition spent over 10 years trying to be patient and diplomatic in post gulf war with iraq. Waiting over 10 years for no improvement isnt being trigger happy.

North Korea and Iran has nukes, and would pose far too dangerous of a risk to invade. I still keep hearing about an invasion on Iran by the Americans, but there's no way their military, international pressures, and economy can sustain that against a powerful country with a crazy Iranian dictator.

Its not just the government who uses subliminal messages. You could rant about pop music as being hynotic.. with most songs repeating the same lyrics over and over and over and over and over again. But thats completely off topic. How about you show me some proof of subliminal manipulation by the american government?

I agree. Pop culture, advertising, the media all use subliminal messages, but that doesn't exclude any effort by the American government to induce military encouragement, 'soft' propaganda and patriotism.

Bah, his war on Serbia was the prelude of things to come....

Bah, his war on Serbia was the prelude of things to come....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vukovar

Makes me proud to be a Croat. The Serbian forces totalled 50,000 men, 600 tanks, around 1,000 guns and around 100 aircraft vs. 800 trained officers and 1000 volunteers.

Serbian military losses included around 8,000 dead and between 15,000 and 25,000 were wounded. Over 200 tanks and up to 200 other armored vehicles, 100 guns and 20 aircraft were also lost during the siege. And the croats only lost about 1,700 people.

We didn't need America, but Bosnia did.

Judge Judy permanately turnt me off the idea of religion keeping kids in line. They had some 14 year old black kid who had gone with his 12 year old brother at 10 at night while their mum was asleep, stolen some Cognac from a shop, gone home and got drunk, stolen their mothers car and driven around town for a while before running into the neighbours parked car.

The mother, when questioned on her parenting, said she has "just tried to do the best she can and keep the love and faith of God and the Lord Jesus Christ in their hearts"... or words to that effect.

I hear ya, Jae- but it seems to have been some mix of a bad mother and rebellious kids. Jesus wouldn't approve of that behavior EVER. When parents teach their kids religion, that's not enough to keep their kids in line, because parenting involves so many other aspects- like spending time w/the kids, teaching them about the ways of the world, helping them grow up strong, etc etc etc.

A better way of putting it would be "Religion, if it's done right, can be a good help in keeping kids in line."

I agree with you. Unfortunately though, I think religion can also give bad parents an escape clause so to speak... I mean this woman can say she's taught her children the love of God etc, and people would probably accept that and think she's done a good job raising them. Ignoring the fact she never taught them anything to actually keep them out of trouble. It's a double edged sword I guess, but it's no coincidence that most religion-gone-right kids are generally well mannered and stay out of trouble.

Bah, his war on Serbia was the prelude of things to come....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vukovar

Makes me proud to be a Croat. The Serbian forces totalled 50,000 men, 600 tanks, around 1,000 guns and around 100 aircraft vs. 800 trained officers and 1000 volunteers.

Serbian military losses included around 8,000 dead and between 15,000 and 25,000 were wounded. Over 200 tanks and up to 200 other armored vehicles, 100 guns and 20 aircraft were also lost during the siege. And the croats only lost about 1,700 people.

We didn't need America, but Bosnia did.

You shouldn't be proud. Now please stfu because you don't know anything about it.

How about making good arguments instead of asking him to stfu? Given you know it all so well.

Oh, I expect no biasedness from you, a Serbian. None at all.

How about making good arguments instead

I've lived there you prick.

While he doesn't really bring any good arguments, I agree with lpasso on this one.
Jugs is safely sitting behind his desk in Australia, saying he's proud of the Croatian army for that stuff (only because he's Croation for a part), but lpasso is right there in the war area.

Regardless of why America is in Iraq and Afghanistan, the main point is the two countries and the world is better off. The Taliban is gone and Saddam's regime is gone. The reason why America went into Iraq is so we can create a stronghold of democracy and anti-terrorism in the Middle East. If a democratic Iraqi state can survive in the Middle East, then it is a sign to the terrorists that they can't win.

Some...but Not all.

99.9% of ALL PEOPLE are INNOCENT idiot....we need to take out the ones who arent .....u by not helping with that wud be a problem and shud be taken out too

Raps just get over the Sim League thing and stop attacking me.
You really got no life.

dude b/c i have an opinion u think im referring to something else? just cuz i qoute u doesnt mean i refer to something else u did but wat u are doing now, if u cant see that the majority of the worlds population is good people than u are very narrow minded

And where exactly did I say that the majority of people aren't innocent? Oh yeah, if it wasn't just an attack from something from the past then whats with the attacks?

u by not helping with that wud be a problem and shud be taken out too

How about making good arguments instead

I've lived there you prick.

I forgot to put a disclaimer that I have nothing against Serbians. I'm fine with Serbians, I have Serbian friends and they're friends with me. I was just sitting on my desk being proud.

Thank you ceekay. Maybe you know the truth. The point is, my young Jugs, that Croatians don't have reasons to be mad at us. We do have to be mad at you. We were banished from our homes, not you. And I really don't wan't argue with someone who doesn't even know what really happend.

I've lived there you prick.

So? That doesn't enlighten Jugs about what went on over there. That's not an argument. You aren't informing him about jackshit. You just said not to be proud.

Really, the prick part and all, really macho & shit, but I don't give a fuck. Prick or not, you didn't really give him any information regarding what did go on over there. You just told him to STFU. Why? We don't know. Now you say you lived there. Yay. We still don't know why you told him to stfu.

Instead of carrying the hate around & telling misinformed people to stfu, how bout you shed some light on the subject? How about you give them the "correct" information? That comes off much better than a STFU.

While he doesn't really bring any good arguments, I agree with lpasso on this one.

I don't disagree with Lpasso, but I don't agree with him either. If he felt Jugs was bullshitting, atleast give him proper information. It's obvious Jugs doesn't know shit about the war. So instead of just saying STFU, why not explain the whole thing to Jugs & let Jugs go "oh...shit, that's horrible man, my bad for talking smack" instead of just going STFU like a pissy fondled child who visited Michael Jackson's friend who he likes to call "Peter Pan"?

Jugs is safely sitting behind his desk in Australia, saying he's proud of the Croatian army for that stuff (only because he's Croation for a part), but lpasso is right there in the war area.

Agreed & agreed. I wasn't really defending Jugs, my response was more to get Lpasso to realise the way he responded to that post was pretty dumb. I'm aware of the fact he's Serbian, but as I said, just going STFU makes you look like some moron who doesn't know anything about the matter either just pretends to do so & holds a serious grudge.

Then again, his reasoning is that he wont argue with someone who doesn't know what went on. How will someone know what went on when you won't care to elaborate on the subject? It's a vicious circle.

But who cares, I could be fucked about the war.

Elaboration on the subject is too long, too sad and too complicated. I made it short, and the whole point is(although there are a lot more worse things then this):

We were banished from our homes, not you.

So, someone who, I firmly beleive, never were at those territorys, and who, I'm sure has brain washed by CNN and such as, shouldn't be proud. Because he don't know what one of his nations did there. He can be proud, I don't doubt that, but then that would be the wrong way.

If you'd have posted that instead of the STFU the first time around, I'd have a higher level of respect.

Regardless of that, props for trying to explain it the second/third time around. Even if it is a touchy subject.