The Debate Thread: Animal Rights

[benji]

This might be a weird one, but checking back on the original thread that spawned these there was a hint to it.

I don't have much to add actually, but the idea of a zoo was raised prior. There's also the concepts of eating meat, animal testing and so on that could be incorporated.

To start, I'll ramble. I like animals. In a shocking turn of events I do enjoy cats. But beyond that I live in an apartment and have a bird feeder I fill when I remember, I like watching the birds sometimes because I'm a degenerate hermit. But I digress. But animals can be funny to watch.

We capture animals and put them in zoos. Some people find this terrible. And even worse is testing all sorts of things on animals, rats, rabbits, so on. Some feel we shouldn't even be killing animals for food sources. Others even want rights for plants.

PETA kills thousands of animals a year, if not more. Does that affect their moral authority?

I have a pretty good knowledge of picking out meat (rawr) and pick based on eventual flavor. Is this wrong? Why are vegetables superior to animals? Is it wrong to eat certain species but not others? If we eat animals, why not humans?

Apologies for not being able to put up the normal questions for these threads, but just look at the title or respond, or skim the OP and blurt out your obviously perfect opinion on the topic.

[shadowgrin]

The way I see it, it's either me or the cow and it's not going to be me. Sorry cow, you have to die.

[JaoSming]

The way I see it, it's either red meat or salads and it's not going to be salads. Sorry cow, you have to die.

[Oznogrd]

I think im with denis leary on this one
I love to smoke. I love to smoke and I love to eat red meat. I love to eat raw fucking red meat. Nothing I like better than sucking down a hot steaming cheese burger and a butt at the same time. I love to smoke. I love to eat red meat. I'll only eat red meat that comes from cows who smoke, ok!? Special cows they grow in Virginia with voice boxes in their necks. "[VB] Moo"

I tried eating vegetarian. I feel like a wimp going into a restaurant. "What do you want to eat sir? Brocolli?" Brocolli's a side dish, folks. Always was, always will be, ok? When they ask me what I want, I say, "What do you think I want!? This is America. I want a bowl of raw red meat right now. Forget about that. Bring me a live cow over to the table. I'll carve off what I want and ride the rest home! [Making riding noises]"

I gonna open up my own place. Open my own restaurant and get away from you people. I gonna open up a restaurant with two smoking sections; Ultra and Regular, ok? And we're not gonna have any tables or any chairs or any napkins. None of that pussy shit. Just a big wide open black space. And all we're gonna serve is raw meat, right on the bone! And only men are going to eat there, naked men, sitting around a big giant camp fire, and no men's room either. You have to piss, you mark your territory like a wolf! And if some guy has a heart attack from eating too much meat, fuck him, we throw him in the fire! More meat for the other meat-eaters! Yeah!

[puttincomputers]

The way I see it, it's either red meat or salads and it's not going to be salads. Sorry cow, you have to die.

why not both? mmmmm.... had a burger and salad for lunch today.

as to what benji said about peta. Peta not only kills animals they also cause farmers to be unable to milk a cow. that cow then starts to hurt because of excessive buildup of milk.

One that amazes me is that animal rights activists would send you to jail for killing a Buzzard while saying women have the right to kill there own children in the womb. it makes no sense.
btw those turkey buzzards are endangered even though they kill farmers calves. I saw them try to kill one when i was a kid.

[shadowgrin]

buzzards are endangered even though they kill farmers calves. I saw them try to kill one when i was a kid.

Buzzards should be killed for being stupid and missing the correct target.

[Andrew]

If I had sum up the issue of animal rights in a trite phrase, it would be good and noble intentions, poor execution.

There's nothing wrong with being concerned with animal welfare and speaking out against animal cruelty but groups like PETA take it way too far to the point where they have no respect or regard for human rights. They trumpet the idea that animals should have the same rights humans do, yet place animal rights first which doesn't exactly say "same" or "equal" to me. They'll gladly step on everyone else's toes and dismiss the interests of other groups because they have nothing to do with their aims; a case of "We don't care about your cause, but you should definitely care about ours". They can certainly be an infuriating bunch.

[Laxation]

skim the OP and blurt out your obviously perfect opinion on the topic.

done and done

im with jao on this one, i love my meat and im not going to stop eating it because animals had to die for me to eat them.
its the food chain, we're near the top so nature says we get to eat what we want.

im sure cows don't mind their lives (whilst may be short) they get fed, have big paddocks to walk around in and moo, and farmers don't want to hurt them, because if they do, they stop eating, lose weight and therefore lose money.
i have no idea about other animals, but my gf's parents have a farm for the weekends where they raise cattle, and they taught me that about not scaring/hurting them.

fish are retarded and apparently can't feel pain, so nothing wrong with eating them. and pigs have 17 different kinds of meat, all of which rock, so they're gonna be eaten!

peta can go fuck themselves. from the car analogy from the other thread, peta is at least on top of the car, towards the bonnet somewhere. not quite pushing against it, but they're dam close.

[Repole]

I came here to read the NLSC forums to try and take my mind off the paper I have to write...about animal rights.

Thanks for nothing NLSC.

Also, I'm stealing everything anyone has said here and using it in my paper. Sure it will be incoherent and include plenty of cursing, but it's my blow off class. Plus, there's no way the NLSC is in their anti-plagiarism database.

[rise]

Haha, what if your teacher goes online and googles your essay...

[[Q]]

I have a pretty good knowledge of picking out meat (rawr) and pick based on eventual flavor. Is this wrong? Why are vegetables superior to animals? Is it wrong to eat certain species but not others? If we eat animals, why not humans?

anybody ever try duck meat? that stuff is 1000 times better than chicken. i don't understand the whole argument over eating intelligent creatures. people plain and simple don't like eating "cute" animals. i think if a group of people starting hunting and eating dolphins, there would be a mob started and they would be lynched or something

and when i eat meat, i always try to finish it all. i mean, if i got killed by someone/an animal for the purpose of food, it would suck to not get eaten and then thrown into a trash can.

[el badman]

anybody ever try duck meat? that stuff is 1000 times better than chicken.

Yup, duck is delicious. Lamb rules too. I don't care about their rights, they're just freaking good.

[puttincomputers]

PETA says animals have rights.
Animals have the right to eat animals.
Evolutionists say we are also animals.
Therefore according to evolutionists we may eat animals.

God says he created the world.
God says keep the earth in good shape but fill it with people at the same time.
God did not tell humans they could eat meat until after the flood*. (*The flood can be verified by unreached* tribes with their stories of a great flood and only 8 people and all animals being saved) (**unreached meaning christians have/had not reached them with the Good News yet before the tribe gave the account orally, or the account was discovered in ancient pictures drawn by dead people groups)
Thus according to God we may eat meat.

For us religious types its a double win, for both sides agree.

[Lamrock]

Yeah. For us rational types who don't believe in God™, this is a trickier topic though.

[[Q]]

anybody ever try duck meat? that stuff is 1000 times better than chicken.

Yup, duck is delicious. Lamb rules too. I don't care about their rights, they're just freaking good.

i've had lamb before but it was shredded pretty good so it was a little hard to tell what it really tastes like. reminded me of a pulled pork sandwich. i've seen bison burgers sold at the market. i'd like to try that too. i love the chinese style ducks hanging in the windows of shops in Little Saigon here. they smell so good as you walk by the shop

[Oznogrd]

God says he created the world.
God says keep the earth in good shape but fill it with people at the same time.
God did not tell humans they could eat meat until after the flood*. (*The flood can be verified by unreached* tribes with their stories of a great flood and only 8 people and all animals being saved) (**unreached meaning christians have/had not reached them with the Good News yet before the tribe gave the account orally, or the account was discovered in ancient pictures drawn by dead people groups)
Thus according to God we may eat meat.

Ever played the game telephone? You start with a message in front, and have everybody tell it to each other. Get through about 50 people? Totally different message.

The same is true of orally passed tradition. I've also been told there were dinosaurs on the ark when one dinosaur would've taken up 3/4 of the damn thing..so yeah..

[puttincomputers]

Can anyone tell me why a baby dino could not have been on the ark?

besides there is plenty of evidence that there are dinos around today.

can anyone tell me why the rhino could not be a dino?

[benji]

Because a rhino is a mammal and dinosaurs were reptiles? This isn't exactly crazy science stuff here, it's very basic division of animals on some simple components.

The extinction event that eliminated the dinosaurs didn't eliminate just the dinosaurs, what we have today stems from the survivors of that event. And it's part of why hysteria over the number of known species (which is, of course a fraction and mostly limited to land) dying off is just that, irrational hysteria.

To tie this back to some other aspects touched on in this thread, and others, there is this notion that there was some "perfect" state at some point and we must strive to restore or preserve it. This is why we strive to preserve endangered species until they become pests again. The hardcore environmentalist mindset is a conservative and religious one. There was an Eden, humanity ruined it, so humanity must thrash about denying evolution and changing climates or environments until things are "perfect." They willfully ignore that 99.9% of species that have existed in the history of the Earth no longer exist, and 99.9% of the species that exist today will not if one were to leap a million plus years into the future. It is a very self-centric view, no?

We won't even talk about the idea that when people want to use what deer and cows and bison and so on provide us, we setup methods to make sure we'll always have those. Cultures that had no property rights or "advanced" economic concepts, like the Native Americans, were on the brink of making the bison completely extinct before the Western European derived colonial cultures said "hey, there's profit to made here, only kill what you can afford!" (Hint: If the flood happened, it was a localized event reflected in the oral traditions of the people affected, the Earth didn't flood. We'd have evidence of that. You know, like massive volcanic eruptions leave.)

Oh, and the Ark didn't exist. A pair of dinosaurs could have been on it or not, but they weren't because it was not possible for man to assemble all the animals in one location. If God wanted to wipe the Earth clean and start over, why would he allow for its parasites to be preserved?

This of course ignores that man was a few million years late to being able to stock dinosaurs on the Ark. (Which, you know, preserved all the animals. No dinosaurs today = not on the Ark right?)

Now, had the Bible not ignored the dinosaurs we might have something to talk about. But they somehow missed that while telling the history of reality.

[shadowgrin]

Dinosaur eggs. Small. Compact. Can be carried in the ark or minivan. Speculative problem solved.

[benji]

Well, if you're so smart, explain why we had to extract the DNA from a mosquito trapped in amber?

HUH?

HUH?

Thought so.

[shadowgrin]

Because the mosquito came from the time before there was dino-AIDS. You wouldn't want to have a theme park full of gay dinosaurs now would you?

[benji]

I expected the homophobia from puttin, but not from you.

Especially after what we did a couple nights ago.

FOR SHAME.

For shame.

[shadowgrin]

I'm not homophobic. Unlike puttin, I believe that gays have a purpose in this world. Just like blacks are meant to pick cotton from the fields or mexicans to maintain the garden, so do gays have a use in society and that is to remind everyone that god punishes sinners.

[puttincomputers]

What proof do we have that all dinos were lizards?

[Andrew]

Because dinosaurs are, by definition and classification, lizards/reptiles.