Aussie gov't formally apologizes to Aborigines?

[[Q]]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080130/ap_on_re_as/australia_aborigines

hmm honestly I've never heard much on the subject, but I would imagine it was somewhat similar to the US's treatment of the natives here.
could any Aussies enlighten me on the subject?

[J@3]

Soft cocks. They should apologize to us for ruining every half decent park in major cities and single handedly causing a petrol shortage, not to mention the boom in the metholated spirits industry.

[Fitzy]

didnt rudd promise he was gonna apologise as a part of his PM campaign

[Ty-Land]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080130/ap_on_re_as/australia_aborigines

hmm honestly I've never heard much on the subject, but I would imagine it was somewhat similar to the US's treatment of the natives here.
could any Aussies enlighten me on the subject?

The treatment of aboriginals was far worse than the treatment of America's indigenous population as far as I know. Australia is the only country in the world to successfully complete a genocide, killing off the entire indigenous community that lived in Tasmania. No longer is there any pure bloods from the particular sub-culture of the Aboriginal population. This objective was achieved by marching them off cliffs at gun point, create a line of people across the state to capture them all, even skinning some of the victims and selling their skin to be used in clothing etc. The majority of this occurred before the existence of the Australian federal government, under the auspices of the British Colonial rule. Regardless, the proximity and continued treatment of the Aboriginal population warrants an apology regarding this from the current government.

The apology is really focussed on the Federal Governments attempt to assimilate the Aboriginal population into our (imported) 'white' (and hence superior according to the White Australia policy up until the early 1970s) culture. Primarily, this was attempted by stealing Aboriginal children away from their families and placing them in White households or government established bording schools. Aptly called the 'Stolen Generation', this is another act of genocide committed to destroy the various aboriginal cultures that could not be passed down from parents to their children. This had a devastating affect on the indigenous community, in many cases destroying families and traditions.

The significance of the Government saying 'sorry' is very symbolic to the aboriginal community, where movements that have been pushing for reconciliation will finally receive what they have been asking for. While their is a fear that this will open a door of legal battles seeking compensation, the govt. has taken measure to prevent such events transpiring. While I believe some compensation is required, I don't think it should be the excessive amounts likely to be passed on by the courts. Instead, the Federal and State governments should allocate resources to further restore the indigenous cultural legacies, and improve infrastructure in areas of high Aboriginal population especially in healthcare, employment and education. If the government fails to take this opportunity to improve relation with the indigenous population and improve their living conditions, I will wholeheartedly support the growing movement of Australians looking to take the Federal government to the International Criminal Court on charges of cultural genocide.

[Laxation]

Who gives a shit? What the fuck is an apology going to do? God dam I hate governments... wasting their time on this bullshit while we run out of water

[Ty-Land]

Who gives a shit? What the fuck is an apology going to do?

Signify that the Government in the past has wronged our indigenous population. If you felt any kind of empathy you would understand the significance of such a measure.

[J@3]

Typically, the paint sniffers now want financial compensation. Considering the garbage that goes on in those Aboriginal communities (sexually abusing children, rampant domestic abuse, rape, excessive alcoholism, .. I read an article once saying that one community was being given a petrol bowser in exchange for washing their kids faces properly. WTF!) they should be thankful we still acknowledge them as humans. I have never heard of, seen or come across a group of people who despite now living in a Westernized society, still live like cave men.

It's a shame because the great parts of Aboriginal culture have been all been virtually lost within thier "people". They'd rather spend their time collecting Centrelink and getting wasted instead.

[Ty-Land]

Typically, the paint sniffers now want financial compensation. Considering the garbage that goes on in those Aboriginal communities (sexually abusing children, rampant domestic abuse, rape, excessive alcoholism, .. I read an article once saying that one community was being given a petrol bowser in exchange for washing their kids faces properly. WTF!) they should be thankful we still acknowledge them as humans. I have never heard of, seen or come across a group of people who despite now living in a Westernized society, still live like cave men.

It's a shame because the great parts of Aboriginal culture have been all been virtually lost within thier "people". They'd rather spend their time collecting Centrelink and getting wasted instead.

No doubt there are severe problems in most (not all, which is a vast generalisation) indigenous communities. But these problems stem from several factors, inclusive of how colonial governments and federal governments have treated these people. You have to understand that these people are adapting to significant cultural changes which the rest of the modern world has adapted to in a natural process. Aboriginals have had to cope with this change in 200 years, not to mention all the other crap we have thrown at them. This is not to say they haven't made things hard on themselves. The media coverage of petrol sniffing, child abuse, rape, gang violence, alcoholism etc. shows the worse sides of the Aboriginal community. These things need to be addressed first and foremost by the Federal government, and it necessitates increased funding in the areas of greatest concern. These areas include education, healthcare, child welfare, employment, general infastructure and policing. Increasing funding in these areas is addressing the very issues that disgust you Jae.

Also, as I already stated, this move is NOT about financial compensation but recognition and symbolism. It is a chance to recognise the past and build from it. While the petrol sniffing/alcoholic/abusive members of the community probably do not deserve recognition, what about the indigenous people who are positive members of the community? Do they deserve the disrespect?

As far as I am concerned, the failure of the federal government to say 'sorry' to the Aboriginal people would be like Germany failing to acknowledge what happened in the holocaust. That is why this needs to happen, beyond anything else. The government needs to recognise, and show to the population and the rest of the world, what it done wrong by these people. Once this has occurred we can move towards reconciliation and positive advances in indigenous affairs (tackling the very problems mentioned above).

[benji]

Noting, that my knowledge of the Aboriginal situation is borderline non-existant.

These things need to be addressed first and foremost by the Federal government, and it necessitates increased funding in the areas of greatest concern. These areas include education, healthcare, child welfare, employment, general infastructure and policing. Increasing funding in these areas is addressing the very issues that disgust you Jae.

Why don't they address it themselves, as people and a community, taking responsibility for their apparent descent?

Do you really think they are so inferior they require the "enlightened" ones who run the government to manage their lives?

[Ty-Land]

Noting, that my knowledge of the Aboriginal situation is borderline non-existant.

These things need to be addressed first and foremost by the Federal government, and it necessitates increased funding in the areas of greatest concern. These areas include education, healthcare, child welfare, employment, general infastructure and policing. Increasing funding in these areas is addressing the very issues that disgust you Jae.

Why don't they address it themselves, as people and a community, taking responsibility for their apparent descent?

That's a good question, one that I don't really have an answer for. The situation in some areas though is so bad that the government needs to intervene. I find it appalling that groups like 'World Vision' have to advertise the plight of these people so they can get help. What is worse is some communities actually reject or resist any help provided.

Do you really think they are so inferior they require the "enlightened" ones who run the government to manage their lives?

It is far from a matter of inferiority, it is a humanitarian concern. The indigenous population has one of the highest rates of infant mortality in the world, not to mention a statistic disposition to alcoholism, suicide and substance abuse. Why this is so different from the remainder of the Australian population is not clear, but it needs to be looked at thoroughly. What is clear is the lack of education facilities and healthcare is not helping those suffering.

[benji]

it is a humanitarian concern.

Right, who it is that "needs the help" doesn't even matter. It's all about "helping" to make yourself feel better. To stand up and say "look how much I am helping!" To say, "I am so enlightened and caring, I save people daily."

That's why it's another of these "humanitarian concerns", right?

The situation in some areas though is so bad that the government needs to intervene. I find it appalling that groups like 'World Vision' have to advertise the plight of these people so they can get help. What is worse is some communities actually reject or resist any help provided.

You just know "the government MUST DO SOMETHING!" You have no idea why they are in the plight, you have no idea why they are rejecting being treated like helpless children, you just know the government has to manage them. For you are all knowing and enlightened, not like them, who are unfit to manage their own affairs. Just look at "these people", they're basically animals!

[Ty-Land]

it is a humanitarian concern.

Right, who it is that "needs the help" doesn't even matter. It's all about "helping" to make yourself feel better. To stand up and say "look how much I am helping!" To say, "I am so enlightened and caring, I save people daily."

It does matter who they are. They are Australian citizens who are suffering. It is not even about saving lives, it is about providing opportunities to a percentage of the population whom are in dire circumstance. It is about equality and providing basic human rights. The portion of indigenous population that are well off don't need our help, only those that aren't.

Just because I used your trigger word 'humanitarian' doesn't mean I'm looking for self-gratification in my political motives. Stop using your personal agenda to assume my intentions and motivations, and worst of all put words into my mouth. How do you not know I'm not of Aboriginal decent? That I'm wanting to help my own people.

The situation in some areas though is so bad that the government needs to intervene. I find it appalling that groups like 'World Vision' have to advertise the plight of these people so they can get help. What is worse is some communities actually reject or resist any help provided.

You just know "the government MUST DO SOMETHING!" You have no idea why they are in the plight, you have no idea why they are rejecting being treated like helpless children, you just know the government has to manage them. For you are all knowing and enlightened, not like them, who are unfit to manage their own affairs. Just look at "these people", they're basically animals!

Yes the government must do something, because the people are asking them to (and have been for years). One of newly elected PM Rudd's campaign promises was to say 'sorry'. (See, there's this thing called democracy - so this isn't one of your self-fulfilling searches for fascism)

Furthermore, they need to act to make up for years of cultural genocide. I would rather the government take initiative and act on the advice of Aboriginal leaders etc. to improve their communities rather than see the Federal Government taken to the ICC. It is not a matter of the government managing the indigenous population, it is a matter of doing what is in there best interests. This requires some action.

I surely question your ethics if you wish for these individuals to be treated as lesser beings because of their racial origins, rather than providing some resemblance of equality. My understanding of your argument is you would rather let them suffer as second-class citizens rather then the government try to help them. It is just their bad luck.

I can understand people having different opinions, but your attempts to attack those that don't follow the same ideology that you believe are a joke. Your callous attempts to portray me as selfishly motivated and racist is not only pathetic but unwarranted. Your uncanny ability to assume the basis of my positions, the motivating factors and my intentions shows your attempts to stereotype me as opposed to your thinking, and as a result you railroad this topic into you showing why the rest of us are wrong.

Fine, be strongly opinionated, but don't be a jerk.

[J@3]

They are in dire circumstance because they've put themselves there. They get so many government concessions because of their heritage, the way they use it can't be blamed on anyone but themselves. Limited access to education and hospitals is no excuse for alcoholism or sexual abuse, especially when that limited access is purely due to their desire to go live out in unpopulated areas that are too remote to even bother setting up those facilities to begin with.

Even that isn't an excuse, I've lived in two areas heavily populated by Aboriginals (Port Adelaide + Adelaide) and despite having more facilities than they could need, the problems still exist. Adelaide has a booze bus that drives around picking up drunken Aboriginals so they don't cause any trouble, the parks are always jam packed with Aboriginals drinking goon and trying to wash in the fountains. My uncle was the chief minister of the Northern Territory and he spent most of his term trying to help them, he is a blood brother in an Aboriginal tribe but it is just abundantly obvious that most of their problems are self created.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6236104.stm
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/ ... 953026.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2007/s2049936.htm

Makes me sick. I'm sure not all Aboriginals are alcoholic child molestors living in parks (it would be stupid to say they are) but I think they get too much of a free ride and are allowed to blame too many problems on things that happened two hundred years ago.

[benji]

It does matter who they are. They are Australian citizens who are suffering.

What about the others throughout the world then? They are lesser, for they are not Aussies? Is it the job of the Aussie government to right all the wrongs in the world? It should not discriminate against those who are not Aussies should it?

It is not even about saving lives, it is about providing opportunities to a percentage of the population whom are in dire circumstance. It is about equality and providing basic human rights. The portion of indigenous population that are well off don't need our help, only those that aren't.

How is it providing "opportunities" to force something down their throats they apparently don't want? How is it equality to treat them special because they "need our help"? Since when is "employment" and "welfare" a basic human right?

Just because I used your trigger word 'humanitarian' doesn't mean I'm looking for self-gratification in my political motives. Stop using your personal agenda to assume my intentions and motivations, and worst of all put words into my mouth. How do you not know I'm not of Aboriginal decent? That I'm wanting to help my own people.

What does that matter? You said it was a humanitarian concern. That focuses the attention on the one giving help. A human concern is caring about the people in need. I didn't put words in your mouth, you're the one who said it was a humanitarian concern.

Yes the government must do something, because the people are asking them to (and have been for years). One of newly elected PM Rudd's campaign promises was to say 'sorry'. (See, there's this thing called democracy - so this isn't one of your self-fulfilling searches for fascism)

I don't know why you want to make everything about me. That said. Fascism and democracy are not mutually exclusive. A fascist democracy is not contradictory. You said the people aren't asking for help, they are rejecting it.

Furthermore, they need to act to make up for years of cultural genocide.

Why is it the job of a government to "right" past "wrongs"?

It is not a matter of the government managing the indigenous population, it is a matter of doing what is in there best interests. This requires some action.

Who is deciding that it is in their best interests? What if it isn't in their best interests to tell them they are second class citizens who are helpless animals without the state?

I surely question your ethics if you wish for these individuals to be treated as lesser beings because of their racial origins, rather than providing some resemblance of equality. My understanding of your argument is you would rather let them suffer as second-class citizens rather then the government try to help them. It is just their bad luck.

That's equality. The government should not treat them special because of their ethnic origin. I do not wish for them to be treated as lesser, I believe they are entirely capable of achieving on their own. I do not believe they are so helpess they need the divine beings from Canberra to bring them blessings from the heavens. If only they worship the proper gods.

I can understand people having different opinions, but your attempts to attack those that don't follow the same ideology that you believe are a joke. Your callous attempts to portray me as selfishly motivated and racist is not only pathetic but unwarranted. Your uncanny ability to assume the basis of my positions, the motivating factors and my intentions shows your attempts to stereotype me as opposed to your thinking, and as a result you railroad this topic into you showing why the rest of us are wrong.

Fine, be strongly opinionated, but don't be a jerk.

Says the guy who calls people names.

You see "these people" as helpless. They need the state to provide them jobs, welfare, everything, because they are lesser. This is not equality. Infact, in your reply, you directly stated you don't want equality:

The portion of indigenous population that are well off don't need our help, only those that aren't.

You only want to provide government delivered benefits to the ones who "deserve" it. That is the exact opposite of equality.

If they are entitled to a job because of who they are, because they are "disadvantaged", what is not to make Jae entitled to a job, surely he can prove he is disadvantaged in some way? And if they have a right to a job, that requires a duty on someone else to provide it. And if they have a right to a job, they can reject it, what then? What if they all choose to not work? If they are entitled to a "standard of living", then they must be given welfare, paid to do nothing. And then what stops everyone from being entitled to this.

This is why the government is a protector, not a provider. When the state becomes a provider, only tyranny and corruption can follow.

Surely, "the government must act" is not the only solution.

I'm sorry that debate is "attack". I'm sorry that presupposing from declarations is "callous". I'm sorry that questioning declarations is "railroad[ing] this topic".

I must have needed more federal education funding.

[Laxation]

Who gives a shit? What the fuck is an apology going to do?

Signify that the Government in the past has wronged our indigenous population. If you felt any kind of empathy you would understand the significance of such a measure.

Dont give me that empathy crap... There is absolutely nothing this apology will accomplish. Nothing except a waste of time and money.

Ty, I get your point about something needing to be done. I dont agree, but I understand where you're coming from. Do you think apologising is going to fix ANY of the problems you were talking bout?

[The X]

They are in dire circumstance because they've put themselves there. They get so many government concessions because of their heritage, the way they use it can't be blamed on anyone but themselves. Limited access to education and hospitals is no excuse for alcoholism or sexual abuse, especially when that limited access is purely due to their desire to go live out in unpopulated areas that are too remote to even bother setting up those facilities to begin with..

Compared to the New Zealand Maori's, the Australian Aboriginals get nothing....the Maori's seem to buy a new sporting team every other week, before running it into the ground, then demanding more money off the NZ Government....it's never-ending....

as for the Aboriginals, they are strange compared to other indigenous people because they don't take advantage of the additional society benefits that are afforded to them....they gamble & drink the welfare money....they molest their children, nephews & nieces, who then you see down at the local train station sniffing petrol &/or glue....I know I'm generalising, but it's a reality....for every one that gets themselves out, it seems like 4 don't....

[Matt]

DELETED:

Ever post racial hate on this level again you will be banned. Any declaration to kill people on the basis of their racial heritage will not be tolerated. Consider this your only warning.

I have never read anything so disgusting on this forum before. Utter disgrace...

[Laxation]

DELETED:

Ever post racial hate on this level again you will be banned. Any declaration to kill people on the basis of their racial heritage will not be tolerated. Consider this your only warning.

I have never read anything so disgusting on this forum before. Utter disgrace...

ya'll got pwned!

(watd u say...)

[The X]

DELETED:

Ever post racial hate on this level again you will be banned. Any declaration to kill people on the basis of their racial heritage will not be tolerated. Consider this your only warning.

I have never read anything so disgusting on this forum before. Utter disgrace...

ya'll got pwned!

(watd u say...)

what he said was a bit over the top....I don't think he was being serious though, but still....I think he was speaking out of frustration with the whole situation....

as for me, I don't feel that strongly on the topic like members born in Australia....I'm of the opinion that it's time for them to stand on their own two feet & work towards making their culture proud again....

[J@3]

I have never read anything so disgusting on this forum before. Utter disgrace...

Lol you really haven't been around too long then

[benji]

Self-fulfilling huh?

[shadowgrin]

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2007/s2049936.htm

Reporter: Hamish Fitzsimmons

That name rules.
Even better than Jackal's

[J@3]

So, the apology was yesterday. Three hours later I was in town going to the train station where I see an Aboriginal guy in his mid 20's with a spray paint can in each hand and a blue plastic bag over his face in the middle of a bus depot surrounded by kids and elderly people. Pathetic.

[Fitzy]

geez...

the sad thing is the aboriginals arent just forgive and forget after yesterdays apology, like you would assume they would, there gonna keep howling and complaining for decades to come, and use the apology as a reason to take legal action now that its almost like australia saying that they are right.

[Patr1ck]

Three hours later I was in town going to the train station where I see an Aboriginal guy in his mid 20's with a spray paint can in each hand and a blue plastic bag over his face in the middle of a bus depot surrounded by kids and elderly people. Pathetic.

WTF?