Converse/D-Wade discussion (split from other thread)

[Indy]

These are just 3 examples from a small sample. The first one a guys thread gets locked because a moderator feels it's not a good topic (kobe going to an asian country)

I locked that thread because that poster had been making an abnormal amount of pointless threads.

[Matthew]

He made 4 threads. The other 3 were:

Robbery of Eddy Curry (21 replies)

San Antonio Spurs thread (8 replies)

New NBA slogan (34 replies)

Heh, yeah thats quite abnormal for NBA talk...

[Indy]

He made 4 threads. The other 3 were:

Robbery of Eddy Curry (21 replies)

San Antonio Spurs thread (8 replies)

New NBA slogan (34 replies)

Heh, yeah thats quite abnormal for NBA talk...

My mistake I thought it was the converse/d-wade poster that made that thread.

[---]

He made 4 threads. The other 3 were:

Robbery of Eddy Curry (21 replies)

San Antonio Spurs thread (8 replies)

New NBA slogan (34 replies)

Heh, yeah thats quite abnormal for NBA talk...

My mistake I thought it was the converse/d-wade poster that made that thread.

It was, I think Matthew only saw those 4 threads he created because they were all on the first page.

He's had:

Miami Heat Thread -Posey signs with Boston-
True or False?
Kobe to visit Asian Countries
Robbery at home of Knicks forward Eddy Curry
San Antonio Spurs thread
New NBA Slogan: Where amazing happens
Your 2007 NLSC NBA Photo of The Year
Teams that will make it at 08.
Mavs to sign Eddie Jones
Tour at NBA Players houses.D-Wade,CP3 and Shaq!
Cavs vs. Heat on Christmas Day,Sonics vs Nuggets opener
Say Cheese: Rookie Photo Shoot
Yao Ming's height is fake?
NBA Jerseys updates and news.PHX to wear glaciers.
Mo said Tuesday he wasn't serious about signing with Miami
Nuggets lose Blake,signs atkins
Fisher hopes return to L.A will soften Bryant's trade demand
Favorite Game-winners/Buzzer beaters
Mourning coming back for final season
Spalding balls,will live forever?
2007-08 NBA season thread
The Spurs are 2007 champs!(much more inside)
Kapono trey bon fit for Raptors
Nike vs. Adidas
NBA around the world
Colangelo to be named top NBA executive
Oklahoma Sonics?
The best PA Announcer
dwyane wade is back!
New Jersey Nets new court
NBA may take show on road
The Official NBA Scores Today Thread
Johnson's calf injury could end his season
Riley isn't underestimating value of draft pick this year
Billups,Grizz could fit
The Official Powerful Teams Thread
picture of wade's injury
Larry Brown to coach philly?
Reggie Miller Comeback?
Big names keep bags packed
ok guys,shaq is back!please give your comments about shaq
ESPN.COM: injuries
information says shaq will play between jan 10-20
Wade,heat win Christmas showdown

Those date back to December 25th 2006, and he was posting a thread every week or so which is fine, until he completely exploded and started posting new threads pretty much everyday. For example, every thread above and including "Yao Ming's height is fake" was posted within pretty much the last month. That seems like even more when you take into account that he hasn't been around in a couple of weeks and hasn't even posted in NBA Talk since August 26th - that Yao Ming thread was made on August 1st. I know NBA Talk is dead and almost anything would help, but his threads were pathetic and useless, and somehow managed to lower the overall quality of that forum.

[JT_55]

And Shannon, I cant see what is so greatly wrong with the majority of the posts he started.

I guess Shannon forgot to say that conversewade2.0's topics weren't all excatly stupid, but the fact that he wrote almost nothing in his own words, just a complete copy/paste of the articles without any opinion of the article. That's mainly the reason why most posters were pissed off at him.

[Ty-Land]

And Shannon, I cant see what is so greatly wrong with the majority of the posts he started.

I guess Shannon forgot to say that conversewade2.0's topics weren't all excatly stupid, but the fact that he wrote almost nothing in his own words, just a complete copy/paste of the articles without any opinion of the article. That's mainly the reason why most posters were pissed off at him.

Not to mention he would do this cutting and pasting without giving any sort of opinion on the discussion, and often would never return to the topic again to contribute.

[benji]

He was an easy target as his software did not allow him to respond properly. And now he is a strawman.

A lot of posters on here do not actually make arguments or post opinions. There is nothing wrong with posting an article and letting others post opinions on it.

Some of the threads are silly yes, but no sillier than a lot of the other threads people make here and on all other forums in the interwebs. Too many of them had people coming in and insulting converse right away which probably had a "chilling" effect on anyone who might want to actually post on the topic.

If people did not like the threads he was making they should have just not posted instead of posting "converse again? " or "mods, can we ban please?" If there was a moderator failing, it was not on not banning converse for posting topics his software said we would be interested in, it was in not reigning in all the personal attacking of the guy/robot.

EDIT: Ty-Land, you repeated what JT already said.

[Ty-Land]

The thing is, for starters, he wasn't a bot. He PM'd me several times to tell me he wasn't and that he took offence when we kept calling him that. Secondly, the moderators and Lean asked him on numerous occasions to change the way he was posting as to trigger discussion, not resentment at his presence here. Did he change? Slightly, but not enough to make people think that he was trying to start a conversation on topic X rather than build up his post count or start pointless threads.

Personally I think he deserved a lot of the attacks. If he was that incapable of listening to our advice and changing, then that's just part of the deal. I mean the guy posted hundreds of single comment replies to threads he had no interest in. Stupid stuff like 'Thanks for the patch ' or 'Ok ' were so redundant. We told him to stop, and deleted his posts to show him that it wasn't acceptable but he never changed.

A lot of posters on here do not actually make arguments or post opinions. There is nothing wrong with posting an article and letting others post opinions on it.

No other posters take information from other sites and try to pass it off as their own either. That was the key difference. It wasn't like 'Posey signs with Boston' what do you think? I think blah blah. It was just a posting of information we could read on the realgm wiretap. Most people post and start threads here with a certain intention or purpose, but for him it seemed like he was posting to boost his point count and/or be a pain in the arse.

[---]

And Shannon, I cant see what is so greatly wrong with the majority of the posts he started.

I know a bunch of his threads were absolutely fine, but the fact he posted so, so much and almost only when starting a new thread or posting in his own threads. The fact that his first few threads were terrible and made no sense means he got off on the wrong foot and already had people against him.

Sorry to put up this whole list again, but I'm gonna give my opinion on each one.

Miami Heat Thread -Posey signs with Boston- - Fine, even though "Official Threads" are one of the reasons NBA Talk is so dead.

True or False? - I didn't like this one, there was no discussion involved, just a quick post and a new question.

Kobe to visit Asian Countries - Fine.

Robbery at home of Knicks forward Eddy Curry - Fine.

San Antonio Spurs thread - Fine, but as above with the Miami Heat thread.

New NBA Slogan: Where amazing happens - Fine.

Your 2007 NLSC NBA Photo of The Year - Sorta retarded, just post your favorite picture. Not even a selection of photos to chose from, like the actual contest does.

Teams that will make it at 08. - Fine, but his original post killed this thread. He had pretty much every team making the playoffs. When you start a thread on something that is very much acceptable, then say something completely retarded, people are gonna jump down your throat.

Mavs to sign Eddie Jones - Fine. Until he tried changing it to an Official Dallas Mavericks thread.

Tour at NBA Players houses.D-Wade,CP3 and Shaq! - Pretty bad thread. He posted pictures of NBA Players houses like he was giving a tour. I didn't really see the point in it but it wasn't the worth thread of all time or nothing like that.

Cavs vs. Heat on Christmas Day,Sonics vs Nuggets opener - Doesn't really have much of a point. Doesn't start any in depth discussion and was pretty minor news.

Say Cheese: Rookie Photo Shoot - Fine. But once again, he asked for this thread to go down the drain when he said "This photo is memorable,symbolizing the importance of rookies." under a pretty damn normal group photo of the rooks.

Yao Ming's height is fake? - Absolutely retarded. Nate cannot block Yao because they aren't the same height.

NBA Jerseys updates and news.PHX to wear glaciers. - As if we don't know what teams wear what. That and he actually thought those "Glacier" jerseys were gonna be used in games.

Mo said Tuesday he wasn't serious about signing with Miami - Minor news and didn't really make sense. He also made up contract numbers and compared them when they weren't even the real figures.

Nuggets lose Blake,signs atkins - Fine, but as with alot of his threads, just copied and pasted without giving his own opinion or even making the article a "quote" and adding a link.

Fisher hopes return to L.A will soften Bryant's trade demand - Fine, but as above.

Favorite Game-winners/Buzzer beaters - Good thread.

Mourning coming back for final season - Fine.

Spalding balls,will live forever? - Made no sense and had no point.

2007-08 NBA season thread - Attempted to have everything that needed to be posted about an entire season in one thread. Worst "Official" thread I've ever seen. Copied and pasted from Wikipedia on the 07/08 season.

The Spurs are 2007 champs!(much more inside) - Fine.

Kapono trey bon fit for Raptors - I believe it was another copied/pasted article. It was a pretty normal thread and there was nothing wrong with it, but it was moved to the offficial Raptors thread were I think it was being discussed already.

Nike vs. Adidas - Fine, but in the wrong section.

NBA around the world - Copied/pasted the international section of NBA.com, even forgetting to cut the ads out from the bottom. Made no sense at all and had no point to it. Not a single word was from him, and the way he pasted it even the NBA's words didn't make sense.

Colangelo to be named top NBA executive - Another copy/paste job.

Oklahoma Sonics? - Two links to the stories and some wierd smilies for good measure.

The best PA Announcer - Good thread.

dwyane wade is back! - All he said was "d-wade is back!". He then proceeded to just say "wade go!". After Tyland told him to stop spamming, he said sorruy and that he would not do it again. His next post was "hey he's back!". Wow.

New Jersey Nets new court - Decent thread, just a usual news thread.

NBA may take show on road - Another copied/pasted article with no source.

The Official NBA Scores Today Thread - Seeing that the NLSC is the number one source for people wanting to know the results of of the days NBA games, Dwyane found it fitting to post this. It was locked up pretty quick, considering there are websites like NBA.com and ESPN.com.

Johnson's calf injury could end his season - Copy/paste.

Riley isn't underestimating value of draft pick this year - Copy/paste.

Billups,Grizz could fit - Copy/paste.

The Official Powerful Teams Thread - It's one thing to start a thread about "powerful teams" and not give an ounce of opinion. It's another to make it the "Official" Powerful Teams thread.

picture of wade's injury - A picture of Dwyane Wade just before he was injured, with the words "how do you describe this" next to it. Genius.

Larry Brown to coach philly? - Again, never gave his opinion. Just asked for others. Still nothing really wrong with the thread itself, just that if the forum is dead you should be giving your own opinion to start discussion.

Reggie Miller Comeback? - Fine.

Big names keep bags packed - Just a link to a article with nothing else.

ok guys,shaq is back!please give your comments about shaq - Fine.

ESPN.COM: injuries - Worst thread I have ever seen in my life. Read it for yourself - http://www.nbaliveforums.com/ftopic45490.php. I think BHZMAFIA's post summed it up best - "When I scrolled down, I thought I was in the Matrix or something."

information says shaq will play between jan 10-20 - Stupid thread. "information says shaq will play between jan 10-20......he will have been recovered that day."

Wade,heat win Christmas showdown - First post - "Dwyane Wade scored 40 points and dished out 11 assists to carry his team to a 85-101 victory over the lakers.Shaq the bastard did not play due to injury." Second - "Miami improves to 13-14....The bastard is expected to play mid january......".

So there we have it. By my count, 24 of his 44 threads were acceptable. However, a very small fraction of those included his own words or opinion. On top of that, even less (probably around 3-4) were actually good threads. I don't care if NBA Talk is dead, if you're gonna make 44 threads within a pretty short span of time, more than 24 have to be acceptable and more than 3-4 of those acceptable ones must be good. They weren't, and I feel he only made NBA Talk worse.

[benji]

Crap:

Miami Heat Thread -Posey signs with Boston- - Fine, even though "Official Threads" are one of the reasons NBA Talk is so dead.

Well, people had been complaining when he was making threads for every transaction, so he made one to put all the Heat ones in one thread...I can see why converse created "official" threads considering how much people were pushing them and demanding they be the only places teams were discussed.

Cavs vs. Heat on Christmas Day,Sonics vs Nuggets opener - Doesn't really have much of a point. Doesn't start any in depth discussion and was pretty minor news.
Nuggets lose Blake,signs atkins - Fine, but as with alot of his threads, just copied and pasted without giving his own opinion or even making the article a "quote" and adding a link.
Larry Brown to coach philly? - Again, never gave his opinion. Just asked for others. Still nothing really wrong with the thread itself, just that if the forum is dead you should be giving your own opinion to start discussion.
However, a very small fraction of those included his own words or opinion.

I was not aware there was a rule mandating the posting of your own opinion. I will often post something to solicit the opinions of others before presenting my own.

NBA Jerseys updates and news.PHX to wear glaciers. - As if we don't know what teams wear what. That and he actually thought those "Glacier" jerseys were gonna be used in games.

I did not know it was a bannable offense to be wrong or not know something.

I don't care if NBA Talk is dead, if you're gonna make 44 threads within a pretty short span of time, more than 24 have to be acceptable and more than 3-4 of those acceptable ones must be good.

Oh, they must? And who are going to be the arbiters of judging whether or not someone is making "good" threads or not? And the punishment for not making a "good" thread is a ban?

They weren't, and I feel he only made NBA Talk worse.

If people had simply ignored the bad topics and used the news ones to post their opinions in, instead of ganging up on converse to make themselves look cool, it would not have been a negative. Nor "ruined" the forum like the hyperbole spewed out.

Substance:

Personally I think he deserved a lot of the attacks. If he was that incapable of listening to our advice and changing, then that's just part of the deal.

So, if someone makes threads that other people are not interested in, and is not a "fun" poster, they should be banned. And it is perfectly fine to flame and insult said posters and keep calling for that persons' ban. If you are moderating in that manner, I not sure you should be a moderator. The insulters are the one breaking the rules, if they do not stop, they are the ones who should be punished, not the victim of their insults. Irregardless of whether you believe that victim to deserve it or not.

I didn't know it was a moderators job to let people get personally attacked for being stupid.

We told him to stop, and deleted his posts to show him that it wasn't acceptable but he never changed.

But you do not treat all the other people who make stupid single comment replies to threads they have no interest in this way. (As judged by you.) Are you going around deleting every post you consider stupid and waiving the banhammer over their heads? Are you casting a blind eye, or supporting open rule violations, while members insult/flame all users? Just because people found converse annoying, or stupid, or posting too many threads (while complaining about the lack of posters) that makes it alright for him to be a scapegoat, threatened with bans, and insulted constantly?

No other posters take information from other sites and try to pass it off as their own either.

Plenty have, but I doubt converse was passing it off as if he had done it, instead of not understanding how to quote things. Most forum users do not understand this. Even so, it is not grounds for ban, or gang mentalities against him.

It wasn't like 'Posey signs with Boston' what do you think? I think blah blah. It was just a posting of information we could read on the realgm wiretap.

Everything you see on this forum could possibly be found elsewhere. Are we deciding we should ban and insult people who post the latest Live screenshots? I mean, they can be found on IGN. I do not see any requirement that posters on this forum MUST post an opinion regarding everything. Why can they not say "hey, I think you might want to see this"?

Most people post and start threads here with a certain intention or purpose, but for him it seemed like he was posting to boost his point count and/or be a pain in the arse.

First, how are those last two not a purpose? Second, how can you assume either of them? From what he posted, I got the intention it was more of a "hey, check this out" thing with most of his posts. Not "I am going to post this so my post count goes up while pissing off everyone!" Just because you found converse to be a pain in the ass, that does not mean he could only possess malicious intent when posting threads.

Either way, there is no rule requiring someone to have and post an opinion every time they post. There is no rule mandating a certain purpose for posting on the forum. There is no rule against copy/pasting an article, or failing to properly generate discussion.

Because the "veterans" were cool, they were allowed to breach the rules, and gang up on someone. A lot of people on this forum have developed an inclusive mentality, converse was an outsider trying to break into the group, so he needs to be knocked down when he does something not approved of by the elite class. Too many threads are making things unruley, so we need to consolidate them into threads that dissuade newbies from interfering. It is a problem when someone does not post an opinion, and it is also a problem when someone posts too many opinions and makes threads too long. We want "discussion and debate" without questioning others opinions. The problem is not us, it is those people not posting enough and those people posting too much that we don't like.

[JT_55]

benji, why do you always bring up a huge quote post every time Shannon says something? Don't even you think this is a bit overreaction. In the stats arugment, fine. Shannon never said he should be banned, but you keep saying what converse did isn't a bannable offense. WTF? If you don't agree with me, say whatever you want to me but be warned I'm not going to respond to encourage you to keep doing this, and if I respond you will continue.

it is also a problem when someone posts too many opinions and makes threads too long

Word.

[benji]

What the hell is wrong with you?

I hope you were not serious with that post.

[bigh0rt]

Just in reply to JT, the moderation team was receiving almost daily requests to ban Converse for various reasons. It got to the point where every time the guy posted, certain members felt the need to turn the rest of the thread into a flame fest of the guy regardless of what he had said, bringing further animosity towards him by no doing of his own. That's certainly not doing anything to improve the forum, I assure you. Converse was very tool-like in his own right, and received a warning via PM from a moderator (Ty-Land, I believe said he did, after I asked the team if anybody had done so yet) to change some of his posting habits, and then a warning from Andrew himself. To the best of my knowledge, he hasn't caused any commotion since then; but in my defense, I haven't been overly present here, so I could be wrong.

As for some of the other ridiculous claims I've seen made with regard to the threads started in NBA Talk, my opinion is, just stop. It's an absurd claim to say somebody shouldn't (or can't even) post a link to an article or a portion of an article with a link, etc. and not leave their opinion, and that should somehow be looked down upon or even consequenced. Who cares, honestly? The content is there, and it's up to the rest of the forum to decide if it's worth talking about or not. Hell, I posted an article the other day in General about the Amish giving money to a shooter's family... I left a link, half a sentence, and left it at that. Why should I be required to do anything else? Last I checked it had like 2 replies, so people obviously weren't feeling it -- but the notion that it's in any way unacceptable is just silliness. Stop being so catty. We don't need people policing threads and being so judgemental; we have a moderation team set in place for that -- and even if we have to step up our game on that front, we still don't need armchair moderating going on.

I'm done rambling.

[iG®]

[JT_55]

bigh0rt:

Well, the thing about posting an article without opinions is that people get the feeling nbalive07 is just trying to boost his post count and not contributing. I could go on ESPN right now, find every article available from every section, copy/paste on here, and have 10 free posts in the headlines just like that. Do it for a while and Andrew is going to be overtaken. However tempted I am, I'm not going to actually do it. Some people already told him to think a bit more while posting and cut down on the topics, but he didn't listen and that's why people turned against him. It's not that posting "empty" topics against the rules, idoing it repeatedly is plain stupid. There's a point on the line where some people feel that it's overdone, and apparently most people have felt he has crossed it, but you and benji have felt otherwise, and that's fine. You brought up your own topic which had almost no opinion, and the fact is, you don't do that all the time, and people don't fault that.

I'll figure out what IpaSso.soR's video means by sometime in the next year, so I give up. It's not like Andrew goes around beating on users.

[benji]

That's not against the rules and reason for a ban. Insulting and flaming him is.

And what is the deal with your post up there? Were you serious with it?

[JT_55]

It's not that posting "empty" topics against the rules

Does that in any way say to you that I think it's for a ban, or are you refering to other posts I made in a different thread.

And what is the deal with your post up there? Were you serious with it?

Great. I guess my sarcasm is really that bad. Still, it's true you always make a huge post every time Shannon says something...

[benji]

Alright, so what are you saying should have been done? We were talking about the people who wanted him banned and wasted all our time, and actually ruined threads, insulting him over and over.

Still, it's true you always make a huge post every time Shannon says something...

Um, no, it's not.

[---]

I can see where you're coming from Benji and I do think alot of us overreacted (myself included) and should of just left him, but he made some pretty damn bad threads.

I'm not the authority on what thread is good and what isn't, but in my opinion Converse was one of the worst posters I've seen during my time here, and his posts never helped NBA Talk a bit. He dumbed that place down pretty bad IMO.

I don't know if he was banned or what, but I wouldn't say what he did deserved a ban. He just needed to have it drilled into his head that we don't want to scroll through a billion pages of unreadable injury reports.

[J@3]

it is also a problem when someone posts too many opinions and makes threads too long

Word.

Was that serious or sarcastic?

[JT_55]

Look at it this way. As bigh0rt said, "the moderation team was receiving almost daily requests to ban Converse for various reasons", not people asking for him to be banned just for making too many threads. I didn't approve of him not only because of his thread-making habits, but also needlessly bumping many threads as well as making comments that are non-related or contributing to the topic. Some of you ask, why do you think gil_zero should be banned for making a lot of threads, but it's the other things combined. I don't think I need to quote the rules to say that mindlessly bumping a thread and making one or two word posts is frowned apon.

it is also a problem when someone posts too many opinions and makes threads too long

Word.

Was that serious or sarcastic?

To quote myself again...

my sarcasm is really that bad

. Yes, I was sarcastic, considering that benji made one of the long posts in this thread.

Shannon: if you don't like his threads, treat it as spam-email.

[---]

Shannon: if you don't like his threads, treat it as spam-email.

I will (if he starts posting again), but if some people (I'm sure it's not just me that doesn't like his threads) have to treat his posts in NBA Talk as spam email - does it really belong there?

Anyway I don't mind what happens. I have never asked for him to be banned, but I wouldn't care if he was. Same thing the other way, I don't care if he stays. I just feel that alot of his posts are the low point of NBA Talk.

[shadowgrin]

Where did you get that lpasSo.soR?
Film? TV show? Commercial?

The guy with the moustache is badass.

[bigh0rt]

Look at it this way. As bigh0rt said, "the moderation team was receiving almost daily requests to ban Converse for various reasons", not people asking for him to be banned just for making too many threads.

I didn't get my point across, I don't think. Hell, I alone have gotten countless PM requests (at times, daily) to ban people like Shannon, Jackal, Shadowgrin, cklitsie, Joe, and countless other forum members for an uncountable amount of reasons ranging from reasonable to completely absurd (members named simply ones I can remember off the top of my head). Converse was no different. If he deserved to be banned, he would have been instantly. Period. What I'm trying to get across is a bunch of e-mails doesn't necessarily mean any action at all needs to be taken. I've gotten near identical PMs asking to ban members for completely different things with completely different personalities who I have completely different views on. As I said previously, had I noticed or been given any reason to legitimately ban Converse, or anyone else, I would've done so immediately.

[Jackal]

Me? Really? I mean Shadow, Joe and Shannon I get, but me? What in heavens name for?

I'm like that stray pussycat in the ally. All cute and wet. Wet. Wet all the time. Very wet.

Where's Riot?