Hussein family's torture tools unveiled.

[EGarrett]

Just figured I'd post this one before Ben.

But, of course, Bush is an idiot for removing these people from power, right?

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article ... 4109990001

[alexboom]

Bush would have never given it a fook if there were no economical reason in making the war. I was for the war in Irak, Saddam needed to be dismissed but I don't like the way Bush took everyone for fools saying he send his army there for freedom etc

[hmm]

.......

[Andrew]

That of course brings up the old question of "does the end justify the means?" It could be argued that it wasn't the Bush Administration's place to overthrow Saddam and overhaul Iraq's political system and the means of doing so certainly placed the citizens of Iraq at risk, but putting an end to Saddam's power isn't such a bad thing.

[hmm]

.......

[Andrew]

I know. I was just asking the question, does the end justify the means? Even though it wasn't Bush's responsibility to change Iraq's government and get rid of Saddam, getting rid of Saddam wasn't such a bad idea. Therefore, some might argue that the end does justify the means, even though the means involved going against the UN's wishes and caused unrest for the civilian population.

Some might argue that. It seems kind of callous to me.

[matmat8]

You have to remember it was Bush.Sr who put Saddam as Irak dictator.

[Matthew]

it wasnt Bush's business to remove them. i fucking hate Saddam and his family as they are pure terrorists. Feeding the kamikaze terrorists ,who made attacks on my country and israel. But it was still not Bush's business to remove them. What does he think he is ? Protector of the world ?

But yet when america doesnt do anything to help other countries, he gets criticised "oh why doesnt america do anything "

i wonder if he would do it if there was no oil in iraq.

Then explain afganistan. I'm sure the us are gaining so much... dirt.

[hmm]

.......

[Jackal]

it wasnt Bush's business to remove them.

Enlighten me as to who's buisness it was to remove him from his regime of chaos. Enlighten me, and don't you say I don't know.

[Jay-Peso]

In my opinion, something had to be done. Say what you want about Bush, he removed Hussein from power and I agree with whar he did there.

[benji]

You have to remember it was Bush.Sr who put Saddam as Irak dictator.

Really? I must have missed Saddam seizing power in the late 60's when Herbert Walker was also President.

Oh. Wait. That's right, it didn't happen.

Therefore, some might argue that the end does justify the means, even though the means involved going against the UN's wishes

And those people would be wrong. Since:
1. The United Nations did find Iraq in violation numerous times. Including as late as 2002 before the battle.
2. The cease fire was broken by Saddam in 1991 when he fired on planes in the No Fly Zone. Creating a state of war between Iraq and us.

cmon man ! Think it. He needed a base. Afghanistan was too weak. And he easily captured it and using as a base.

Because a landlocked country with Iran in the way is the perfect place for a base of operations against Iraq. It had nothing to do with the Taliban or al Qaeda.

Of course...now Iran is surrounded...

Bush would have never given it a fook if there were no economical reason in making the war. I was for the war in Irak, Saddam needed to be dismissed but I don't like the way Bush took everyone for fools saying he send his army there for freedom etc

How do you know he didn't? Going into Iraq was the biggest risk Bush could've taken.

[EGarrett]

Bush would have never given it a fook if there were no economical reason in making the war. I was for the war in Irak, Saddam needed to be dismissed but I don't like the way Bush took everyone for fools saying he send his army there for freedom etc

...and the cops wouldn't give a fook about my car being stolen if they weren't being paid to do so. But when they get it back I'm thankful. You're still performing a service to society even if you also benefit. Is he supposed to be like a living Jesus?

[alexboom]

i don't think most of cops do their jobs for money. Money only help them to live while doing their jobs, if it was only for money it would be bribe everywhere (i'm sure there is some bribe, not everywhere). Bush never invaded Iraq for the sake of freedom like he always pretended. I was pretty pro war in Iraq but damn, did Bush needed to be so mean?

[hmm]

................................................

[Jackal]

See Homer, this is the BIGGEST reason your opinions aren't valued by a single person on this forum.

You make comments that piss people off, yet when asked to elaborate, you have nothing to back your statement up.

[Homer]

.

[matmat8]

You have to remember it was Bush.Sr who put Saddam as Irak dictator.

Really? I must have missed Saddam seizing power in the late 60's when Herbert Walker was also President.

Oh. Wait. That's right, it didn't happen.

Umm yes it did happen,who do you think let Saddam take over Irak after the previous war?

[emadhn15]

If removing Saddam from power didnt take lives of thousands and thousands innocent civilians in iraq. I would be 100 % Pro War in Iraq. But since many Iraqis died and suffered because of the war, and it is almost never even said in any American news channel; then something isnt right here...

[Jackal]

If removing Saddam from power didnt take lives of thousands and thousands innocent civilians in iraq. I would be 100 % Pro War in Iraq. But since many Iraqis died and suffered because of the war, and it is almost never even said in any American news channel; then something isnt right here...

It's a part of war. Deal with it.

Name one war in history in which "innocent lives" weren't wasted.

If Iraqi civillians "died & suffered" as you said, so did the Coalition Soldiers.

I bet more civillians died during Saddam's regime in a more brutal fashion than during the war.
To gain something, you must be willing to give up something.

Irak is free. Don't forget that.

Have you any idea what it must feel like being able to go to sleep and be assured you can say whatever it is you feel like tomorrow? To have a feeling of freedom? They were prisoners in their own country.
Better yet, do you have any idea how it feels like to go to sleep without having to be afraid? Yes, you know that feeling, what do we have to fear? Those people cherish that feeling alot more than we do and ever will.

[matmat8]

It's part of the war? Go and say that to the Iraqi's.

Irak is free? No it isn't it's under control, under US control. If you don't know there are many groups fighting to take over Iraq now. They are not free.

For the rest I agree we might never know what it feels like living with a dictatorship.

And again why do you think Saddam took over Iraq after the previous war? They let him, unfornately it got out of control.

[benji]

I was pretty pro war in Iraq but damn, did Bush needed to be so mean?

When was he mean? And what do you mean "mean"? Mean, when he took down Saddam and the Taliban? Mean, when he decided to forget France which was attempting to undermine the war?

i find removing Saddam as right and a good job.But i find the actions of US soldiers not so good. (exp. torture,raping...)

You're mistaken. The raping and torture was under Saddam. Five or six of our soldiers HUMILATED some criminals. They will be punished. Just like we punished the Hussein regime. Well, maybe not like we punished the Sons.

Umm yes it did happen,who do you think let Saddam take over Irak after the previous war?

Wow. You need to go learn some history kiddo. The "previous war" was in 1991. WHEN SADDAM HAD ALREADY RULED IRAQ FOR 20+ YEARS.

. But since many Iraqis died and suffered because of the war, and it is almost never even said in any American news channel; then something isnt right here...

It's on nearly all the god damn time. The only thing that's not fucking on is all the good things we're doing. I have to go OUTSIDE the American news channels to learn about the skewls, learn about the hospitals, etc. etc.

I bet more civillians died during Saddam's regime in a more brutal fashion than during the war.

Over a million Iraqi's (+ countless Kuwaitis and Iranians) died during Saddam's rule. The HIGHEST estimate (from a fervent pro-Saddam organization) says 30,000.

Irak is free? No it isn't it's under control, under US control. If you don't know there are many groups fighting to take over Iraq now. They are not free.

What about that there transfer of power? There aren't "many groups," it's not a civil war. There are groups of terrorist thugs who are attempting to collapse the new Iraqi government, which we are militarily supporting, so they can re-seize power and set up an Iranian style tyranny.

And again why do you think Saddam took over Iraq after the previous war? They let him, unfornately it got out of control.

Where did you get this crazy idea that Saddam took over Iraq after the Gulf War? How did Saddam launch a war against Iran in the 80s if he wasn't in power until after the Gulf War? How did Saddam rise to power in 1979 after taking over the Ba'ath party which led a coup in 1968 if he wasn't in power until 1991?

We had to fight this war. It wasn't for "oil," it wasn't for Halliburton (who has had three straight quarters of LOSSES...while The Nation has tripled profits) it was because Iraq was the next logical battlefield in this war.

[matmat8]

Im saying Saddam took over the country after the gulf war because US let him. Same for the 20 previous years, did i mention he wasn't there before, no. When it got out of control they went to war and they did the same mistake.

Transfer to power? Stop watching the news. There is no transfer of power. US is setting up a government they want, that seems appropriate to them, not Iraqi's, at least not the major part of them.

The groups i mentionned are not terrorists they are just civilians with different religions. Don't know the names in english.

You had to fight this war? Why this country, all of sudden US is helping everybody out.
How about Korea? Oh, maybe it's not a dictatorship.
Fighting for the rights of other people?
How about Africa with all the dictators elected with 99% of the votes.
How about all the genocides?

A war is nevezr "logical" to me.

[emadhn15]

It's on nearly all the god damn time. The only thing that's not fucking on is all the good things we're doing. I have to go OUTSIDE the American news channels to learn about the skewls, learn about the hospitals, etc. etc.

Do u even watch tv??

When was he mean? And what do you mean "mean"? Mean, when he took down Saddam and the Taliban? Mean, when he decided to forget France which was attempting to undermine the war?

oh, so this is what ur saying bush must do. Fuck each country up just because they oppose the war.. G/J


This war was never justified. It was opposed by the UN and alot of countries, Plus they never found any WMD, PLUS tell me how or when in the world did Saddam threaten the USA. If Bush went to war because he felt bad about the people that are being killed and tortured in Iraq, then there are 100's of other countries worst..

[Jackal]

It's part of the war? Go and say that to the Iraqi's.

Irak is free? No it isn't it's under control, under US control. If you don't know there are many groups fighting to take over Iraq now. They are not free.

Let me put it this way, they are free'er than they were with Saddam. They are allowed to choose their own government. Don't say they can't.

Go say that to the Iraqi's? Why? I think they know that by now, why would I have to tell them that? I think they have enough brains to comprehend that it's give and take. People die everyday, it's not fair. What can you do about? Nothing.

These people died for the sake of freedom.
There are millions of people that die every day, no one mentions that.

Please, stop whining about the deaths, it's a part of war, deal with it.

oh, so this is what ur saying bush must do. Fuck each country up just because they oppose the war.. G/J

Bush fucked up France? When? I must've missed this, I apologise.

Oh, the U.N. just let Bush single handedly "fucked France up"? Good job as you put it.

He didn't fuck up anything, he just told France to go fuck themselves. Woopity fucking doo that they did not participate, does that make them better? How so? I think it makes them worse, they would've let those people in Iraq suffer. Good job again.