Public Figures & Public Displays of Religion

[Houndy]

I'm pretty sure the truth is one God fool

[shadowgrin]

Have you even read the whole 'chapters' puttin instead of singling out 'verses' in those links you posted?

http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/098.asp
98:6 Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures.

Those who don't believe in [insert deity here] are bound to hell? Good thing Christianity doesn't have anything similar to that belief...oh wait...

http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/009.asp
9:73 O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.

9:74 They swear by Allah that they said nothing (evil), but indeed they uttered blasphemy, and they did it after accepting Islam; and they meditated a plot which they were unable to carry out: this revenge of theirs was (their) only return for the bounty with which Allah and His Apostle had enriched them! If they repent, it will be best for them; but if they turn back (to their evil ways), Allah will punish them with a grievous penalty in this life and in the Hereafter: They shall have none on earth to protect or help them.

It really helps to understand things if you read a great part of it and not just pick out parts to your liking.

http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/002.asp
2:64 But ye turned back thereafter: Had it not been for the Grace and Mercy of Allah to you, ye had surely been among the lost.

2:65 And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath: We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected."

2:66 So We made it an example to their own time and to their posterity, and a lesson to those who fear Allah.

Here's an interesting one I found from the same link you provided...

2:62 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

Wow. Made it bigger so puttin can read it.

http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/059.asp
59:14 They will not fight you (even) together, except in fortified townships, or from behind walls. Strong is their fighting (spirit) amongst themselves: thou wouldst think they were united, but their hearts are divided: that is because they are a people devoid of wisdom.

What's your point with that verse?
"It really helps to understand things if you read a great part of it and not just pick out parts to your liking."

Do you see how even the muslim wannabes have hatred of Jews and Christians and even other faiths and non faiths within their Quran?

I still fail to see what the fuck you are talking about and thus you're still a bigoted idiot to me. (Yes, I'm aware of the potential irony with that statement)


For the lulz...

they are just like the supposed christians who twist the bible

Oh, and please address benji and el badman's queries. I'm interested in what you have to say about it.

[x-uNdErRaTeD-z]

You're against Judaism now? Anti-Semite!
What's next, the Holocaust didn't happen?

The main goal for us Christians is to save each one of you in this earth so when judgement day comes, you don't go with Satan to hell. That's what our goal is and so you could have ever lasting life. You may not believe it but that's probably what Durant has been taught throughout his life and now he is applying what he has been taught into his life using it to his advantage. Makes sense?

That's just fucked up arrogant.
Who are you (or religions in general) to declare that people live a sinful life?
Only God or Billy Mays can rightfully judge people.


Love Jae's post. lol

I am not literally judging you. My bad on that, I didn't fully explain myself. We are ALL sinners including Christians. There's NOT one perfect human in this earth and we as Christians must do our best to be sin-free or least close to that. We have to make a personal relationship with God and let him use us in his ways so we bring more people into Christ. Once we do that, we have accomplished our job. I am not judging anybody, because we as. Christians commit the same mistakes as non-christians. All we have is we believe in Christ and we work in his way. That's what's different between us and other people. Some Christians are hypocrites which give us a bad name and they don't even act like Christians.

[Houndy]

Puttin is one of those Christians that think Christianity is what everyone should believe in. I don't judge, he's just an idiot, just like that Florida Pastor

[x-uNdErRaTeD-z]

I know where's he's coming from but he can't really force you into the religion. It's what you want to believe not what I make you believe in. I told him that he needs to let God do the work and to be patient. He's need to learn when to say something and when not to say anything.

[Houndy]

Or the fact that he gets verses of a Holy Book from a site that flat out hates it

[puttincomputers]

I know where's he's coming from but he can't really force you into the religion. It's what you want to believe not what I make you believe in. I told him that he needs to let God do the work and to be patient. He's need to learn when to say something and when not to say anything.

Yeah you are right in this case. Its time to do a Matthew 7:6.

[shadowgrin]

Your bigotry against Muslims have nothing to do with Matthew 7:6, neither is your definition of atheism as a religion. So please enlighten us with your opinions on those two.

Christians commit the same mistakes as non-christians. All we have is we believe in Christ and we work in his way. That's what's different between us and other people. Some Christians are hypocrites which give us a bad name and they don't even act like Christians.

Un-Christian like being intolerant, ignorant, and judgmental of others as to blindly label them as haters and 'wannabes', which spreads the hate even more?

I know where's he's coming from but he can't really force you into the religion. It's what you want to believe not what I make you believe in. I told him that he needs to let God do the work and to be patient. He's need to learn when to say something and when not to say anything.

So he's not forcing others into religion instead he's twisting the words and spreading falsities about other religions to attract people to his own religion?

[x-uNdErRaTeD-z]

Un-Christian like being intolerant, ignorant, and judgmental of others as to blindly label them as haters and 'wannabes', which spreads....

Well yes there are Christians like that but it's a minority. You can't deny the fact that there are haters toward Christianity. They're not called haters but there are many of them and you're making it seem as it's rare. And you don't have to go at puttin like that because he's just stating what he KNOWS and maybe he doesn't know a lot like you do. Right now I am learning every minute about the discussions.

So he's not forcing others into religion instead he's twisting the words and spreading falsities about other religions to attract people to his own religion?

Well that's his way of attracting people in his religion. You're really trying to make the situation worse than what it is. He's choosing what words to say to back up his statements. Obviously he's not reading the entire verse but instead he's picking off what he wants. That's his way of backing up his facts. It's obvious I can't deny that but that's WHY I told him not to say anything because like he said with the other Scripture, he can get himself in a sticky situation if he doesn't know what he's talking about. Anyway you might not respond to this but what religion do you believe in and such. You're probably not going to say it because of the criticism which is perfectly understandable.

[benji]

Puttin is one of those Christians that think Christianity is what everyone should believe in. I don't judge, he's just an idiot, just like that Florida Pastor

No, just his particular sect. Look at his comments on Baptists and Catholics. Probably has similar thoughts about Unitarians, Lutherans, Methodists and so on.

It's just standard tribalism, and it's like they say about academia, "lowest stakes, largest fights."

[shadowgrin]

Well yes there are Christians like that but it's a minority. You can't deny the fact that there are haters toward Christianity. They're not called haters but there are many of them and you're making it seem as it's rare. And you don't have to go at puttin like that because he's just stating what he KNOWS and maybe he doesn't know a lot like you do.

I know they are not really called 'haters' (semantics? smh) and how did I make it look like as if they are rare?
My contention with puttin is not with how little he knows but the way he uses what he knows. Twisting the words of another religion to make it appear that its only existence and purpose is to hate others, even as far as to call some of them "wannabes".
The way he spreads hate from his own ignorance is no different from those extremists that blow themselves up and kill people, and Christians that are in puttin's own words "christians who twist the bible"

Well that's his way of attracting people in his religion. You're really trying to make the situation worse than what it is.

Worse than what it is? Well, it is worse. "The way he spreads hate from his own ignorance is no different from those extremists that blow themselves up and kill people, and Christians that are in puttin's own words "christians who twist the bible""

He's choosing what words to say to back up his statements. Obviously he's not reading the entire verse but instead he's picking off what he wants. That's his way of backing up his facts.

That's worse than ignorance. He's making up lies. How can that be backing up "facts" when he made it lies by taking it out of context purposely, as you imply.

It's obvious I can't deny that but that's WHY I told him not to say anything because like he said with the other Scripture, he can get himself in a sticky situation if he doesn't know what he's talking about.

I couldn't care less what you two talked about.
What he keeps doing is stupid and . He made it worse as he twisted the words of a religion not even his own to suit his own agenda. Like I said above, "My contention with puttin is not with how little he knows but the way he uses what he knows...The way he spreads hate from his own ignorance is no different from those extremists that blow themselves up and kill people, and Christians that are in puttin's own words "christians who twist the bible""

Anyway you might not respond to this but what religion do you believe in and such. You're probably not going to say it because of the criticism which is perfectly understandable.

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Found this again. lmao

[puttincomputers]

A rebuttal to Jae's video

phpBB [video]

[koberulz]

Even when he's controlling both sides of the argument, he still has to resort to semantic bullshit. Quality.

[shadowgrin]

A rebuttal to Jae's video

Eh. That video I linked wasn't even Jae's argument. The video is somewhat a summary or commentary of this thread.

[puttincomputers]

I didnt say it was Jae's argument. I said it was his video.

[shadowgrin]

I'm sorry, I thought you used the word rebuttal as in a debate seeing as how you enjoy knowing definitions.

[x-uNdErRaTeD-z]

I know they are not really called 'haters' (semantics? smh) and how did I make it look like as if they are rare?
My contention with puttin is not with how little he knows but the way he uses what he knows. Twisting the words of another religion to make it appear that its only existence and purpose is to hate others, even as far as to call some of them "wannabes".
The way he spreads hate from his own ignorance is no different from those extremists that blow themselves up and kill people, and Christians that are in puttin's own words "christians who twist the bible"

Worse than what it is? Well, it is worse. "The way he spreads hate from his own ignorance is no different from those extremists that blow themselves up and kill people, and Christians that are in puttin's own words "christians who twist the bible"

Can't deny that Shad. I agree with you, great post. You've convienced me. Also, I figured you were a Catholic since it's the main religion practiced in the Phillipines, hence because you're a Pinoy.

[puttincomputers]

@ Shadow: How am I spreading hate? All I am saying is that they are wrong. I don't hate the person saying the wrong things. You on the other hand would love to see my obituary.

[shadowgrin]

How can I seriously answer your questions and consider your opinions when you don't even answer questions directed at you or refuse to address others arguments that have proven your arguments wrong, by your own source I might add?

Italicized mine.

How am I spreading hate? All I am saying is that they are wrong. I don't hate the person saying the wrong things.

muslims who truly follow the koran to the letter hate all other religions. There are muslim wannabes who try to say that the koran does not teach that but they are just like the supposed christians who twist the bible into saying christians should go to war.

it was founded by a man who hated jews, christians, and every other religion

Have you even read the whole 'chapters' puttin instead of singling out 'verses' in those links you posted?

http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/098.asp
98:6 Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures.

Those who don't believe in [insert deity here] are bound to hell? Good thing Christianity doesn't have anything similar to that belief...oh wait...

http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/009.asp
9:73 O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.

9:74 They swear by Allah that they said nothing (evil), but indeed they uttered blasphemy, and they did it after accepting Islam; and they meditated a plot which they were unable to carry out: this revenge of theirs was (their) only return for the bounty with which Allah and His Apostle had enriched them! If they repent, it will be best for them; but if they turn back (to their evil ways), Allah will punish them with a grievous penalty in this life and in the Hereafter: They shall have none on earth to protect or help them.

It really helps to understand things if you read a great part of it and not just pick out parts to your liking.

http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/002.asp
2:64 But ye turned back thereafter: Had it not been for the Grace and Mercy of Allah to you, ye had surely been among the lost.

2:65 And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath: We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected."

2:66 So We made it an example to their own time and to their posterity, and a lesson to those who fear Allah.

Here's an interesting one I found from the same link you provided...

2:62 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

Wow. Made it bigger so puttin can read it.

http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/059.asp
59:14 They will not fight you (even) together, except in fortified townships, or from behind walls. Strong is their fighting (spirit) amongst themselves: thou wouldst think they were united, but their hearts are divided: that is because they are a people devoid of wisdom.

What's your point with that verse?
"It really helps to understand things if you read a great part of it and not just pick out parts to your liking."

Do you see how even the muslim wannabes have hatred of Jews and Christians and even other faiths and non faiths within their Quran?

I still fail to see what the fuck you are talking about and thus you're still a bigoted idiot to me. (Yes, I'm aware of the potential irony with that statement)


For the lulz...

they are just like the supposed christians who twist the bible

Oh, and please address benji and el badman's queries. I'm interested in what you have to say about it.

he's twisting the words and spreading falsities about other religions

Twisting the words of another religion to make it appear that its only existence and purpose is to hate others, even as far as to call some of them "wannabes".
The way he spreads hate from his own ignorance is no different from those extremists that blow themselves up and kill people, and Christians that are in puttin's own words "christians who twist the bible"

He's making up lies. How can that be backing up "facts" when he made it lies by taking it out of context purposely

made it worse as he twisted the words of a religion not even his own to suit his own agenda

read your own bible before antagonizing muslims!

You on the other hand would love to see my obituary.

Playing the victim would mean saying "woe is me. I am being persecuted."

just another way to place yourself in the victim's shoes and pretend that you're the one who's on trial, which seems to be a leitmotif for you.

[benji]

@ Shadow: How am I spreading hate? All I am saying is that they are wrong. I don't hate the person saying the wrong things. You on the other hand would love to see my obituary.

I love this. You're actually accusing someone of wanting to see you dead.

I mean, I wouldn't think that of anyone on the internet. But I have known Shadow for close to a decade and he wouldn't want to learn of a death from anyone's obituary. (Because that means he didn't do it himself.)

And the part I love is that from my poor reading of every thread, because he actually gives a shit about scripture, is that Shadow is either one of the fellow travelers in Christianity or actually informed about it. Yet, he rejects the foolishness of ascribing one analysis as being the holy truth. (A lesser man would say this makes him a better Christian. I'm that lesser man btw.)

And this is where you're never going to get it Puttin, nor many of our other friends who have been around and shortly departed. Everyone smart here has heard this from me before.

The Bible is a book advocating for a moral philosophy through allegory. If you ascribe more to it than that you ruin its argument and undermine your own argument and if he exists God himself. (Yes, that's right I'm arguing that the value of the Bible is greater than the bulk of its worshipers claim it is!)

If you point to an event described in the Bible as fact and argue through it, you have lost. Instantly. You cannot win. Ever. No matter if you are ACTUALLY RIGHT.

Consider Objectivism. The Cult of Rand argues using Atlas among the rest of the shit. Rational people do not consider these as factual proofs, but instead arguments that can be analysed based on their premises.

The Bible is the same way. Citing scripture is like citing Taggart or Rearden. It's meaningless.

If your authority rests on the fear of God or the fear of Rand, despite the latter being something you should be afraid of, then you have nothing, since you cannot back it up outside of appeal to dubious authority. Your argument must be made not through the scripture but through the validity of your philosophy. Running back to scripture does nothing.

I know the vast majority of humanity disagrees with me on the merits of Voluntaryism, which only describes a small faction of life, unlike Objectivism or Christianity or Islam. Yet I recognize that the only way to defend my position is through sheer force of logic and reason. Declaring Hayek as authority does not work, the arguments must stand.

Actually, let me approach this from another direction.

When you quote scripture, I don't even read it.

Do you know why?

Do you know how to convince me to accept it as factual?

The fact is, quoting scripture to me is irrelevant. You will not ever convince me of your argument by doing so. It's like quoting Marx, Rawls, etc. as proof. It has no intrinsic power over me.

I'll be fair, my moral philosophy is based around the rejection of coercion, and when combined with my love of logic, absolutely requires me to decimate Pascal's Wager and declare someone who claims dominion and rule over others through eternal coercion to be absolutely illegitimate as a moral force.

And it doesn't fucking matter if they can actually enforce it upon me.

They're wrong. They're a tyrant. And they have no moral authority to begin with.

Besides, the Cat Lords were there first.