Death

So Sit knows this, and some of you might remember me mentioning it a few months back, shit almost a year now. My grandpa had a heart attack and his health has been kinda off track since. Well, he's had some lung problems recently and this morning we did the call the out of town kids so they can tell them they love him thing. A going to hell for this moment thing here but that was the nail in coffin so to speak. So out of curiosity, what are yalls views on death? I've found a few good quotes from Jim Morrison and Calvin and Hobbes. Also i know this is a pretty heavy topic for here, but i need some outside sources (not the friends i always talk to at school)

"People fear death even more than pain. It's strange that they fear death. Life hurts a lot more than death. At the point of death, the pain is over. Yeah, I guess it is a friend ..."-Jim Morrison

Calvin: Hobbes, what do you think happens to us when we die?
Hobbes: I think we play saxophone for an all-girl cabaret in New Orleans.
Calvin: So you believe in heaven?
Hobbes: Call it what you like.

Calvin: I wonder where we go when we die
Hobbes: Pittsburgh?
Calvin: You mean if we're good or if we're bad?

Death sucks. No more sex, drugs, or alcohol.

Gotta make sure I get my fill in before that tragic day comes.

Interesting thread. I'd have to say my fear of dying sort of fluctuates depending on my life circumstances... there are certain times where I check 20 times before crossing every road lol, then there's times where I close my eyes and walk out backwards... ok that's an exaggeration, but you get the point.

I'm not remotely curious as to what happens once you die, I think anyone who is, is just setting themselves up for disappointment. Not that afterlife, reincarnation, heaven etc definitely don't exist, but there is still a risk that they don't. For some bizarre reason I do feel somewhat invincible, I think it's because I've had very few (read: none) "near death" experiences and so I just assume it will never happen to me. I also get the feeling I'm in for a bit of a surprise one of these days

The heaven/hell thing sort of confuses me... one is full of purity, chastity, no bad language/drinking/smoking/drugs/... the other is full of porn and heavy metal. I know where I'm aiming.

well, I don't really wanna touch on the whole heaven/hell topic cuz that'll bring back the Bible thread we had a couple years back...

but I'm scared as hell (no pun intended) about dying too soon and not being able to do things that most people do with a "full life". if i think ive accomplished mostly everything i wanted to, then id be ok with kicking the bucket.

I'm open to the possibility of an afterlife, not necessarily heaven or hell, but there's no way to prove it so I don't let it get to me.

I occasionally just sit around in lectures and ponder on what really goes on after death. The prospect of never living on earth again is unnerving for me to say the least. But after going through some biology courses back in high school, I've pretty much assumed that death is equivalent to how it is before birth, an absolute blankness for eternity. Sorry, I know it's obvious, but it's the most realistic way I can think about it rather than resorting to the fantasy based afterlife predictions.

Nice topic Illini.

Hmm, I think death is too final. That's the whole point I suppose. Long story short, it sucks for those that are left behind.

I lost my grandfather (aka father) around this time last year. Odd I see this topic now because I was just discussing this whole thing with Pili. (Uhm... )

Being brought up sort of Indian we're taught at the outset about reincarnation and what not. After you've developed yourself you have your own conclusions though. Do I believe in it? Not 100%, but it's a nice concept/way of dealing with losing someone near to you. Thinking they're either making some other family's life hell or the exact opposite is quite soothing when you think of it.

I lost my uncle to drugs and alcohol too in '98, that was my first real encounter with death. I didn't attend the cremation and I quite regret it. It's like I never got to say goodbye. I went to my grandfather's one, so I sort of have more closure with that one.

Uhm, I don't believe in heaven and hell. It's quite contradicting if you think of it. God accepts everyone they say, so then why would anyone go to hell? People that live by that concept (oh noes, don't do bad, you'll go to hell) need to start living. I mean you're on earth now, live for now. Don't be in your deathbed and then think...damn, I wish I'd done that and then bam you just die and there is no heaven/hell. If I died with you I'd laugh my ass off at you. Bitch, live a little.

Am I afraid of death? Not really. Not to be emo or anything but it seems so freeing. I mean the world isn't exactly paradise. Hehe, anyways, I'm glad I'm here and making the most of it as each day passes, but I don't fear death.

I would like to go out in a bit of style like my grandfather. I mean he was as healthy as a racehorse and just went in his sleep. No heart problems orso (they can tell by feeling your chest after you pass away), so he was just sitting there...fell asleep (as he tends to do) and never woke up again. Nifty I'd say.

I don't want to be the type that's all coughing and spewing blood and pissing his bed kind of death. Nah, I'd like to go while I'm fully functional and not dependant on people.

Suicide is a whole other ballgame. People that commit suicide really piss me off. What pisses me off even more is people that attempt suicide and they don't die. Damn bitch, can't even get that right?! I mean...then you really don't deserve to live.

I felt like typing. 99% is gibberish, read at your own risk. (Smart that I put this totally at the bottom, no?)

Death stalks you at every turn. There, there it is, death!

That's just Maggie, grandpa.

Oh, yeah, at my age the mind starts playing tricks on ya. Now where was I? Oh yeah...death!

That's just the cat.

Oh, well...there, there it is, death!

That's Maggie again, grandpa.

I've done a lot of thinking about the existence and I've come to this conclusion, it can't exist.

And heres why:

It is widely believed by nearly every major religion in the world, that upon death, people who follow the practices of their religion will proceed to heaven, or some other form of perfection or paradise. Though each religion’s afterlife is different, for instance if you follow the practices of Catholicism, you will go to the catholic form of heaven, but not the Baptist heaven, or the Mormon heaven, or any other religion’s heaven. This means that each religion must have a separate form of heaven, or heaven cannot exist at all.

The Miriam-Webster dictionary defines heaven as “a place of supreme happiness” and paradise as “a place or state of bliss”. So, heaven is a place where reality defies itself – a place where everything is completely perfect. Despite the different religion’s qualifications for arriving at this utopia, the end result is relatively the same, perfection.

A human thought is like a fingerprint. Each person’s notion of something that is intangible is unique. Identity Theory states that one person’s perception of a certain thing is different than another’s. That fact is what gives each human being their individual identity. So based on this statement, each person’s idea of perfection would be different, and since heaven is a place of perfection, each person’s idea of heaven would also be different, meaning that within each religion’s form of heaven, each individual person possesses their own unique heaven.

If everyone possesses a different view of heaven, how can there be only one form of heaven? If that sole form of heaven is perfect for one person, it cannot be perfect for another. Suppose both person a and person b follow the rules of their religion and proceed to heaven. Person a has only one request for perfection, and that is a world where person b does not exist, and since both person a and person b are going to heaven that is impossible. This fallacy alone prevents a notion of a sole heaven from being possible.

But following the above logic, even unique heavens still could not be possible. Since person a and person b have unique notions of heaven, they would each have to have their own unique heaven. But what if person a had only one form of perfection, and that was a unified heaven, where everyone lived together and sacrificed a small portion of their perfection for a larger, unified afterlife. This would make it impossible for there to be multiple forms of heaven.

So heaven, as a unified world, cannot exist, and neither can heaven as many separate worlds. Heaven must either be a place that is not completely perfect, or it cannot exist at all. And since heaven is a place, by definition, of utter perfection, it cannot be imperfect. Therefore, heaven cannot exist at all.

Heaven sounds like being high constantly.

Not that I'd know anything about that.

People who aren't afraid of death scare me more than anything else. I have no clue what happens when we die. I believe in God and Heaven/Hell but have no idea what Heaven and Hell actually is. Obviously, nobody does besides the ones who are there. I'm not a very religious person...I don't read the bible and I go to church occasionally. However, I do believe in doing good deeds and helping each other out. If you do these things you may be rewarded for it in the afterlife and if you are not, you still go the satisfaction of doing it on earth (as temporary as that maybe).

I guess I offered very little insight on this topic.

People who aren't afraid of death scare me more than anything else.

Boo.

Maybe I worded that wrong? People who aren't afraid to DIE scare me more than anything else. Is that the same thing or no?

Boo? I'm not afraid of death or to die? I'm scary?

Joke am fail.

Silas, good post, I would tend to agree with you on this.
Personally, I just don't think that there's anything at all after death, you're either in a wooden box or a in a small jar. It's still hard to conceive that your soul has nowhere to go to, even reincarnate somewhere else, but I don't know...I guess I try not to think about it that much.

There's something after death, be it a mind illusion or a true form of afterlife, but right before people die, they see things. Talk to anyone who's gone into cardiac arrest. I tend to think its the former, but who knows.

I don't believe in having a soul and living in another life. I always wonder before going to bed how death will be like though. Obviously, you'll feel nothing, but you're always feeling something, and I've only been "feeling" or having emotions for my entire life because I'm alive.

I don't know if that makes sense... But yeah...

“Death does not concern us, because as long as we exist, death is not here. And when it does come, we no longer exist.”

I don´t know who said that but it pretty much sums up my view of death. I´m not afraid to die, and I almost never think about it. I would rather die myself than live to see my loved ones die. The thought of that is much scarier to me.

Uhm, I don't believe in heaven and hell. It's quite contradicting if you think of it. God accepts everyone they say, so then why would anyone go to hell? People that live by that concept (oh noes, don't do bad, you'll go to hell) need to start living. I mean you're on earth now, live for now. Don't be in your deathbed and then think...damn, I wish I'd done that and then bam you just die and there is no heaven/hell. If I died with you I'd laugh my ass off at you. Bitch, live a little.

word. couldnt agree with you more.



how id want to die? I dunno how i feel about dying in my sleep... it's painless, but meh. you only get to die once, so it might as well be doing something badass or something like that.

I'm scared that those close to me could die but I'm not scared of my own death because once you die you don't have to worry about anything else, because, well, you're dead. I really don't have a strong belief either way of what happens after you die. After all, it really doesn't matter what you think because whatever does happen is beyond your control. (unless you believe that heaven-hell is black-white)

Therefore, heaven cannot exist at all.

Unless heaven exists somewhere deep within each individual person's mind and that "perfect place" is unlocked when one dies....I don't know what I'm talking about.

I've also thought about reincarnation and stuff. I find it hard to believe that once we die we just *poof* and cease to exist. Personally, I think there is some kind of existence after life. Be it being reborn into the world or becoming some kind of spiritual being. I don't know. It's probably a matter of me wanting to believe it rather than actually believing it.

Last edited by Gundy on Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

this thread scares me

Silas: Good post. I also don't believe in heaven or hell, because I believe it's a man-made idea, designated to be as a reward-punishment system.

"If you're a good boy, you go to heaven. If you're a bad boy, you go to hell."

However, I do believe in doing good deeds and helping each other out. If you do these things you may be rewarded for it in the afterlife and if you are not, you still go the satisfaction of doing it on earth (as temporary as that maybe).

I agree with that, doing good deeds and helping each other out, but usually you are rewarded for that on Earth, not in the afterlife (if it exists.)

I think it sucks how so many people would concern themselves with heaven/hell as a way to dictate their lives rather than use their own experiences. All they need to do is realize the other person's experience, like, "Why am I punching him in the balls if I know it hurts?" I believe in "karma," do good things, good things happen; do bad things, bad things happen. I don't preach to others or decide their fate, but just use common sense.

As for death, I don't want to die, but I'm not afraid of it. It probably means I'm content with life, but it doesn't make me suicidal, though

I'd rather die while sleeping rather than die slowly. That will hurt.

"Train yourself to let go of those you are afraid to lose." - Yoda

The heaven/hell thing sort of confuses me... one is full of purity, chastity, no bad language/drinking/smoking/drugs/... the other is full of porn and heavy metal. I know where I'm aiming.

I don't believe this afterlife thing. But some guys who had near-death experiences speak of seeing "the light" and "the light" tells them to come back and they continue living. (I've seen many of these on the 700 Club primetime block and on some Lenten shows)

Maybe when we all die we could discuss this on the Afterlife Forums section of the Astral Dimension NLSC.

Alright guys so it happened tonight, my grandpa died. I'm not gonna repost everything so i'm just gonna post the blog i wrote....

Calvin: Hobbes what do you think happens to us when we die?
Hobbes: I think we play saxophone for an all-girl cabaret in New Orleans
Calivn: So you believe in heaven?
Hobbes: Call it what you like.

My grandpa always tells this story. Apparently when I was 2 years old I was having a birthday party and I opened a stuffed Big Bird that for whatever reason frightened me. My first complete sentence was "I DONT LIKE IT!"...well...let me say this: I DONT LIKE IT.

Tonight is probably going to be one of the defining moments in my life. After being sick for quite a few weeks my grandpa died tonight. I got to tell him I loved him on the phone the morning and it was his decision. Apparently his last words were something along the lines of "you know what? i had some pretty great adventures." I gotta agree with Uncle Neil on this one: if we can all say that the day we die, we can consider our lives pretty good. This man never stopped learning or wanting to learn and is one of the main people in my life who always instilled learning into me. Whether it was learning about animals at Riverbanks Zoo, the Revolutionary War at Cowpens battlefield, or just sitting there chatting on a Sunday afternoon about history i didnt live through...the man taught me more than probably anyone outside of my parents and sister. I dont believe in heaven or hell, or even religion, but I know what ever there is, Grandpa's in it and proud of us. I know this all seems cheesy as hell but its the honest truth. My only regret is I didnt get to tell him about Brazil. Hopefully whatever form of afterlife there might be, he can experience and do everything he never quite got to and learn everything there is. Rest in Piece Grandpa. As much as we didnt wanna hear about the Yankees or how the restaurant we were at was so much better the first time, we had fun. I'll miss you.

-D

Thanks for some of the insight, when i'm a little more stable i'll give you mine

Our condolences illini.