9/11 Conspiracy? (Riot, you're gonna hate this)

[Donatello]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... nd+edition

I'm not saying that I necessarily believe this, but it's quite a good watch/listen. It's not short- about an hour and 20 minutes, but it is well worth it.

[Jugs]

There's a 2nd edition of Loose Change? I remember the 'first' (if there is a 2nd) edition being posted ages ago.

Edit: oo000ooo extra footage! Oh noes! It's a conspiracy like on the X Files! ROSWELL STYLE.

[Riot]

The Vice President can't even cover up a hunting accident, how in the world would the government be able to cover up something on the scale of this? You overestimate our government's capabilities and corruptness (is that a word?).

[Silas]

that was a very interesting film, it raises even more questions than I had before...

[Bang]

:roll: The Vice President can't even cover up a hunting accident, how in the world would the government be able to cover up something on the scale of this? You overestimate our government's capabilities and corruptness (is that a word?).

Wait? Riot is doubting the us government's capabilities?

[Riot]

Their capability of keeping something this large of scale secret, yes. Someone would leak it to the media or somewhere. It would take hundreds of people to complete this plan and you have to think atleast one of them would feel some kind of remorse for killing thousand of innocent Americans...

Plus, you guys can call President Bush stupid but he wouldn't go out have a plot to kill innocent lives, especially American.

[Jing]

man if it raises more questions... might as well not watch it. just will cause more questions on what is happening in the world. sometimes ignorance may help some

[Riot]

man if it raises more questions... might as well not watch it. just will cause more questions on what is happening in the world. sometimes ignorance may help some

No, but it's just stupid to think that. There is no way it could happen. And quite frankly, it makes me sick that some people actually believe that these are real. There are sites that debunk the conspiracy theories completely. You can search for them on google.

[Kriegz]

Loose Change is pretty good, I guess this is a version 2 or something?

[Jing]

man if it raises more questions... might as well not watch it. just will cause more questions on what is happening in the world. sometimes ignorance may help some

No, but it's just stupid to think that. There is no way it could happen. And quite frankly, it makes me sick that some people actually believe that these are real. There are sites that debunk the conspiracy theories completely. You can search for them on google.

it is true that they are conspiracies. but as long as information is held back and the public is not allowed to know everything people are gonna complain. you are in the army and you're strongly patrotic, i support that because its your country.

although i do blame dontatello for starting this shit again.

[Riot]

I'm not in the Army.

Does anyone actually think that the government would be able to pull this off? Something to this scale against it's own people? And does anyone ACTUALLY think that the government is this corrupt and evil? This isn't hollywood people, get a clue.

[Bang]

I'm not in the Army.

Does anyone actually think that the government would be able to pull this off? Something to this scale against it's own people? And does anyone ACTUALLY think that the government is this corrupt and evil? This isn't hollywood people, get a clue.

You could argue the opposite. This isn't Hollywood. America doesn't always fight for the good and justice. (When is America ever portrayed as a bad guy in Hollywood?) All governments are evil and corrupt. I don't think any major politician can be anything BUT evil. Do you really believe that they care about their citizens so much? Cmon. Politicians are the MOST egotistical people. There are no good politicians.

Well unless I really do research for myself, I have no idea if the arguments in that movie is true. However, I do believe it is possible for a government to kill its own citizens in order for "the greater good" whatever it may be. Isn't that the mentality of the army anyhow?

[Silas]

If someone goes out who works at area 51 and says "I saw the Aurora Jet" or "I worked with UFO's" and it was true, everyone would call them a liar and think they were crazy.... Same here. Its a no win for the people who leak it...

A lot of the stuff they bring up is valid, but they do use Wikipedia for a lot of references which isnt so valid. But the point about, "If it was the plane that crashed into the Pentagon release the tapes to prove it" is a good point and that makes you wonder... The pentagon is the most cloudy one, but you do wonder what they did with the passengers.

[KIG1]

I watched the whole thing and I just couldn't stop watching.

There are a lot of great points in there about some conspiricies. I have no idea what to beleive now, actully. It brought up a lot of stuff that was worth thinking about.

[Riot]

You could argue the opposite. This isn't Hollywood. America doesn't always fight for the good and justice. (When is America ever portrayed as a bad guy in Hollywood?) All governments are evil and corrupt. I don't think any major politician can be anything BUT evil. Do you really believe that they care about their citizens so much? Cmon. Politicians are the MOST egotistical people. There are no good politicians.

Well unless I really do research for myself, I have no idea if the arguments in that movie is true. However, I do believe it is possible for a government to kill its own citizens in order for "the greater good" whatever it may be. Isn't that the mentality of the army anyhow?

Excatly, they are egotisical and do you think they would risk their careers on something so risky? It is just stupid. Also, they maybe eotisical but they are human and they have a conscious. You would think atleast one person would step up and say this is immoral and wrong.

This is the problem with these stupid videos. People watch them and they mistake it for the truth. Most of the facts that these videos use aren't even validiated or true. I saw one video and it had the approach of the aircraft going into the pentagon all wrong. One news reporter was used in a video because he said "There is no sign of an aircraft here" but he didn't mean that there wasn't an aircraft involved, just that he couldn't find it on that side of the lawn. There have been photos that capture part of the wreckage of an aircraft.

If you guys are going to be so "open-minded", if watching stupid conspiracy theories is considered that, then it is only right that you go and read the other side of it. I will post a few links that you can read that will debunk all of these silly rumors.

http://ourworld.cs.com/mikegriffith1/refute.htm
http://www.geocities.com/debunking911/index.htm

[Donatello]

Damnit, I just posted quite a long response but the internet ate it. I'll try again.

Those articles you posted are nice. But they're mostly just stuff like:

"How do we know __________ happened?"

"Because 75 eyewitnesses saw it."

That's exactly how a coverup would go.

Anyway. Your articles are fine and all, but the 'points' they make are what the film I posted questions, and in my opinion, in many cases- defeats.

You would think atleast one person would step up and say this is immoral and wrong.

Many people have. Many people have been paid off. Many people have refused payoffs and DO speak. And many people like you ignore them.

And, dear Riot, you have absolutely NO right to call anyone else close-minded.

[Riot]

Did you see this page? Pretty much all of those people who work for those agencies would have to have been paid off. The odds of it happening, in my mind, are zero. With today's media there is NO way they would be able to pull this off.

And you know what? What about the conspiracy videos? They use witness reports and take them out of context. If a firefighter says "It felt like an explosion went off" that doesn't mean he actually thinks an explosion went off, he was just describing the situation. They should have taken the whole quote so you know what he was talking about. Misquoting reporters, firefighters and eyewitnesses is an easy way to try to prove a conspiracy theory.

[Jing]

hm. that weird looking shiny thing in the middle is a tribute to the fire fighters right? looks really..

[Donatello]

Did you see this page? Pretty much all of those people who work for those agencies would have to have been paid off. The odds of it happening, in my mind, are zero. With today's media there is NO way they would be able to pull this off.

And you know what? What about the conspiracy videos? They use witness reports and take them out of context. If a firefighter says "It felt like an explosion went off" that doesn't mean he actually thinks an explosion went off, he was just describing the situation. They should have taken the whole quote so you know what he was talking about. Misquoting reporters, firefighters and eyewitnesses is an easy way to try to prove a conspiracy theory.

There are photographs and MULTIPLE VIDEOS that show additional explosions, as well as audio. Believe me, I know that quotes aren't something to be trusted- in fact- that's the whole reason I used to refute that articles you posted

[shadowgrin]

you guys can call President Bush stupid but he wouldn't go out have a plot to kill innocent lives, especially American.

War in Iraq.
Friendly fire = dead innocent people (and sometimes American casualties).
Innocent American soldiers sent there for "missing" WMD's = end up dead.

[Silas]

I think many people, including yourself, Riot, dont understand the corruption involved in our government. It doesnt matter who is in the White House, our government is still corrupt. They do a lot of things behind the back of the American people and they use our money for things they dont tell us about.

They spend billions of our dollars at military bases like Groom Lake and dont tell us about it.

In 1980 the American hostages in Iran were released convientently to coencide with election of Ronald Reagan. Millions upon millions of dollars went missing and Iran somehow ended up with millions and millions of dollars. Then, a reporter who had learned a lot about this was about to write a large report about what he had uncovered when he suddenly committed suicide in the bathtub of his hotel room even though just days earlier he'd contacted his family and said, "If I die dont assume what they tell you is true,". The whole situation was called the "October Suprise," read up on it.

The government has the power and money to pull off pretty much all the corruption they want, and they do it a lot. Congressmen get paid off by large companies to vote in favor of or against bills.

It doesnt matter what party you're for, you need to acknowledge the extremely large amount of corruption in our government.

[Riot]

you guys can call President Bush stupid but he wouldn't go out have a plot to kill innocent lives, especially American.

War in Iraq.
Friendly fire = dead innocent people (and sometimes American casualties).
Innocent American soldiers sent there for "missing" WMD's = end up dead.

I don't think President Bush went into Iraq for the intent to kill as many innocent lives as possible.

Is the government corrupt? Perhaps. However, if you honestly think that they can pull something off of this size then you are helpless, in my opinion. Call me blind and patriotic but I don't care. There is no way we would be able to pull this off and then convince other nations to give false intelligence (other nations have intelligence that supports the 9/11 plans) and then we also have to pay off al-queda to admit guilt for it.

Which leads to me whole point. Al-Queda said they were responsible for the attacks. We found documents of the plans. We have captured people who worked closely with the plan and admit to it. We have captured people who were involved in the plan. We have documents of them getting onto the planes and photos of them on the planes. We have security checkpoint officers who said they found switchblades on the terrorists but let them go. We have 4 missing aircrafts from 3 different airports with all the people on it. We have videos of two aircrafts hitting the World Trade Centers. We have documented and recorderd phone conversations of people on the aircraft calling loved ones. Not to mention the FAA which tried to have conversations with the hijackers to spoke Arabic and jibberish to them. They tracked four planes through the air until they crashed.

You are talking about A HUGE cover-up here. Probably the biggest cover-up in organized government history. It's not plausible. At all. There would be WAY too many people involved to successful do this. Not to mention I just don't think the government is that "evil" to even think about doing this. You guys say I need to get my red, white and blue glasses off my face but I think some of you have your own colored glasses on that see everything in anti-American. Just admit it. A stupid video that doesn't even have the facts or quotes right doesn't mean jack shit. Is it interesting? Yes. Of course there are going to be questions because the plan is a mystery to us. We don't know all the details as the public and of course there are is to speculation. There are millions of conspiracy theories based on everything you could imagine. They have books about conspiracy theories. This is just another one to get people talking and to point fingers.

[Donatello]

Did you even watch the fucking video, Riot?

[Riot]

This particular one? Nah, but I have watched 4 other videos and read a few websites that were all this conspiracy theory crap.

[Donatello]

If you would watch the damn video that's the topic of the post, maybe you could make arguments against it. Since you haven't, I have no idea why you're even responding. That's amazing. No wonder your responses make no sense.