Has LeBron played himself out of the Hall of Fame?

[benji]

He's lost two NBA Finals now, you can't come back from that shame can you? Especially when you're the single cause for your teams defeat?

Add in how he gave up on Cleveland and then left it, something the greats never do.

I honestly have to wonder if he'll even get on the ballot at this point. Surely Bruce Bowen will make it before LeBron does now.

Also, do you think LeBron is considering retirement now? If he quits now he and all his jock-riders can claim he'd always catch up to Kobe later. Whereas if he keeps playing and keeps failing Kobe just gets farther and farther ahead of him and cements his status as the greatest player of all time.

[Andrew]

I expect him to retire for 18 months, while attempting a career in the NFL. It's no coincidence that this was posted today.

[JaoSming]

phpBB [video]

lolno

[benji]

Wait, LeBron's lost THREE times in the Finals.

And his first ring doesn't count because of the lockout. And the second one doesn't count because Kobe got injured plus Dwight was holding him back.

Wow, LeBron really hasn't won anything in his career at all.

[formx]

LeBron retires and signs a contract with the WWE. LeBron is proven to be a bigger star than John Cena. John Cena finally turns heel.

[Stress Fracture]

[Andrew]

No way LeBron gets over as a face outside of Florida.

[Kevin]

I love how benji connects everything to kobe hahahah

[stereoxide]

And given that LeBron had two franchise players with him, a hall of famer and a guy who warranted a team to give him a max contract and they still couldn't win another championship.

[formx]

No way LeBron gets over as a face outside of Florida.

No way Cena gets over as a face anywhere but they still do it.

[zz21]

The Uso's are more over then Lebron rn.

[Sauru]

Wait, LeBron's lost THREE times in the Finals.

And his first ring doesn't count because of the lockout. And the second one doesn't count because Kobe got injured plus Dwight was holding him back.

Wow, LeBron really hasn't won anything in his career at all.

i thought we already established that neither of his rings count for multi reason. i mean the first was one thanks the all the injuries in the east so that one clearly does not count and last year the spurs had money on the heat so they tanked in

[xxstormmxx]

No you can't blame LeBron when the rest of the Heat played like scrubs for most of the Finals. He kept scoring but he was usually the only one scoring into the twenties and thirties.

[Sauru]

No you can't blame LeBron when the rest of the Heat played like scrubs for most of the Finals. He kept scoring but he was usually the only one scoring into the twenties and thirties.

if lebron wants to be in the conversation with the likes of jordan, bird, and magic then he HAS to accept the blame

[Cpt(K)]

I think I'm going to enjoy watching this thread, if it goes anywhere...

[Kenny]

Skip Bayless said on numerous occasions that D-Wade was Batman of the Miami Heat, but that glorified troll doesn't know anything about basketball. It's now evident that LeBron James got his two dubious rings by riding on the coattails of one of the most epic centres of all time. Kobe never did that.

The Heat had their franchise guy and they traded him to Boston. I'm surprised the league didn't veto it. The Celtics practically ripped them off. If anything, it shows there's a league bias AGAINST the Miami Heat.

#NoGreatnessNoGlory

[xxstormmxx]

No you can't blame LeBron when the rest of the Heat played like scrubs for most of the Finals. He kept scoring but he was usually the only one scoring into the twenties and thirties.

if lebron wants to be in the conversation with the likes of jordan, bird, and magic then he HAS to accept the blame

Kind of unfair to ask of him though, because there wasn't anything he could do. Even Jordan would lose in the Finals if the rest of the Bulls were no shows for four games and he was the only one scoring for them.

[shadowgrin]

lol no.
If none of Jordan's teammates were scoring Jordan would just score more. Too bad LeBron can't score 41 ppg.

[Sauru]

No you can't blame LeBron when the rest of the Heat played like scrubs for most of the Finals. He kept scoring but he was usually the only one scoring into the twenties and thirties.

if lebron wants to be in the conversation with the likes of jordan, bird, and magic then he HAS to accept the blame

Kind of unfair to ask of him though, because there wasn't anything he could do. Even Jordan would lose in the Finals if the rest of the Bulls were no shows for four games and he was the only one scoring for them.

what i am saying is, jordans teammates would never be no shows for an entire series. he always got the most out of the players around him.

in the end i believe that as a player if you want the credit you also need to accept the blame. it just comes with being the top dog

[NovU]

You see... it's not necessarily because MJ made Pippen or Rodman better though.

Pippen is all time top 3 SF only behind LBJ and Bird, possibly #1 as a natural SF and defensive SF. That's regardless the MJ's impact to the team. And he's a top 5 (arguably top 3 for a good stretch) player at the time. Rodman also was the dominant rebounding force. He's top 10 all time in PF, and possibly top 3 at the time. Again that's with MJ or not.

Bosh is Bosh wherever he is. Wade is kneeless wherever he goes. Neither is dominant force in any aspect. Team them up elsewhere like with Durant, they're still Bosh and Wade. So the question boils down to how much more do you believe MJ or Bird would have brought out of them against the Spurs? LoL. Keep in mind, the Spurs are also one monstrous team. They have top 5 players on nearly all positions and everyone else are above average players top to bottom.

[benji]

what i am saying is, jordans teammates would never be no shows for an entire series. he always got the most out of the players around him.

Well, except for the 1998 Finals, 1990 ECF, 1989 ECF, etc.

[Sauru]

You see... it's not necessarily because MJ made Pippen or Rodman better though.

Pippen is all time top 3 SF only behind LBJ and Bird, possibly #1 as a natural SF and defensive SF. That's regardless the MJ's impact to the team. And he's a top 5 (arguably top 3 for a good stretch) player at the time. Rodman also was the dominant rebounding force. He's top 10 all time in PF, and possibly top 3 at the time. Again that's with MJ or not.

Bosh is Bosh wherever he is. Wade is kneeless wherever he goes. Neither is dominant force in any aspect. Team them up elsewhere like with Durant, they're still Bosh and Wade. So the question boils down to how much more do you believe MJ or Bird would have brought out of them against the Spurs? LoL. Keep in mind, the Spurs are also one monstrous team. They have top 5 players on nearly all positions and everyone else are above average players top to bottom.

i am not counting pipper and rodman, those guys are hall of famers and pippen was insanely good, i am talking about the role players.

the thing is as the superstar you have to take some of the blame. the fact that they put together this superteam only amplifies it

[Cpt(K)]

Sauru, whenever they would perform poorly, you can expect a good o'l chewing courtesy of Jordan to straighten them out. Rodman was a liability on offense, his only usefulness was hustle (or intensity), defense, and rebounding (in que with hustle). Seriously, the dude didn't bother (or didn't care?) to put up points. He dedicated himself to those 3 attributes, and though he did them very well he only contributed greater than or equal to 10 points a game. Great PF, but putting him in the top 5 or top 10 is a little much when his most outstanding stat is rebounding. That's just my opinion talkingthough.

Pippen, obviously didn't turn into a HOF overnight. Michael, well, has kinda always been Michael. Even after a disappointing sophmore injury, the following year he puts up 37 points per game which to my knowledge, has not been eclipsed by any later player (notice I said later, not earlier, or other or ever) (Wilt's 50ppg will have an asterisk for varying reasons). Lebron's stained record on the leagues biggest stage is sure to mar any argument presenting him as the greatest-of-all-time. Can he recover, I'm not so sure; I don't think he can recover enough to take that title from Michael.


I'm going to do something weird/sloppy, and bring individual statistics and display them in a rather unorthodox matter. Over 11 years of experience for both players here is how it's mapped out, in the few categories I'll present that are relevant.

Michael Jordan - Lebron James - statistical differences (e.g. MJ stats (margin/favor) LJ stats) [- = fail] [+ = win]

Games - 76 - LJ > -
Points - 1319 - MJ > +
FG% - .015 - MJ > +
3p% - .009 - LJ > +
2p% - .01 - LJ > +
Ft% - .097 - MJ > +
Ast - 1413 - LJ > +
REB - 1107 - LJ > +
Stl - 581 - MJ> +
Blk - 64 - MJ > +
TO - 609 - LJ > -

The way there 11 seasons panned out, I'd say Jordan accomplished more in less time. I didn't bother counting regular or post season awards. To add up those signs on the far right: MJ = +++++ LJ = ++++ Now I would enact a penalty because LJ has played more games, and maybe even because he committed much more turnovers. But that would make it look like this, +++++ against ++ I would do that because he has done substantially less in more time (e.g, less points though has played 76 more games, less steals and blocks -and then more turnovers).

[Andrew]

Well, MJ won three of his six titles with a bench rotation that included Jud Buechler. 'Nuff said.

[Kevin]

Pierce won with Sca. Whats the problem here?