Greatest of the Three Point Era: Offensive Players

[benji]

In this case we want to decide who are the ultimate offensive players. Pick ten, pick five, pick one at each position, pick positions and five best, pick your poison.

BUT YOU CAN'T PICK JORDAN

BOILERPLATE:
And here we go again, some notes again:
We're considering only 1977-78 forward. The best seven year stint of that player, in other words the "prime" of their career.

Should note, that you are not required to name the seven years for the player, it is merely a guideline to focus thoughts on the player at his best and to ignore things like legacy or entire careers.

And should also note that in instances regarding injuries, yes, go the extra year. For example, Grant Hill only plays SEVEN FULL SEASONS from 1995-2005 despite it being ten years. Also even if they play, like David Robinson in 1996-97, for a few games, you can skip over/include that season. If a player does something like play 17 games in one season and 55 games in another plus six full seasons, you can include both shortened seasons even if it's eight total seasons/years. It's not really fair to enforce seven calender years on the players.

[NovU]

BUT YOU CAN'T PICK JORDAN

HATER!

[Andrew]

Defiant Michael Jordan Mention

Would've been at number one on my list if it were allowed, but it does admittedly make for a more interesting list if that's taken as read. Since I am making mention of him though, I'd say that the ten scoring titles, the stats and his multitude of offensive weapons gets him the top spot on my full list.

1. Adrian Dantley

About the only knock you could make on his game is that he didn't have a three point game but considering the era he began his career in, that's not too surprising. Besides, it pales in comparison to what he did actually accomplish on the court. Four straight years of averaging over 30 points per game, including two scoring championships. His field goal percentages were ridiculous too, approaching the 60% mark in the early 80s while averaging those 30 points and taking around 20 shots per game. His advanced stats during that period speak for themselves.

2. Kobe Bryant

Other players have been more efficient, but Kobe's been one of the most explosive scorers in the league during his prime, particularly following Shaq's departure. The 50 and 60 point games, the 81 point game, back to back scoring titles (along with the highest scoring average since Michael Jordan's 1987 mark, back in 2006) and a multi-faceted offensive game.

3. Larry Bird

I'm guessing this list is focusing more on scoring. If it were taking passing and assists into account as well, I'd have him top this list or in second place to MJ, with Magic right up there with them. If we are just talking about scoring though, Larry Legend still more than holds his own. Sharing the ball with McHale and Parish, his scoring average is a bit lower than one might expect but still impressive and he could flat out shoot the basketball with multiple seasons where he shot 50-40-90 (or very close to it). When boredom drives you to shoot left handed for the hell of it and still be unstoppable, you've got some offensive talent.

4. Dirk Nowitzki

I'll have to admit, I wouldn't have thought it before last year's Finals and the power forward thread which made me go back and look at his stats more closely but I'd have to rank him fairly high on this list. He's had a 50-40-90 season and a few very close calls, been good for around 25 ppg during his prime and has continued to add to his arsenal over the years making him an even tougher player to guard.

5. Karl Malone

Consistently put up big scoring numbers throughout his prime, even topping the 30 ppg mark in 1990. Good range for a power forward with a dependable midrange jumpshot, steady free throw shooting (the occasional clutch moment aside) and shot over 50% from the field for all but one year in his prime. One of the best scorers of the 90s.

6. Shaquille O'Neal

Could arguably rank higher with some of the numbers he put up, which include a couple of scoring titles and three seasons falling just shy of that elusive 30 ppg mark. Incredible field goal percentages, leading the league most of the time in that category during his prime. His offensive game was more limited than a lot of players on this list though which is why I don't have him in the top five, but I can't put him much lower than this. Imagine what his numbers would've been like if he could knock down his free throws at a 70% clip or so.

7. Hakeem Olajuwon

His scoring averages weren't always eye-popping, though far from shabby during his best years as he was generally good for somewhere between 22-28 points per game. In addition to his dazzling array of post moves, he was pretty versatile when it came to hitting from a bit further out as well, being able to hurt the defense from pretty much anywhere within 15-17 feet of the basket.

8. Dominique Wilkins

He could do other things, being a better defender and rebounder than he's usually given credit for, but if there's one thing that Nique did well it was score. A scoring title, two 30 ppg seasons (could call it three with a 29.9 ppg season), good for 26-30 ppg in his prime and while a lot of points came off his signature dunks, his offensive game was reasonably well rounded with respectable three point range as well. A scoring machine in the 80s.

9. LeBron James

Pretty much unstoppable when he wants to be but as we saw in last year's Finals, a puzzling non-factor at times as well. Still, LeBron is capable of flat out dominating defenders when he wants to and has rounded out his game since entering the league with a more dependable jumpshot and steadier free throw shooting. Add a scoring title, two 30+ ppg seasons and a few others somewhere in the top 5-10 and I think he's one of the best scorers of the era. When he wants to be.

10. Alex English

Won the scoring title in 1983, one of the top scorers during his prime in the 80s and came very close to averaging 30 a game a couple of times. Impressive percentages from the field and a solid 80%+ free throw shooter. The only thing really missing from his arsenal was a three point shot but like Adrian Dantley, it's understandable given it was early in the three point era.

Next Ten: Charles Barkley, Allen Iverson, Tracy McGrady, Carmelo Anthony, Dwyane Wade, David Robinson, Tim Duncan, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Mark Aguirre, Mitch Richmond

Also worth mentioning: Clyde Drexler, Reggie Miller, Kevin Garnett, Magic Johnson, Ray Allen, Glen Rice, Isiah Thomas

[NovU]

I am not sure how I should be ranking players like Steve Nash here. He's been the leading force of the best offensive teams and without him PHX wouldn't have been anywhere near being possibly the best offensive team in last few decades.

[Lamrock]

1. Charles Barkley (86-93) - Barkley was insanely good in his prime
2. Adrian Dantley (77-84) - Incredible numbers for him
3. LeBron James (04-11) - Playoffs aside, it's impossible to keep him off after his last 3 seasons
4. Dirk Nowitzki (00-07) - Much has been said already about Dirk
5. Steve Nash (01-08) - 49/43/90

[benji]

1. Charles Barkley (86-93) - Barkley was insanely good in his prime

You trying to make up for something? How many nudes do you want sent this time?

Worth noting you made the same mistake Andrew made the first time and many people do because it's easy to not realize, a seven difference in years when you do something like 86-93 is actually eight years.

Still, incredible top two. And both under 6-6 lol.

[NovU]

Only a half-assed list. Perhaps I will come up with rest later. Don't bet on it though as I am extremely lazy, but that's something that can be excused since being Canadian allows me to be lazy unlike Americans who gotta work their ass off to put food on their table and pay off their debt.

I have to admit I couldn't really come up with a clear cut standard measurement for this list.

Rank 0: Michael Jordan
League average scoring per posession in his days were lower but he still excelled with prolific and efficient offense. I know I didn't have to mention about this guy in the list but I just had to.

Rank 1: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
I think I am violating the timeline benji wants to rely on by placing Kareem on the top of the list as his greatest years as an offensive force probably comes from his days before the given date above. But I think he's still one of the best. His offensive winshare just is crazy.

Rank 2: Magic Johnson
He was a great floor general for a great offensive teams for a loooong time. If he was bit more selfish I have to think he could have averaged a lot more in scoring department.

Rank 3: Shaq O'neal
There is no statistics on how many double teams he drew per posession but I think he drew it the most consistently even when ball was being inbounded. Thus, I think he had more damage and impact as an offensive force than what he registered in statistics.

Rank 4: Steve Nash
At first glance, his basic stats are not much different from John Stockton's. But he was the best offensive player on possibly the best offensive team in the history of NBA. He may not have been the prototypical offensive machine like Micheal or Kobe but I had to assume his impact on offensive end was just superb in his career. There was a trade off though. His defense lacked big time. That was the reason why Dallas improved after his departure. They improved on defense while suffered loss in offense. He even excelled in big stages almost keeping up his playoffs OW/48 from regular seasons'.

Rank 5: Lebron James
You may assume that my homerism just kicked in just in time.

[benji]

That was the reason why Dallas improved after his departure. They improved on defense while suffered loss in offense.

They did?

[NovU]

Not nearly as good on offensive end. In last Nash's year with the Mavericks, they were the top in the league in ORTG but the Suns overtook that spot as soon as Nash came.

[benji]

That doesn't mean their offense got worse, just that someone else got better. In 2006 they were first again thanks to Amare being injured.

[NovU]

I actually agree though ortg slightly got worse but very very minimal so pretty much the same. BTW how would you rank Nash, benji?

[rise]

0. Jordan
1. Bryant
2. Barkley
3. Nowitzki
4. O'Neal
5. Dantely
6. Nash
7. James
8. Malone
9. Bird
10. Iverson

[Andrew]

Just to clarify, we are pretty much just focusing on scoring here aren't we? If not, I'll have to revise my list.

[benji]

Nope. Offense. Scoring is a factor, the largest usually, of offense, but it's not the only one. You could make the chicken-egg case for scoring being so far more important that the rest of the factors don't matter though.

Could add a scorers sub-component so you can keep your list and people can do both or one of an offensive players list and scoring only list.

[Andrew]

Alright then, I might do that in addition to a revised list. I'll also have a list in the Greatest Players thread in due course.

[debiler]

I think Reggie deserves a mention just for being one of the most skilled off-ball players the game has ever had.

[kAmilli LakeShow]

I'I'll pick my favs, since i don't really think i know how the "best" list would look like

1. Kobe, i am a fanboy but i think it's pretty reasonable here XD
2. Shaq, just because i never seen ANYBODY dominate the game offensively like he did when he was ON
3. LeBron, 3/4 of time he can just do whatever he wants and you do whatever you can to stop him
4. Karl Malone - Mr. Consistency himself, 2nd all-time only to whose-name-shall-not-be-revealed XD
5. Kareem - Sky hook, sky hook, sky hook, sky hook - 8 points on 4 possessions just like that
6. Hakeem - Just superbig when he and team needed, scores at will in the low post.
7. Nowitzki - The only person who can really guard him is... well, no one. You can only make his looks worse, even when he has no one around him he still has that off-balance-high-arcing jumpshot, he is very consistent with it.
8. Sir Charles. Punished only because of size which sometimes limited his output.
9. Adrian Dantley - great player, great scorer, but he was never really a house-hold name or a player that can take your team all the way to the play-offs or even thru the play-offs, like almost all above him on the list did.
10. Allen Iverson. Offense? We talkin about offense? AI was amazing with it for the big part of his career, it's sad that most of us' last memory of him will be the bricks he put in every game at Detroit

[Mandich]

MJ, Iverson , T-Mac