Greatest Of The Three Point Era: Centers

[benji]

Let's refresh:
We're considering only 1977-78 forward. The best seven year stint of that player, in other words the "prime" of their career.

Should note, that you are not required to name the seven years for the player, it is merely a guideline to focus thoughts on the player at his best and to ignore things like Qballer's post.

And should also note that in instances regarding injuries, yes, go the extra year. For example, Grant Hill only plays SEVEN FULL SEASONS from 1995-2005 despite it being ten years. Also even if they play, like David Robinson in 1996-97, for a few games, you can skip over/include that season. If a player does something like play 17 games in one season and 55 games in another plus six full seasons, you can include both shortened seasons even if it's eight total seasons/years. It's not really fair to enforce seven calender years on the players.

Some ideas of how to do it:
List 1-10 with comments why for each player.
Or:
List 1-5 with comments for each player, and five honorable mentions with a brief comment on those as whole.
And/Or:
Rank the five best offensive players and five best defensive players. Or just with your top ten/five list the top offensive player and top defensive player.

Really no set format, there are plenty of ways of doing it.

[Murat]

...

[benji]

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: All-time scoring leader, creator of the hook shot.
2. Wilt Chamberlain: Still owns the record at most points in a game, all-time rebound leader with 25,000.
3. Bill Russell: Greatest center of the greatest franchise, Boston Celtics.
4. Hakeem Olajuwon: All-time blocking leader, has 2 rings and resurrected Rockets franchise.
5. David Robinson: Resurrected Spurs franchise, he could do everything except outside scoring. With Timmy they created the Twin Towers.

Honorables:
Moses Malone (monster rebounder and scorer), Willis Reed (strengthed C, played for Knicks), Patrick Ewing (he could do a lot of thing at court, more offensive), Wes Unseld (great defender and all-around), Bob Lanier (similar to willis reed).

Ban him. Forever.

[Kenny]

Ummm... Badger

We're considering only 1977-78 forward.

Both Bill Russell and Willis Reed are ineligible for this discussion, as is Unseld since he retired in '81. Lanier might just make it, but it'd be a stretch.

EDIT: How could I forget Wilt?!

[NovU]

I shouldnt be asking this here but ... How long till your pf list? Lolz... I think ppl are dying to see it.

As for C, I will probably post my half assed top 5 in a day or two.

[Andrew]

1. Hakeem Olajuwon

The Dream is my choice for the top spot. He posted amazing numbers for a centre from the time he entered the league but his real standout seasons were 1989-1996 (I know that's eight seasons, but he missed 26 games in 1991 due to problems with an irregular heartbeat). During that span he was comfortably above 20 and 10 with a minimum of around three blocks per game and anywhere from one and a half to two steals for good measure. Reliable shooting percentages from the field and decent enough from the free throw line, he made opposing bigs look clumsy with his post game and also possessed decent range on his jumpshot. At the other end, he was also a stellar defender. I can't go past him at number one.

He's also one of four players to register a quadruple-double.

2. Shaquille O'Neal

Right behind Hakeem is the main he battled in the 1995 Finals, Shaquille O'Neal. Shaq's prime is littered with seasons where he missed upwards of 20 games and the lockout in 1999, so I'm adding an eighth year to my sample and nominating his prime as 1995-2003. Shaq had some great numbers during that span, always good for at least 25 and 10 and at least a couple of blocks, abusing everyone down low to shoot close to 60% from the field. He just tore up the league during the three championship seasons of 2000-2002. It wouldn't be a stretch to place him at number one but The Dream was the more talented player and Shaq had a tendency to coast at times and show up out of shape. I rank him second, but his dominance makes it a close second.

3. David Robinson

The Admiral is third in my book. From 1990-1996, his numbers were comparable to Hakeem's, he also had a quadruple-double to his credit and he's probably the most freakishly athletic player on this list. However, while he was a beast at both ends, he didn't quite dominate the league the way Shaq did and he didn't win like Hakeem, with his championships coming after taking a backseat to Tim Duncan. His reputation for choking and underperforming is a little overblown, but I'd rank him a little behind Hakeem and Shaq all the same. It's pretty close.

4. Patrick Ewing

Probably would've had at least one ring if not for Michael Jordan (and then Hakeem Olajuwon in 1994). Good for at least 22 and 10 from 1990-1996 along with the requisite 2-3 blocks per game, Ewing was great at both ends but not quite as good as the players I've ranked ahead of him. He was also one of the more durable bigs on this list, missing no more than six games in any one season during the span I've nominated at his prime.

5. Moses Malone

From 1979-1985, Moses Malone piled up the points while posting some fantastic rebounding numbers, leading the league in the latter category for six of those seven years. He won back-to-back MVPs with two different teams and played a big part in the Sixers' title win in 1983. He was a monster on the offensive boards, though that was helped a little by his shooting percentages which were kind of low for a big man. Nevertheless, he rounds out my top five.

6. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

It's difficult to put Kareem this low and if we were talking all-time, he'd rate much higher, at least top three. However, these lists are about the three point era and Kareem was heading into the tail end of his career at that time. Nevertheless, he was still one of the best centres in the league even as he entered his late 30s, continuing to rack up points while shooting a high percentage (thanks in no small part to his patented skyhook), blocking shots left and right and snaring rebounds. However, at that point of his career his rebounding numbers weren't quite as gaudy as other players on this list and dipped below double digits beginning in 1982. Still, for what he did from 1978-85 (taking an extra year as he missed 20 games in '78) places him in the top ten.

7. Alonzo Mourning

Zo might've ranked higher if his kidney problems hadn't derailed his career. As it stands he spent most of his first eight years from 1993-2000 (once again taking an extra year due to some games missed through injury and the lockout) slightly above or slightly below the 20-10 mark, fiercely protecting the paint and posting some impressive blocking numbers. Defense was his strong suit but he was a pretty good offensive player too, at times showing a bit of range and getting the job done down low while shooting a good percentage.

8. Dwight Howard

Howard's just finished his seventh year in the league, so that's the only sample we have to work with. He's only really established himself as a 20-10 player the last few years but I expect that will continue thanks to the work he's put in with Hakeem this past offseason and the improvement in his offensive game is evident. His defense and rebounding is what really stands out and if he continues to assert himself offensively and be a dependable scorer, I expect he'll move up the list. He doesn't quite have the resume to rank any higher just yet though.

9. Robert Parish

The Chief probably gets overlooked a bit having played with Larry Bird and Kevin McHale, but he posted some great numbers in his career. Over 20 points per game to go along with 12 rebounds his first three years in Boston, followed by 17 and 10 the next four (1981-1987). Great percentages from the field and pretty solid from the free throw line, he patrolled the paint and posted some good blocking numbers though they dipped below two per game beginning in 1984.

10. Dikembe Mutombo

Mount Mutombo's blocking and rebounding stands out the most, snaring him four Defensive Player of the Year awards throughout his career, but he was probably a little underrated offensively as he did score in double digits for the first ten years of his career and had a couple of dependable post moves. I'll take his first seven years in the league (1992-1998) as his best.

Honourable mentions: Artis Gilmore, Bill Laimbeer, Yao Ming, Ben Wallace, Arvydas Sabonis, Rik Smits, Vlade Divac, Shawn Bradley.

[Mavs4Life]

1. Hakeem Olajuwon

The Dream is my choice for the top spot. He posted amazing numbers for a centre from the time he entered the league but his real standout seasons were 1989-1996 (I know that's eight seasons, but he missed 26 games in 1991 due to problems with an irregular heartbeat). During that span he was comfortably above 20 and 10 with a minimum of around three blocks per game and anywhere from one and a half to two steals for good measure. Reliable shooting percentages from the field and decent enough from the free throw line, he made opposing bigs look clumsy with his post game and also possessed decent range on his jumpshot. At the other end, he was also a stellar defender. I can't go past him at number one.

He's also one of four players to register a quadruple-double.

2. Shaquille O'Neal

Right behind Hakeem is the main he battled in the 1995 Finals, Shaquille O'Neal. Shaq's prime is littered with seasons where he missed upwards of 20 games and the lockout in 1999, so I'm adding an eighth year to my sample and nominating his prime as 1995-2003. Shaq had some great numbers during that span, always good for at least 25 and 10 and at least a couple of blocks, abusing everyone down low to shoot close to 60% from the field. He just tore up the league during the three championship seasons of 2000-2002. It wouldn't be a stretch to place him at number one but The Dream was the more talented player and Shaq had a tendency to coast at times and show up out of shape. I rank him second, but his dominance makes it a close second.

3. David Robinson

The Admiral is third in my book. From 1990-1996, his numbers were comparable to Hakeem's, he also had a quadruple-double to his credit and he's probably the most freakishly athletic player on this list. However, while he was a beast at both ends, he didn't quite dominate the league the way Shaq did and he didn't win like Hakeem, with his championships coming after taking a backseat to Tim Duncan. His reputation for choking and underperforming is a little overblown, but I'd rank him a little behind Hakeem and Shaq all the same. It's pretty close.

4. Patrick Ewing

Probably would've had at least one ring if not for Michael Jordan (and then Hakeem Olajuwon in 1994). Good for at least 22 and 10 from 1990-1996 along with the requisite 2-3 blocks per game, Ewing was great at both ends but not quite as good as the players I've ranked ahead of him. He was also one of the more durable bigs on this list, missing no more than six games in any one season during the span I've nominated at his prime.

5. Moses Malone

From 1979-1985, Moses Malone piled up the points while posting some fantastic rebounding numbers, leading the league in the latter category for six of those seven years. He won back-to-back MVPs with two different teams and played a big part in the Sixers' title win in 1983. He was a monster on the offensive boards, though that was helped a little by his shooting percentages which were kind of low for a big man. Nevertheless, he rounds out my top five.

6. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

It's difficult to put Kareem this low and if we were talking all-time, he'd rate much higher, at least top three. However, these lists are about the three point era and Kareem was heading into the tail end of his career at that time. Nevertheless, he was still one of the best centres in the league even as he entered his late 30s, continuing to rack up points while shooting a high percentage (thanks in no small part to his patented skyhook), blocking shots left and right and snaring rebounds. However, at that point of his career his rebounding numbers weren't quite as gaudy as other players on this list and dipped below double digits beginning in 1982. Still, for what he did from 1978-85 (taking an extra year as he missed 20 games in '78) places him in the top ten.

7. Alonzo Mourning

Zo might've ranked higher if his kidney problems hadn't derailed his career. As it stands he spent most of his first eight years from 1993-2000 (once again taking an extra year due to some games missed through injury and the lockout) slightly above or slightly below the 20-10 mark, fiercely protecting the paint and posting some impressive blocking numbers. Defense was his strong suit but he was a pretty good offensive player too, at times showing a bit of range and getting the job done down low while shooting a good percentage.

8. Dwight Howard

Howard's just finished his seventh year in the league, so that's the only sample we have to work with. He's only really established himself as a 20-10 player the last few years but I expect that will continue thanks to the work he's put in with Hakeem this past offseason and the improvement in his offensive game is evident. His defense and rebounding is what really stands out and if he continues to assert himself offensively and be a dependable scorer, I expect he'll move up the list. He doesn't quite have the resume to rank any higher just yet though.

9. Robert Parish

The Chief probably gets overlooked a bit having played with Larry Bird and Kevin McHale, but he posted some great numbers in his career. Over 20 points per game to go along with 12 rebounds his first three years in Boston, followed by 17 and 10 the next four (1981-1987). Great percentages from the field and pretty solid from the free throw line, he patrolled the paint and posted some good blocking numbers though they dipped below two per game beginning in 1984.

10. Dikembe Mutombo

Mount Mutombo's blocking and rebounding stands out the most, snaring him four Defensive Player of the Year awards throughout his career, but he was probably a little underrated offensively as he did score in double digits for the first ten years of his career and had a couple of dependable post moves. I'll take his first seven years in the league (1992-1998) as his best.

Honourable mentions: Artis Gilmore, Bill Laimbeer, Yao Ming, Ben Wallace, Arvydas Sabonis, Rik Smits, Vlade Divac, Shawn Bradley.

This was my list, except I had Shaq at 1, & Hakeem at 2. I problably would of put Kareem in the top 5, but Andrew's right his prime was befor 77-78.

[Murat]

1. Hakeem
2. Shaq
3. M. Malone
4. Ewing
5. Abdul-Jabbar
6. Howard
7. D. Robinson
8. Parish
9. B. Wallace
10. Mutombo

Notables: Laimbeer, Yao, Dwight Howard.

Andrew, SHAWN BRADLEY??? WHAT?

[Andrew]

Andrew, SHAWN BRADLEY??? WHAT?

Yes, he's worth a mention. He's nowhere near cracking the top ten and I listed him last in my honourable mentions for a reason, but he wasn't quite the terrible player he's often made out to be. He was an excellent shotblocker; he obviously had a huge natural advantage there but he used his height and length very effectively. Compare his blocking numbers to someone like Rik Smits, admittedly a couple of inches shorter but played more minutes and had very ordinary blocking numbers for someone over 7'2". Bradley was also good for double digits in scoring early in his career along with around eight rebounds, posting somewhere between 10-15 points along and 9-11 rebounds per 36 in his prime. Worth a mention, certainly not top ten or the most notable omission.

[[Q]]

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: All-time scoring leader, creator of the hook shot.
2. Wilt Chamberlain: Still owns the record at most points in a game, all-time rebound leader with 25,000.
3. Bill Russell: Greatest center of the greatest franchise, Boston Celtics.
4. Hakeem Olajuwon: All-time blocking leader, has 2 rings and resurrected Rockets franchise.
5. David Robinson: Resurrected Spurs franchise, he could do everything except outside scoring. With Timmy they created the Twin Towers.

Honorables:
Moses Malone (monster rebounder and scorer), Willis Reed (strengthed C, played for Knicks), Patrick Ewing (he could do a lot of thing at court, more offensive), Wes Unseld (great defender and all-around), Bob Lanier (similar to willis reed).

Ban him. Forever.

lol at least i didnt mess up that bad

[The X]

X's Top 10

1. Hakeem Olajuwon ('89-'95): This was the easy pick. He outdueled Shaq, Admiral & Ewing in playoff head-to-heads. Obviously Shaq's numbers suggest he's top but he gets penalised for not making the most of his talents.

2. Shaquille O'Neal ('96-'03): Statistically & physically the most dominating of the era. Given his numbers was hard to keep him this low, but personal bias meant such is the case.

3. David Robinson ('90-'96): It's a crying shame he lost his first two years to Navy. Slightly edges Kareem.

4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar ('78-'84): Almost had him at three, almost put Malone over him, but put him square in middle.

5. Moses Malone ('79-'85): He can't go below this spot, he just can't.

6. Dwight Howard ('05-'11): Edges Ewing since he's numbers through his first seven years are pretty comparable to Ewing's best seven. Dwight's will get better, so hard to put him below Ewing.

7. Patrick Ewing ('89-'95): Solid All-Star.

8. Alonzo Mourning ('93-'00): Narrowly edges the next two. Good defensive centre.

9. Yao Ming ('03-'11): He was probably underrated a little due to his playing style & demeanour. He's top 10 though. Slightly edges Sabonis only because Arvydas was well past his prime by the time he arrived over. Shame Arvydas didn't come over at least half a decade earlier.

10. Arvydas Sabonis ('96-'03): I couldn't leave Arvydas off the list. He's a legend. He didn't enter the league until he was in his 30's & he still cracks the top 10!!! His time with Blazers was underrated.


Honorable mentions: In no particular order I have to mention the likes of Brad Daugherty, Vlade Divac, Robert Parish, Dikembe Mutombo etc.

[Andrew]

Brad Daughtery's someone I left off my honourable mentions and he's certainly worth mentioning. Someone else whose career was derailed by injuries.

Sabonis is a legend but I'm still not sure I'd put him in the top ten going by his NBA career. Glancing at his stats again, his numbers per 36 are pretty good but I don't know. I'd personally still say top fifteen, not too far out from top ten.

[Rip32]

1 Hakeem Olajuwan - So good defensively and so polished offensively, I just wish we could have seen a Rockets-Bulls NBA Finals in the mid-90s.
2 Shaquille O'Neal - People always trash him for being just a power player, but dominance is dominance. Imagine if he was ALWAYS motivated?
3 David Robinson - Remembered most for his defense, but was a great offensive player and formed the greatest C-PF duo ever with Duncan.
4 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - Why hasn't anyone asked him to help them perfect their own sky hook? Seriously.
5 Moses Malone - I think he's the best rebounder of this time period, and probably third best of all time behind Chamberlain and Russel.
6 Patrick Ewing - One of my favorite players. He was always so steady on both sides of the ball; another versatile offensive player.
7 Dwight Howard - Still getting better every year, which is scary, but I think he could get to the top five by the end of his career.
8 Alonzo Mourning - Take away his health problems and he's probably ahead of Ewing. But the fact that he overcame those problems is legit too.
9 Robert Parish - You never hear about him, but the guy was the definition of a lunch pale player. Brought it every single year.
10 Yao Ming - Guys come into the league with a lot of hype, and many fail, but Yao dealt with all that stuff well, never seemed to bug him.

Honorable Mention
Arvydas Sabonis - The NBA missed out on his prime years, but I've read that they were epic.
Dikembe Mutombo - Who can forget the finger wave?
Ben Wallace - D-d-d-defense. One of the best undersized players of all time.
Vlade Divac - Such a good passer, he just always seemed like a super-likable player.

[Andrew]

I really wanted to put Yao in the top ten but with so many notable centres in the era and his abbreviated career, he just missed the cut for me. Another case where I'd say there's not much in it.

[Rip32]

I really wanted to put Dikembe in there like you did, but after he left Philly he just had a long stretch of being exclusively a solid defensive backup. He tailed off from very good starting center to meh quickly.

[Kenny]

3 David Robinson - Remembered most for his defense, but was a great offensive player and formed the greatest C-PF duo ever with Duncan.

He was an excellent defensive player, but the most fond memory I have of him was beating Shaq to the scoring title by scoring 71 in a game.

[NovU]

1) David Robinson (93-94 to 99-00)
Amazing career he had and monstrous stats he put up during his prime. 2 rings he got may have been overshadowed bit by Duncan's presence but the Admiral still tops my list with his monstrous and efficienct stats from his prime. I have a feeling he could have topped most peoples' list if he could have snatched one or two rings before Duncan's joining.

2) Shaquille O'neal (96-97 to 02-03)
The most dominant big man to play the game, because he knew exactly how to maximize his talent, his size. He certainly looked undefendable in his prime. Nobody seemed to be able to hold the ground against him in the paint. Hence, he's my #2. But I also can't shake off the feeling that he could have been even better if it wasn't for his conditioning at times.

3) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (77-78 to 82-83)
Too bad for him that we are only considering seasons from 77-78. Widely known as the best center ever by many. Possibly it could be true if we were to consider his full career.

4) Hakeem Olajuwon (88-89 to 94-95)
The most skilled center ever. Also a solid defensive presence. A great two way player who was so much fun to watch. Embarrasing the defensive player of year in David Robinson in the playoffs was just amazing.

5) Kevin McHale (83-84 to 89-90)
3 time world Champion on top of bunch of achievements. One of them being first player ever to shoot 60% from the field and shooting above 80% from the free throw line.

Honorable mentions: Bryant Reeves, Otis Thorpe, Manute Bol, Gheorghe Muresan, Todd MacCulloch. It wouldn't be a surprise even if any of these guys made to anybody's top 5.

[The X]

I believe McHale was being treated as a PF for the purposes of these lists.

[shadowgrin]

5 Moses Malone - I think he's the best rebounder of this time period, and probably third best of all time behind Chamberlain and Russel.

[Andrew]

I really wanted to put Dikembe in there like you did, but after he left Philly he just had a long stretch of being exclusively a solid defensive backup. He tailed off from very good starting center to meh quickly.

Fair call, though we are going by their best seven year stint (give or take, with examples and exceptions outlined in the first post).

[Rip32]

Touche Andre. And Jesus, I totally forgot about Rodman for some reason haha, +1 for Shadowgrin on that catch. I take that back, Moses is fourth behind Rodman and the aforementioned duo.

[Axel The Great]

NovU, just a curious question I have. What's your reasoning behind putting Robinson ahead of Shaq, Kareem, and especially Olajuwon? The Dream dominated Robinson in '95, while pretty much everyone else ranked him below Shaq and Kareem. Unless they're not in any particular order.

Will hopefully not procrastinate and make my list sooner rather than later. Everyone probably already knows who my number 1 and 10 is.

[NovU]

I believe McHale was being treated as a PF for the purposes of these lists.

In that case, please replace McHale with Bryant Reeves from my list.

NovU, just a curious question I have. What's your reasoning behind putting Robinson ahead of Shaq, Kareem, and especially Olajuwon? The Dream dominated Robinson in '95, while pretty much everyone else ranked him below Shaq and Kareem. Unless they're not in any particular order.

Based on some stats. I understand how others could go before him but for me, it was hard to ignore some of his numbers.
WS/48 and WS wise, he had unbelievable career. The season with 0.296 WS/48 and 20 WS? That is just Jordan-figuristic. Avg of 30% usg and nearly about 29 PER during prime also showcases that he was extremely efficient. It's true that Olajuwon outplayed him time to time but I believe Robinson was a bigger part of success in terms of contribution to the team.

[shadowgrin]

I believe Robinson was a bigger part of success in terms of contribution to the team.

Robinson was the team. iirc the Spurs were a 60 win team before the year he got injured. Got injured, team sucked so much to even scrape 20 wins, which eventually got them that boring big man named Tim Duncan in the Draft.

[NovU]

Thanks for clearing that up. Yeah, I wasn't sure if that huge drop in wins was all because of Robinson's injury but certainly it played a big role I assume.

Just because Olajuwon outplayed him in their meetings, it shouldn't make Robinson any less of a player than what he really is. Bynum outplayed Howard couple times in their meetings and perhaps it will happen every now and then, but Howard in general is a superior player.