Ranking the GMs

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Ranking the GMs

Postby benji on Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:37 am

http://www.sbnation.com/2010/7/22/15823 ... riley-heat
One of my favorite pieces of writing of the summer was this NBA Fanhouse article by Bethlehem Shoals about the plight of the NBA General Manager. As someone who never hesitates to criticize a GM's decision, it was a pleasure to read.

What we forget is that NBA GMs face a unique challenge. On the one hand, the GM is arguably the most important person within the organization. Coaches matter, of course, but the NBA is primarily a players' league, with the coach acting more as a manager. The players matter, insomuch as they decide games. The owner matters because he is at the top of the organization's flow chart. The general manager, however, delivers the players, hires the coach and carries out the owner's vision. He's ultimately the one who has his fingers in every part of the team.

But on the other hand, a general manager often doesn't matter that much. The NBA is forever a superstars' league, and most of the time, everyone knows who is going to be a superstar. It doesn't take a genius to pick LeBron James, Tim Duncan, Shaquille O'Neal, Magic Johnson, Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson, John Wall and other great No. 1 picks. That one player can mask so many mistakes a GM makes and make him out to be more of a genius than he actually is.

You can see where the whole picture becomes really murky. General managers are criticized for a number of unrelated things, but the reality is that this is not a level playing field. We try to objectively evaluate GMs by looking at their win-loss record, but that's completely unfair because GMs deal with different owners, have varying degrees of luck in finding that elusive superstar and operate under different budgets (not every team can pay the luxury tax, you know). Context is so important, and yet, whenever people evaluate NBA GMs, it often is on some sort of universal scale (e.g. winning). I realize why we talk in these kind of terms (the age of Twitter, the enlightened fan, etc.), but it doesn't have to be like this.

Therefore, I'm going to attempt the 30 NBA GMs using a more qualitative scale that goes beyond one's win-loss record. I will do my best to consider context rather than wins. We'll count from 30 to 1, because I'm guessing you all want to read about bad GMs first.

1. Pat Riley, Heat
2. Kevin O'Connor, Jazz
3. Daryl Morey, Rockets
4. Sam Presti, Thunder
5. Mark Warkentien, Nuggets
6. Kevin Pritchard, Blazers
7. R.C. Buford, Spurs
8. Danny Ainge, Celtics
9. Geoff Petrie, Kings
10. Donnie Nelson, Mavericks
11. John Hammond, Bucks
12. Rod Thorn, Nets
13. Mitch Kupchak, Lakers
14. Donnie Walsh, Knicks
15. Danny Ferry, Cavaliers
16. Steve Kerr, Suns
17. Otis Smith, Magic
18. Ernie Grunfeld, Wizards
19. Gar Forman/John Paxson, Bulls
20. Jeff Bower, Hornets
21. Chris Wallace, Grizzlies
22. Rick Sund, Hawks
23. Michael Jordan/Rod Higgins, Bobcats
24. Joe Dumars, Pistons
25. Mike Dunleavy, Clippers
26. David Kahn, Timberwolves
27. Bryan Colangelo, Raptors
28. Larry Riley, Warriors
29. Ed Stefanski, 76ers
30. Larry Bird, Pacers
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Re: Ranking the GMs

Postby Axel The Great on Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:56 pm

Daryl Morey is third! I thought he'd be farther down.
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Re: Ranking the GMs

Postby Static on Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:07 pm

"Coaches matter, of course, but the NBA is primarily a players' league, with the coach acting more as a manager."

Really? I don't know so much about that assumption itself. Maybe that could be said about less effective coaches, but I don't think you can discuss the successes of franchises like Los Angeles, Utah, San Antonio, or Portland without bring into the discussion Phil Jackson, Jerry Sloan, Gregg Popovich, and Nate McMillan, to name a few great coaches.
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Re: Ranking the GMs

Postby Laxation on Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Presti should be higher. Kahn should be much, much, much lower. Can it go to 79 and 78 for him and Sund? Wallace can go somewhere around 40-50 mark.
What a fucking retarded list...

Dumars at 24? Buford at 7? ffs...
Buford + Presit 1-2
Dumars top 5, at LEAST top 10. Put up a contending team for 6 years, which is amazing even if the team sucks now.

Riley should take minimal credit for Wade bringing the other 2 over - it does not propell him to #1 over someone like Buford. Why the fuck is he at 7... jesus christ
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Re: Ranking the GMs

Postby Martti. on Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:32 pm

Kahn should be #30.
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Re: Ranking the GMs

Postby benji on Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:39 pm

You guys should read the article to see the ranking justifications. The reasoning is more sound than the ranking initially suggests.

I can't put Dumars top five or top ten after what he did to the team the last three years.
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Re: Ranking the GMs

Postby hova- on Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:47 pm

Kahn got fined 50k for talking about Beasley's marijuana consume. That's so ridiculous. You're not allowed to say a fuckin word in the NBA about anything. Beasley was an addicted pothead. Actually he should be thrown out of the league. Some guys just don't see that they are pros and earn more money per year than I will in my whole life. That makes me so goddam angry. Instead of enjoying their status the right way, making the best out of it, they get high all day.

Oh and for Dumars. The way the Pistons clicked when they won the Championship in 2004 (?) was pretty impressive. But signing Charlie V and Ben Gordon and letting go Ben Wallace when he was still a decent player (hell, if he had never left the Pistons, he would at least have had two or three more good years) AND trading Chauncey for AI (wtf) does not really give him a top 10 place.
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Re: Ranking the GMs

Postby Laxation on Sun Jul 25, 2010 12:20 am

Does it make Dumars 24 then? He stuffed up a couple years, but Ferry, Kerr (sure, it might be owner's fault moreso, but still) Walsh, Smith, etc, all havn't been to the Conference Finals 6 years in a row, or even come close.
Putting Buford at 7 is enough to say this list is wrong.
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Re: Ranking the GMs

Postby rise on Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:42 am

How fitting that MJ gets to be 23 again...
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Re: Ranking the GMs

Postby Modifly on Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:11 am

Axel13 wrote:Daryl Morey is third! I thought he'd be farther down.


He deserves to be ranked that high. Just look at all the players he acquired for the Rockets from late draft picks, sneaky trades and steals. Eg. Aaron Brooks, Carl Landry, Luis Scola, Kevin Martin, Jordan Hill, Kyle Lowry, etc. I think Morey tends to see things other people don't as a result of his detailed research, analysis and observation. This is why Rockets fan trust him so much in whatever roster move he's going to make.
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Re: Ranking the GMs

Postby Axel The Great on Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:19 am

Now that you mentioned it, and I read the article, I see why. I hope he continues to bring good players Houston. (Y)
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Re: Ranking the GMs

Postby Lamrock on Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:46 am

Good article. I agree with a lot of it. I'd probably put Otis Smith up higher, drop Wark a few spots and have MJ at thirty after the Chandler deal. Won't bother to post my rankings because it would be a waste of time and forum space, them being pretty similar.
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Re: Ranking the GMs

Postby shadowgrin on Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:18 am

Axel13 wrote:Daryl Morey is third! I thought he'd be farther down.

Axel13 wrote:read the article
HE'S USING HYPNOSIS!
JaoSming2KTV wrote:its fun on a bun
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Re: Ranking the GMs

Postby Axel The Great on Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:57 am

Stop picking on me! :evil: :cry:
:lol:
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Re: Ranking the GMs

Postby J@3 on Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:39 pm

Pat Riley: 15 years, 7 first round exits, 3 lottery appearances, 1 championship = #1 GM in the NBA.
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Re: Ranking the GMs

Postby Modifly on Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:05 pm

The article was written after Riley landed LeBron and Bosh in Miami wasn't it? If that's the case then I think that's the main reason why he's ranked at no.1, not taking anything before that into concern. :shake:
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Re: Ranking the GMs

Postby Andrew on Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:20 pm

Bryan Colangelo's ranking is surprising, not because it's undeserved but because his run in Phoenix seemed to suggest better things when the Raptors hired him in 2006. I see why Joe Dumars was ranked so low, but I'm not sure the last couple of years should outweigh his past successes. PaxMan's ranking seems fair, after their performance this offseason I'd perhaps be inclined to rank them a little higher but I see where he's coming from.
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Re: Ranking the GMs

Postby Lamrock on Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:58 pm

To be honest, I would put Colangelo at 30. Turrible idea going into the tax for a 30 win team and signing white guys who can't defend to long-term deals.
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Re: Ranking the GMs

Postby benji on Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:09 pm

Dumars had a team full of young talent, and veterans he could have moved or let walk to create cap space, he turned that into Charlie V, Ben Gordon, more years of a near max Rip Hamilton, and decided to build around a "guard" who is completely useless but reminds him of himself. It worked with Billups, it's not going to work with Stuckey.

If he wasn't smart at drafting this would be the worst team in basketball, as it is, it's only the worst team in the East, so that's something. Won't help when he dumps them for nothing in a couple years like he did Amir and Darko.
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Re: Ranking the GMs

Postby Fenix on Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:09 am

Riley, Kahn, Jordan should be lower, Kupchak, Buford, GarPax higher.

benji wrote:Dumars had a team full of young talent, and veterans he could have moved or let walk to create cap space, he turned that into Charlie V, Ben Gordon, more years of a near max Rip Hamilton, and decided to build around a "guard" who is completely useless but reminds him of himself. It worked with Billups, it's not going to work with Stuckey.

If he wasn't smart at drafting this would be the worst team in basketball, as it is, it's only the worst team in the East, so that's something. Won't help when he dumps them for nothing in a couple years like he did Amir and Darko.


+1. I don't think he's that much of a drafter, though. He sure did find some solid players late in the draft, but overall his drafting record is more of a B-/C+ than an A.
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Re: Ranking the GMs

Postby Lamrock on Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:06 am

Pistons worst team in the East? That's pretty harsh considering the likes of Washington, Toronto and Indiana (maybe the Nets too). Dumars is a very good drafter though. Not sure about Daye (though I like him), but he always owns the second round, with Jerebko, Amir (so awesome when not in foul trouble), Okur, etc.

IMO the bottom 3 should be Jordan, Colangelo and Grunfeld (author was a Wizards homer, because Ernie blows)
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Re: Ranking the GMs

Postby Laxation on Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:41 pm

Lamrock wrote:Pistons worst team in the East? That's pretty harsh considering the likes of Washington, Toronto and Indiana (maybe the Nets too). Dumars is a very good drafter though. Not sure about Daye (though I like him), but he always owns the second round, with Jerebko, Amir (so awesome when not in foul trouble), Okur, etc.

IMO the bottom 3 should be Jordan, Colangelo and Grunfeld (author was a Wizards homer, because Ernie blows)

He is a terrible drafter in the first round.
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Re: Ranking the GMs

Postby Lamrock on Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:52 pm

Stuckey isn't great, but arguably worth a mid first rounder, Daye has potential, Monroe looks good, Afflalo is Afflawless, anyone would've taken Darko, Maxiell is good...
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