Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

[Dee4Three]

Even between the ages of 38-40, Jordan would guard the opposing teams best player on any given night. The respect for this man and his competitiveness is endless. In a league where routinely I see the best players on teams not working hard on defense, or not taking the best player on the opposing team, or literally being placed on the weakest offensive player on the opposing teams starting five, this is refreshing to see.


Here he is at age 38-39 guarding a young Vince Carter. He picks up two early fouls, but goes back onto him in the second half.

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Here's Jordan guarding Paul Pierce, and shutting him down in the 4th quarter.

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Jordan guarding TMAC, and TMAC guarding Jordan.

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For fun, people don't realize how great he was when he came back. Before he got hurt through like 25 games, he was leading the league in scoring and the Wizards were one of the top teams in the east.. with a really poor roster.

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51 points at age 38 on the Hornets, making them look silly.

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And to compare (No comparison between LeBron and him anyway). Here is a 33 year old LeBron, on Roberson and the worst Thunder offensive players all game.

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LeBron on Mbah a Moute all game

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Here is Greek Freak Guarding LeBron, but LeBron guarding Henson and Liggins all game.

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It's not that LeBron doesn't guard the best player, or the second best player. He routinely guards the worst offensive player on the floor in the opposing teams lineup. So this isn't about "Well when they had Crowder, they put Crowder on the best". LeBron is literally hidden on defense (By choice or by the coach, or both) in pretty much every single game you watch. And it has nothing to do with expending energy on offense, either. As the majority of his possessions (Which teammates have complained about), he's literally just dribbling in one spot, or holding the ball with not a lot of movement. Bottom line, he is as overrated on defense as he is on offense (In my opinion).

By the way, this isn't me comparing LeBron and Jordan in a legend sense, because frankly it's not even close. This is me pointing out a flaw in the perception of LeBron by the majority of supporters who don't actually pay attention or know basketball, it's the same people who state that Jordan was a "shitty jump shooter", even though he is the greatest jump shooter of all time.

[Andrew]

It's hard to call Michael Jordan underrated, but when it comes to his defense, I think sometimes he was. At the very least, it doesn't get nearly as much attention as his offense, which admittedly was prolific and spectacular, thus it's what people focused on.

[Dee4Three]

It's hard to call Michael Jordan underrated, but when it comes to his defense, I think sometimes he was. At the very least, it doesn't get nearly as much attention as his offense, which admittedly was prolific and spectacular, thus it's what people focused on.

Agreed. He was an elite defender his whole career. The Bulls having him and Pippen guarding wings every game must have been a nightmare for opposing teams.

[Dee4Three]

here is an attempt to guard the opposing teams best player (Durant demolished him in this series, shooting well over 60% with him guarding him).

My favorite part, the 1:40 mark of the video.

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[[Q]]

To be fair, LeBron is a bigger dude and isn't as quick as Jordan and he also hasn't hit that age yet. I'd say it would probably be easier to compare Kobe at this point

[Dee4Three]

To be fair, LeBron is a bigger dude and isn't as quick as Jordan and he also hasn't hit that age yet. I'd say it would probably be easier to compare Kobe at this point

He hasn't hit that age yet?

You can't defend LeBron, the most athletic and strongest player on his team, taking the WORST player on the opposing team every game. Literally the worst player on the opposing team. He's not quick enough laterally to guard the second, or third bests? He hasn't stepped up and said "Listen, Ill take him, hes killing us" or at the start of the game said "I got him" to one of the top 3 players in a teams starting lineup? I would be ashamed if I were him. He has never been an elite defender anyway, but the last few years its been flat out abysmal. The effort alone is garbage.

You are telling me that a 38-40 year old Jordan is more athletically gifted to guard opposing teams best players? Or is it that he is not just a better defender, but a smarter defender who puts pride into his defense. Your age comment doesn't really make sense, as I am comparing a 33 year old LeBron with a 38-39 year old Jordan.

1:40 of that video perfectly sums up how much LeBron cares about defense. Teams were upset at his "Defense Rant" to the bench a few weeks back, probably precisely for those reasons. For that fact that not only is he lazy on D (And stat padding all the time), but he is always guarding the worst player in the opposing teams lineup.

[air gordon]

Andrew,
Underrated? Jordan shares the record for most all NBA 1st defensive teams selections

[Dee4Three]

Andrew,
Underrated? Jordan shares the record for most all NBA 1st defensive teams selections

Pretty sure he means that people seldom talk about his defense, instead they praise his offense.

Just like I hear people mostly praise the athletic part of Jordan's offense(the acrobatic side), and hardly anybody talks about his amazing post game and jump shooting.

Jordan is an all time great defender.

[Andrew]

Andrew,
Underrated? Jordan shares the record for most all NBA 1st defensive teams selections

Pretty sure he means that people seldom talk about his defense, instead they praise his offense.

Just like I hear people mostly praise the athletic part of Jordan's offense(the acrobatic side), and hardly anybody talks about his amazing post game and jump shooting.

Jordan is an all time great defender.

That is indeed what I meant.

[air gordon]

Let's not overstate it. In that awesome 7 game series against the pacers, Jordan guarded... Not Mark Jackson, not Reggie Miller, but Chris Mullin

So I guess breathing is underrated too since hardly anyone talks about it

[Dee4Three]

Mullin was 3rd on the team in scoring that year (Behind Smits and Miller). Jackson averaged 8.3. Mullin was not the worst offensive player on the floor at all. So that is not a good comparison.

Also, in game 7 Jordan was on Miller for a good portion of the game, and Miller only hit one shot on him.

LeBron covers the worst player on the opposing team it seems every game, sometimes even the worst bench player (Like Liggins).

LeBron as a defender is a joke next to Jordan.

Jordan also held Miller to 0 Fgs guarding him in the 4th quarter of game 7 in that series.

Taking on the best scorer in the 4th quarter of a game 7? Who would have thought.

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[air gordon]

if you watched the games, replay or not, you would know Mark Jackson was a key cog to the Pacers defense. Pippen harassing himself early on was key in the opening games. Jackson came up big when Pippen was in foul trouble

Phil Jackson admitted he put Jordan on Mullin so Jordan could save his energy.

and it was Pippen, not Jordan, guarding Magic as a big key in that Bulls-Lakers finals

as i said, let's not use hyperbole or overstate on how Jordan was this defensive terror 24/7. in hulk voice "Jordan great defense! smash!". ok we all know now even if some people don't talk about it that much

[Dee4Three]

It's Jordan stopping Miller in general in game 7, hes guarding the best player on the Pacers.

And just stop, don't compare Mullin even at that point in his career to Mbah a Moute, Roberson, etc.

Jordan took on the challenge in game 7, he took on the challenge at 38 against the likes of Carter, TMAC and Pierce in the regular season.

Mocking my attempt to show Jordan's defensive strength, as well as mental strength to guard the best player, while showing the exact opposite out of the supposed "Best player in the world? This is of course pertaining to the hulk smash comment. And Uh oh, did I also annoy you with posting basketball videos on a basketball forum? You have had a problem with that in the past.

This is a relevant topic as it pertains to the way basketball history is looked at/will be looked at, especially when looking back at LeBron's career. More than relevant, actually hoping more people jump in on this thread. Most people I see comment on other forums, or FB, or Youtube videos, or people I talk to at work, consider LeBron one of or THE greatest all around player of all time. That includes defense.

Any comment on LeBron's putrid defense? The 1:40 mark play? Or his guarding the worst player every game?

[Sauru]

It's hard to call Michael Jordan underrated, but when it comes to his defense, I think sometimes he was. At the very least, it doesn't get nearly as much attention as his offense, which admittedly was prolific and spectacular, thus it's what people focused on.

to me this just proves that most people watching basketball and commenting about it have no actual understanding of it. Jordan is the best to play the game because of his defense. the fact that he had such a complete game. sadly we have people who harp on the fact that he didnt fire up 97 3's per game but thats to be expected with todays NBA fan

[Andrew]

Triple-doubles have also become the standard for measuring all-around play now. Of course, when Nikola Jokic already has more triple-doubles through his first three seasons than LeBron James did through his first three, I'd suggest it's an indication of the way that the game has changed (strategically, stylistically, and in terms of the rules), rather than skill level or any particular point about a specific player.

[Dee4Three]

Triple-doubles have also become the standard for measuring all-around play now. Of course, when Nikola Jokic already has more triple-doubles through his first three seasons than LeBron James did through his first three, I'd suggest it's an indication of the way that the game has changed (strategically, stylistically, and in terms of the rules), rather than skill level or any particular point about a specific player.

I agree with this.

All around basketball player, doesn't mean just points/rebounds/assists. People will state LeBron had an all time great NBA finals because of those 3 stats, disregarding the fact that he shot a putrid FG% in the second half of games in the series, got destroyed by Durant individually (Durant shot over 60%), and he was a ghost on defense otherwise (Lack of effort looked to be the part of it). That's why he is the ultimate stat padder, lay off your man hoping he misses the shot, that way you are in the area to get a rebound. That's why players accused him of waiting to make the assist pass instead of the right pass. Or in blowouts, him quickly trying to put up points before he gets taken out (By plowing to get fouled).

The casual fans, and teenagers/kids... only see the triple double, or the high scoring totals, and they think he is the greatest. People who actually pay attention to the games, watch him play, and can understand what is going on, know better.

This my friends, says it all.

[Andrew]

I wonder if part of LeBron's problem is pacing himself, especially now that he's in his 30s and playing heavy minutes every year with so many trips to the Finals. He'd start out like a house on fire in the first half of each game in last year's Finals, putting up big numbers, then wilted in the second half. As they aged and had more mileage on their bodies, a lot of the greats developed new tricks and picked their spots effectively, still putting up big numbers and being effective without burning themselves out. LeBron is still a great athlete, but he relies very heavily on that. I feel like he sometimes pushes too hard too early on, racking up gaudy first half stats, but it comes back to bite him when he runs out of steam and can't utilise his athleticism...especially come the championship round after a long NBA season.

[air gordon]

It's hard to call Michael Jordan underrated, but when it comes to his defense, I think sometimes he was. At the very least, it doesn't get nearly as much attention as his offense, which admittedly was prolific and spectacular, thus it's what people focused on.

to me this just proves that most people watching basketball and commenting about it have no actual understanding of it. Jordan is the best to play the game because of his defense. the fact that he had such a complete game. sadly we have people who harp on the fact....

well said

Jordan was a great player on defense. It is impressive during his older years he was doing what he was doing.

Hooray for youtube for having archived footage. We’re very fortunate to have access to it. Post away all you like

I’m merely mentioning that despite all the greatness and defensive prowess of Jordan, he wasn’t always 100% max effort/always guarding the best players.

I suggest you find other people to discuss basketball with if they didn’t think Jordan played great defense and think Lebron James is playing good defense this year.


Jokic is an awesome offensive player. i don't think i've heard him reffered to as a great "all around player" or even above average defender/rim protector.

LOL, where is Q's response

[Dee4Three]

I have heard people state that Jokic is a great all around player. Christ, in a broadcast Reggie Miller said it (and compared him to Chris Webber), which got completely laughed at and shut down by Charles Barkley.

Also, I didn't state it was just people I talk to, I stated I see those comments everywhere. It's on forums, blogspots, FB, Youtube, everywhere.

And yes, Youtube is a beautiful thing. Archived videos are a beautiful thing. Nice that we have all of that for reference, and use in basketball discussions.

[air gordon]

I wonder if part of LeBron's problem is pacing himself, especially now that he's in his 30s and playing heavy minutes every year with so many trips to the Finals. He'd start out like a house on fire in the first half of each game in last year's Finals, putting up big numbers, then wilted in the second half. As they aged and had more mileage on their bodies, a lot of the greats developed new tricks and picked their spots effectively, still putting up big numbers and being effective without burning themselves out. L....especially come the championship round after a long NBA season.

t's just not James. even a legend like Magic wasn't guardin gother teams best players. Rodman didn't guard the Dream until the 4th quarter of games. Pop sits his players for an entire game (lol) and Kerr limits his guys minutes and they aren't even 30 yet.

[Dee4Three]

But when you are proclaiming yourself all the time as the best player in the world, surely you can guard somebody else besides the worst player on a team, right? And taking off plays entirely to let people waltz into the paint, that effort level consistently? I mean, c'mon.

LeBron is trying to get stats to help his legacy, period. LeBron cares about LeBron, he wants everybody to "Check his stats".

Most overrated player in NBA history.

[Andrew]

Admittedly I was going off on a bit of a tangent there as I was actually referring to LeBron's offense in last year's Finals, not his tendency to guard other stars. In the first halves, he was unstoppable. In the second, he was more sluggish, no longer finishing at the rim, shooting a woeful field goal percentage, and so on. As I said, he might not be pacing himself well, and still relying too much on athleticism, which is coming back to bite him if he's running himself ragged in the first half and is running on empty come clutch time. Just an observation, because it was night and day in the first and second halves throughout the Finals.

[air gordon]

people and or internet. if you're finding the same opinons, go fishing elsewhere lol

judging by the lack of responses.. the issue may be the source shame on me btw

Andrew,
Yeah could be fatigue/his age catching up (even though the nba finals games are spaced out). a younger, uber beast, james was quite unrelenting. even guarding best players at the end of games. maybe GSW does a better job adjusting and they do have the advantage of ability of having multiple guys defend him.

[shadowgrin]

Triple-doubles have also become the standard for measuring all-around play now.

That's been the case even in the past though.
Magic, Bird, Grant Hill, Jason Kidd, all can drop a tripdub any given night and were considered all-around players despite the lack of defense or shooting range.

[Andrew]

That's fair. It also feels like they're being treated as a definitive mark of greatness, though. Are triple-doubles more common because today's players are better, or has the game changed in a way that makes them more commonplace? Furthermore, with the emphasis on them as markers of skill and greatness, are players chasing them more actively?

I feel it's a mix of the latter two. That's not to say we don't have great players in the league right now, but if Nikola Jokic is getting triple-doubles easier than LeBron used to over a decade ago, I think it's fair to say the game facilitates it a little more now. Not that Jokic isn't a fine player, but he isn't LeBron, then or now.