A decision to sacrifice the season; lurching toward the worst record in history

http://www.si.com/vault/1998/01/26/2380 ... ba-history

whether they are only the worst team in the league(uncontested) or in history (to be determined), are not even amusing in their incompetence. However outmanned they may be(struggling rookies, [D-League] veterans and a couple of bonafide roleplayers dominate the roster these days), they do not bumble or otherwise offer comic relief; they maintain, if only in spurts,the pretense of professionalism and are all the more pathetic for that. But the really uncomfortable part of the spectating experience, which is not shared by all that many (at week's end the team's average home attendance, 11,658, was the third lowes tin the NBA), was witnessing the players' growing resentment over their part in this little plan--this "strategy," as they call it.

that the bravest thing to do was to not attempt to field a patchwork team that might, if all went well, return to .500, but instead to make room under the salary cap and acquire draft picks that would enable the team to move back among the elite.

This," says coach emeritus Doug Moe, "is an untalented team. They've got guys[starting] who should be playing short minutes. They're support players."

But Moe, though he's no longer with [the team], defends the strategy. "What did they wash out? This team wasn't going to be much [...]"

An [.033] team, though? "Let me stress, and I cannot stress this enough," says [the GM], "that we never, never thought it would be this bad. We knew it would be a rough year. We knew we had to get worse to get better, to rid ourselves of some contracts. We knew we'd have a lot of young players. We knew we wouldn't have the talent, but we never figured on [one win]."

Still, he is not apologetic. [The GM] says, "I've seen teams try to get by, and it doesn't work. We maybe could have made different moves, have seven wins, and nobody would be talking about us,but we'd still be 25 games out. We're trying to build a championship team, not have a mediocre bunch of veterans."

Note: Management was fired and Dan Issel subsequently gave all their cap space to Tariq Abdul-Wahad, Nick Van Exel, Antonio McDyess and Raef LaFrentz to win 35 games before getting fired for yelling at and insulting fans and the team needed another house cleaning with two epic deals in 2002-03 before returning to the playoffs after big FA luck and one of the best drafts in history.

Companion piece: Perfectly Awful: The 1972-73 Sixers weren't just bad--they were horrid.

If God is in the details, then the Philadelphia 76ers began their disastrous 1972-73 season with an atheist, the blustery Roy Rubin, as their coach. Hired in June '72 after 11 successful years at Division I Long Island University, Rubin came to training camp unfamiliar with the NBA and unacquainted with many players in the league, including some of his own. "It was a joke, like letting a teenager run a big corporation," says Fred Carter, the team's leading scorer (20.0 points per game) and now an analyst for ESPN. "We had Hal Greer [a Hall of Fame guard] on that team, and Rubin had no idea who he was. After we went 4-4 in the preseason, Rubin said, 'I don't think Boston will be so tough.' We just looked at each other and laughed."

Only four years after the 1972-73 debacle, the 76ers were playing in the NBA Finals.

There is a difference in sacrificing a decade and a season. And times are different, we have a whole new ball game now days. It takes longer to develop rookies let alone finding a good one or 3 if you intend to contend sooner than later. There's no guarantee your gem is going to stay around until you build a contender. Look at Love, LBJ, KG, etc.

Now you're literally unhinged from reality. Back then rookies could leave a team after three seasons as UFAs. That's why Denver dealt McDyess to Phoenix in the first place because prior management didn't believe it could sign him since the team was mediocre. (Nor did Issel probably since he denied the Suns players access to and lied to McDyess that they refused to show up to get him to resign.) That's why Joe Smith, Jerry Stackhouse, Stephon Marbury, were all dealt within two years, etc. Now NBA teams get five seasons before they face losing a player.

The fate of Minnesota as a franchise literally rested on KG resigning before the summer of 1998. When he turned down $100 million at age 21 in the summer of 1997 it was basically a crisis for the NBA. (He later signed for $125 million just before 1997-98 kicked off, the largest contract in sports history at the time.)

Your examples are terrible, Love, LeBron and KG all resigned with the teams that drafted them, and Love's the only one who didn't multiple times because the team traded him before he could.

I have no idea where you get the idea that it takes longer to develop rookies or finding good ones now compared to 10+ years ago.

There is a difference in sacrificing a decade and a season.

Yeah, it took Denver a decade between playoff trips because they twice threw band-aids on to keep the team at 35 win quality instead of truly bottoming out and rebuilding.

Last edited by benji on Sun Dec 27, 2015 4:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

laphonso ellis. he was awesome until injury

I think he had a bundle of injuries didn't he? Coming back from one just to hit another and another. It killed his offensive game.

Lionel Simmons another forward from that era who looked quite good that got derailed by injuries.

It's ok to throw in a towel with an aging 35 wins team. It's different when you don't even try with young guys you drafted. When you are outdoing your ancestor tanking buddies, you might want to think about how much of collateral damage you can handle and absorb, until enough becomes enough.

What "collateral damage" could there possibly be?

Like 1-30, regime change led by league that had enough, etc.

I still think that bottoming out is a reasonable strategy, more sensible that overpaying for mediocrity (or to just win 35 games). There comes a time when it's fair enough to scrap everything and start over. I think the main problems with the way the 76ers have gone about it are questionable selections (multiple players who play the same position, including one who's yet to suit up for them), a lack of any affordable veterans who can mentor the young guys, and seemingly not knowing what Step 2 is going to be.

laphonso ellis. he was awesome until injury

I remember this making quite a few highlight reels and NBA VHS tapes in the 90s:

phpBB [video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUsnIyJuz5E

Like 1-30, regime change led by league that had enough, etc.

So what you're suggesting is that the collateral damage will be Colangelo, at the urging of the NBA, wrecking the Sixers rebuilding project to stick them into the mid-lottery for a decade only at higher payrolls?

I think the main problems with the way the 76ers have gone about it are questionable selections (multiple players who play the same position, including one who's yet to suit up for them), a lack of any affordable veterans who can mentor the young guys, and seemingly not knowing what Step 2 is going to be.

Except none of these are actual problems or should be things anyone else cares about. Everyone keeps whining about veterans, but who should they sign and for what?

You call them questionable selections, when they've grabbed the consensus top prospect on the board when they were drafting every single time. And when a team is garbage the goal should be to acquire the top talents and trade down the line to realign it.

And Step 2 is the same as Step 1, accumulate talent.

The only problem has been that agents and other owners are pissed off that the Sixers are being smarter than most are in not throwing away money on a clear no-hope situation. Nobody of consequence wants to sign with the Sixers (or almost any team) until they have players of consequence in place. Just ask the Bulls, a franchise with a rich history, the "second city", piles of cash and minutes, etc. about their big free agent hauls of Ron Mercer, Brent Barry and Eddie Robinson.

Even when it was a playoff team with a majorly popular former #1 pick and decent young players its big free agent haul was Carlos Boozer, Kyle Korver and Ronnie Brewer. (Okay, and Brian Scalabrine.)

How are none of those problem? Let's completely ignore status quo and call Philadelphia a happy lala land.

Step 2 is actual attempt to win games which they acknowledged that at some point they have to do. But here you go off on defending a team that hasn't tried to win for years but to save $ while doing whatever you 'trust the process' guys think are working with no clear ends in sight. Yet you have audacity to claim hinkieology > critiques. Why do we even have 30 teams then when 20 of them should be doing what 76ers are doing? Gut out, sign nobody, trade for picks, until jackpot hits, regardless how long the process is. You want that? It only takes one bad leak to turn buyers away from buying units from your entire apartment complex. It's everyone's problem. Last thing you want is to spread it out to 20 location of leaks.

Please, for once in this conversation state what you would have liked to see the Sixers to have done since May 2013. And/or to do now or differently.

Thanks for contributing to discussion instead of ceaselessly and irrationally whining.

Whining? How about endlessly requesting irrational what-if scenarios that means nothing.

Fine, which way do you want me to swing? Corymach, Stephen King, or perhaps William Shakespheare?





Problem is you acting like Hinkieology is perfect and normal while pretending everyone else are morons for being critics.

Problem is you acting like Hinkieology is perfect and normal while pretending everyone else are morons for being critics.

I've never done this, sorry. I've merely pointed out that it's: 1. Far from new or some cult. 2. Far better than the alternative.

Whining? How about endlessly requesting irrational what-if scenarios that means nothing.

You're constantly harping how drafting top level talent talent and not wasting cap money doesn't work in rebuilding teams because the Sixers are still bad (after just two years) but offer nothing on what would work to rebuild a team. A discussion literally cannot be had with you because you're constantly just throwing your toys out the pram rather than offering anything substantive.

Not true. You are just making things up now. I clearly said I was a fan of Hinkie in early days.

It's his early days still breh. This is the third season he's overseen.

Third.

And he's changed nothing, his "early years" was when he was doing all the things you supposedly hate like dumping higher paid but not that great of players, accumulating draft picks to get talent rather than contracts, etc.

But it's not just only third, but third with series of skeptical moves and result with no imminent signs to shift the gear.


You obviously understand I acknowledge some moves in hindsight were good ones. Many teams become attached to talents they draft. Clearly Hinkie doesn't belong to that category. He's willing to dump them cold hearted. Problem is it negates team's reputation and morale if done excessively especially within short time frame. It's not as if they were mortgaging their future nor vastly losing player's value to take bit of wait and see approach. As you said, you get to keep them for 4-5 seasons at cheap cost. Rookie contracts are gold. However you repeatedly pawn them for picks and replace their minutes with D-Leaguers, and you end up being a 1-30 team while fans/league are pissed off. All trust lost. As much as they're in good position financially, it helped new owners financially too (you see, 76ers players were pissed about Thomas Robinson deal). This is business profit from losing intentionally which only the management were the winners and fans/players/league were the losers.

You seem to be upset about rightful reaction to their shady actions.

There's nothing shady about their actions other than the Jrue thing.

Hinkie has dealt one of his first rounders, MCW. I admit that was a weird trade in that he didn't get more back (though he eventually wound up with Kendall Marshall anyway), but I imagine that says more about MCW's market value than it does about Hinkie. That deal looks worse from the Bucks perspective than it does from the Sixers to me. Especially if they drop a big extension on MCW.

You were bashing second rounders not too long ago, and the only one of those they dumped would probably be headed out of the league had the Rockets not dropped $10 million on him.

Here's every single one of Hinkie's trades:

Traded Glen Rice to the Washington Wizards for Arsalan Kazemi and Nate Wolters.
Traded Ricky Ledo to the Dallas Mavericks for a 2014 2nd round draft pick.

Draft day deals, might have been picks for other teams from the start but whatever. I'll grade them less than even.

Traded Jrue Holiday and Pierre Jackson to the New Orleans Pelicans for Nerlens Noel and a 2014 1st round draft pick.

Great trade, moved an overpaid chronically injured PG for a potential neo-Camby and a future first.

Traded a future draft pick to the Houston Rockets for Furkan Aldemir, Royce White and cash.

Traded a 2014 2nd round draft pick to the Memphis Grizzlies for Tony Wroten

Pair of good deals to add some potential assets that didn't work out.

Traded Spencer Hawes to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Earl Clark, Henry Sims, a 2014 2nd round draft pick and a 2014 2nd round draft pick.

Sims is a nice player, but he left on his own for Phoenix. And now he's superfluous with all the bigs.

Traded Lavoy Allen and Evan Turner to the Indiana Pacers for Danny Granger and a 2015 2nd round draft pick.

Again, Allen would be way down the rotation. Turner's stock was well known to be disastrous. Plus he nearly got the Heat another title!

Traded a future 2nd round draft pick to the Los Angeles Clippers for Byron Mullens.

As part of a 3-team trade, the Philadelphia 76ers traded a 2014 2nd round draft pick to the Washington Wizards; the Denver Nuggets traded a 2016 2nd round draft pick to the Philadelphia 76ers; the Denver Nuggets traded Andre Miller to the Washington Wizards; the Washington Wizards traded Jan Vesely to the Denver Nuggets; and the Washington Wizards traded Eric Maynor and a 2015 2nd round draft pick to the Philadelphia 76ers.

Shuffled picks around, not a pair of big deal.

Traded Elfrid Payton to the Orlando Magic for Dario Saric and a 2017 1st round draft pick.

I love Payton and did before the draft, but grabbing a great player like Saric plus a first rounder from what had been a garbage team is a nice coup.

Traded Nemanja Dangubic to the San Antonio Spurs for Jordan McRae.

Neat.

As part of a 3-team trade, the Philadelphia 76ers traded Thaddeus Young to the Minnesota Timberwolves; the Cleveland Cavaliers traded Anthony Bennett, Andrew Wiggins and a trade exception to the Minnesota Timberwolves; the Cleveland Cavaliers traded a 2015 1st round draft pick to the Philadelphia 76ers; the Minnesota Timberwolves traded Kevin Love to the Cleveland Cavaliers; and the Minnesota Timberwolves traded Luc Mbah a Moute and Alexey Shved to the Philadelphia 76ers.

Snagged a first rounder in order to move the last leftover player from the Collins era.

Traded a trade exception and a 2015 2nd round draft pick to the Oklahoma City Thunder for Hasheem Thabeet and cash.

Get some $$$ yo.

Traded a 2015 2nd round draft pick to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Keith Bogans and a 2018 2nd round draft pick.

Shuffle some picks.

Traded Casper Ware to the Brooklyn Nets for Marquis Teague and a 2019 2nd round draft pick.

PICCCKKKSSS

Traded Arnett Moultrie to the New York Knicks for Travis Outlaw and a 2019 2nd round draft pick.

Will take contracts for picks.

Traded Brandon Davies to the Brooklyn Nets for Jorge Gutierrez, Andrei Kirilenko and a 2020 2nd round draft pick.

You got contracts? YOU GOT PICKKKSSSSS?!?

As part of a 3-team trade, the Philadelphia 76ers traded Alexey Shved to the Houston Rockets; the Houston Rockets traded Troy Daniels, cash, a 2015 2nd round draft pick and a 2016 2nd round draft pick to the Minnesota Timberwolves; the Houston Rockets traded Sergei Lishouk and a 2015 2nd round draft pick to the Philadelphia 76ers; the Minnesota Timberwolves traded Corey Brewer to the Houston Rockets; and the Minnesota Timberwolves traded Ronny Turiaf to the Philadelphia 76ers.

PICKKKKSSSS

Traded Sergei Lishouk to the Los Angeles Clippers for Cenk Akyol and Jared Cunningham.

He probably thought he was getting the guy from The Young Turks.

As part of a 3-team trade, the Philadelphia 76ers traded Michael Carter-Williams to the Milwaukee Bucks; the Milwaukee Bucks traded Brandon Knight and Kendall Marshall to the Phoenix Suns; the Phoenix Suns traded Tyler Ennis and Miles Plumlee to the Milwaukee Bucks; and the Phoenix Suns traded a 2015 1st round draft pick to the Philadelphia 76ers. (PHI 1st round pick received from PHO is LAL's and is top-5 protected in 2015 and top-3 protected in 2016 & 2017.)

Get dat Lakers pick yo.

Traded K.J. McDaniels to the Houston Rockets for Isaiah Canaan and a 2015 2nd round draft pick.

Canaan's been better, another second rounder.

Traded Cenk Akyol and cash to the Denver Nuggets for Chukwudiebere Maduabum, JaVale McGee and a 2015 1st round draft pick.

Found out he wasn't the guy from The Young Turks, so he gets the best name in league history and snags another first rounder.

Traded a 2015 2nd round draft pick (Willy Hernangomez was later selected) to the New York Knicks for a 2020 2nd round draft pick and a 2021 2nd round draft pick.

PICKSKSKSKSKSKSKS

Traded Arturas Gudaitis, Luka Mitrovic and to the Sacramento Kings for Carl Landry, Nik Stauskas, Jason Thompson and a 2018 1st round draft pick. Also rights to swap 1st rounder in 2016 or 2017

Traded Jason Thompson to the Golden State Warriors for Gerald Wallace. (PHI also gets rights to swap MIA or OKC 2016 1st Rd Pick for GSW 2016 1st Rd pick)

Give us your cold/hungy/tired contracts WITH PICKSSSSSS.

Landry decent veteran to keep around or flip for pickssssssss. Different kind of big from the others they've churned through in that he's an offensive monster. Stauskas a former shouldn't have been in the lottery guy to take a chance on.

I don't see anything too bad here, how many of these guys are actually still playing and contributing to teams outside of MCW? Like, two?

I imagine Thomas Robinson was let go more for that frontline being a glut than money, the Nuggets are only paying him $2 million over two years unguaranteed fully. That's a Hinkie type contract.

Piiiicksss, $$$, Hinkie deals. Exactly

That's easy part of the rebuilding. getting rid of everything and piling up the potentials. Problem AGAIN is uncertainty going into the future after 'third'. Even in the best case scenario they are 3-5 years away from being decent. That still requires a lot of luck in the draft since no high profile FA wants to go there due to bad rep that's built up over the years(or trade for proven vets which you hate). And probably needs to find keepers. Who are the keepers anyway? OAK already being mentioned as possible trade asset. So that leaves Embiid, Saric, who hasn't played a minute in this league.

Look. We should have no problem that Hinkie's good at one thing, turning anything into picks and $$$. What you are claiming is it's everything. It's not. I will say it's being the best at worst strategy. Say, your team got the best at mid range game and bad at everything else, would your team win?


At the end of the day, the discussion is null since we will likely to never find out end game of Hinkieology. Perhaps he's done good but someone else will likely take the credit and prize. Joke's on him.

I'd still love to hear your superior rebuilding strategy to accumulating young assets.

How about you concede accumulating young assets is one part of the rebuilding process so we can save bandwidth on writing fictions.

How about making right picks, gathering keepers and developing them in a direction so you don't need to turn them into picks again, building right cultures within the organization, build a nice rep for easier recruitment, keep franchise in high morale, have players focused, not go 1-30 and blame everyone else for pointing fingers, not push league's button that results in intervention, not make historical records as a laughingstock.



Perhaps avoid a situation where Ish Smith can be considered a franchise saviour that excites D'Antoni and Brett.

So you have no alternative. And will claim you're saving bandwidth by avoiding offering one to discuss to throw yet another ill-informed tantrum.

How about making right picks, gathering keepers and developing them in a direction

Like drafting every top player available at their picks? the process

I gave you an alternative just above, just not the fantasy one but a plausible one that just didn't happen.

How about making right picks, gathering keepers and developing them in a direction

Like drafting every top player available at their picks? the process

A guy that's been traded? Or that guy who hasn't played a single minute yet and goes around threatening your employee while making shitty tweets online? Or the guy that throws punches at the bar and gets a speed ticket but it's ok because we got money yo? Or the guy with stellar haircut?

You were against hiring a vet for mentoring purpose. But the result suggests kids could have used a good mentor/leadership/role model rather than letting them loose and act up like wild horses on steroids. The Wolves didn't bring in KG because they're stupid and rich.

Piling up picks is one thing, drafting right is another. But also protecting your youngs so they develop right is a nice thing too. As I said, Hinkie's best at the worst strategy. What good is Drummond's ability to get to line when he has no ability to turn them into points?


So it's your turn now. What good has Hinkie done outside of collecting picks? It's not like his ponzi scheme had high internal approval rating either. Minority owners weren't happy, neither were coaches and staff who had expanded role of kindergarten teachers, not even local fans and players. Only happy person about Hinkieology was the new owner, all the way to the bank. Answer it.

I gave you an alternative just above, just not the fantasy one but a plausible one that just didn't happen.

no you didn't lol

Just try and handle two simple hypotheticals here.

It's May 2013 and you've taken over the Sixers, what do you do different?

It's May 2015 and you've taken over the Sixers, what are your moves for the next year?