Official Toronto Raptors Thread.

[RapsPlayoffs]

unfair reffing. billups walked and got a foul called. anthony parker saved the ball didnt step out of bounds but got called out of bounds. morris peterson got rid of the ball before stepping out of bounds but it was called out of bounds. chauncey billups flops the ford foul and the league says they might start take action for flopping yet they call foul on ford.
and not only was the reffing biased but keep in mind this was an away game against a way better team for the raptors

[Cable]

The streak was stopped, but I don't see it as a set-back. Loosing by single digits to one of the best teams in the league doesn't mean your team sucks. The Raptors' playoffs hopes are alive and well.

[Its_asdf]

I'm back to bump this baby back up, bitches.

Raptors against Chicago today, although I can only watch Raptors games on TSN or Sportsnet.

There's something about Chicago that makes us constantly lose to them. Ever since the Raps traded for Jalen Rose, Toronto has been kicked in the rear by them. Hopefully, Toronto gets on track after that loss to Detriot and also break that Bulls curse that the Raptors have been experiencing.

[MC Snowy]

The streak is over!!!!!

That is all.

[cyanide]

I watched the second half of the Chicago game (after Bargs lights up with 17 first half points) and man, they were so good up until the last 7 minutes of the game, but they really held on. They're a different team nowadays and they're playing tough.

I think Toronto has the best point guard combo in the league with Ford and Calderon. Those two guys have been excellent the past several games.

[Raps13]

I watched the second half of the Chicago game (after Bargs lights up with 17 first half points) and man, they were so good up until the last 7 minutes of the game, but they really held on. They're a different team nowadays and they're playing tough.

I think Toronto has the best point guard combo in the league with Ford and Calderon. Those two guys have been excellent the past several games.

Agreed! I mean how many teams can say that there starting and backup PG combine for close to 30ppg and 20apg. Not very many!

Tonight's game is huge though. We have to keep our foot on the pedal and plow through the nets. The Nets are injuried, lack talent, and also playing in the second game of a back-to-back. Contain Carter tonight and the game is ours. Heres to a big whooping of NJ

[Cable]

Yeah, beating the Nets would really help. I'll bet Calderon could start on some teams. Funny how last year we couldn't find one solid point-guard; now we have two.

[ThaLiveKing]

The media needs to lay off Carter!! It's like whenever Carter comes here he does shit on purpose just to give them something to talk about lol. Bosh? MVP, you really think Carter is that much of an asshole to say that. If you watched the post-game, the media is trying to rub it in Carter's face because Raptors are doing great and his team is not!!! New Jersey can still win the Atlantic when they get the rest of their guys back, I mean New York can win the Atlantic. It's still wide open, and Raps ain't going undefeated the rest of the season.

I wonder if the Raptors organization took these kind of steps earlier in the Raptors exsistence, Raptors could've already been where they are today!! But they put all the blame on Carter when it was really the Raptors management who fucked the team up and made Carter what he is today. I think Fans need to lay off a lil bit, I understand why they are mad, your just motivating Carter. I mean he broke y'all hearts with that 3 point dagger last year and he killed up your team earlier this season, NJ will bounce back!!!

Just had to get that off my chest!! I'm am unbiased Raptors fan

[cyanide]

If you saw the game, Carter did a classless act when the fans were saying "MVP! MVP!" to Bosh. Carter made a face, and mouthed, "MVP? No way, no way." How many players in the league would do something disrespectful like that?

[ThaLiveKing]

I'm sure there's a few. . .Carter did say that "He was just pullin Bosh's chain" But I did sense a little jealousy. Cause all what Carter did for this franchise has been over looked. And part of that blame is on the franchise, cause they're the one who fucked up the team when Carter was here!! But I honestly don't remember them ever chanting MVP for Vince when he took them to their 1st playoff run. Those guys got their shit together after Vince left and I guess Vince wishes they would have done that when he was here. . .that's why I think he's jealous. Those MVP chants were just to rub it in Vince's face

[cyanide]

I don't know if it was just to rub it in Vince's face, but I'm sure that was part of it. I think I read there were MVP chants in other games, so it wasn't just with Vince. Here's a video of Vince's reaction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz0kGWU1U_U

Carter was appreciated in Toronto, but when he stopped playing, I think that's what screwed them over the most. I partly blame management too, but Vince's value was at an all time low at that point when he stopped playing that all Toronto got was a sack of potatoes in return.

[Cable]

Yup, Cy's right. Carter was doing okay with everyone until he started leaving games with broken nails and not trying or playing team ball anymore. Management was part of it, but mostly he screwed himself.

[ThaLiveKing]

^^ What team? Raptors were starting to become a laughin stock of the NBA, How you go from contender to nothing in just a few months?

[ThaLiveKing]

I don't know if it was just to rub it in Vince's face, but I'm sure that was part of it. I think I read there were MVP chants in other games, so it wasn't just with Vince. Here's a video of Vince's reaction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz0kGWU1U_U

Carter was appreciated in Toronto, but when he stopped playing, I think that's what screwed them over the most. I partly blame management too, but Vince's value was at an all time low at that point when he stopped playing that all Toronto got was a sack of potatoes in return.

Yeah there was only one other game where I remember, last week i think it was!! All Raptor fans did was just motivate Vince now, I expect NJ to make a serious run at Toronto now

[Its_asdf]

Vince Carter lobbied for the signings of Alvin Williams, Antonio Davis and Jerome Williams. Although I admit they were important pieces, they were drastically overpaid and could've been replaced since Toronto just recently made a huge playoff run and everyone considered them to be one of the top teams in the east. Those signings were in order to keep Carter happy so he would re-sign with Toronto, but could also potentially screw with the Raptors financial situation for years (and it did).

Carter also lobbied for the signing of Hakeem, which also dug the Raps into a deeper financial rut.

Injuries are probably to blame for the Raptors inability of making the playoffs after 2002-2004, but Carter simply lost motivation. In fact, I don't think he really had that much to begin with. Sure he's an amazingly talented player, and I don't want to sound like everyone else that's bagged on Carter but the guy simply can't lead a team. His demeanor and body language is so piss poor it pisses me off just thinking about it, which brings me to the topic at hand.

I don't think Carter meant the "MVP" thing too seriously. Carter's just one of those players that like to giggle and laugh it up like a little girl when he's losing, that's all. The guy just can't seem to muster up any motivation when his back is against the ropes, he just lacks that extra intensity level that guys like Kobe and Wade have that simply want to will their team to win.

With that being said, I'm not bitter about Carter, but rather the way that he handelled his departure and how poor his on-court demeanor is.

Edit: the Toronto media also blows things out of proportion as well. They seem to find a way to nit-pick and everything Carter does ever since he left. Chuck and Leo also are a bunch of hypocritical turds. They rode his jock to no end during his days here.

[Raps13]

^^ What team? Raptors were starting to become a laughin stock of the NBA, How you go from contender to nothing in just a few months?

By the star player giving up.

Carter gave up on the team, the management, the city that so widely accepted him and embraced him. Carter is the man to blame for the demise of the past generation Raptor team. When Carter stopped playing at 100% and sulked around all offseason without a word to management about his plans he masterminded arguably the quickest killing of an up and coming team. Management was forced to weaken the team because Carter was out for blood and wanted to kill the Raptors. He waited until his value was at it's least to demand a trade. Carter is the single reason why this team imploded.

Now don't get me wrong, if Carter wanted out thats one thing, but its the way he did it that has angered not only me, but almost every single Raptor fan to this day. If Carter had approached Grunwald when at the beginning of that offseason and quietly asked for a trade, thats fair. If Carter kept playing at a high level during the season and asked for a trade, fair enough. But to sit on your ass and openly admit you want out from a team that is not only paying you $15M a season but put you on the map. Thats where the line is drawn

[ThaLiveKing]

Carter would have been Carter no matter where he went, He was a high flyer in College and wouldve been one in the NBA regardless of where he went. Yeah he gave up,but like I said, if the team is going nowhere and they expect so much of you, and the media keeps hounding you, how much you think a player can take? The management didn't know what they were doing point blank and I guess Carter got tired of it!! How many of you quit jobs because of your manager? Regardless of how much you got paid? It wasn't entirely about the money, the team went from contender to shit in a matter of months and that's not Vince Carter's fault, so to put that on him is rediculous!! It's like every year the Raptors were rebuilding, who could respect a franchise like that?

[Raps13]

Yeah he gave up,but like I said, if the team is going nowhere

The team was going no where because Carter gave up. I cant put it any more simple than that. The star of your team is supposed to lead and he did no such thing other than cry to his mommy like a 2 year old.

they expect so much of you, and the media keeps hounding you, how much you think a player can take?

He's getting paid $15M/Year, I think he can cope.

The management didn't know what they were doing point blank and I guess Carter got tired of it!!

Management did not know what to do because of Carter. With the speculation that Carter would request a trade it handcuffed the organization. Carter caused the demise of the past generation

How many of you quit jobs because of your manager? Regardless of how much you got paid?

If I'm getting paid $15M/Year, I think i'll find a way to be happy.

It wasn't entirely about the money, the team went from contender to shit in a matter of months and that's not Vince Carter's fault,

Yes it is his fault. Carter got himself surronded with the players he wanted. Alvin, AD, JYD etc. But at the end of the day this team relied on Carter and if Carter wasnt producing, the Raptors were not going to win. Thats pretty simple

It's like every year the Raptors were rebuilding, who could respect a franchise like that?

Myself. And almost every other Raptor fan here and elsewhere. A true basketball fan knew the team was rebuilding after Carter left and growing pains were expected. The team is now imo, almost there only missing a couple pieces from being serious contenders.

This team is much much better off without Carter. Its difficult to follow but basically, by trading Carter the Raptors got: A resigned Chris Bosh, Anthony Parker, Jose Calderon, Joey Graham, Jorge Garbojosa, CAP SPACE!, Fred Jones, Rasho, and arguably Andrea Baragnani who may very well turn out to be better than Carter himself

[ThaLiveKing]

Like I said Carter wanted to leave because the management broke up a contending team to rebuild AGAIN. The plyers Carter wanted were quality NBA players!! Carter was here for 7 years and they were rebuilding for like 5 years!! So what if he gets paid 15 million, a player with Carters ability deserves 15 Million, by the time we drafted Chris Bosh Carter was already on his way out, imagin he he would have stayed as the Old Carter before he was stressed out by the bullshit management and media, we would already be a contender. The only reason we are a contender now is because we have a GM with a lot of experience, something we didn't have when Carter was here, so you can talk all u want about how the team is better without Carter, it all came down to the management. Once Keon left, JYD got traded and the rest, the Raps became shit once again!!!

Wonder when players left Toronto they would BLAST the organization on their ignorance and knowing nothing about Basketball

[Raps13]

Do I really need to do this again?

Like I said Carter wanted to leave because the management broke up a contending team to rebuild AGAIN.

They broke up after Carter was traded

The plyers Carter wanted were quality NBA players!!

Obviously they are good players, they are in the NBA after all but they were not worth the money management gave them, and only gave them after Carter begged management too

Carter was here for 7 years and they were rebuilding for like 5 years!!

VC was drafted in 1998

Raptors Finishes post-VC draft
1998: 23-27 10th in East
1999: 45-37 6th in East
2000: 47-35 5th in East

Carter injuries mysteriously start happening now.....

2001: 42-40 7th in the East (We win something like 13 in a row without VC to make the playoffs)
2002: 24-58 14th in East
2003: 33-49 10th in East (Carter traded mid-season

VC Games played
1998:50
1999: 82
2000:75
2001:60
2002:43
2003:73 (only 20 for Toronto)

Its easy to see this team depended on Carter. When Carter played with determination the team won. But when Carter didnt play or didnt play with passion (As in the trade year when he was only averaging 16ppg through 20 games) the Raptors lost

So what if he gets paid 15 million, a player with Carters ability deserves 15 Million,

Ok, fair enough, but only when he shows up to play and give 100% every night, something Carter himself admitted he did not do.

by the time we drafted Chris Bosh Carter was already on his way out,

No. This is when VC decided he wasnt going to try anymore

imagin he he would have stayed as the Old Carter before he was stressed out by the bullshit management and media,

How can you be stressed when management gave you everything you every asked for and more. VC asked to have JYD,Alvin,AD all resigned he got it. He asked for a real C to be brought in. The Management brought in Hakeem (Hakeem may have failed but management tried their best)

The only reason we are a contender now is because we have a GM with a lot of experience,

Experience he would not be able to use if we were still tied down by the contracts of players like AD,Rose and yes Carter

Once Keon left, JYD got traded and the rest, the Raps became shit once again!!!

These guys were traded to either in NYD case try and win again, at the demands of VC. Or like when we traded Rose, to open up cap space for the future

Wonder when players left Toronto they would BLAST the organization on their ignorance and knowing nothing about Basketball

Look at the people who blasted it, VC and Tmac in particular. These are guys who admitted (sometimes in the same interview) that they did not try their best on the court and the fact that they try and bad mouth an organization is laughable. We are talking about players who have no passion and have done little in terms of team success. The fact they try and bad mouth and organization and admit they dont try is dumb, the only people who look bad in that situation is the player who doesnt try.

[Abctest123]

Good post, not to nit-pick at stuff but:

2001: 42-40 7th in the East (We win something like 13 in a row with VC to make the playoffs)

That final run they made that year was without Carter. The team WILLED itself into the finals, lead by outstanding efforts by Alvin Williams and Antonio Davis. They won like 12 of the final 13, or 11 of 12, or 13 of the last 14, absolutely nuts.

[Raps13]

Good post, not to nit-pick at stuff but:

2001: 42-40 7th in the East (We win something like 13 in a row with VC to make the playoffs)

That final run they made that year was without Carter. The team WILLED itself into the finals, lead by outstanding efforts by Alvin Williams and Antonio Davis. They won like 12 of the final 13, or 11 of 12, or 13 of the last 14, absolutely nuts.

yes it was. that was my fault on the typo, i meant to say without

[Its_asdf]

Well said Raps13, I remember I was going to make a similar reply to the thread myself.

But there's a point I want to emphasize a little more on.

That final run they made that year was without Carter. The team WILLED itself into the finals, lead by outstanding efforts by Alvin Williams and Antonio Davis. They won like 12 of the final 13, or 11 of 12, or 13 of the last 14, absolutely nuts.

That was one of my most happiest moments of being a Raptors fan. That run was absolutely insane, but it also shows you that the management did give Carter the right pieces to play with, it's just that injuries to key players have always slowed down the Raptors. So I think ThaLiveKing really hasn't read up on Raptors history that much when he keeps pointing out that the Raptors never got Carter what he wanted or the right teammates to play with.

[ThaLiveKing]

I know about all the players Carter wanted, but then they all left and Carter was mad that they broke up the team, he even said that, he had that look like, do these guys even know what they are doing. That's the point i'm talking about, We had something good and it all slipped away

RAPS21 they broke up the team after they made that run in the playoffs. After Carter was traded we got rid of Rose and someone else can't remember, but I remember them not resigning a bunch of player that made our team good!! I don't know what happened back in 1998-2000 cause I was living in the states at the time and they never played no Raptors games there

We had Chris Childs, Alvin at the guard, that team was stacked, But all the veterans wanted to leave and play for a contender, that's why McGrady said he left because most of those guys were gonna leave anyways, so he didn't want to be the sole dependent on that team to score. . he thought Vince wasn't gonna resign either. I'm being random cause I'm tired right now

[Raps13]

I know about all the players Carter wanted, but then they all left

They were either traded with Carters approval or after Carter was traded. This point your trying to make is invalid

and Carter was mad that they broke up the team, he even said that,

No. What Carter said was he wanted out because management didnt treat

him right. Wait! Hold up! Is this the same management that that gave Carter everything he ever wanted? I think it was. Sorry Vince was the bad guy

he had that look like, do these guys even know what they are doing.

No he had the look of a quitter

That's the point i'm talking about, We had something good and it all slipped away

Sure Carter is or was blessed with an abundance of talent but when you do not have the passion to go out on the court and play to win, then its not worth it and in no way should be considered "good"

they broke up the team after they made that run in the playoffs.

No they didnt. Carter and the rest of the gang were around the next season and Carter began getting "injured". Management carried Carter through his injuries and gave him all the time in the world to get healthy. Something he claimed he never was.

Up until the time Carter was traded he was included in every personnel decision the Raptors made. If Carter didn't approve, it was very unlikely to go through

After Carter was traded we got rid of Rose and someone else can't remember,

Rose was traded 1.5 years after Carter was dealt. This is not valid to any point your trying to make towards Carter

but I remember them not resigning a bunch of player that made our team good!!

Does a guy like Keon Clark who chose opium over basketball really make your team good?

I don't know what happened back in 1998-2000 cause I was living in the states at the time and they never played no Raptors games there

Allow me to sum it up for you. Management gave Carter what he wanted, Carter tried, Raptors Won.

Now new millennium, Management gave Carter what he wanted, Carter sulked in the corner, Raptors lost

Simple isnt it?

We had Chris Childs, Alvin at the guard, that team was stacked,

As much of an Alvin Williams fan I am, you cannot call Childs and Williams stacked.

But all the veterans wanted to leave and play for a contender, that's why McGrady said he left

No. This is one of the most publicized incidents in Raptors history and if you were a real fan you would know. Tmac left because he was sick of playing in his cousin, VC's, shadow and wanted to prove himself. That is why he left.

because most of those guys were gonna leave anyways,

Stop trying to make this point. Its not valid. The guys Carter wanted were not traded until after Carter was gone OR with Carter's approval which was the case in the JYD/AD-Rose/Marhsall deal

so he didn't want to be the sole dependent on that team to score. .

Which was the reason Carter approved the Rose/Marshall deal

he thought Vince wasn't gonna resign either.

No. We covered this already. Tmac wanted to leave because he wanted out of VC's shadow and to prove himself

I'm being random cause I'm tired right now

Your spinning your wheels. Your making the same points over and over and the majority of which are either invalid or just wrong.


Management was not right in catering to Carter's every wish. They have to put the good of the team over the needs or wants of one player. Something they didn't do but if your going to fault management for making the moves it did involving Carter, there is something wrong there. Carter is the bad guy and deserves everything negative the fans of the Toronto Raptors give him from now til his time comes.