Allen Iverson Thread

[dopeboy]

Nathan Scott.. That's funny.
MikeMan, don't worry.. He's fictional character if you didn't know.

[NovU]

Shadowgrin's really a conversation killer .

U haven't got picked on by benji yet...

[MikeMan™]

Shadowgrin's really a conversation killer .

U haven't got picked on by benji yet...

Is he the same as shadowgrin ?

[shadowgrin]

Hell no. benji's crazy.

Shadowgrin's really a conversation killer .

What do you mean by that?
I thought the point of making threads and posts is too have some discussions amongst ourselves about the topic at hand. I just try to clear some misconceptions to the best of my knowledge and not "kill" the conversation.

U haven't got picked on by benji yet...

I don't know about benji, but as for me - second sentence of my previous statment.

[Spree#8]

Try explaining what happened to him in Detroit? If AI is willing to do anything to get a ring, then why wasn't he able to adapt coming off the bench? Coming off the bench means less stress and fatigue.

Probably because he was playing 17 minutes off the bench. I think he wouldn't grumble that much if he played 30 minutes off the bench. 17 is way too little for a player like Iverson.

And being a role player means he won't have to create his own shot, just trust his teammates to get him the ball.

He accepted it. He probably didn't like it, but still was doing it. Both FGA and USG% were lowest in his career in the Pistons.

[MikeMan™]

Alas ! someone is supporting me . . .

[Its_asdf]

Mr. shadowgrin was talking about adapting, not accepting. There's a difference.

[shadowgrin]

Alas ! someone is supporting me . . .




(what's with the "Mr", asdf? )

[Oznogrd]

Probably because he was playing 17 minutes off the bench. I think he wouldn't grumble that much if he played 30 minutes off the bench. 17 is way too little for a player like Iverson.
He accepted it. He probably didn't like it, but still was doing it. Both FGA and USG% were lowest in his career in the Pistons.

Do you guys even watch or play the game of basketball? Iverson was only getting 17 minutes per game because he was playing badly and not helping the team whatsoever. You dont leave a guy in who's sapping the life out of your team. Don't get me wrong: he's one of my favorite players but a team system isnt what he plays. He plays everything is based around me and that's not changing: whether it means a ring or not. Accepting his role would be actually changing his style to fit a team: not doing the same old bad habits that are catching up to him now that he's aging.

[Its_asdf]

Alas ! someone is supporting me . . .




(what's with the "Mr", asdf? )

Just wanted to be polite, that's all. Haven't been on here for a while....

[Maaarf]

it all went downhill after he cut his braids, he should've never cut his braids

[benji]

Is he the same as shadowgrin ?

This guys sig is ten times longer than most of his posts and even worse than they are.

[Oskar]

Probably because he was playing 17 minutes off the bench. I think he wouldn't grumble that much if he played 30 minutes off the bench. 17 is way too little for a player like Iverson.
He accepted it. He probably didn't like it, but still was doing it. Both FGA and USG% were lowest in his career in the Pistons.

Do you guys even watch or play the game of basketball? Iverson was only getting 17 minutes per game because he was playing badly and not helping the team whatsoever. You dont leave a guy in who's sapping the life out of your team. Don't get me wrong: he's one of my favorite players but a team system isnt what he plays. He plays everything is based around me and that's not changing: whether it means a ring or not. Accepting his role would be actually changing his style to fit a team: not doing the same old bad habits that are catching up to him now that he's aging.

Watching basketball ? The Pistons sucked badly this year, not because of Iverson. Everyone played badly, Rasheed, Rip, Tayshaun etc and the coach is one of the worst in the league. People are talking like Iverson played BAD .. What the, his averages were slightly below 20 points if I am right, which is good for almost everyone.

[NovU]

I think DrGonzo has a point. He as a replacement for Billups was a total failure, nothing good at ALL for Detroit. As a leader, he failed. As a mentor/role model for young players, he failed. As 22 mil player, he failed. As a team player, he failed. As a point guard, he failed. As a shooting guard, he failed. As a starter, he failed. As a bench player, he failed. As a positive locker room presence, he failed. Now it's evident, that Denver was better off without AI so was Detroit. It's almost proven that he's a team chemistry killer. Unless he makes an adjustment, he'll fail again.

[Oznogrd]

Rip-18.3 PPG
Sheed-12 PPG
Prince-14.2 PPG
Iverson-17.4 PPG

Alright Point taken: the pistons all around were bad. But you're forgetting. They lost the man who ran their Offense. They lost (to me at least) their main leader. If you dont have a PG to help set you up it's hard to score. I didnt say AI killed the pistons solely: I just said he didnt fit their system they had run for the past few years that had brought them success. Inserting a player with attitude is not the way to..repump up your team. No one wanted to be playing on that team and you could tell. However with 82 games.com showing iverson being in instead of mcdyess with their same 4 players ..their turnover rates went up, their rebounding went down. That's never good.

[Andrew]

He as a replacement for Billups was a total failure, nothing good at ALL for Detroit. As a leader, he failed. As a mentor/role model for young players, he failed. As 22 mil player, he failed. As a team player, he failed. As a point guard, he failed. As a shooting guard, he failed. As a starter, he failed. As a bench player, he failed. As a positive locker room presence, he failed. Now it's evident, that Denver was better off without AI so was Detroit. It's almost proven that he's a team chemistry killer. Unless he makes an adjustment, he'll fail again.

But as an expiring contract, he's a tremendous success. And that could prove to be very good for Detroit moving forward, so while it looks bad now with Billups and the Nuggets in the WCF it could pay off down the road.

[Oskar]

I think DrGonzo has a point. He as a replacement for Billups was a total failure, nothing good at ALL for Detroit. As a leader, he failed. As a mentor/role model for young players, he failed. As 22 mil player, he failed. As a team player, he failed. As a point guard, he failed. As a shooting guard, he failed. As a starter, he failed. As a bench player, he failed. As a positive locker room presence, he failed. Now it's evident, that Denver was better off without AI so was Detroit. It's almost proven that he's a team chemistry killer. Unless he makes an adjustment, he'll fail again.

Oh c'mon for gods sake .. He was never taken in as a leader, he didn't played alright in the beginning, but as the team sucked because Chauncey was gone, not because AI came in, AI still got the blame and was sitting deep on the bench, where he barely got minutes at all. Hence, he said he would retire before doing that again, which is better than just staying there and accepting money coming to you without playing at all. Iverson wanted to play, he would've accepted a bench role if he would've gotten quality minutes.

AI was proven as a chemistry killer ? Oh, once again, stop this b/s ! Nuggets' record in 07-08 was 50-32 with that total failure and in 08-09 they had 4 more wins when they got rid of him while getting a God in return. Wow, thank god they lost AI, he really held them back. Yes, they lost in the first round, to the LA Lakers, the same team they are facing this year in the conference finals. I doubt that the Nuggets manage to beat LA, despite the fact I'm pulling for them.

AI made adjustments, but the Pistons as a team weren't what they were before. As I mentioned earlier, they sucked as a whole and after I read what you said about Detroit being better without AI (and Billups, I guess) .. yeah, seriously.

Despite that, I can't say you're all completely wrong and AI doesn't make mistakes, he makes a lot of them, even too much. Therefore, it's not like he's the worst basketball player in world as many make him out to be, he's a great basketball player with an extraordinary talent, but he's never been lucky enough. I don't know, to benij and people he's probably one of the greatest ever thanks to his statistics, but he hasn't managed to win just yet, but it drives me insane when people label him as a cancer, someone who can't win.. What's that supposed to mean anyway ? Iverson is playing hard night in night out, he has had problems with not going to practice a few times, but seriously, it's natural, a basketball player doesn't go to practice every damn day ? Oh, so he's definitely a cancer, no way he's going to get good money from teams and there's like no chance he's going to win. C'mon, it almost seemed to me as Chauncey left Detroit, the players gave up. Maybe it is because they didn't want him gone, maybe not, I have no idea, but as Chauncey, a superior winner compared to Iverson, was an excellent fit in Detroit, without him, the Pistons didn't have a glove anymore.

No, Iverson wasn't a failure in Detroit. He did exactly what the front office wanted him to do, expire.

[Oznogrd]

Oskar: im not going to disagree completely but I will disagree with them skipping practice being ok. Do you know what happens in a real job if you skip a mandatory day of work? In some places 1 mess up and you're officially unemployed. He is being paid money to be a basketball player professionally and follow team rules. That includes showing up to practice. Hes not going to win until he learns to be a roleplayer and not the star because after this many years of beating in the league? He's not the same guy he used to be. He can still adjust and win if he drops the attitude. Alot of mental and physical preparation go into being an athlete. Pure ability only gets you so far. Practice is the preparation that might allow him to get a ring before its all said and done...

Oh and sitting on a bench and making that kind of money? I'd take that job from him in a second.

[Andrew]

Oh and sitting on a bench and making that kind of money? I'd take that job from him in a second.

I've often thought the same thing as I'm sure we all do, but in context it probably wouldn't be all that much fun. I've worked jobs where I've been able to get my work done by midday or even earlier leaving me to scramble to find something to keep busy with or sitting there with nothing to do; essentially paying me to sit, admittedly not as much as Allen Iverson is making but still being paid to doing very little to nothing some days. And while that's a sweet gig on one hand, it could also get very boring and that makes the day go even slower. So if a professional athlete is keen to compete but they're being held out against their will, I'd suggest it has to be frustrating and boring at times to sit and not be involved and while they're getting a ridiculous amount of money to be bored, it's still job dissatisfaction.

Don't get me wrong, I'd switch places with him too. But I reckon I'd get a bit restless and want to play after a while of it, same as him. Of course I wouldn't be able to live up that contract but that's a whole other story.

I completely agree about skipping practice though, he has those commitments the same as anyone else in the league and he has to honour those commitments. To his credit though he put his hand up and admitted fault whereas he once brushed aside the question with that memorable quote.

[benji]

to benij and people he's probably one of the greatest ever thanks to his statistics

Comments like that show how much you know about actually using statistics.

AI still got the blame and was sitting deep on the bench, where he barely got minutes at all...Iverson wanted to play, he would've accepted a bench role if he would've gotten quality minutes.

What are you talking about? Iverson was playing 38+ minutes a game for much of the season. Then Curry made the correct decision to move him to the bench since he fit better with the second unit and the team wasn't going to bench Stuckey. He, like Rip would've been coming off the bench and still playing 30+ minutes a game. He then got "injured" before eventually being coaxed back to come off the bench. (Allowing the superior playing Bynum to steal his job.) After three crappy games (all 17+ minutes, far from "barely getting minutes") he decided he'd rather retire than come off the bench and be treated like the non-star he is, so he bailed on the team for the second time.

someone who can't win.. What's that supposed to mean anyway ?

Someone who hurts their team. Like Antoine Walker.

[NovU]

I think DrGonzo has a point. He as a replacement for Billups was a total failure, nothing good at ALL for Detroit. As a leader, he failed. As a mentor/role model for young players, he failed. As 22 mil player, he failed. As a team player, he failed. As a point guard, he failed. As a shooting guard, he failed. As a starter, he failed. As a bench player, he failed. As a positive locker room presence, he failed. Now it's evident, that Denver was better off without AI so was Detroit. It's almost proven that he's a team chemistry killer. Unless he makes an adjustment, he'll fail again.

Oh c'mon for gods sake .. He was never taken in as a leader, he didn't played alright in the beginning, but as the team sucked because Chauncey was gone, not because AI came in, AI still got the blame and was sitting deep on the bench, where he barely got minutes at all. Hence, he said he would retire before doing that again, which is better than just staying there and accepting money coming to you without playing at all. Iverson wanted to play, he would've accepted a bench role if he would've gotten quality minutes.

AI was proven as a chemistry killer ? Oh, once again, stop this b/s ! Nuggets' record in 07-08 was 50-32 with that total failure and in 08-09 they had 4 more wins when they got rid of him while getting a God in return. Wow, thank god they lost AI, he really held them back. Yes, they lost in the first round, to the LA Lakers, the same team they are facing this year in the conference finals. I doubt that the Nuggets manage to beat LA, despite the fact I'm pulling for them.

AI made adjustments, but the Pistons as a team weren't what they were before. As I mentioned earlier, they sucked as a whole and after I read what you said about Detroit being better without AI (and Billups, I guess) .. yeah, seriously.

Despite that, I can't say you're all completely wrong and AI doesn't make mistakes, he makes a lot of them, even too much. Therefore, it's not like he's the worst basketball player in world as many make him out to be, he's a great basketball player with an extraordinary talent, but he's never been lucky enough. I don't know, to benij and people he's probably one of the greatest ever thanks to his statistics, but he hasn't managed to win just yet, but it drives me insane when people label him as a cancer, someone who can't win.. What's that supposed to mean anyway ? Iverson is playing hard night in night out, he has had problems with not going to practice a few times, but seriously, it's natural, a basketball player doesn't go to practice every damn day ? Oh, so he's definitely a cancer, no way he's going to get good money from teams and there's like no chance he's going to win. C'mon, it almost seemed to me as Chauncey left Detroit, the players gave up. Maybe it is because they didn't want him gone, maybe not, I have no idea, but as Chauncey, a superior winner compared to Iverson, was an excellent fit in Detroit, without him, the Pistons didn't have a glove anymore.

No, Iverson wasn't a failure in Detroit. He did exactly what the front office wanted him to do, expire.

The Pistons sucked as a whole, but isn't super talented HOF caliber player supposed to help them out of a funk? People almost can say, Rip, Bynum and Stuckey were better players than AI.

Yes, Iverson was a failure in Detroit. Detroit getting cap space being only success and all other wishes and expectations failed, also for AI, it was as bad as it could have got. He failed in Detroit and now not only he won't get the contract nowhere near his old one, but he will also find tough time trying to find a good team to sign with.

Btw, I still think I am a fan of AI as I want to see him revive his career as a star player.

[Jackal]

So if a professional athlete is keen to compete but they're being held out against their will, I'd suggest it has to be frustrating and boring at times to sit and not be involved and while they're getting a ridiculous amount of money to be bored, it's still job dissatisfaction.

I understand the point you're trying to make, but it's different from us "regular" folks. He's getting paid to watch basketball from the best seats on the floor. Paid to watch basketball you says? Nicholson wouldn't mind that one. Playing? Par-take in practice, get in your playing time too. It's just practice man...practice.

[shadowgrin]

Someone who hurts their team. Like Antoine Walker.

Damn it benji. If you bad mouth Antoine Walker one more time I swear I'm going to take those silly statistics of yours, cram it down you throat, and force you to watch the games.

[Modifly]

What's so bad about Antoine Walker?

[Andrew]

So if a professional athlete is keen to compete but they're being held out against their will, I'd suggest it has to be frustrating and boring at times to sit and not be involved and while they're getting a ridiculous amount of money to be bored, it's still job dissatisfaction.

I understand the point you're trying to make, but it's different from us "regular" folks. He's getting paid to watch basketball from the best seats on the floor. Paid to watch basketball you says? Nicholson wouldn't mind that one. Playing? Par-take in practice, get in your playing time too. It's just practice man...practice.

True, like I said I wouldn't mind being in his place. But I can still relate to the common denominator of job dissatisfaction.