Chicago Bulls Thread

[Andrew]

Injuries, lack of consistency, players not suiting the system...take your pick, I'd say it's a combination of all those things. It's not like there isn't talent on the roster, but they're either not gelling or not being utilised properly; round holes and square pegs, and all that.

[air gordon]

Inconsistency, not being used properly- is this a coaching issue? How do you rate Hoiberg's job thus far?

[Andrew]

It's hard to say, because I guess I'm unsure as to where to lay blame right now. I mean, Thibbs was notoriously a "defensive coach", and of course, he also had a reputation for running players into the ground. So when the change was made, I figured there was a good chance we'd see better offense, less wear and tear on the roster, and so forth. I don't think there's been that improvement to the offense, but I couldn't say for sure whether it's Hoiberg that's the bust, or whether the roster just can't get the job done, no matter who's calling the shots.

It's frustrating to see it all unfold. We've seen some Bulls teams in the past decade or so really overachieve, but I think this current squad is definitely underachieving. On paper at least, they seem like a much better team than their current record would suggest.

[air gordon]

Didn't Gar/Pax say after Thibs was fired they were going to have an extensive coaching search? Several days later Hoiberg was hired and they said they had a championship roster and were happy to have a coach they can communicate with

The issues from last year remain but are actually worse as evidenced by their dip in offensive, defensive efficiency... Never mind their record. At lest the coach and management get along. If it's not coach, then is it management who is the problem???

On a side note -One thing that gets swepped under the rug is the players minutes. This was one of managements biggest issues with Thibs yet Butler is again amongst the leaders in mpg and Gasol is playing entire quarters

[Andrew]

It does make you think they were more concerned about finding someone affable (controllable?) than someone who actually had the right coaching chops. To Hoiberg's credit, he did have some respectable success at the college level and appeared to have some good ideas offensively, so there was cause for optimism at the time.

As far as the minutes are concerned, while it was (and still is) an issue, I get the feeling it was another excuse to send Thibs packing. I feel the main reason is that he stood up for himself, and didn't suffer their attitude and ego with a smile. That's not to say moving on to another coach was necessarily the wrong decision, I'm just a bit cynically sceptical of management's primary reason for doing so when and how they did. I mean, they didn't even want to wait until his contract was up, or the Bulls hit a rough patch this season to pull the trigger. He was gone after the Bulls finally eked out another 50 win season.

[air gordon]

I don't think Hoiberg is a bad coach. the players don't believe in/execute his system. Hoiberg repeatedly talks in the postgame about not enough pace- advance the ball past mid court in 3 seconds. Rose responds he thinks he's doing fine in that matter. Recently Taj said they need to execute the plays Hoiberg draws up on the blackboard.

the rosters true colors are coming out. They just aren't as good as management thinks they are. Thibs got the most of what he had. This is the collection of players management put together paired with the coach of their choice.

Or maybe I'm wrong on all this. They are underachieving

[Andrew]

It might be fair to say it's both. The roster isn't as good as management thinks it is, but they're also better than their current record. Still not good enough, either way.

I've noticed Rose doing that when he's bringing the ball up the floor. He kind of jogs up the floor at a fraction of the speed that he's still capable of despite all the knee injuries, takes a long stride to get across half court, and then stalls the offense.

[air gordon]

What makes you think they are better than their record? Not counting the games both butler and general soreness missed. Do you believe they can beat any of the teams ahead of them in a best of 7??

Are jimmy and pau that good enough to carry the dead weight of this roster?

[Andrew]

I think there is talent on the roster, enough to have some more wins than they currently have. Injuries aside, they haven't played well on a consistent basis, and so they've underachieved as a result. Winnable games have slipped through their fingers on multiple occasions.

A few weeks ago, when they seemed to have it more together for a winning streak that extended over a week? I'd have said they could hang with most of the East, and have as good a shot as most to make it through to the Conference Finals (where I'd still be inclined to take the Cavs over them). Right now, though? It doesn't seem like they can get on the same page. That along with missing key players means a low seed, which means no home court advantage, on top of everything else. It's hard to see them really having much of a run in the postseason, if indeed they don't slip out of the top eight altogether.

The question is, what can they do? I can't see them making a trade, because as we've discussed before, their hands are tied in so many ways as far as the players they'd be putting on the trading block. I doubt Hoiberg will be fired with four full years left on his contract, so I don't see a coaching change. It kind of comes down to hoping they can somehow work it out and play better, or some team is desperate and/or dumb enough to gift them a good player. Crossing fingers and wishing on a star - pun intended - isn't a reliable long-term plan, but it's about all they can realistically do right now.

[air gordon]

On the flip side, consider the games they came back to win. It all evens out . Really, they've had less than a handful of convincing wins

the only way I see them getting past the 1st round is if Jimmy Buckets can go into Beast mode for an entire series. btw after his 50pt game look at how he played the following the game. completely gassed.

What to do? Wait for Rose's contract to expire. I'd like to see the rebuilding process expedited until then. Trade Pau, Gibson, Niko, Snell, MJD. Open up playing time for Portis and let Rose shoot as many times as he wants. Miss the playoffs and package their pick along with the Kings pick.

I'm for trading everyone not named Butler and Portis. give Hoiberg a fair shot and give him players that can shoot and run his offense

I'd hate to see the team lose but it has to happen in order to put pressure on the management. Reinsdorf doesn't want to pay the luxury tax for a lottery team

But hey, management is too proud to admit this roster needs to be shaken up. They'll just play the season out, let Rose and Butler take turns on isolations.

[Andrew]

Absolutely, more options will hopefully open up in the future, when Rose's contract is up/in its final year. I just meant there's not a lot they can do immediately, barring a miracle. I'm also all for them moving anyone not named Jimmy Butler.

[air gordon]

So you think they should just stand pat and play it out, hoping they "figure it out" and make a run in the playoffs?

[Andrew]

As I've said before, I don't think they have much of a choice in that regard. I'd be happy for them to shake things up and make a move, I just don't think they can or will.

I mean, I'll throw one crazy suggestion out there...Joakim Noah and Taj Gibson for Dwight Howard and Terrence Jones. This scenario assumes that the Rockets expect to lose Howard this offseason, want to be rid of him now, and see value in Noah's contract coming off the books at the end of the season.

I'm not crazy about Howard's attitude, and his low post game should be far more developed than it is. However, compared to Noah, he's Hakeem Olajuwon on the block. And with Noah out, you're not getting anything from him, anyway. He's not a franchise player, but that's what we're expecting Butler to be for the Bulls; Howard is still capable, even if he's not the player he perhaps should be. With Gasol seemingly doing more in the high post and from midrange these days, it might work out a little better than it did in Los Angeles. I'm not thrilled with the idea of giving up Noah and Gibson in the same deal, but you kind of have to as far as this idea is concerned, for the salaries to match. Jones is a pretty solid player to get in return though, and of course, Bobby Portis is waiting in the wings.

The thing is, I don't think Houston likes that deal, even if there's a pick or two involved. I'm also guessing that the Bulls aren't going to be keen on trading Noah, even if the other team (in this case Houston) says sure, we don't care about the injury, we're in it for the expiring contract. But I'd have no objection to shaking things up like that...I just don't think it's going to happen.

[mp3]

Injuries but still the Kings are interested in offloading Rudy Gay to the Bulls.

Niko and Noah for Rudy and Ben McL do you do it?

[Andrew]

I still have some reservations about Rudy Gay, as it seems like every time he's been traded, the team that dealt him fared a little better. For what it's worth, the trade machine has the Bulls at -2 wins following that deal. So I'm a bit iffy on it being a great deal for the Bulls.

[mp3]

There is also small talk about the Bulls trading Pau rather than taking a chance of him leaving in the summer.

[Andrew]

That seems plausible, though they apparently are keen on re-signing him if they can.

Meanwhile, here's a suggestion for a trade. Bulls are -1 win after that deal, according to the trade machine.

[mp3]

I'd do that trade, Collison has being solid when starting and healthy and honestly Rudy Gay at this point has more good days than Rose.

Plus I think the Kings would love to have that pick by ad the Bulls never get chance to use it lol

[air gordon]

all right! trade scenarios!

dwight-jones is ok. imo it's just a dump for the bulls too with jones getting a tryout. i do like jones skillset. his injury history is a concern. it would make more sense to acquire him if they clear out one of Portis or Niko.

bobby marks suggestion of rose/snell for gay/collison makes too much sense for the bulls. i do not like gay much and question his fit next to butler but to get something of value for rose and not get stuck with a bad contract in return is just gravy. bulls stay competitive and the payroll is still set up to make a run in FA 2017

another rumor with the kings:
Nikola Mirotic, Tony Snell, Joakim Noah's expiring deal & 1st rounder to #Kings for Rudy Gay & Ben McLemore.

this is a more questionable move on the bulls part/makes sense for the kings to. snell is garbage and why not take a flier on a younger player with some athleticism (but a disappointment so far). are bulls fans ready to move on from Niko? Gay has issues but he does fill the glaring hole at SF and can rotate to PF as well.

[Andrew]

I kind of like Niko/Snell/Noah for Gay and McLemore a little better. Snell is definitely expendable, and at this point, I feel Noah is too. I mean, he's obviously not able to contribute anything right now, but he's regressed so much and it doesn't seem like he's ever going to be healthy. Mad as it may seem, I actually have more confidence in Rose being able to return to being a consistent contributor than I do Noah, and it's not like I'm not sceptical about Rose.

It does feel kind of early to give up on Niko. I like some of the skills he brings to the table, but I have to admit, I'm disappointed by his offensive production. He's shooting the ball pretty terribly from midrange, and despite the Threekola nickname, he's not quite a deadeye from three-point range, though he is shooting better from outside this season. Gay would likely be better offensively, and has the size to be used as a stretch four if they wanted to. It would be with some regrets, but I think I'd pull the trigger on that deal.

[air gordon]

haha admit you like Rose toying with your emotions. it's like that hot ex who treats you shit but you keep coming back for more

i would not pass up a chance to get rid of Rose in that kind of deal! where the heck is geezer

[air gordon]

Latest rumor is Gasol and smell for mclemore, koufos, lower the top 10 protection on the pick owed to Bulls
Discuss

[Andrew]

Glutton for punishment when it comes to Rose, no doubt.

That trade would be better than losing Gasol for nothing I guess, but...I don't know, is that the best they can get for him? I'll admit I don't have any other scenarios in mind, but a career backup and a young player who's been a bit of a disappointment so far seems a bit of a low price for a player who's still pretty good. Lowering the protection on the pick is interesting, but I reckon the Kings will end up keeping it anyway, making it another lacklustre deal.

Meanwhile, Gasol reportedly wants to remain a Bull.

[air gordon]

What do you think the market is for him? He's a 2 month rental

A deal like this may restore my faith in management.

I was expecting a salary dump to avoid paying tax dollars

[Andrew]

I suppose there is that risk; doesn't help matters. I guess the earlier conversation about the best trades the Bulls have managed got me a little wistful about the deals other teams seem to be able to make.