2011 NBA Finals: Mavs V. Heat, part deux

[Sauru]

ok so trading away an entire team for 2 players is the same as 2 players calling a player and joining him?


seeing as this is from benji (always starting shit ) and novu (clueless ) this is pointless to go on about. anyone who thinks the 2 teams were built the same knows shit about sports

[Mavs4Life]

benji (always starting shit )

, but it's true.

[George7]

Mark Cuban on SportsCenter: "Our fans just punked the shit out of Heat fans." Gotta love live TV.

Gotta agree with Cuban on this!

[NovU]

I honestly thin it's no different. Acquiring 2 stars from free agency or via trade, it's same stacking, stars being added on top of an existing star. I think you are just not liking the stories behind.

Besides your team won it all in very first year and people didn't go crying it wasn't fair.

[Mavs4Life]

Just a descisve free agency move. Meanwhile Cleveland will have some young talent cmoing in & they'll be superstars before you know it.

[jonthefon]

Wait, benji, can you just clarify the Bosh-as-potential HOFer thing? I can see why he might be, given how he's produced eight really good seasons, but I find the HOFer monitor thing pretty odd.

[Sauru]

what did you give up to get james and bosh? celtics gave up pretty much the entire team except pierce (everyone said rondo was worthless then). celtics got 2 aging stars, miami got 2 stars in their prime. how again is this the same thing?

i am not saying adding multiple stars to teams is wrong i am saying how miami did it is bad for the nba. imagine if 3 of the top 5 rookies in a draft all waited for their contracts to expire then plan to play together on the same team....wait no need to imagine it already happened

[hova-]

Maybe it's just that "veteran" thing that makes it more likeable. You know, Allen, KG, Pierce were already beyond 30 and just like Dirk & Kidd, everybody seems to like seeing these guys getting a ring.

So the Heat just aren't old enough to be likeable? I don't know but it looks like many think like that.

[Sauru]

Wait, benji, can you just clarify the Bosh-as-potential HOFer thing? I can see why he might be, given how he's produced eight really good seasons, but I find the HOFer monitor thing pretty odd.

the hall of fame lets in far too many players. imo only garnett is a guarenteed hall of famer but my standards are higher i guess. allen deserves it with the ring, still dont think pierce is hall material. imo bosh is not hall material and the worst of the 6


also the heat are not likable cause they came out and told everyone they were done. they turned the off season into a circus act and claimed they were a dynasty already. you usually get 2 things happen with good teams, lots of bandwagoners and lots of hate. the celtics also had a lot of hate on them though not nearly as bad as the heat, or the lakers either

[hova-]

Pierce is one of the craftiest scorers I've seen in the time I've been watching the NBA. He's a bit like Dirk, does not rely on athleticism, uses great fakes and is loyal and resilient. If Allen makes it because of his three point shooting, then Pierce needs to be in there, too.

[shadowgrin]

Wait, benji, can you just clarify the Bosh-as-potential HOFer thing? I can see why he might be, given how he's produced eight really good seasons, but I find the HOFer monitor thing pretty odd.

benji was referring to the Celtics.

[NovU]

The Heat gave up salary cap space which led us to eagerly shop whoever's cheaply available. But like the Celtics, many veterans were willing to join taking chances at the ring over money. But you are right, we added 2 stars in their prime and that is BAD.

But your notion that it's bad to add superstars through free agency, cannot agree. All teams work under salary cap and should be allowed to do whatever they can to improve their team. But if you are hating how Wade affected their decision, I have no say in that.

[Sauru]

i think winning the ring makes it ok to put pierce in. without it i dont put pierce or allen in. but again thats just me. seems everyone who is the main guy on a team gets in now though

[George7]

I think I might agree with Hova on this. The whole "aging veterans teaming up to a historic team in order to pursuit their last chances for a ring" concept was way more appealing and as it seems more successful too, as in fact the Celtics got the ring in their first season, while the Heat's Big 2 & 1/2 don't

[Sauru]

The Heat gave up salary cap space which led us to eagerly shop whoever's cheaply available. But like the Celtics, many veterans were willing to join taking chances at the ring over money. But you are right, we added 2 stars in their prime and that is BAD.

But your notion that it's bad to add superstars through free agency, cannot agree. All teams work under salary cap and should be allowed to do whatever they can to improve their team. But if you are hating how Wade affected their decision, I have no say in that.

its how it was done. thats all i am saying. the point of free agency is to add players i am saying how they added them is whats bad for basketball.

[hova-]

I agree with you on that. Too many players in there. But once you start to lower the standard, you gotta keep that level and let those in who were just as good as the guys already in.

[Sauru]

I think I might agree with Hova on this. The whole "aging veterans teaming up to a historic team in order to pursuit their last chances for a ring" concept was way more appealing and as it seems more successful too, as in fact the Celtics got the ring in their first season, while the Heat's Big 2 & 1/2 don't

the lakers did this and no one loved them for it. no one was saying how good it was for malone and payton to just sign with the team.

[Sauru]

I agree with you on that. Too many players in there. But once you start to lower the standard, you gotta keep that level and let those in who were just as good as the guys already in.

well ya by the standards set now, 5 of the 6 belong in if you ask me. bosh will probably prove him self good enough when he wins his 2-3 rings

[Andrew]

i think winning the ring makes it ok to put pierce in. without it i dont put pierce or allen in. but again thats just me. seems everyone who is the main guy on a team gets in now though

In all fairness, such players tend to have standout careers though. There aren't any Chuck Nevitts or Marty Conlons in the Hall of Fame.

[benji]

The Heat gutted their team for the cap space after years of being screwed in the draft and by injuries and used it wisely. The Celtics traded one player who still starts in the league and a bunch of draft picks for one of the greatest shooters and one of the five best power forwards of all time.

You're acting like the Celtics were just content to go along building the team through the draft wasting Pierce's career then shockingly were given a draft pick higher than they were expected to have so the plan was ruined and they had to blow things up by trading for two of the best players in the league. (While keeping three fifths of the championship starting lineup and Tony Allen, then using the clout of their backup plan to sign a bunch of ring chasing veterans to fill out the roster for the next four years before blowing things up trading for the loser originally drafted at #5.) Rather than what happened in KG deciding he'd finally go on the market and the team taking advantage of the Sonics blowing things up so they could flip the pick and Wally's expiring contract into Ray Allen (and Glen Davis) the pairing of the two plus the rest of the roster being used as leverage (by Pierce and Allen who FUCKING CALLED HIM) to get KG to accept the trade to Boston that he was initially refusing.

But I agree I don't know shit about sports because I always thought it was about playing the games not the high school drama about who is calling who, who is DOING THINGS THE "RIGHT" WAY and hours of armchair psychoanalysis by "people" who haven't ever shown an ability to produce coherent thoughts.

If you want narrative, drama and hero/villain driven "sports" entertainment, we already have the WWE.

Wait, benji, can you just clarify the Bosh-as-potential HOFer thing? I can see why he might be, given how he's produced eight really good seasons, but I find the HOFer monitor thing pretty odd.

It was short hand for great players and mainly to poke fun at Sauru's Celtics-can-do-no-evil blinders.

imo only garnett is a guarenteed hall of famer but my standards are higher i guess. allen deserves it with the ring, still dont think pierce is hall material.

Silly, Allen and Pierce are two of the top ten players at their positions for the modern era.

i am not saying adding multiple stars to teams is wrong i am saying how miami did it is bad for the nba. imagine if 3 of the top 5 rookies in a draft all waited for their contracts to expire then plan to play together on the same team....wait no need to imagine it already happened

What's wrong with it? Should players not have a say where they want to play? They have to be stuck wherever they're drafted forever?

And all three of them had already signed contract extensions with their teams once. KG demanded out of Minny, Melo demanded he go to New York. Amare mortally wounded a franchise to leave for the Knicks.

Oh wait, you've already said that yes, player driven movement should be banned. Unless it helps the Celtics.

the lakers did this and no one loved them for it. no one was saying how good it was for malone and payton to just sign with the team.

Except for, you know all the fucking Laker fans and the vast majority of the media.

[NovU]

Bosh a HOF? I will do a straight trade with the aging Mavericks's HOF, Bosh for Dirk. Heck, I'd even throw Chalmers on top.

[Jeffx]

Too many turnovers, lapses on defense, and HORRIBLE free throw shooting - how many points did Miami leave at the line? And the less said about Chalmers, the better. Dirk had a bad first half, but his guys held the fort. When you're leading at the half with Dirk going 1-for-12, you're in great shape.

The dude I'm happiest for is Jason Kidd. After 17 years, he finally gets a ring with the team that originally drafted him.

[shadowgrin]

Interview with Mark Cuban. I think he finally realized that he's a distraction to his team when he doesn't keep his mouth shut.

Guess I spoke early. Still a good one though.
Cuban saying that Dirk wanted to form a Big 3 so he called Cardinal, and Mahinmi to go to Dallas.

[Sauru]

so wait laker fans like the lakers? well glad thats out of the way. now as for everyone who is not a laker fan there is a ton of hate. no one hates the clippers who is not a clipper fan plenty hate thelakers. kinda like, and this is kinda funny but, all the heat fans love the heat. non heat fans not so much. odd how that works?


and again tyou seem to not understand what i am saying, its how it was all done thats bad for the game. its been explained you dont understand it then i guess i just aint explaining it right or you dont want to understand.

[benji]

You can't explain why because it wasn't.

You've already noted you have a problem with free agency. Some of us believe players should be allowed to play where they want on the terms they want.