Chicago Bulls Thread

[benji]

The Bulls star [Jimmy Butler] said of his coach: "I believe in the guys in this locker room but I also believe we probably have to be coached a lot harder at times. I'm sorry, I know Fred is a laid back guy and I really respect him for that, but when guys aren't doing what they're supposed to do, you have to get on guys -- myself included."

[Jeffx]

Bob Love? He's listed as a power forward and small forward.

How about Joakim Noah or Bill Cartwright? As a Part B, who has the uglier jumpshot? For that second question, you may want to flip a coin, and hope that it doesn't come down.

What would your all-time Bulls team look like? Assuming you had each player at their best. I'd probably go with...

C: Artis Gilmore
F: Dennis Rodman
F: Scottie Pippen
G: Michael Jordan
G: Derrick Rose

Bench:

Horace Grant (F)
Jerry Sloan (G)
Bob Love (F)
Kirk Hinrich (G)
Joakim Noah (C)
Jimmy Butler (G)
Toni Kukoc (F)

IR:

John Paxson (G)
B.J. Armstrong (G)
Norm Van Lier (G)

I'm tempted to put Gasol on there, but a year and counting probably isn't enough to qualify. Granted, Rodman only played three seasons with the team, but they were very significant seasons in which he played a major role.

Artis Gilmore....you know, one of the best series I've ever seen was the opening round of the 1977 playoffs between Portland and Chicago (best 2 out of 3). That Bulls team was tough and physical - Gilmore gave Walton fits. The Blazers championship run nearly ended before it got started, but Portland gutted out a win in Game 3 to advance.

[Andrew]

For someone who played 16 years in the ABA and NBA, made a bunch of All-Star teams, shot over 60% several times and averaged a double-double in his prime (including a few 20-10 seasons), it feels like he doesn't get mentioned a lot. To be fair of course, there have been a lot of great big men throughout the history of the league whose accomplishments outnumber his, so it stands to reason that he's overshadowed to some extent.

Meanwhile, I've got no issue with Butler calling out the team and Hoiberg. It was done as respectfully as possible, and I think you can grant your leader that kind of latitude.

[benji]

I thought of Gilmore, especially late NBA Gilmore, like a more advanced Tyson Chandler in that he wouldn't demand the ball and pound it away in the post. He was happy to hit the boards, score in the flow of things, not take bad shots. He could still turn to a post move or two, but it was like he knew he was getting his 15-20 anyway without needing extra touches. Pretty good FT shooter too.

They're kinda the opposite breed from a Mutombo who wanted to be a big time post up scorer but stunk at it, when he easily would get 15 a game if he/when hustled like Gilmore/Chandler and got them in the flow off quick moves inside and rebounds. So Mutombo's FG% doesn't look anything like those guys'.

The only guys to average 10+/10+ per 36 and .600+ TS in their careers are:
20,000+ minutes: Barkley (21.7/11.5. .612), Gilmore (18.9/11.1, .643), Chandler (11.0/11.7, .621), James Donaldson (11.3/10.3, .618)
2,000+ minutes: DeAndre Jordan (11.2/12.6, .620), Jeff Ruland (18.7/11.0, .615), Valanciunas (15.1/11.0, .605), Gobert (10.8/12.7, .606), Whiteside (16.6/14.6, .610), Oden (14.9/11.6, .609)

On the Blazers note, from a story I read only recently, their run also was threatened when starting guard Dave Twardzik went down with an injury, Ramsay decided to go with rookie Johnny Davis and Walton credits it as turning the team into the champions:

Behind 25 points from Davis, the Blazers not only eliminated Denver in the next game, they became a different team, both offensively and defensively.

"Things changed instantly for us," Walton later wrote. "We went from being a very good team to one that could not be beaten."

Davis was so fast he simply outran defenders when Walton grabbed a rebound and threw him an outlet pass. And on defense, he teamed with backcourt mate Lionel Hollins to terrorize ball handlers.

"When Johnny took over, we were able to pressure like crazy, and we wouldn't have been able to do that with Larry Steele guarding one of the guards," Hollins says today.

Hollins said that defensive pressure set the tone for the Blazers' sweep of the heavily favored Lakers in the Western Conference finals because it prevented Lakers guards Lucius Allen and Don Chaney from getting Kareem Abdul-Jabbar the ball as often as the Lakers would have liked.

"Without Johnny, we don't sweep the Lakers that way," Hollins said. "And then when we got to the Finals, Philadelphia had their centers bring the ball up because they were afraid of us."

[benji]

Two 1970s stars going at it in 1983:

phpBB [video]

Watch how fast both of them put it up after getting the ball. And how quick Gilmore is at getting into the paint as the ball heads there. They're 33 and 35.

And Gilmore's sky hook back at Kareem lol

Gilmore was in the 1976 ABA Dunk Contest with Dr. J.

[air gordon]

Sloan for 2nd best. My mistake on love

The Bulls star [Jimmy Butler] said of his coach: "I believe in the guys in this locker room but I also believe we probably have to be coached a lot harder at times. I'm sorry, I know Fred is a laid back guy and I really respect him for that, but when guys aren't doing what they're supposed to do, you have to get on guys -- myself included."

Can't wait for his comments on the management haha

Prolly should have kept the coach comments off the record. Every time the Bulls have a losing streak the shit hits the fan

[benji]

Noah had 8 assists in 16 minutes.

[air gordon]

Pathetic loss to lowly Nets.. At home

Perfect timing. Mini losing steak and a little controversy heading into a nationally televised game. If they lose this one uh oh..

Portis unleashed!

[Andrew]

Here's hoping a Portis emergence is the silver lining to Noah's injury. Some good news and fortune wouldn't go astray right about now.

[air gordon]

a must needed win to say the least.

how much better would this team be if they were getting average/replacement level production level from their starting PG?
His PER is 9
81 of 83 in RPM ranking of point guards

the convenient argument of "he's been more aggressive" and he has a good skillset has not translated into improved efficiency. when he does have a "good" game it barely meets/passes the league average.

3 months into the season. the eye injury excuse is running on empty

Rose talks of how he believes he is still "great". do bulls fans believe this?

interesting suggestion from our friends at true hoop:
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=14418014

i'm just about ready to sign off an Jarret Jack/Joe johnson for Rose trade

[Andrew]

It's definitely hard to remain optimistic at this point. A spell in the D-League would probably be pretty crushing to the ego, but surely anything is worth a try at this point.

[Andrew]

So, this is a discussion that's been started: Should The Bulls ‘Blow Things Up’ By Trading Jimmy Butler?

For a team with a 16-12 record, the Chicago Bulls are as disappointing and unhappy franchise that exists in the NBA right now (with fierce competition from the Rockets, Pelicans and Suns). With Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah nowhere near the players they used to be, the presence of a new coach, and star Jimmy Butler fresh off signing a huge contract, it seemed time for a natural changing of the leadership guard in Chicago.

Unfortunately, that transition hasn’t gone smoothly at all, and according to ESPN’s Bulls beat reporter Nick Friedell (on Tim Bontemps’ podcast), the problem goes deeper than most people dared to think, and it starts with Butler’s attitude.

You talk to anybody within that Bulls organization, and they’ll tell you that Jimmy has changed. His personality has changed. And it’s not to say he’s wrong in that.

But this was a kid that loved saying he was from Tomball, Texas and that he was just a role player on a really good team. And now he wants all the trappings that come with being a star in the league.

And that’s all well and good.

But again, this ties back into the leadership problem this team has. You can say all that, but you can’t just say, “Alright, I’m the leader.” You have to earn that respect over time. Maybe Jimmy will…

He’s really rubbed some people the wrong way with how he’s going about things. So, it’s something to watch for, and it’s something that I know is on the minds of the front office in that, “Can we trust this guy to go out and to be who we need him to be every night, and can he lead us the way that a championship-caliber team needs to be led?” And early on, the returns have been no.

If what they're saying about Butler's attitude is true, then that's a shame. It's not that demanding and difficult teammates can't be effective leaders on successful teams, as the Bulls did pretty well with Michael Jordan back in the day, but Butler is no Jordan. If he's acting like he's a top five player in the league without actually being one (and I wouldn't rank him that high at this juncture) and he's also alienating teammates along the way...well, it's stating the bleeding obvious here, but yeah, that's a problem. However, hopefully the team can push through the dysfunction and if need be, Butler can reign it in a little. Or play well enough that it stops being an issue, whichever yields the best results.

As far as the prospect of trading him...no, no, I don't think so. I mean, who are they getting in return? Stephen Curry? LeBron James? Kevin Durant? Anthony Davis? I feel confident in saying they wouldn't land any of the above. They may have to sort a few things out with Butler, but they shouldn't be trading away the one player on the team they can feasibly build around.

[air gordon]

But again, this ties back into the leadership problem this team has

This is the best part of the article. The TNT crew had it right on opening day. Now that Thibs is gone, there is no leader. I think Noah was also a leader but now he's coming off the bench

Butler has been vocal about lack of effort all season. Noah admitted too even after a blowout victory against the Sixers. Sounds to me the players don't like being called out on it

The only players effort I don't question is Butler, Noah, and Taj. All Thibs guys

friedell has been covering the team for some time now and his opinions of the problems from last year carried over. Thibs just isn't there to keep on pushing them.

As long as there no pressure on the management i expect the same dysfunction to continue

On the bright side it was total team effort for yesterday's win. Don't look now but Rose has put together some good games

[air gordon]

Jimmy Buckets!
When's the last time a game ended where both teams last possession was a back door cut/lob to the basket! One of my fav Bulls game thus far

butlers shot selection has been suspect the last 2 games. When all else fails ISO butler on a good defender

Anyone else see the "Westbrook" type shots Butler and Rose take after one of them goes on mini run??

And back to this leader thing- who should be the leader of this rag tag group???

[NovU]

Jimmy's tip in was pure gold. And that block against George. LoL, I can't wait for their next game now. George should be extra motivated.

[Moz]

butlers shot selection has been suspect the last 2 games. When all else fails ISO butler on a good defender

I heard Hoiberg have to insert this to his playset to appease Butler... He's posting up smaller/weaker guards for some time now which, I reckon, is much preferable than jacking up long shots after long shots as if he's Klay Thompson...

The past games are frustrating in regards on them defending the boards (the sigh of the thousands in UC is a testament to that)... They would've won the Nets and Mavs games (just like last game when they allowed Monta Ellis to have the opportunity to tie the game up) if they didn't allow tons of tons of second chance points... They're shopping Gasol, Taj, and Jo for a solid wing. They should've included Niko in it or perhaps a package will include him. Portis is the superior player of the two and I'm glad Hoiberg is noticing that benching Niko and giving Bobby quality minutes. I hope they'll keep Jo... Beside the fact that he's the much needed offensive rebounder of the team, I'm beginning to feel like he's the better guy for Hoiball since he encourages ball movement unlike the two who slows down their offense and tend to make it stagnant at times... Brooks' shot selections, although there are still some few headscratchers at times, are much better since he was lifted from being benched.

[air gordon]

I heard Hoiberg have to insert this to his playset to appease Butler... He's posting up smaller/weaker guards for some time now which, I reckon, is much preferable than jacking up long shots after long shots as if he's Klay Thompson...

yeah for both him and Gasol. since Rose is out it makes sense to get them the ball. looks like those 2 have the chemistry going lately

They're shopping Gasol, Taj, and Jo for a solid wing. They should've included Niko in it or perhaps a package will include him

I hope management will do it. Portis play is forcing Fredberg/management to play him

Portis is the superior player of the two and I'm glad Hoiberg is noticing that benching Niko and giving Bobby quality minutes. I hope they'll keep Jo... Beside the fact that he's the much needed offensive rebounder of the team, I'm beginning to feel like he's the better guy for Hoiball since he encourages ball movement unlike the two who slows down their offense and tend to make it stagnant at times

it seems Niko has been moved to SF so Portis can get the more PT. I think Niko is a GarPax favorite so he won't get traded. his game against NYK was a reminder he can still play. he's got to string some of those games together instead of this "Snell" inconsistency.

All in for Portis! he brings an energy and intensity this team is lacking. best thing about it is he has the skills to match it.

Brooks' shot selections, although there are still some few headscratchers at times, are much better since he was lifted from being benched.

gotta give up to Brooks. he's been answering the call in Rose's absence

[Andrew]

Quite a performance by Jimmy Buckets. Those missed free throws almost cost them the game, but I'm sure we'll all take it, as will they. Make it four in a row.

[air gordon]

jimmy fucking buckets. the last time i remember seeing anything like this was the ben gordon 4th quarter heroics his rookie year but even that does not come close to this

chuck swirsky said it best-

this ranks amongst the finest individual games i've ever seen

the best.....
https://twitter.com/_MarcusD_/status/683784217877032960

[Andrew]

Agreed, really great to see that camaraderie.

[air gordon]

nice breakdown of Gasol and his defense
http://www.blogabull.com/2015/12/30/10684272/is-pau-gasol-a-good-defender
some quick exerpts:

The Good - Great Up and Down Rim Protection
Pau Gasol does not get enough credit for his ability to alter shots at the rim.

Seth's rim protection stats love Gasol even when comparing him to excellent defenders like Noah and Taj Gibson:

The Bad - Lateral Movement
Teams have been running pick and roll at the Bulls a lot when Gasol is in the game because he really struggles to move around laterally. If he has to guard space, you can just forget about it. He's not moving.

Offers Very Little in Help Rotations

Overrated Rebounder

At first glance, it would seem strange to bring up Pau Gasol's rebounding. He averages 11 per game, 8 on the defensive end. The problem is that 7.2 of those rebounds are uncontested. Gasol has a significantly lower contested rebounding percentage than Bobby Portis, Taj Gibson, or Joakim Noah. When there are other players fighting Gasol for rebounds, he does not perform very well.

Rose's MRI is negativo so he may play tonite. Has the Bulls recent play drawn you back in? Are you a believer? Butler has asserted himself as the Bulls top dog. Can he and Rose coexist??

[Andrew]

I'm feeling a bit more optimistic, and in Butler I trust. Rose...well, I'm kind of hoping he can find a way to make a decent contribution alongside Butler, with Butler as the star. The Bulls are still in limbo as far as Rose is concerned; he either needs to play better to help them, or play better to help them trade him. Either way moving forward, you're left hoping he can lift his game.

[air gordon]

a few thinking out loud thoughts about Rose. during Rose's rehab(s)- was he working on his jump shot, specifically his 3pt shot? that shot is so flat it's almost like dwight howard's superman "dunk" in the dunk contest a few years back. Niko can swish a near mid court 3pter while Rose's heave is a predestined brick.

to the good news: it looks like Rose has his legs back evidenced by his explosive moves to basket last nite. he was pushing the ball, creating one man fast breaks, getting the offense sets going early. it truly looked like Rose pre injury.

victory over the buck was the best offensive effort this season. lots of points, assists, shot well. Rose's return did not effect the gameflow. plenty of ball and player movement.

Niko has strung some good games together as well. it's an interesting dynamic with him @SF. i thought a team like NYK would exploit whoever his matchup was. Afflalo has historically done well against the bulls but it didn't happen in the last game.

the bulls schedule picks up. Boston, ATL, Dallas, Detroit, GSW, Cleveland, Miami are up in the coming few weeks.

GarPax are unlikely to make a midseason move unless it's a salary dump but is it too much to ask for a trade for someone like James Johnson? they need another perimeter defender. take some pressure off of Butler. Johnson makes $2.5mil. offer Snell, spare parts, plus a pick. get 'er done!

[Jeffx]

I'm feeling a bit more optimistic, and in Butler I trust. Rose...well, I'm kind of hoping he can find a way to make a decent contribution alongside Butler, with Butler as the star. The Bulls are still in limbo as far as Rose is concerned; he either needs to play better to help them, or play better to help them trade him. Either way moving forward, you're left hoping he can lift his game.

No doubt about it....Bulls are definitely Butler's team. It's an amazing story.

[Andrew]

Yeah, his shot was really flat. It's nice that he's attacking the basket like the Rose of old, but when those opportunities aren't there, he's not a threat. He still seems to draw some attention though and made some good passes, so that's another way he can contribute offensively. With Butler being the number one option, Rose should probably be a bit more of a distributor anyway.

Gotta love Portis' energy. He got a bit carried away with those elbows, though let's face it, he probably would've gotten away with that in the 80s and 90s. Good to see him getting a bit more of a run and showing a lot of promise.