Spirit of '99: 2011 Lockout Discussion

I'm wondering if scrapping or at least restricting sign-and-trades would prevent those deals where Keith Van Horn or the likes gets a free payday to hop on a plane & collect his cheque. Would be nice to see that loophole closed.

Without Keith Van Horn Jason Kidd wouldn't be with the Mavs and helped Dirk win a ring.

All of you Mavs and Dirk fans should be worshiping Keith Van Horn for bringing a championship to Dallas. Ungrateful bastards.

I'm wondering if scrapping or at least restricting sign-and-trades would prevent those deals where Keith Van Horn or the likes gets a free payday to hop on a plane & collect his cheque. Would be nice to see that loophole closed.

Without Keith Van Horn Jason Kidd wouldn't be with the Mavs and helped Dirk win a ring.

All of you Mavs and Dirk fans should be worshiping Keith Van Horn for bringing a championship to Dallas. Ungrateful bastards.

I'm a big KVH fan from back in his Nets' days. Him, Cassell, Kerry Kittles had the mojo going

The long socks, can't say any more. I don't mind Van Horn getting paid if it meant Mavs won.


EDIT: Back to lockout, Adande actually wrote a decent piece for him: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/33240/finally-the-real-fight

I know I might sound conflicting, saying I advocate an employee's decision to be free & then not advocating sign-and-trades, but I'm actually on player's side on this. Seems the owners are trying to prevent the Lebron's, Melo's, Dwight's & Chris Paul's of the World from choosing their place of employment. Sadly they can't. Just enjoy that you'll get them for 4 to 6 (or 7) years, when without draft lottery, rookie contracts & restricted free agency, you wouldn't have had them at all.

so they will have to meet on another day?

Yes, but there won't be any more meetings until the players consider the current proposal and the union either accepts or rejects it. If they reject it, it's almost certain they'll push for decertification of the union which will allow them to sue the league (and very likely wipe out the entire season).

Next meeting is supposed to be next week, they're calling in the player reps. Which they could have done this week, but the union is incompetent so you know.

"Billy Hunter is the worst thing to have happened to NBA" - Rick Barry summarized whole lockout like a BOSS

It could be worse.

Isiah angling for top union job

How many of you would be startled to discover Isiah Thomas has been creepin’ round Billy Hunter’s back door to get his job?

How many would be stunned to learn Florida International University’s current head coach is angling in due course to replace the executive director of the Players Association should its membership feel flogged (compromised following so many compromises) by David Stern upon the completion of a new collective bargaining agreement or if negotiations again break down and additional salary (games) get forfeited?

How many would be surprised to find out Thomas, a former president of the union during his playing days, is coiled to commandeer the slightest insinuation of instability and insurgence?

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For the love of god i hope the players accept this. I'm no expert with this stuff, but on the surface it actually seems like quite a good offer when you consider the state of the US economy.

Yeah, if that's all on the level then it doesn't seem like that bad a deal. Of course, it's a broad overview so there could be a lot of clauses and minor details that the players aren't happy about. Aside from that, I'm guessing it's the shorter contracts and phasing out of the sign-and-trade for players over the luxury tax that the players are objecting to.

Memo from David Stern to the players:
http://www.nba.com/news/Memo_to_Players_111311_3.pdf

If the players reject...fuck them. Im sick and tired of this. Ive said this before ill say this again.
The owners are rich because of their accomplishments in business, innovation, entrepreneurship. You guys just play basketball. Collect your multi-million dollar checks, nice airplane flights, hotel rooms, physical trainers, nutritionists etc. and be happy. I want a fairer league, while you want more freedom to join your friends to play basketball rather than put on a real competitive show on for the people who bother enough to root for their teams and city.

^ Couldn't have said it any better really.

From what i can tell of that CBA, it seems more than fair. Unless there's something i'm missing or not understanding, the system seems fine to me. If players don't accept that then they will be to blame for missing the season.

The players can't get greedy, accept the fucking deal and continue to get paid millions more than the teachers, scientists, mothers and other more important contributors to planet earth, for playing a fucking game. Listen to nike - JUST DO IT.

Nazr Mohammed disagrees:

If this deal is accepted...I advise guys to stay in school and get ur degree, Master's if possible. U might be able to make more $ that...

...way than playing in the NBA in ur 1st five years. Being the 1st pick of the draft would mean nothing. #NBALockout

So let me get this straight nazr... you're saying you might be able to get more money by studying hard and becoming something that can contribute something valueable to society's progression, than you would for playing professional basketball?? WHAT A BACKWARDS WORLD THAT WOULD BE!!!

Dear Nazr Mohammed,

The owners are rich because of their accomplishments in business, innovation, entrepreneurship. You guys just play basketball.

This argument constantly comes up during lockouts and anytime someone tries to whine about sports players being overpaid, and it's completely asinine. Not only does it ignore any owners who are rich because their parents were rich, or any other number of ways they could have got that much money that is easier than playing pro basketball, it completely ignores the fact that being a professional basketball player is not even slightly easy. There are millions of people competing for hundreds of jobs, and you have to be extremely good to get a job in the first place, much less keep it (or at least, you need to be able to convince someone you're extremely good).

This idea that playing pro sports is as easy as playing amateur sports is just silly.

I want a fairer league, while you want more freedom to join your friends to play basketball

I know. Isn't it just stupid to let people choose where they want to work?

This idea that playing pro sports is as easy as playing amateur sports is just silly.

I never said it was easy, I respect and look up to their position a lot but at the end of the day, it is still playing basketball, being an entertainer. Paul Allen is the owner of the blazers, compare what he (and Im sure a lot of the other owners) have contributed to society through their accomplishments and compare what the greatest basketball players would have done for the society when their careers are over. The reason Im siding with Owners is because the Players are still one of the best catered professional sports players in the world and the new deal really is not limiting their chance at making bank that badly.

I know. Isn't it just stupid to let people choose where they want to work?

I think it goes a little more like this. The NBA is the company that overall employs the player. The player has to abide by the rules (rules which are being made stricter by this new deal) set by the NBA in order to transfer from team to team controlled by the NBA. Noone is stopping Lebron from choosing the Bobcats or the Raptors or the Bulls. He just has to abide by the new stricter rules.

NBA is more than what just the players feel like doing. Part of the fun is being able to acquire the best players possible for your team and city by navigating through the tight rules and regulations set in order to form your full roster. Rather than simply throwing money at all the best players' faces to come to your team. How can you ever have a sense of accomplishment when you know the star players were always gonna be on your team regardless. The Kobe era is over? No problem here comes Dwight Horward, or Chris Paul..

Tell me something, lets say you work for a big company that has many branches nationwide. After a few years, will you have the opportunity to pick which city you feel like relocating to while still continuing to work for the same company? Didnt think so. NBA players get to do that. (to a certain degree but still way more than the average joseph)

Last edited by bowdown on Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.

compare what he (and Im sure a lot of the other owners) have contributed to society through their accomplishment.

Donald Sterling deserves a monument!

compare what he (and Im sure a lot of the other owners) have contributed to society through their accomplishment.

Donald Sterling deserves a monument!

NBA players are always welcome to become businessmen after their career is over. Or maybe they will be so great at basketball that they will be in position to be an Owner of an NBA team through endorsements and business ventures...like Jordan

Tell me something, lets say you work for a big company that has many branches nationwide. After a few years, will you have the opportunity to pick which city you feel like relocating to while still continuing to work for the same company? Didnt think so. NBA players get to do that. (to a certain degree but still way more than the average joseph)

If the branch in that city is willing to hire me, I don't see why I couldn't.

Tell me something, lets say you work for a big company that has many branches nationwide. After a few years, will you have the opportunity to pick which city you feel like relocating to while still continuing to work for the same company? Didnt think so. NBA players get to do that. (to a certain degree but still way more than the average joseph)

If the branch in that city is willing to hire me, I don't see why I couldn't.

What is the chance of that happening? You are pretty much like any other person applying for the same position. Competition is too tight. Unlike NBA free agency, where if you just played on a team and were anyone near not horrible, chances are another team will sign you in for next season. My example was more suitable for the more better players in the league, who have a stronger demand but still it is a much better situation to be in for a NBA player looking for a new place than a random employee of another company whose contract just ran out.

Last edited by bowdown on Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tell me something, lets say you work for a big company that has many branches nationwide. After a few years, will you have the opportunity to pick which city you feel like relocating to while still continuing to work for the same company? Didnt think so. NBA players get to do that. (to a certain degree but still way more than the average joseph)

If the branch in that city is willing to hire me, I don't see why I couldn't.

What is the chance of that happening?

What's the chance of it happening in the NBA? Really not all that high, unless you're LeBron/Kobe/etc., and if you were the equivalent of those players in whatever 'normal' job you were working, the chances of it happening would be just as high.

Further, if you're working 9-5 you don't have to end up stuck in a city you don't even want to be in in the first place because of a draft.

That is one of the concessions of being an NBA player. Im sure the big pay and continuing to play game of basketball (along with the aforementioned many novelties) should relieve some of that misery.
And if you are competent enough of your job at all (being good at basketball) you will have atleast a few options of teams to join. Its not just the stars that enjoy choice. Its just not as varied. Which fits in with real life. If im not really good enough producer to continue to work for the company then it will be hard for me to stick around.

Much needed new rule, which I am officially dubbing 'The Carmelo Anthony Rule':

13. Trade Rules

• Extension-and-trades prohibited. If a player signs a contract extension, then the team is prohibited from trading the player for a period of six months following the date of the extension. If a team acquires a player in a trade, then the team is prohibited from signing the player to a contract extension for a period of six months following the date of the trade.

Bravo

And if you are competent enough of your job at all (being good at basketball) you will have atleast a few options of teams to join. Its not just the stars that enjoy choice. Its just not as varied. Which fits in with real life.

And yet you think it's too easy for players to choose where they want to play.

Not to mention it requires a lot more than being 'competent'. There are thousands of players who never even make the NBA that you could easily describe as being 'competent'.